range of a 1862 colt pocket.....


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black_powder_Rob
July 18, 2008, 12:47 PM
Hi there guys I just went to the range yesterday and posted a target at the 25 yrd position. I loaded my 1862 colt pocket with 15 grains of black powder ( the recomended amount from the gun dealer that sold me the gun) and a .380 lead ball. Every shot I took ended up in the dirt before it even got to the target. This leads me to ask what is the range of the colt pocket revolver? The other question I have is how can i fix this if it is not normal?

any suggestions please????

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Tomahawk674
July 18, 2008, 12:57 PM
That is VERY strange! I am a newb like no one else here, but perhaps you could check obvious things like:

How well is the barrel installed? is there some kind of massive gap between cylinder and barrel?
Are you sure you're using 15 grains of powder? what kind of powder is it?
Is the ball loose when you ram it in?

I'm sure a more experienced person will step in and offer better help.

nalioth
July 18, 2008, 01:13 PM
I think you should contact the manufacture for the instruction manual for your pistol.

Your gun dealer may have rocks in his head.

rcmodel
July 18, 2008, 01:31 PM
I would think 15 grains is a very light load. And a .380" ball is a pretty big ball!

Go here for info on Navy arms 1862.
http://www.sixguns.com/range/CBSIXGUNS2.htm

A .375" ball and 20 grains FFFG gave only 664 FPS.

25 grains FFFG gave 940 FPS.

rcmodel

Voodoochile
July 18, 2008, 01:41 PM
What I would suggest is try a 20gr. load of FFFG "or Pyrodex by volume" in it to see if it brings your POI close to youe POA, if not then try at 10-15 yards to get it grouping then once you determine which charge is best for groups then you can go out to 25 yards & using a file to lower the front sight to bring the POI to your POA at that range.

Snaggletooth
July 18, 2008, 01:48 PM
Bob, How much previous experience do you have with pistols. It could that you are pulling down at the last instant. That is why I asked that question.

Omnivore
July 18, 2008, 06:55 PM
Snag: Yes, I took a newb handgun shooting once. She was hitting the ground halfway between her position and the 10 yard target. It wasn't the gun's fault. She'd get the sights on the target, then slowly lower her arms in anticipation of the recoil. We all do the same thing to some degree, it's just that an experienced shooter knows about it and keeps it to a bare minimum.

PB Bob: Even a fairly light load shouldn't put your POI that far off (what, several feet?) at a mere 25 yards. We're talking about a time-of-flight difference of a few milliseconds. Often a lighter load than the one a handgun was "regulated" for will cause your POI to be high at close to medium range. The ball spends more time in the barrel as the gun recoils.

Then again, there is a minimum amount of energy required to overcome friction and push the ball out the barrel. Sometimes the wrong load can result in a ball sticking in the bore, but you usually hear of that happening with jacketed bullets in a .38 S&W or something. If you're just above that energy level, the balls could be dumping out at hand-thrown velocity. I think that is extremely unlikely however. 15 grains isn't all that tiny.

Assuming the gun is in proper condition and properly assembled, and assuming you are an experienced shooter, it sounds like a sight adjustment issue. Can't tell any more without seeing it and firing it. Inspect the gun muzzle to butt. A lot of crazy things can go wrong, but for it to work properly, everything has to go just exactly right all at once.

mykeal
July 18, 2008, 08:25 PM
For an 1862 Pocket Police 15 gr is NOT a 'very light load'; in fact, it's the most accurate load in my Uberti 1862.

It is very likely the problem is recoil anticipation. I have the following suggestions:

1) shoot two full cylinders at a distance of 5-7 yards at a large target, preferably one of the IDPA or PCC human silhouettes. Use the center of mass bull ring for the POA. If your groups are larger than 3" the problem is not the gun. If you do get good tight groups with a POI substantially away from the POA come back here and tell us how much and in what direction.

2) An alternative is to shoot from a bench pistol rest, again at a large target, again with the center of mass POA, and again, the point is to find out whether the gun will shoot a tight group, and if so, where that group is.

I need to mention that you may not have been hitting short of the target. If you were using a lubed felt wad it may have been the wad that was impacting short while the ball actually went over the target. I've seen that happen many times with people who are new to shooting the small frame Colts. You might have someone stand behind you and well to the side to see if there's an impact in the berm behind the target.

black_powder_Rob
July 18, 2008, 08:28 PM
Thank you everyone for your input and thank you rcmodel for the site. Snaggletooth I have been shooting pistols for a while now and I even have a CHL.
I have inspected the barrel and noticed that at the bottom of the barrel at the very end of the muzzle there is a slight lip (it is no thicker than a piece of lead for a lead pencil) between the rifle grooves:fire:.
I am going to assume that this could be the cause.
I plan on taking it out again soon and trying a 20 grain load and make sure that I have the ball seated well. well see what happens.

black_powder_Rob
July 18, 2008, 08:31 PM
"I need to mention that you may not have been hitting short of the target. If you were using a lubed felt wad it may have been the wad that was impacting short while the ball actually went over the target. I've seen that happen many times with people who are new to shooting the small frame Colts. You might have someone stand behind you and well to the side to see if there's an impact in the berm behind the target."


I never thought about that I will have to try and see next time at the range. Thanks again everyone.

scrat
July 18, 2008, 08:59 PM
hey welcome aboard black powder rob

Snaggletooth
July 18, 2008, 11:56 PM
Rob, I wasnt trying to put you down. Ive seen new shooters anticipate and pull down hard on the trigger.. I got some bad propellant one time and it sounded like a roman candle and went fifteen to twenty yards. I was using a black powder substitute. It was not a good day. Enjoy your pistol and its always easy to relax while shooting bp.

black_powder_Rob
July 20, 2008, 03:27 PM
Thanks scrat and snaggletooth no offense taken just letting the qualifications be known. this is just the first black powder gun i have ever fired. Hopefully the colt 1860 army I am asking for fer Christmas wont give me as much trouble.

P.S. does anyone else find this addicting?

Snaggletooth
July 20, 2008, 09:37 PM
I"M sure you will really like the 1860. I have one that I carry alot. Ir is a good 'point and shoot' at rolling cans etc.

PRM
July 26, 2008, 11:12 PM
I agree with mykeal, 15 grains is a standard load for the .36 Colt Pocket Models. Mine is a 2nd Generation. I use 17 grains with a .376 ball. Wonder wads between the powder and ball. On my Colts - I get a nice ring of lead shaved when loading.

I consistently get around a 3 inch spread on my groups at 12-15 yards. As with all open top Colts and their clones impact is around 4-5 inches above point of aim. Once you get used to it - no problem. I have taken rabbits (stationary target) at those distances.

phillyriverrat57
August 2, 2009, 10:40 AM
i have a origional colt pocket navy i still shoot. i can acheave groups of 2 inches at 25 yards, then again the gun had been well broken in after 147 years. i use a tight ball from an older ball mold, it will actually cut a small led ring off when pressed into the cylinder. i have seen guns where loose fitting balls will not do much causing balls to fall short. anyonew who shoots a black owder gun knows it is a art in itself. lead density( softer is better in these guns) different brands of black powder, and of course the gopher shooters( pushing the gun down in anticipation of the recoil. i like to bench rest a gun when trying out new loads, to see how my loads are doing and how my gun is shooting

coltdoctor
August 2, 2009, 11:30 AM
Howdy Rob,

Just a guess but are you sure you're shooting the right powder? If you were to load your Colt with FFG the result would be what you described. Are you using fffg?

Shoot Straight,

MW

messerist
August 2, 2009, 08:21 PM
May we all fire our smokewagons for Bob! Welcome to the addiction. It is incurable so just go with it!:D

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