Remington 1858 vs Rogers & Spencer


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Tomahawk674
July 18, 2008, 02:00 PM
Hey guys, IF I decide to get a .44, how would those two compare? As I see it:

The '58 has more historical value
The R&S was the "latest" development in BP design of the day
They perform the same (?)
The replica prices seem to be very close

One thing I don't like about the R&S is that the loading lever rachet looks kind of fraile, at least from the pictures...

I won't worry too much about it cause one day, I'll probably own them both. (Not now though, can NOT afford it).

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sundance44s
July 18, 2008, 02:36 PM
Funny this should come up ..as you all know ..I love my 1858 Remingtons ..but I do have a large collection of Revolver type cap and ball Pistols ..some bought for compairison to my favorite Remmies ..Turns out last month I bought a slightly used EuroArms made / Rogers & Spencer . So for the last 2 weeks I`ve been running compairison test against the Remmies .here`s what i find ........
Let me say right off hand ..all my test shooting was done from a rest at 15 yards ...with 30 grs of Goex 3f under a .454 ball in the Remmie ...457 ball in the Rogers & Spencer , The bore Dia . is 2 Thousands larger on my R&S compaired to the Pietta Remmie I was useing ...So the R&S shot tighter groups with the larger ball .
The R&S shoots as tight a group as my 1858 Remmie but ..The R&S shoots 1 inch high and 3 inches left at 15 yards ....The Remmie shoots POA all shots smothering the quarter size bulls eye . I did file down the front sight on the Remmie to get this POA ...but thats all , windage was right on out of the box ..as has been the case with all the Pietta Remingtons I have . Not much I can do about the eleavation and windage problems of this Rogers & Spencer except cut a dovetail front sight on it , and install a Uberti Remmie front sight ...which I have an extra and it would be right for a sure fix .This way the windage problem could be fixed as easy as tapping the sight to the left and the slight eleavation problem could be fixed with a file down. Then I would say this R&S will shoot against my Remingtons with out a problem ..
I spent 2 days on the R&S timming and slicking up the innards just like I`ve done on all my Remmies , I was expecting a great shooter , and I won`t stop untill it gets there .
If some one else has had better luck with their R&S ...I`d sure like to hear it ...I know alot of folks that own a R&S and claim they are great shooters , but they don`t shoot them ...so it`s all hear say to me ...
I want to hear Quarter size groups at 15 yards , with aiming right on POA ..not useing KY windage ..Well now I know , I no longer have a want for a R&S , I`ll scratch it off my bucket list .

flibuste
July 18, 2008, 03:16 PM
hello

One main difference between both is the shape of the grip and hence the comfort for you to shoot with it.

It depends on the size of your hand and the only way is to test it and shoot with it. Personally, the grip of the RS is unfortunately very uncomfortable for me because the grip is flare at the bottom and that does not fit my hand (I have large hands).

That is why, although this gun is very efficient, some (like me unless I can fit modified grips) do not appreciate shooting with RS.

Better have a try before

Regards

ArmedBear
July 18, 2008, 03:25 PM
The R&S grips fit me fine, and the R&S is a very durable design that functions well and is easier to cap. While the Ruger Old Army looks more like a Remmie with Colt grips, when you look closely, you see R&S inspiration in the functional design.

That said, IMHO the Remington points a lot better and feels more natural to me.

I have both.

sundance44s
July 18, 2008, 04:11 PM
I forgot to mention fit and function of my R&S..It`s a large grip frame for sure ...fits my large hands perfect , The cylinder pin is a little hard to pull out because of the dubble side slot head screws , if it isn`t lined up on the inner notch in this screw , it can be hard to get the cylinder pin out . The hammer spring on my Euro R&S is as stiff as the leaf spring on an early Chevy truck ..it could be lightened , but there is no adjusting screw like on the 1858 Remmie , it would take some fileing grinding and such to thin it somewhat ...other wise it takes 2 thumbs to cock it .
I find it fits nice in a CA. Slim Jim Holster I have ..Something I was wondering about because of it bulky shape . The capping recesses are opened up from the factory on the R&S and makes capping the nipples much easyer than a stock Remmie cylinder ( I have mine all opened up like the R&S on my Remmies ) .

mykeal
July 18, 2008, 10:03 PM
Sundance - good comparison.

I do not have a .44 Remington any more; my only one is a .36, so I can't really provide side by side comparison. My .36 is a Pietta, however, so the grip frame is the same size as the .44. On that topic the R&S is more comfortable, and as a result, to my mind, a better 'pointing' gun. But that's a very subjective thing and you simply must try both frames to get a 'feel' for it.

As to accuracy, I rarely shoot any pistols from a rest any more, but 2" groups at 25 yards, standing 2 hand hold, are possible with the R&S. I can also shoot that well with the Remington, but not as often nor as easily - again, that feel factor.

Both the Pietta Remington and Euroarms (actually, Armi San Paolo) have been with me a long time (25+ years). Both required some 'clean up' of the action to get to a point I was comfortable with. I can't honestly say one took more than the other - that was a long time ago.

Personally, the R&S competes with my Ruger Old Army for favorite toy lately. I have to admit that changes, however. Any given gun is rarely the favorite for a long time.

I have no useful advice as to which is 'better' for you. I think the R&S and Remington compete very well and the choice becomes a personal one. The good news is that you can't go far wrong with either.

Mike OTDP
July 18, 2008, 10:25 PM
Both basic designs are good. The Remington detail-strips much easier. Most top competitors use Remingtons because you can see the sights with the hammer down (some repros can't do this, but it works fine with an original)...which means that follow-through is easier.

Tomahawk674
July 18, 2008, 10:26 PM
The better news is I just sold one toy of mine that could get me a '58 AND R&S.

On the other side of the spectrum, I think that .31 Rmington pocket would be a hoot too...

Omnivore
July 19, 2008, 12:31 AM
Some people will tell you that the Colts handle and point a little better than just about any of them. I don't have an R&S, but I do have a '51 Colt Knockoff and a '58 Remmie, both Pietta's and both in .44. I personally prefer the feel of the Colts, with the Rem being close behind (and heavier).

There are pros and cons to each. And yes, the Pietta '58 Rem hit impressively close to point of aim right out of the box, at about 7 yards, and it does fine at 25.

Tomahawk674
July 19, 2008, 12:44 AM
I live in St. Joseph MO (Not too far north of Kansas City).

As far as I know, there is no place around here that stocks BP replicas for me to look at; therefore I must rely on pictures and people's opinions to make a decission on what to buy. I have small hands, therefore I assume the R&S will probably be a bit big for me, but I won't know until I buy one. So far my new Uberti '61 navy feels and fits great.

PS: Seems the Cabela's in KC Kansas doesn't stock any BP replicas, although they have all the supplies. Is that odd?

sharps59
July 19, 2008, 11:39 AM
have one Remington one original colt and two R & S.
my son at 15 was small for his age the R & S fitted his hand
the R & S accomindates all hand sizes.
one R & S & the Remie had the barrel bent by a gunsmith for my point of aim the the other R & s was dovetailed w/ a tail blade that was trimed as needed
like both keep the remie as a spare We shoot both R & S in N-SSA comp.
18.5 of 3ffg for 25 yrd and 25 of fff for 50 yrd. same poa. uses both RB and conical w/the same load and grouping:banghead:

unspellable
July 19, 2008, 04:09 PM
The R&S loading lever setup is NOT delicate in any way. The Remington loading lever setup is much handier for cylinder removal.

Main spring strength and shooting a little off one way or the other is probably a matter of individual vairation in either type.

The R&S has a reputation for great accuracy. Not that the Remington won't produce decent accuracy. My R&S will not produce accuracy with lite loads. If I stop being stingy with the powder it will shoot where I point it. It has a light trigger with no creep, but I bought it used and have not taken it apart to see if it has had a trigger job. My Remington also has a good trigger, but that's after I did a trigger job on it.

mykeal
July 19, 2008, 08:52 PM
If the '61 Navy grip fits you well then the Remington will be more comfortable than the R&S. The R&S is a big gun, no question about it. While I can see how it can be said to accommodate all hand sizes I don't believe it can do so well.

BTW, Cabelas stocks black powder supplies for the in-line trade, which I'm sure they carry in that store. Some of Cabelas department managers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and will order/stock black powder supplies without regard for whether they apply to inlines or c&b revolvers, thinking they're all the same. In general, however, Cabelas is a fine outlet. They do a good job the majority of the time.

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