I need honest input about EAA Witness


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floydster
July 19, 2008, 08:12 PM
I am looking at a full size Witness in Super 38 cal. ( which I want)in Wonder finish.
Now,I don't want input from someone who doesn't know what they are talking about-like,well I heard kind of crap.
If you have experience with EAA, that is what I need, good, bad, ugly.
I am not a dink, just looking for the honest truth.
Thanks, Floydster

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Eric F
July 19, 2008, 08:23 PM
Well I dont really know but........Well I kinda heard that they are ok


Alright you asked for it. I have been looking for an alternate 38 super other than a 1911. As it turns out I know a local gun smith/competition shooter/ instructor that has a 38 super eaa. He let me come out and give it a run. It was not modified when I shot it the trigger was a bit heavier than the triggers I am use to but it shot well recoil was well managed. The only complaint I have is no decocker and the safety is less than manageable. I am a 1911 shooter and the safety is just diffrent. He has "externde" carry safeties available no big deal. The slide is so low profile that I could not rack the slide real easily but I have big hands and I feel this can be over come with practice. thats about all I have to say about that.

p85
July 19, 2008, 08:26 PM
I own the wonder finish witness in 10mm. I am quite pleased with the pistol. I like how the pistol fits my hand. I tried the Glocks in 10 mm and wasn't comfortable with the grips. For the price, you cant beat it.

floydster
July 19, 2008, 08:31 PM
Humm, Eric, I have a CZ 75 B and a CZ PCR with the de- cocker, woundn't the saftey be the same as the 75 B.
Thanks,Floydster

SureThing
July 19, 2008, 08:38 PM
I researched it myself. I hear they are ok guns. Just customer service is lacking.

R.W.Dale
July 19, 2008, 08:38 PM
Humm, Eric, I have a CZ 75 B and a CZ PCR with the de- cocker, woundn't the saftey be the same as the 75 B.
Thanks,Floydster

No there is no decocker on a witness.


I have a wonder finish compact 10mm. Thus far me and the previous owner have been quite pleased. Some mods I've done are a heavier recoil spring and an ejector shortening.

shooter1
July 19, 2008, 08:49 PM
Well, I heard they were ok, so-------I bought one with the wonder finish chambered in 10mm. The pistol was totally under sprung. Empties were launched into low earth orbit! An order was placed to Wolff Gunsprings and a calibration spring kit was at my door in a couple of days. I found the 22# recoil spring to be about right to control the slide velocity. I shortened the ejector about .090" and installed the extra power firing pin spring. At that point I was satisified with the operation of the pistol. Accuracy was good and function was flawless. I loved the ergonomics so well that I now have the same pistol in 9mm and .45! I shoot 1911s a lot and found the safety to be difficult to operate without changing my grip. I couldn't find an extended one at that time, so---------I got out the "JB Weld" and modified mine to make it easier to disengage on the draw. Great pistol, easily worth more than you'll pay for one!
str1

floydster
July 19, 2008, 08:53 PM
The 75 B has no de-cocker like my PCR, it has an ambi safety, however you can let the hammer down in the safe position (half cocked) with a live round in the pipe being it is a DA/SA.
Thanks, Floydster

schmeky
July 19, 2008, 09:02 PM
Floyd,

I have one in .45. I think they are great guns for the money. I have had problems with the stock magazine spring after only about 200 rounds. Ordered a new one from Hennings.

Had to jack the rear sight way up to shoot to POA, and the hammer mainspring is tiny, making for a DA that stacks significantly as you reach hammer fall, but I rarely shoot DA.

I don't like the sheet metal roll pin the hammer rides on, but that's a personal thing.

You could do worse.

eerw
July 19, 2008, 09:19 PM
Couple of people really like them..think it depends on which model you get..the Match, the Elite or the plain Witness.

Eric F
July 19, 2008, 09:19 PM
Humm, Eric, I have a CZ 75 B and a CZ PCR with the de- cocker, woundn't the saftey be the same as the 75 B.
Thanks,Floydster They do make models with a decocker and models that are sa only. But as a standard its a da/sa with no decocker. Ok I may be wrong it might be a Tanfolio that has the decocker.

wingman
July 19, 2008, 09:26 PM
I have an elite match 45acp,super accurate,very little recoil,feeds 230grs RN does not like my 2ooswc reloads. Grip is like that of the cz75B and I use Hogue cz75b rubber grips on it.

I will tell you I'm not a big fan of EAA however I took a chance with the Match because I like the feel of it, I will also add if it needed work rather then return to factory I would find a good smith.

Thats my opinion hope it helps.

atblis
July 19, 2008, 09:29 PM
Extremely amusing and pleasant pistol shoot. The 10mm and 38SA versions are my two favorite autoloader pistols.

Quality wise, I think they are a bit unrefined. The slide to frame fit is generally very sloppy. Tanfoglio has some QC issues, and they tend to kick out the odd lemon way more than any of the reputable companies. I think a big part of the problem is EAA. I would guess EAA basically doesn't care what Tanfoglio ships them.

I've had very bad experiences with EAA customer service.
In my experience they are one of the following
a) completely unresponsive (best response actually from them)
b) belligerent, condescending and or accusatory
c) spectacularly incompetent.

That being said, buy them cheap. Used, I would pay <$300. $250 is about right IMO.

The 10 round mags are worthless. They split in half. Don't consider them worth anything in any deal you make.

Despite EAAs best efforts, I still have and shoot Witnesses. I've gone more towards CZs, but unfortunately CZ does not make a 10mm or 38SA.

SureThing
July 19, 2008, 09:29 PM
I have heard great things about the Elite Match

floydster
July 20, 2008, 04:21 PM
Thanks guys for all the input.
Floyd

wally
July 20, 2008, 06:26 PM
I basically like the Witness pistols, but there can be some problems in 9mm & .40S&W from the short rounds in the long magazines. EAA is now supplying mags with a "spacer" in front which helps somewhat.

In .45ACP .38Super I don't think you can go wrong. If can find one the Elite Match is the best buy -- way better gun over the standard than its modest ~$100 price premium might suggest, but the standard model is good if you might someday what to buy a spare upper in say 9mm, .45, or 10mm and have one frame with multi-caliber conversions.

--wally.

SureThing
July 20, 2008, 06:27 PM
I forgot that EAA uses the same exact platform from .45 to 9mm. So that is one heck of a grip for just a 9mm.

Peter M. Eick
July 20, 2008, 06:35 PM
I bought a very early witness 10mm when they came out. It was so early that I even talked to the Tanfolgio president who happened to be at EAA when I called to complain about how long it was taking to get my gun made.

It worked, and worked and worked. I then got bored with it and decided that I should see how much it could take. (It only costs $285 with 5 mags so who cares). I started loading hotter and hotter ammo. Still no problems.

I then got bored with that and relegated it to my truck gun where it rode for years. Every time I pulled it out it would fire.

In the end I sold it to my boss who now shoots it still.

Great gun. Never did anything to it but replace springs, 10 rnd wire cut mags and feed ammo into it.

wally
July 20, 2008, 06:46 PM
I forgot that EAA uses the same exact platform from .45 to 9mm. So that is one heck of a grip for just a 9mm.

Comparing the EAA .45 to the CZ75 is about as shocking as holding an XD45 after first picking up an XD40 -- how'd they cram that big round in there?

So while it is larger, its not objectionable like say a Glock 21 or CZ97, and you do get 18+1 rounds in 9mm or .38Super for the extra size compared to the CZ75 9mm 16+1.

--wally.

sqlbullet
July 21, 2008, 11:43 AM
I have both a standard Witness in 10mm and an Elite Match 10mm. Both have been great shooters for me.

The Elite Match is easily worth the extra $100. Much better fit and finish, tighter lockup, better shooter. The standard Witness needed a fluff and buff and Wolff springs before it was 100% reliable. The Match has been 100% since day one.

Both my guns have the older 'square' profice slides. I have read many who have slide cracking issues with the new 'round' profile slides in 10mm. Not sure the same would be true for 38 super.

IdahoLT1
July 21, 2008, 09:27 PM
Ive had jamming problems with my Match 10mm using medium range reloads and factory ammo. Its seen ~400rds (~200 on the 22lb spring) right now, so i think if there was any break in period, it might be close. I heard of some problems with the wonder finish models so i figured the match model should be a higher quality and reduce my chances of problems. Ive bought and installed different # springs and installed a Sprinco recoil reducer. These helped but the rounds were still jamming on top of the chamber. I ordered some +5% mag springs and these helped cut the jams down. It only jams on the last 2-3 rounds of the mag. It also does not like hollow points at all. They always hit dead center on the feed ramp. I will order a couple new mags and if that doesnt help, its off to EAA or to someone who wants to tincker with it. Right now, its not reliable enough for me to consider using as a hiking/hunting/back packing pistol.

Everything else about the gun, i like. I think i was unfortunate enough to get a lemon. Its just getting expensive tinkering with it. Im close to the purchase cost of a used Colt Delta Elite after all the things i have bought for it.

So for anyone interested in EAA firearms, the way i look at it is, if you want to buy one, dont be suprised if you see problems. If it functions 100%, great, it will be an awesome pistol and will last a long time. But youre bound to run into more problems with them then say a bigger manufacturer like Glock, SIG, Springfield etc.

wally
July 21, 2008, 09:35 PM
I've had to work on virtually all my EAA Witness 9mm, .40S&W and 10mm mags. Its why I only really recommend the Witness in .45ACP.

Use the search I posted what I did to fix the mags on my Witness 10mm. Sounds like you have the same problem I have, although didn't matter for me if it was FMJ or JHP.

I used the strongest mag springs I could get from Wolff and the 20 lb recoil spring, the 22 lb spring out runs the mag springs unless Wolff has introduced +20% recently.

--wally.

StephenT
July 21, 2008, 09:43 PM
Based on all the positive reviews, I placed an order for an EAA Witness Match Elite in 45ACP with Bud's today. Their website's "wish list" feature is handy, and I received an email notifying me that the gun was in stock again for $479, so I jumped. I have high hopes for this gun; from all indications, it's great value for the money.

wingman
July 21, 2008, 10:05 PM
Took my Elite match 45acp to the range today fired 50 rounds at 20 yards
(230gr reloads) excellent accuracy no failures.

One thing to remember most auto's prefer certain type bullets and many
require a ramp polishing to fire other then hardball. This applies to all
makes/models.

hags
July 22, 2008, 11:23 AM
Quality wise, I think they are a bit unrefined. The slide to frame fit is generally very sloppy. Tanfoglio has some QC issues, and they tend to kick out the odd lemon way more than any of the reputable companies. I think a big part of the problem is EAA. I would guess EAA basically doesn't care what Tanfoglio ships them.

Huh? Maybe on the lower Witness line, I don't sell them, but from the Witness Elite line on up they are some of the better made firearms I have sold.
Tanfoglio has a worldwide reputation for making quality firearms.

Gaze upon this..........

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/hagst3/CZ/71908006.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/hagst3/CZ/71908007.jpg

atblis
July 22, 2008, 12:16 PM
Huh? Maybe on the lower Witness line
I am looking at a full size Witness in Super 38 cal. ( which I want)in Wonder finish.
It appears that is what the OP asked about.

Tanfoglio has a worldwide reputation for making quality firearms.
Unfortunately not in this country. I am not saying that Tanfoglio doesn't make some worldclass guns, just that they don't enjoy that reputation here. Those who are familiar with them know this, but in general... That's mostly EAA's fault, but I'd say Tanfolgio has some culpability in the situation.

hags
July 22, 2008, 01:08 PM
Quote:
I am looking at a full size Witness in Super 38 cal. ( which I want)in Wonder finish.

It appears that is what the OP asked about.

Ok, missed that, my bad.

hags
Tanfoglio has a worldwide reputation for making quality firearms.

atblis
Those who are familiar with them know this,

Well, that's contrary to what you stated earlier in this thread, which is what I was commenting on.

mainmech48
July 22, 2008, 01:19 PM
Never had a .38 Super, but I've had my Wonderfinish full-sized 9x19 for about 14 years and can give you the skinny on it.

I bought it LNIB with 2 full-cap mags for about $225. It's run flawlessly with everything but some gun show "remanufactured" lead stuff that I foolishly bought because it looked pretty and was cheap. FWIW, the same stuff wouldn't run either of my other 2 9x19s reliably either.

I've gone through something on the close order of 8.5K of assorted rounds in it. Aside from routine spring replacements at about the 5K mark it's still 'stock'. Nothing's broken or worn out, the finish has held up extraordinarily well and it still shoots where I point it and groups as well as I can hold it for.

It shows some minor wear on the part of the barrel's chamber visible through the ejection port and the leading edges of the locking lugs, but the rails of the slide and frame and the other contact areas underneath look as if they've just been lightly polished.

I've read a lot of whining and trash talk about Tanfoglio's pistols, but I haven't actually seen any of the 'issues' demonstrated in my presence. Given my personal experiences with my one example, I tend to look at many of the negative anecdotal generalizations skeptically.

surveyor
July 22, 2008, 01:33 PM
I've got 2, one a standard steel wonderfinish, the other a match, both are in .45
they get used and enjoyed.

on the standard I put a adjustable LPA rear sight on it, and changed the trigger out to a single action. it shoots POA, and is confortable, no problems in over 1K rds either 230 ball or 185 JHP. I havent shot any 200 swc in it yet,

the trigger was changed only after getting the match, since I liked that one so well. no problems with the mags, & the mecgar mags.

The match has a tighter slide fit, and the only thing I've done to it is put a fiber optic front sight in it. I have about 500 rds through it, and when my wife goes to the range with me, she shoots it. I only had 1 problem with it, and I attribute it more to pilot error. the mag release is longer and if you bump it with your grip the mag drops out, and does not feed. it only happened once.

I did notice that the older one of the older witness mags I had does not want to lock in as well as the mag that came with it, or the mecgars..

so it is a little more finicky in that regard.
the trigger is a bit more smoother on the match, than the standard, with less travel. that's one of the reasons I changed it.

as far as what I think would be ideal, would be a standard in wonder finish with a single action trigger, dovetailed front sight, and adjustable rear sight.

also as far as the saftey, it seems a little more positive as far as locking the hammer from moving on the standards than on the matches.. you can put the saftey on and pull the trigger on the match and the hammer will move a little, not so on the standard.

while I see grumblings about poor customer service on the net, I haven't had to use any.

there is more info on these at http://henningshootsguns.com

and the CZ forum in the clone club.

JeepGeek
July 22, 2008, 05:26 PM
have a FS steel 10mm in Wonder, and a FS poly in 9mm blue. Very happy with both, they're tack drivers.

mpmarty
July 22, 2008, 06:18 PM
Let's see, I've got a full size wonder finish 10mm, a compact all steel wonder finish 10mm, a Witness Match in 40 S&W with a 10mm barrel bought from EAA for a very reasonable price and delivered in three days. They are all tack driving accurate and once I properly fitted the 10mm barrel in the match gun they never failed in any way with cast reloads, cor-bon, 200gr Speer fmjs at 1215fps. The fit and finish on the match is unbelievable. The standard full size and compact are well done also but not as highly polished and fitted. As the .40 and 10mm are the same diameter I use the same ten magazines for all three pistols. The only "bad" Tanfoglio guns I've ever heard of were the early polymer pistols they had made where Tanfoglio made the uppers, barrels and recoil assemblies but had someone in Austria cast the polymer lowers and they were junk. Not unusual in todays European Common Market. The quality stays home while the buyers travel looking for bargains.:banghead:

neviander
July 22, 2008, 10:07 PM
The slide is so low profile that I could not rack the slide real easily
I found that a little cumbersome at first as well. I have the Elite Match in .45. So far I love it, it's plenty accurate and hasn't had any failures...plus it's pretty :o

Don357
July 22, 2008, 11:10 PM
I have a Witness Poly Compact .45acp. Shoots like a dream. I had some minor feeding problems but they were corrected by polishing the feed ramp. I read somewhere that the early 10mm's had some major feeeding problems due to a flaw in the magazine follower. Tanfoglio corrected that and supposedly no more problems now. Mine also shoots low and I plan to change the sight to an adjustable style, but I'm in no hurry since I got mine figured out. The barrels and slides can be interchanged to change calibers, which is a really nice feature. Check out www.savvysurvivor.com, for more info and a few gunsmithing tips.

atblis
July 22, 2008, 11:49 PM
Just to possibly save someone some confusion, Savvysurvivor is no longer in business.

Galen
July 27, 2008, 03:23 AM
I have a fairly early 10mm plane Witness. Love it. It works.

hemiram
July 29, 2008, 01:16 AM
I have a .45 fullsized Witness in the wonder finish. The slide fit is very good, no real slop, just a tiny amount of movement with about 1500 rounds through it. A friend liked mine so much, he bought a .45, then a 9mm, and just last week, a .40, all fullsized. All shoot perfectly, and he loves them. He also has a CZ 97B, and while it looks much prettier than the .45 Witness, it's not a better shooter.

Jiml3
July 29, 2008, 11:43 AM
I had noticed a crack in the slide and contacted EAA. Since the pistol was imported by the previous importer, then refused to supply me with a replacement or any support. They said they only support what they sell. I contacted the owner in Italy to complain and he said there was nothing he could do. I really liked the gun but I would never buy anything again from Tanfoglia. Since then, I have been a very satisfied customer of
CZ-USA.

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