Those 1911 pistols...


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Corner Pocket
July 19, 2008, 10:07 PM
I have heard several people speak of how much they enjoy shooting 1911's. Does the term "1911" automatically mean that the gun is chambered in .45, or do others calibers come in that same style? Thanks!

Corner Pocket

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Technosavant
July 19, 2008, 10:10 PM
Other calibers come in that same style, but they are nowhere near as plentiful as the .45acp. There's some 9mm and 10mm 1911s, and I think even some .40S&W ones. .38 Super is also a popular caliber for some, and there's a few .22LR top ends that can be installed.

There's a continual ongoing debate about what makes a 1911- some consider nothing but original government property guns "true" 1911s, others allow anything and everything up to and including the double action Paras, and everything in between.

jr_roosa
July 19, 2008, 10:18 PM
I think that the enjoyment comes from three things...at least for me:

1. The single action trigger is fairly cripsp, even the gritty GI ones are OK.

2. The pistol seems to have a relatively long action that spreads the recoil out over a long time. My .357 feels like somebody hit the barrel with a bat, my 1911 feels like somebody is pushing the front with his hand.

3. The grip is narrow and straight and feels "right" in my medium-sized hand.

It's just a fun gun to shoot.

Get one and try it yourself.

-J.

steelyblue
July 19, 2008, 10:25 PM
A 1911 in 9mm is almost like shooting a 22. Your follow up shots are quick. That coupled with that sweeeeet single action trigger makes for a great shooting experience.

Eric F
July 19, 2008, 10:47 PM
ah yess the 1911. I think it has been chambered in about 37 diffrent calibers IIRC. There are single stack and wide body double stacks wilson mand a medium width double stack. The triggers as noted are great and they are easy to tinker with. There are polly steel and alloy guns too.

SaxonPig
July 19, 2008, 10:48 PM
The "true" 1911 is John Browning's original design. Many guns looks like the 1911 with design differences (like a different ejector on some models).

Calibers are varied including a few oddball European numbers for consumers in countries where military calibers like the 9mm and 45 ACP (Auto Colt Pistol before you ask) are banned for civilians.

mljdeckard
July 19, 2008, 10:53 PM
I read one article about someone who wildcatted a .45 casing to a .22 caliber bullet in a 1911, for the ultimate rat gun. I have a .22 conversion kit, and I'm going to get a .400 Corbon barrel. (A .45 ACP casing necked down to a .40.)

mtngunr
July 19, 2008, 10:59 PM
Actually, as noted above, sorta, it's a misuse of the term....first came the Model of 1911 US Army, which looks something like this....
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff49/mtngunr/Alfs1911-2.jpg
Then came the 1911A1, both in .45ACP.
Later came even more variations on the theme, along with new names, which hardly anyone uses. A more accurate term might be "1911-type pistol". Even the above photo isn't a true 1911, just a reasonable modern facsimile, with a few inaccuracies spotted easily by folks who know what a 1911 truly is. But I still call it my 1911, and if a Kimber, Brown, Springfield, etc owner wants to call their's a 1911, who am I to argue?

mljdeckard
July 19, 2008, 11:25 PM
That's a good point, most (all that I know of) modern 1911s are actually built on 1911A1 style frames, with the extra comfort cut behind the trigger on the frame, but most of them DON'T have other A1 features such as an arched MSH.

Frog48
July 20, 2008, 02:19 AM
Its hard to nail down what exactly "is" or "is not" a 1911.

In my personal opinion, the double action and/or hi-cap models are 1911 lookalikes, not "real" 1911s. I'm sure there are people that would disagree, but its all good.

Eric F
July 20, 2008, 05:27 AM
And as you can see there are as many opinions about 1911's as there have been models and caliber combinations. Pureist to "make the 1911 into a rifle" type folks. And everything in between.

Drgong
July 20, 2008, 11:17 AM
Depends on who you talk to, as the others pointed out.

The easy way to answer your question is that there are 1911 style handguns in a number of other calibers. They are great fun, and my first handgun purchase is the related Browning Hi Power (9mm)

1911Tuner
July 20, 2008, 11:44 AM
Nit-Pick time on the ol' forum again...

Technically, there hasn't been a 1911 manufactured since 1919, and there hasn't been a 1911A1 since 1945. Technically speaking, in order for it to be correctly called a 1911 OR a 1911A1, it must be a military contract pistol. Commercial models..even Colts...are not 1911s

Technically, the pistol must be full-sized with a 5-inch barrel/slide assembly, and in caliber .45 ACP...in order to qualify for true 1911/1911A1 status. Anything else is a variant.

Colt Commanders and Combat Commanders are not 1911s. They are 1911A1 variants. The same applies to pistols chambered for any round other than the .45 ACP.

CHEVELLE427
July 20, 2008, 12:17 PM
MY FIRST GUN I BOUGHT WAS A 1911-A1 45ACP.

now i have many other guns but this one is still a favorite as is the 45acp ROUND

SaxonPig
July 20, 2008, 12:26 PM
I consider the A1 to simply be minor cosmetic improvements so to me it's still a true 1911.

I refer to the Star pistols, or the newer S&W "1911" with external ejectors, etc. as not being true 1911s.

Walkalong
July 20, 2008, 12:28 PM
I agree with Tuner, but most folks, including myself, call all the "variations" 1911's, as long as they are close to the real McCoy. I have several "variations" that I enjoy shooting a great deal. Mostly .45, but a couple of .38 Supers. I had a 9MM, and need to get another one to replace it. I do have an EMP in 9MM, but that is too much of a change for me to call it a 1911. When you chop out a piece in the middle of the frame, it just can't be a 1911 anymore. :uhoh:

CHEVELLE427
July 20, 2008, 12:33 PM
I consider the A1 to simply be minor cosmetic improvements so to me it's still a true 1911.




whats up doc

ugaarguy
July 20, 2008, 01:33 PM
Technically, there hasn't been a 1911 manufactured since 1919, and there hasn't been a 1911A1 since 1945. Technically speaking, in order for it to be correctly called a 1911 OR a 1911A1, it must be a military contract pistol. Commercial models..even Colts...are not 1911s
Where do the Kimbers purchased by the MEUs fit into that Tuner?

1911Tuner
July 20, 2008, 01:37 PM
Where do the Kimbers purchased by the MEUs fit into that Tuner?

If they were made under contract, and stamped United States Property
with Model of 1911A1 US Army/Marine Corps...I suppose that would have to qualify them.

Funny. I didn't know that they'd contracted Kimber for those pistols. Last I heard, they were drawing on old inventories and rebuilding them for the assignments.

Frog48
July 20, 2008, 06:17 PM
Funny. I didn't know that they'd contracted Kimber for those pistols. Last I heard, they were drawing on old inventories and rebuilding them for the assignments.

Yeah, thats what they had been doing, and still are to some extent. But when the USMC decided to chop a portion of their Force Recon capability to SOCOM, their armorers couldnt refurbish old 1911's at a fast enough pace to outfit the new units. They decided to go with new-build "off the shelf" 1911's from Kimber, to fill the gap.

1911Tuner
July 20, 2008, 08:35 PM
They decided to go with new-build "off the shelf" 1911's from Kimber, to fill the gap.

Ah! I see. Thanks for the info, Grant.

So...They're not actually contract pistols built specfically for the Marines, then.

wally
July 20, 2008, 08:52 PM
As far as shooting experience goes, to me its the sliding trigger that activates the sear via sliders on both sides of the magazine that makes the 1911-style gun special. A bad 1911 trigger is still better than most any other factory trigger.

I've 1911-style guns in .45ACP, 9mm, .40S&W, & 10mm, and its very rare indeed that at least one of them doesn't come along to the range with me.

--wally.

dmazur
July 20, 2008, 09:15 PM
I resolve to use "1911 variant" to describe Commanders, Officer's Models, et al in descriptions, rather than 1911. Possibly "1911 type".

I mean, if 1911 is incorrect, it shouldn't be used.

This really doesn't seem to be any more nit-picky than suggesting "clip" and "magazine" be used correctly.

The English language is eroding fast enough. Minor applause for anyone who encourages more precise terminology.

We'll probably be trampled by the illiterate masses, but at least we tried! :)

1911Tuner
July 20, 2008, 09:25 PM
I resolve to use "1911 variant" to describe Commanders, Officer's Models, et al in descriptions,

Why not just call'em Commanders, Officer's Models, etc? ANybody who knows anything about'em knows that they're 1911 based...

ugaarguy
July 20, 2008, 11:40 PM
So...They're not actually contract pistols built specfically for the Marines, then.
Tuner the commercial Warrior and Desert Warrior exist because of the USMC contract. They wanted a commercial off the shelf pistol, but Kimber made some changes for them. At the Marines' request these pistols do not have firing pin blocks, they do not have the FLGR (they use the GI plug & short guide), they have lanyard loops on the MSH, and they ship with 7 round dimple follower hybrid feed lip mags (with bumper pads to clear the lanyard loop). The finish is KimPro, and the frames are the railed version. Of course, good capitalists that they are, Kimber is taking advantage of the USMC contract pedigree and selling the pistol commercially.

All other current Kimbers ship with flat follower 7 or 8 round mags, FLGR, and firing pin block as noted by the Roman Numeral II model name suffix. The exception is the recently released Kimber SIS, made in four variants, all spec'd without the FP block by LAPD's Special Investigative Service.

1911Tuner
July 21, 2008, 05:25 AM
the commercial Warrior and Desert Warrior exist because of the USMC contract... Kimber is taking advantage of the USMC contract pedigree and selling the pistol commercially.

Excellent! I wasn't aware of all that.
Thanks.

Eric F
July 21, 2008, 08:35 AM
1911Tuner I really respect your opinions but we are just going to have to disagree with all the 1911 terminology here. Technical word twisting and word games in general. a 1911 is a 1911 if thats what is stamped on the gun or labled as such in the paper work. For instance if my revolver was a made by Acme and was called the rocket gun then thats exactly what it is.

So to me wether its a Kimber a Daly STI, SV, RIS or any other manufacturer and its labled as a 1911 then thats what it is. I have a RIA 38 super 1911 so thast how I address it.

Word games and the like suck

1911Tuner
July 21, 2008, 08:55 AM
Uh...Eric. Lighten up a bit. It was strictly for informational purposes, and all in fun. I don't even get bent outta shape over the clip/magazine thing.

:)

Dr.Mall Ninja
July 21, 2008, 08:59 AM
did i mention 1911s are AWESOME

Eric F
July 21, 2008, 09:01 AM
Uh...Eric. Lighten up a bit. It was strictly for informational purposes, and all in fun. I don't even get bent outta shape over the clip/magazine thing.

I thought so, I didnt want to seem gruff sorry:rolleyes:

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