Paper Cartridges


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thx997303
July 21, 2008, 01:41 AM
I read the stickied paper cartridge thread, and did not see the answer to my question, so here it is.

Can you use wads in a paper cartridge? Or should you use a filler?

Thanks.

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Afy
July 21, 2008, 04:07 AM
Either or both...
I have had good experiences either way.

thx997303
July 21, 2008, 05:38 AM
What kind of filler? and did you use a cardstock disc between the powder and the wad?

I just like the ease of use, but want to do it right you know?

J.T. Gerrity
July 23, 2008, 01:02 AM
Use filler. I like to use Instant Grits, like this:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=56308&d=1176160849

This set-up is 15 grains filler over 20 grains BP. No disk is necessary; just filler over powder (BTW, I use a hollow tube rather than a dowel to make these up... easier to pour the powder and filler into the cigarette paper cartridge).

Places the ball at the front of the cylinder for increased accuracy, and allows for lighter BP charges when target shooting and/or for brass-framed pistols where a lighter load is required.

thx997303
July 23, 2008, 05:21 AM
So, how much filler should you use for say, 30 grains of BP in a .44?

sharps59
July 23, 2008, 12:40 PM
I am using the same load it seams as JT. I don't make paper cart for my 44. yet. I have premeasured loads in viles and the filler in soft plastic tubes w/ the ball pressed part way in. But for my 59 sharps I make paper cart. I use a paper disc to seperate power from filler. don't like my grits and powder getting mixed together. Not sure it matters but think it may or could change how the powder burns or incomplete burning which would effect accuracy.:banghead:

DuncanSA
July 23, 2008, 04:11 PM
Why does anyone use "fillers"?

The replica revolvers most of us use were designed for a powder load of 24 to 30 grains of black powder (more for Walkers) -so lets shoot them as they were intended to be shot.

I don't think that many troopers in the "Great Misunderstanding" of 1861 added cornmeal etc. to their charges!

straight-shooter
July 23, 2008, 04:25 PM
I use fillers to get the ball to seat consistently at the same depth in each cylinder. Some argue without the same seat depths that it will affect accuracy. I can't vouch either way but it's just the way I've always done it.

thx997303
July 23, 2008, 06:47 PM
i want to make sure it wont chainfire. Ihaven't been able to make sure my cylinders are round yet.

sharps59
July 23, 2008, 07:08 PM
your more apt to get a chain fire if a cap comes off one of your nipples.:banghead: as long as you are cuting a lead ring when loading the ball
the chamger is sealed tight. also put lube on top of it to seal it even more.
JT what are you using for a tube. may give it a try. my try your method w/ the sharps to.
right now i roll them let them dry then fill w/ powder and grits then glue the bullet on.

thx997303
July 23, 2008, 07:18 PM
Oh, now the only worry I have is the cylinder being out of round, then it may cut a ring, but it might still leave it open.

sharps59
July 23, 2008, 07:40 PM
streight shooter yea it dose at least in mine. same dept and same pressure ball flush w/ the cylinder
the balls you use need to be larger than the dia of your chambers. thus when loasing the chamber will cut a ring of lead off of the ball. when the big light its the ball it will be forced in to the forceing cone which will extrude the ball even more marking it round to fit the barrel oh on a last note the chambers need to be larger than the bore.
all my pistops have had the chambers reamed out 1} so they are larger than the bore (you don't want the ball raddling down the barrel 2] so that they are centered on the barrel when indexed. You will be suprised on how many of these guns come thru with misalignment of chamber to barrel. actual not sure if any are alingned properly. atleast every one that I know that shoots in comp. has had to have theres aligned.:banghead:

thx997303
July 23, 2008, 08:51 PM
When I load the .451 balls a ring of lead is cut, but it's 3/4 of a ring. Not a full circle.

That okay? Or should I go to the .454 balls?

mykeal
July 23, 2008, 09:34 PM
Why does anyone use "fillers"?

The replica revolvers most of us use were designed for a powder load of 24 to 30 grains of black powder (more for Walkers) -so lets shoot them as they were intended to be shot.

I don't think that many troopers in the "Great Misunderstanding" of 1861 added cornmeal etc. to their charges!

Some people like to do things exactly as they were done many years ago. Others like to load up the chambers with the max possible load and make lots of noise and smoke. Still others prefer to make the gun/shooter combination as accurate as it can be. We each have different goals and ideals. It's what makes us human.

sharps59
July 23, 2008, 09:56 PM
mykeal well said
thx you need to know what your bore is to start with. my bores turned out to be 454 my chambers were 451. now the chambers are 455 and i use a 457 ball or 456 conical. my forcing cone was also modified to 17 degrees i think[don't rememer exactly]:banghead:

Mike 56
July 23, 2008, 10:14 PM
thx997303, give .454 balls a try they are more accurate at least in my guns. As for filler i have been using grits 20gr black powder and a 9mm case full of grits for my 44cal 51 Colt and 20gr black powder and a 40cal case full of grits in my 44cal Remington. The filler helps accuracy a lot.

Mike

thx997303
July 24, 2008, 01:32 AM
I would love to know what it was, but I don't have the proper measuring tools.

Guess I'll have to ask my buddy if he has the right stuff.

Smokin_Gun
July 24, 2008, 02:40 AM
thx997303, If you have a Pietta mine anyway take .451, make .452 Lee Mold balls, I'm sure .454 would be just fine. Uberti listed and take .454 ball I mold .457 for reasons down the road, they work just fine. Euroarms, ASP recommended and take .457 balls, Colt Dragoon and Italian repros take .457 balls.
Tried Breakfast and even Puff-Lon fillers and found no need to use them...I do use Lube pills though, a combo of waxes and Oils, cut out at about 1/8" thin for .36 or .44 cal cylinders.
Hope that helps...wanna know about lube pills PM me.

SG

J.T. Gerrity
July 24, 2008, 08:24 AM
So, how much filler should you use for say, 30 grains of BP in a .44?
I Use the above mentioned cartridges in my '60 Army, brass-framed Navy .44 and the like. The grits compress a little differently than the powder, so the "35 grain" load it represents is equivalent to a 30grain load.

Why does anyone use "fillers"?
Places the ball at the front of the cylinder for increased accuracy. Allows for lighter BP charges when target shooting and/or for brass-framed pistols where a lighter load is required.

When I load the .451 balls a ring of lead is cut, but it's 3/4 of a ring. Not a full circle. That okay? Or should I go to the .454 balls?
Not okay. You're setting yourself up for a chain-fire, which can happen from either end of the cylinder and is no fun, I can tell you. Go to a larger ball (.454 or .457) and make sure you get a complete 360 degree ring.

JT what are you using for a tube.
Short plastic tube with a diameter slightly smaller than the chamber; I'm not sure what the actual dia. is as I don't have my calipers here. As there is a miniscule chance that the plastic might develop a static charge, I always spray it down with a little anti-static before I make cartridges. Still have all of my fingers.

Mike 56
July 24, 2008, 09:54 AM
Don't worry about a ball being to big if you can load it into your cylinder you have sized it and it is ok to shoot. You can shoot .451 balls safely even though they don't fit as tight as they should as long as you cover the balls with Crisco after loading even when using wads.

I use grits on top of the powder for filler. With grits as filler you need a 1/4 inch space in the cylinder for ball.

Mike

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