CZ75 Strength


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Clean97GTI
July 21, 2008, 05:59 AM
I moved into a new place recently and as many of you know, you'll go through boxes and discover things you may have forgotten about. I recently discovered a few hundred rounds of 9mm sitting in their boxes just waiting to be touched off. :evil:
So a couple days ago I was out happily shooting with my CZ75B. The thing runs like a top and I'm just enjoying the day. When I got home and the ringing in my ears finally started to fade into the background, I got to thinking.
It would be nice to have a more potent caliber in this masterpiece of ergonomics. Thats when I discovered the 9x23 Winchester. The overall length of the two seems like it might be a bit of a problem but the big question is would a CZ75B tolerate a much stronger round like the 9x23 or would it just be asking for trouble?
I know Witness and IMI seem to have no trouble with .45ACP in guns of approximately the same dimensions but CZ doesn't. I also know .45 runs at considerably lower pressure and 9x23 was originally made using cut down rifle brass.

Cliffs: Would 9x23 blow up a CZ75B if it could be made to fit?
Would it be wiser to look towards something like a Ruger P-Series originally chambered in .45 for such a conversion for safety and simplicity sake?

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Cliff47
July 21, 2008, 09:05 AM
I know of no CZ75 pistol that is chambered for 9x23, however feel free (or reasonable) to look into the .40 S&W chambered members of the line. I recently acquired a CZ40B on a GunBroker auction, and the pistol is a screamer! I got some of the .40 S&W Cz75 mags and now I can load 12 rounds into the grip of the pistol.

There might be a model from the EAA line that is chambered in the 9x23.

ZeSpectre
July 21, 2008, 10:44 AM
When I got home and the ringing in my ears finally started to fade into the background

It would be nice to have a more potent caliber in this masterpiece of ergonomics. Thats when I discovered the 9x23 Winchester

the big question is would a CZ75B tolerate a much stronger round like the 9x23 or would it just be asking for trouble?

With over 2,000 posts I have to assume that either you are having a really off day, or someone else has hacked your account since it sounds like you have been shooting without ear protection and are considering firing rounds in a gun not chambered for that round.

Neither one is exactly what one would call a great idea.

atblis
July 21, 2008, 11:32 AM
9x23 could not be made to work in a 75B simply because it is too long. Yes, the chamber could be reamed, but asides from that, how do you lengthen the entire gun about the magazine/ejection port to accommodate the round. Cut it and reweld???

9x23 is a 50k psi round. The Winchester brass is correspondingly thicker.

Just get a 38 super Witness and go to town. Mine did just fine with 9x23.

Wear safety glasses at all times!

eerw
July 21, 2008, 11:57 AM
as Atblis said.

the 9x23 is the same OAL as 38super/45ACP, so the CZ75 would not be able to physically accomodate the longer round in the magazine.
9x23 is designed as a high pressure round

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/eerw/Cool%20Stuff/Untitled-2.jpg
(left to right: 38 super, 38 supercomp, WIN 9x23, CP9x23, 9x21)

the brass is much thicker than super, supercomp and 9x21.

most popular platform for the 9x23 is the 1911, but I have seen conversion on the G20 and the EAA 38super.

note: Back when USPSA had the powerfactor of 175..used to shoot a Springfield P9 in 9x21 reloaded to 9X19OAL with 115JHP loaded to 1550fps. need to watch for pressure, use a proper powder and primers.

FEG
July 21, 2008, 03:02 PM
A CZ in 9x23mm or .38 Super would likely use the 97B frame, since it is already in production. I have no doubt that frame is more than adequate for 9x23mm.

burningsquirrels
July 21, 2008, 03:58 PM
With over 2,000 posts I have to assume that either you are having a really off day, or someone else has hacked your account since it sounds like you have been shooting without ear protection and are considering firing rounds in a gun not chambered for that round.

Neither one is exactly what one would call a great idea.

uhh, what he said.....:scrutiny:

Clean97GTI
July 21, 2008, 04:50 PM
ZeSpectre, I was asking about converting a gun to fire a different round, not stuffing a 9x23 into a gun chambered for 9x19.
I have chronic tinnitus in my right ear. I have ringing going on most of the time anyway. Its just worse when I go shooting even wearing ear protection.

OK, so the general consensus is that the 75 is just not large enough even though it would probably be strong enough. Looks like I need to look elsewhere then. Thanks folks. I wanted to get into reloading and this seems like a fun round to play with.

ZeSpectre
July 21, 2008, 05:16 PM
ZeSpectre, I was asking about converting a gun to fire a different round, not stuffing a 9x23 into a gun chambered for 9x19.
I have chronic tinnitus in my right ear. I have ringing going on most of the time anyway. Its just worse when I go shooting even wearing ear protection.

Ah got it. I'm sure you can see how it had me wondering <grin>.

9mmepiphany
July 21, 2008, 11:08 PM
canidates for conversion would be anything that would chamber the .38 Super or the .45 ACP

the 9x23mm is a .38 Super designed to headspace on the case mouth (smaller rim)

atblis
July 21, 2008, 11:28 PM
the 9x23mm is a .38 Super designed to headspace on the case mouth (smaller rim)
Almost. There are some other difference that are quite important. The 50k psi being foremost among them. There's also different loading data for 9x23 Winchester due to internal case differences because of the special brass to accommodate the higher pressures.

Now, if you were to have said 38 Super Comp, than yeah, that's basically a 38 Super Auto Rimless.

38 SA has actually head spaced off of the rim for quite a while (Officially since the mid Eighties).

FEG
July 21, 2008, 11:45 PM
Just to clarify, I for one doubt that a 75/85 series pistol could tolerate 50,000 psi for very long. That's why I mentioned the 97B frame.

Clean97GTI
July 23, 2008, 12:32 AM
I realize the 97 is a bigger, tougher frame but doesn't the .45acp run at considerably lower pressures than 9mm and .40S&W (which the 75 is chambered for as well)
not that it matters since it doesn't look like the 75 will accomodate the longer round.

atblis
July 23, 2008, 12:46 AM
You basically just need something with more mass to soak up the extra oomph. 45 ACP is lower pressure, but it is also applied to a larger in cross section bore with a more massive bullet.

50k psi really isn't that big a deal. Yeah things errode faster, but the brass is beefed up considerably as it is the weak point anyways. The big problem is probably generating too much slide velocity.

Seriously though if you want to play with 9x23 Winchester in a CZ pattern gun, go get a Witness in 38 SA. Most times 9x23 Winchester functions fine, and you won't feel bad if the gun breaks. I think 10mm is harder on guns than 9x23.

FEG
July 24, 2008, 12:54 PM
I think 10mm is harder on guns than 9x23.

It sure seems to be. True maximum 10mm loads are hard on pistols, despite the lower max pressure.

However, I always figured that a lot of 9x23mm pistols out there are custom-built. I'm not saying that really explains anything, but that was my dismissive reasoning when I first noticed this.

mainmech48
July 24, 2008, 01:27 PM
I think I'd want a compensator, no matter what the platform with something that 'zippy' in the pressure and slide velocity departments. Seems to me it'd add a good deal towards toning things down to where you got better service life from your pistol.

Josh Aston
July 24, 2008, 01:59 PM
If you want more power in your 75 two options are the 9x21mm and the .356 TSW.

FEG
July 24, 2008, 05:20 PM
It used to be very easy to get drop in 9x21 IMI barrels for CZs. CZ-UB and several aftermarket manufacturers used to offer them. I don't hear much about them these days. Bar-Sto was the big seller in the aftermarket arena.

burningsquirrels
July 24, 2008, 05:31 PM
does anyone make aftermarket CZ barrels?

FEG
July 24, 2008, 06:50 PM
does anyone make aftermarket CZ barrels?

Right now? Not to the best of my knowledge. Bar-Sto and a few others offer them on an infrequent basis. Based on what I see on the web, I would write to Bar-Sto. I think there is enough demand right now to justify another production run.

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