[xenophon]

Ok, so as some of you know, I recently got into firearms, dove right in being a newbie, and I just got a glock 19 just over a week ago. I went to the range today for the second time since owning my first gun. The first trip to the range, there was no one there so I had the whole place to myself. This time, there was a guy in bay 2 firing what must have been a .45 judging from the big boom and big holes in his plastic winchester ammunition holder. So I go down to bay 7 (fartherest on the right) , wanting to keep my distance :) This is an indoor range with a 50 foot backstop, located in the basement of the gun shop. Very nice setup, and electronic target retrieval system. Anyways, I watch the guy shoot a round bullseye like target at the 50ft mark. Ok, so he's a good shot. I start my 9mm shooting at 7 yrds, and about 2 magazines into my shooting as I'm reloading, I feel a sting on my right arm, and look down to see a slight red mark. Something grazed me! Ok, I was a little shocked at first cuz I'm new to all this and all, but it did wake me up! I went right on with my business of loading up and kept on firing as usual, thinking to myself "now I know why I wear safety glasses." The guy in bay 2 finished up like 2 min. after I was grazed and was out the door. When I got grazed, the guy had his target about 25ft out, so I dunno *** happened, and I didn't mention anything to him because 1) I didn't get hurt and 2) I didn't think it would have mattered anyways, sh*t happens. My question(s) is was that a bullet fragment that came flying by? I have no idea what backstops are made of, but this place has concrete walls on both sides, and it looks like if you shoot too high, you hit a cement ledge above the stop (ok, that would have to be a VERY bad shot, but still) Are grazing like this common? I looked on the floor around/behind me, but only saw shell casing from my own gun. And this wasn't no shell casing that hit me, that son o b*tch had some velocity on it and left a good mark (that 6 hours later is gone). Don't worry, this slight incident didn't scare me off from ranges, I'm having too much fun as it is with my first gun.

x
(edited for spelling, ahem)

[Thumper]

Not terribly uncommon. I think Jeff Cooper characterized the experience as "exhilarating."

Kind of weird with an angled backstop indoor range, though.

[Brian Dale]

As Thumper wrote, it's not terribly uncommon. I started shooting at age 5 and I'm 43 now. I think that I've only been hit by a fragment once; it was lead shaved at the cylinder-barrel gap in a poorly-functioning revolver. I'm only an occasional shooter, but I've put a lot of lead downrange over the years. I have seen it happen to others (no, they weren't my fragments). I almost wrote, "don't expect to see it happen every other time at the range," but that's wrong. ALWAYS expect it, plan for it, avoid it, dress for it.

And here's the silver lining: when you're shooting with others, and someone in your party doesn't want to wear eye and ear protection, tell 'em how you really feel.

[xenophon]

ah, it's good to hear it's quite common. I was wearing jeans and a shirt sleeve shirt. might consider long sleeve, but it's pretty hot in that indoor places right now....few more months and it'll be more favorable.

Anyone ever get hurt pretty bad from a fragment?

[Glockster35]

I had this happen to me at an outdoor USPSA competition once. I was no where near anyone firing their pistols...but I chalked it up to experience.

From there in I wore a long sleeved shirt (normally a t-shirt) to help protect my arms. While you say you didn't get hury, I did suffer a laceration and bleeding in my "exhileration". I loved it.:p

I wouldn't worry about it much, this stuff happens, but this is exactly why you should always wear eye protection.

[Thumper]

it's good to hear it's quite common

Whoa...not "QUITE common!" It does happen sometimes, though. .45 ACP ball seems to be a common culprit.

[Fly320s]

It's happened to me several times in the last two years.

Probably because I do a lot of steel plate shooting with jacketed ammo. 9 times out of 10, it's a piece of the copper jacket that comes bouncing back off of the steel plate.

About two years ago I was watching some guys shoot steel plates with rifles. The plates were from 50 to 100 yards from the shooters who were about 10 yards in front of me. So the closest plate was roughly 60 yards from me. I was standing under a metal roof when I was hit in the back of my neck with a piece of copper jacket.

The only way that could have happened is if the jacket piece bounced off the underside of the roof.

Amazing.

[mete]

There is always a possibility of getting hit in any range but unfortunately there are also some ranges that are very poorly designed . On these ranges the odds are much higher and it's not just with pieces but even whole bullets. Shooting glasses are NOT an option.

[Iain]

Not a shooting story but to confirm that weird things do happen like that.

Was bending one of my mum's dress making needles some years ago (don't even remember why) anyway they are not designed to be bent and it snapped. Saw the sharp end shoot away in front of me in the smallish sewing room. Searched for it for ages, about ten minutes gave up and went downstairs. Later on put my elbow down on the table and felt a sharp pain. Sure enough the pointy end of the needle was in the back of my elbow.

The only way this could have happened was if it bounced off the wall in front of me, the pane glass behind me and into my elbow (which I hadn't noticed at the time in my haste to close my eyes).

Do people get seriously hurt by these fragments?

[Thumper]

Nope. Key part of the equation is that these are spent bullets. Had one hit me in the base of the throat once. Got my attention...

[cracked butt]

Always wear the eye protection- I had a bad load go off in my 92fs last year that sent alot of hot gas and brass into my face- the glasses I was wearing saved my eyes.:eek:

Xenophon- if you ever want to try some rifles out, and are willing to make a road trip up to Sheboygan, send me an email sometime.

[Don Gwinn]

People who wear eye protection generally have nothing to worry about, but they do tend to sting. If you get a cut, it's probably from a piece of the jacket that separated or tore.

It doesn't happen much, but as someone pointed out, using steel targets makes it more likely.

[ACP230]

I saw a shooter injured at a bowling pin shoot once. A fragment bounced off the pin or the steel table. He was hit in the lip and bled quite a bit. The paramedics who were attending went out and did first aid and then he went off to the hospital. He was back the next year with a small scar on his upper lip.

At the same shoot I felt something graze the side of my face. I think it was plastic off the pins that were being shot. I also found a whole bullet, complete with rifling marks, lying in the grass behind the spectator's area.

At a steel shoot a guy standing at the end of a pickup got hit with a bullet fragment. It raised a welt. I was protected by the side of the pickup and the wheel.

At an indoor range I caught a fragment of a 40 grain .22 bullet. I fired the round and felt something hit my arm. I looked around the booth and found a small piece of a .22 bullet. I knew it was mine because I was the only one shooting at that time.

I always wear ear and eye protection while shooting. I usually also wear a long sleeve shirt, long pants, and a ball cap.

[Blackcloud6]

In a bowlng pin match I got hit in the knee from a .45 ACP round I just fired that bounced back. It stung, no biggie.

[meathammer]

Anyone ever get hurt pretty bad from a fragment?


I am assuming you were at the Shooter's Shop? That's the range I usually go to.
Last Saturday my best buddy and I went shooting there and our range session turned into "one of those days."
I was shooting .45 230gr. fmj and all of a sudden I hear "Ow!" Followed by some colorful language.
I knew right away what had happened since I was the only one shooting. I unloaded quickly, set my pistol down and went over to see my buddy crouched down in the corner rubbing his shin.
Yep, 230 gr. ball right in the leg! He said it felt like someone hit him in the leg with a hammer.
It left a really nice welt, but didn't break skin. After he rubbed the hurt out of it we went back to shooting. His first shot of 9mm, "Bang!" Immediately I feel something bounce off my hat. We laughed about it. Just one of those days.

This is why I ALWAYS wear a hat, pants (my friend had shorts on) and the obvious eye and ear protection!

[DontShootMe]

I've been hit with fragments (mainly from my own gun) nearly 30-40% of the time I go shooting - 9mm WWB seems to be the ammo that gets stuck in my forehead, neck, and arms most of the time.

Occasionally I'll get fragged from another shooters weapon, but mostly just mine. Once a faily large chunk of something lodged itself into my forehead and I had to pick it out while washing my hands after the session. I didnt even notice it was there until I saw it in the mirror.

[xenophon]

meathammer: yeah, the Shooter's Shop was the place I was at. So it got you two also huh? Hrrm, I'm beginning to wonder about that place. First time I'm there with another shoot there and I get hit, and then you two on the same day back to back. I wonder what's up with that place.

x

[W Turner]

I found out first hand how tough the plastic coating on bowling pins is at a local outdoor range last year.

I had just gotten my new 870 and had set up paper targets and bowling pins to shoot at with birdshot. About halfway thru the first drill, I shot a pin and immediately felt like I was being stung by bees. I noticed it, but continued the drill. When I got done, I went downrange to paste the paper targets and when I set the pins back up I noticed that they had a bunch of tiny indentations on them. THe only thing I can think is that the birdshot had ricoched into the tops of my thighs. Stung a little but no big deal....just glad it wasn't a little higher....:eek:

[keyhole]

I have been at different outdoor ranges, where other shooters got hit by fragments. One guy took one in the front of his throat, looked bad, and turned out ok. The other took one in the shoulder, ( fragment of .40 ) pulled his t-shirt into the would. ER pulled it out, cleaned it out, and sent him home. Nothing serious, and glad that it wasn't worse.


Happens when you play with guns:evil:

Just have to wear appropiate protection.

[MagKnightX]

Apparently, it's pretty common to get hit with fragments or shavings from a .22, especially a pistol. I was shooting someone's P22, and almost every shot, I felt a couple of small stings on my face. It was no big deal, but it was annoying. At my last trip to the range, a little sliver from our .22 revolver hit my face right under my left eye. Hurt, but no problem.

[Zer000]

I've taken it in the arm from a 9mm fragment, and in the legs a few times with .22 fragments. No biggie. It has convinced me to wear pants instead of shorts no matter how hot it is outside, however.

[CWL]

At a local indoor range, there was a guy shooting a .454 Casull rental next to me. I don't know what ammo he was using, but every shot blasted fragments back into the faces of everyone on the line.

I wear a baseball cap, glasses and a longsleeve, non-V-neck or open collar shirt. That's about all I can do.

Never been grazed by a real bullet riccochet, but have had numerous brass casings cut half-moons into my forehead though.

[Hardtarget]

I've never been hurt by fragments, ( have been hit a time or two), but my friend Tony has a nasty scar under his eye from jacket material from a center fire rifle. Told me he was shooting at a dirt bank 50 yds away. Doesn't know what he hit but that fragment only missed his eye by less than an inch. Certainly got his attention. I believe in the safty equipment, too.
Mark.

[geekWithA.45]

I didn't get hit with expended bullets, I got nailed, twice, by ejected shells.

The dealio was that I was testing out new 3rd party mags (promag) in my P245.

The small cut was from the last shell in the first mag, and the larger half moon cut is from the last shell in the second mag.

After putting a bandaid on, I packed them into my range bag, and never used them again.

The pic is attached.


Edited to add:

I always wear my "eyes" along with my "ears", and I've added the "baseball hat" to the ensemble as a result of this.

[NRA Instructor]

Regarding the two problems at Shooter's Shop.
When shooting at an indoor range that uses a metal backstop, there should be a couple of rules posted and enforced.
One, the use of lead bullets only.
Two, no ammo used that has a muzzle vel. of over 900 fps.
I shoot at an indoor range with the above rules and I not heard of any problems like the two men from Milwaukee have reported. There is no reason for the two of you to take a risk on getting hurt or hurting someone else.
The owner is risking not only the health of his customers, but the health of his business which could be shut down with a big law suit.
And come on guys, always wear eye protection.

[Orthonym]

I believe it may be a function of (OTBE) velocity. Fred Barnes mentions in "Cartridges of the World" , (referring to the 41 Short Derringer Rimfire),

" The 41 rimfire Short is so under-powered as to be worthless for anything but rats, mice, or sparrows at short range. Fired from the average derringer at a tree or hard object 15 to 25 yards away, the bullet will often bounce back and land at your feet."

My own experience: I had a moderately high-velocity air rifle pellet bounce off from a plywood backstop 20 feet away and sting me a good one just above my eybrow.:eek:

I betcha nobody has this sort of problem with high-velocity bullets because

A.One tends to shoot at things farther away; and

B.High-velocity projectiles tend to go to pieces on the spot.

[Phil Ca]

Years ago when i was working for a federal agency in SF, we were about to test some polycarbonate glazing material for use in a control center. I told the person in charge of the facility who happened to be an appointed(annointed?) type and he said he wanted to go to the range and see the testing. I agreed but told him I would be gone for a few days and the testing would be done when I returned. I was the range officer and knew the hazzards of testing materials.

When I returned from my days off I heard that Mr. C------ had been hit with a riccochet and was a bit traumatized by the incident. I asked how that had happened and was told that he could not wait for my return and took the block of Lexan to the range and set up a test. He fired straight at the test block and the spent bullet came back and hit him in the chest. I guess he thought he was going to die. Anyway, I never heard a peep from him again about wanting to be there when I tested bullet-resistant material again.

We ended up making an entire 40 inch by 84 inch door from the material. It was a tad expensive but well worth the expense. We could see out and knew that no ordinary handgun could defeat the door.

:cool:

[longtom4570]

A couple of years ago iwas at a cowboy shoot and was online to shoot when the stage next to me opened up and hit me with a piece of lead in the forehead, talk about ruining your concentration:cuss: :fire: it bled a little but no big deal:what:

[Mike Irwin]

Fun, isn't it? :)

Last time I was at a falling steel match, earlier this summer, I got clocked in the mouth with a large chunk of bounce back, large enough that it drew blood on my chin right over my lower eyetooth.

When it hit I really thought that it had broken my tooth.

[lostdog]

SWAT comp. last year in SC. A guy got hit in the mouth by a .45 frag from a steel plate. er cleaned him up, sent him home. Next day he still had pain, and they x-rayed it. Most of a .45 slug in his soft palate.

[280PLUS]

a friends 12 yo kid in another kids back yard, other kid shooting his new birthday bb gun at a tree, bb ricochets into friends kid's eye! and lodges behind it.

kid spends 2 separate 6 month sessions 24/7 strapped on his stomach on a table at a 45 degree angle with his head down (first session didnt work) because there was an air bubble behind his eye and it had to heal with the air bubble in just the right spot

never regained full eyesight either, maybe 50% IIRC

diiferent but similar in nature, if you catch a fragment in the eye, you could be seriously laid up for quite some time,,,

:uhoh:

[Sunray]

Rick, as in Rick O'Shea. This is why eye protection is required any time you're on any rage, shooting or not. I've been hit with a .45 on the leg and bouncing down to my ankle. Drew blood. Carried it around my neck for several years in a wee leather pouch on a kevlar string. Didn't help as I got hit with one shotgun pellet not long afterwards. A buddy of mine took a slice of lead through his hat brim into his forehead. It hit and hit his skull and bent back and grabbed a bit of the hide. Had to have X-rays and minor surgery to get it out. He was all worried about getting lead poisoning. Terrible pity I wasn't there. Have Swiss Army knife. Will do surgery. His is the worst I've ever heard of, but if I had been hit in the eye by that .45, I'd likely have lost it.

[Mal H]

Yep, not as uncommon as you would think. I got hit in the shin about a year ago at a bowling pin match. The bullet was a .45 ACP FMJ. I'm sure of that because it was down at my feet still spinning around. I picked it up and it was very warm. There appears to be a definite trend showing up here - lots of bowling pin mishaps and a lot of them are with a .45 FMJ.

I was with Mike Irwin when he caught one in the mouth. As he said, he was hurt more than the usual amount (namely none). After we assured him all of his teeth appeared to still be where they should be, he was ok. :)

This makes you start to wonder how many undetected bullets actually fly back towards the firing line. Since the people standing there make up a relatively small area compared to empty air, I'll bet it happens a lot more than we know about.

[Mike Irwin]

"I was with Mike Irwin when he caught one in the mouth. As he said, he was hurt more than the usual amount (namely none). After we assured him all of his teeth appeared to still be where they should be, he was ok."

Hey! Look who's back from vacation.

And far too soon, too. :p

As best as I can recall, that was the first time I ever had a bounce back draw blood.

It wasn't a lot of blood, just a small smear that immediately stopped bleeding, but the tooth bugged me for some time.

[meathammer]

NRA Instructor said: "And come on guys, always wear eye protection."


I WAS and always do wear eye and ear protection. The ricochet incident only happened that one time, out of many range sessions there.

As far as using only lead or non-jacketed ammunition, there is no rule posted.

In my opinion even a lead bullet striking a hard surface at the right angle COULD possibly ricochet, right?

Regardless, I will be sure to bring this up to the guys running the shop the next time I go there. Maybe it is a more common occurence and they need to make changes to the range/rules.

[Mike Irwin]

"In my opinion even a lead bullet striking a hard surface at the right angle COULD possibly ricochet, right?"

Absolutely. It could, conceivably, come straight back at you.