Cycling Actions


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ieszu
July 23, 2008, 11:48 AM
Saw this topic in another thread, but it looked like it was going to get locked, so I figured I would start a new thread that might hopefully stay on topic.

When I owned a gun store, as well as the place I was a manager, the store policy was to keep all new guns zip-tied or trigger locked so that they could not be cycled, unless the customer ordered it. All used guns were allowed to be fondled to an extent, actions cycled, etc. as they were used guns. If a customer insisted on cycling a new gun, we charged $25 that would be credited to their purchase of that gun. This seemed to stop people from cycling weapons that weren't really interested in buying.

I did think once that buying store copies of guns that people could fondle, and then get another copy from the storage area if the customer decided to purchase would be the best solution to the problem, but that would be a huge outlay in inventory that would not be sold for a while....

What have you all seen as a solution, and what did you think of it? Any ideas on how to solve this age old problem?

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Mt Shooter
July 23, 2008, 01:37 PM
Have I got a used car for you! OH no you can't look under the hood, no you can't sit on the seats. NO no don't kick the tires you may scuff them. Hand over $400 non refundable deposit, credited toward the purchase and you can sit behind the wheel.

Sorry but I always cycle the slide to ensure its not loaded, I have no idea who or what was done with it. I also have to "feel" the trigger pull. Last gun i bought that made the difference between buying the Spring field or the Kimber.

tinygnat219
July 23, 2008, 01:57 PM
If I can't cycle the action, I am not interested in buying the gun from you.

Sorry, but the whole point of a gunstore is to have the opportunity to have the chance to look at the bore try the trigger and cycle the firearm.

BruceRDucer
July 23, 2008, 02:04 PM
Car dealerships have models that people drive around, then sell at a discount.

More than that, is it supposed that cycling a gun damages the gun? If it's that sensitive, who would buy it?

Scratch & Dent sales could be useful. How many "friends" might you have, who will gladly take a good firearm with a scratch?

Can a dealer make up for such losses with the sale of other goods, or classes or___________?

One gun shop refused to allow my wife to cycle a 12 guage pump. After that, it was GANDER MOUNTAIN, HERE WE COME. We bought that very morning.

So don't let me cycle the guns. I wouldn't want to break a gun in the store.

/

esmith
July 23, 2008, 02:04 PM
If you can't cycle the action or even touch a gun you are interested in buying, than it's like being blindfolded. You only have what you see to go on.

gym
July 23, 2008, 02:31 PM
I can understand it to a certain degree on high end weapons. And there are some cars that don't allow a test drive. Sometimes they will have a similar vechicle that you can drive, and sometimes not. If you walk into an Aston Martin or a porshe dealership they will not usually let you drive a hundred thousand plus vechicle for obvious reasons. mainly no one keeps ferrari type demo vechicles. Most of the time they were ordered a year or more ahead of time. Now with guns, you really need to size up a guy who wants to test a 2 thousand plus gun, only because if he or she drops it, you are screwed. Normally a person who can spend thousands on a gun, isn't going to want a scratched or dinged gun that price. I think that you need to pre qualify the buyer. Sales people who deal in expensive retail products, should know how to do that without being rude. If you require a scenario of how to do that, I can provide that for you. But I agree with the initial poster who owns the store, you don't want to give an unexperianced person, the oppertunity to damage a saleable high demand item. I would sell a gun like that with the reassurance that if there was anything wrong with the gun after it was purchased, I would refund the amount paid with no problem, as long as it was something that was really wrong, not that he didn't like the way it felt . The person would be invited to try their new pistol out , "on the house", I might even go as far as offering the client a free 1/2 hour instruction in whatever went along with that weapon, such as a combat, or target class with a proffessional instructor. Just a couple ideas, I haven't given much thought to what extra services one might offer. There are ways of selling things that add value to the purchase, but handing an expensive pistol, to someone you don't know, and allowing them to cycle the weapon and dry fire it, in my humble opinion, is not a great idea, unless you work for someone else, in which case if they don't care, why should you. Let me just add that I disagree on the subject of charging anyone anything to shop ,"which is what you would be doing", the $25 dollar deal will other than cause instant dislike of the store, cost you much more than you realize as word spreads. i missed that part somehow.

kingpin008
July 23, 2008, 02:48 PM
Ieszu - No offense, but if I walked into a gun store and wanted to check out a gun, and the clerk told me that it would be $25 (which I'd only get back if I bought the gun after I was done looking at it) I'd laugh in his face and tell him good luck with that.

I can understand a business owner wanting to protect his stock from damage, but your solution seems more than a little extreme. If the customer wants to check out a gun that has the potential to be damaged by certain manipluations, tell the customer that, and ask that they not do certain things (or let you show them) while checking out the gun. Provide snap-caps for guns that are susceptible to damage from dry-firing, etc. That's a reasonable, mutually beneficial solution. The customer gets to examine the function of the gun, and the seller gets to ensure that certain protocols are observed that will protect his product as much as possible. Charging people money to examine a firearm, and then not returning that money unless they buy it (whether they damaged it or not in the process of inspection and function checking) to me, borders on robbery.

fixyurgun
July 23, 2008, 03:00 PM
I mainly sell used guns. you can cycle the action inspect ,& if you want to try the trigger we'll step out front & shoot it.
If I'm selling a new gun,it's because you had me order it for you so same rules apply but you can dry fire your gun if you wish.
If it gets to where I've got new guns in stock I may rethink this or maybe not. Jim

Cosmoline
July 23, 2008, 03:06 PM
The policy is annoying and idiotic. Personally I have always refused to deal with the sellers who have this attitude. If a firearm is so fragile that it cannot be cycled, you should never have sold it to begin with. Around here the only shops that do this are nasty little pawn outfits and certain people at gun shows who really aren't there to sell anything.

jismay
July 23, 2008, 03:16 PM
When I bought my CZ75 I got a $50 discount because it was the display-case one and had gotten a bit scratched up.

SN13
July 23, 2008, 03:32 PM
I agree Cosmo. I go to the gun shop to handle firearms. Otherwise, why not just order everything online for $30 cheaper than in the store and not pay Tax.

I go into a gun store, handle the arms, put them through all the tests besides firing, and make a decision. Once I have the decision, I go to the local gun shop that was most courteous and obliging in my handling of the firearms, and, if they are not completely out of the ball park on prices, I purchase from them.

CZ-P01. Best price online for a new one (that I could find):
Gun - $480
Shipping - $20
Transfer - $25

Total, $525 Gun-Unseen

CZ P01 I purchased:

Gun - $510
Tax - $30.60

Total -$540.60 Gun-Handled and Tested.

$15 more but since they were close I gave them the sale because they were courteous and didn't hassle me about manipulating the guns.

GigaBuist
July 23, 2008, 03:37 PM
When I owned a gun store, as well as the place I was a manager,

Still in business?

hankdatank1362
July 23, 2008, 03:42 PM
Giga, that's exactly what I was wondering. Past tense.

DoubleTapDrew
July 23, 2008, 03:52 PM
If you can't fondle it and work the controls you might as well buy online and save money because either way you're taking a gamble.
I can understand certain rules (like avoiding "idiot marks" on 1911s) but if the thing can't handle a simple function check without getting hurt I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable selling it to someone who'll actually *gasp* shoot it someday.

Nakanokalronin
July 23, 2008, 03:55 PM
If a customer insisted on cycling a new gun, we charged $25 that would be credited to their purchase of that gun. This seemed to stop people from cycling weapons that weren't really interested in buying.

Not being able to get a fell for the gun is not going to get a sale from me. If a store thinks that cycling the action is going to break the guns than they either sell junk guns or are paranoid that the guns will lose value. Either way is ridiculous. Would you buy a car from a dealer that said you could'nt sit inside or look under the hood?

New guns should be handled since the kind of money you might drop on one.Used guns should be handled so you can see the condition.

CBS220
July 23, 2008, 04:00 PM
If a clerk told me it would be $25 to do that, I would be out the door in no time. There are plenty of dealers, online and otherwise, who are more than willing to let me try out a gun with the stipulation that I can bring it back in a few days if dissatisfied.

If a dealer is not even willing to let me cycle it, then he can forget having me buy it.

kingpin008
July 23, 2008, 04:40 PM
I don't mean to dog-pile the OP, but the more I think about the policy he had when he owned/ran his shop, the more it bothers me.

Specifically what bothers me, is just how insulting it is to the customers. Speaking for myself - I'm a full-time student, as well as living on a fixed income. Price is a big part of any purchases I make, especially luxury items like firearms. If I walk into a shop and the owners charge me a fee to handle the firearm, with no guarantee that it will be returned unless I buy the firearm, that is a guarantee that they will NEVER get my business - first because it's ridiculous and secondly because I don't have $25 dollars to throw at ANY salesperson for the "priviledge" of examining a product that I may want to purchase.

I dunno. I guess I don't have much of a point beyond that - just been thinking about the OP's description of his business practices, and the more it sinks in, the more unbelieveable it gets.

jakemccoy
July 23, 2008, 04:47 PM
I think a lot people here missed the fact that you only charged $25 to cycle the brand new guns. If I were the owner, I'd probably charge $100 to handle a brand new gun. In fact, I don't know of any store around me that allows me to handle a brand new gun before I've committed to buy.

I don't know about you guys, but the brand new guns I've bought are clearly brand new. They have foam inserts, stickers that require removal and whatnot. When I purchase a brand new gun, that’s what I want to see. I don’t want to see handling and idiot marks, and I won't purchase such a gun as if it's brand new.

Local stores do allow me to handle the identical used gun on the shelf that is available for purchase at a discount. After I purchase, I can handle the brand new gun I purchased in front of the employee. If there's a clear problem with the gun I purchased right in front of the employee, well, that's where basic contract law kicks-in. The store replaces the gun with a gun that works.

torpid
July 23, 2008, 04:53 PM
What have you all seen as a solution, and what did you think of it? Any ideas on how to solve this age old problem?

I wasn't aware that it was an age old problem.

HIcarry
July 23, 2008, 04:55 PM
I would sell a gun like that with the reassurance that if there was anything wrong with the gun after it was purchased, I would refund the amount paid with no problem, as long as it was something that was really wrong, not that he didn't like the way it felt .

So, you can't cycle the action and if you buy it and then find it doesn't "feel right" you're out of luck? Sorry, like many folks here I don't think I would be buying from that store either. When my girlfriend, who was new to firearms, wanted to purchase a gun, one of the major factors that influenced her decision was how easily she could cycle the action. After trying a few, she found one that she liked and could operate effectively and bought it. Of course that meant that she tried out many others that she didn't end up buying. At $25.00 a "try" she would have had to spend about $200.00 for the privlege of cycling the actions on those unbought guns.

Cosmoline
July 23, 2008, 04:57 PM
I don't know of any store around me that allows me to handle a brand new gun before I've committed to buy.

It must be a regional thing, because a gun store in AK that did that would run into real difficulties. Great Northern Guns has a back rack with the valuable ones, but they'll still let you handle them and cycle them. They're SELLING firearms, they're not a museum. The notion of buying a new firearm without feeling the action throw, balance, and trigger is absurd to me unless it's one you aready know very well. I've been willing to buy certain Mosins or a CZ sight unseen, but only because I know them extremely well.

kingpin008
July 23, 2008, 04:59 PM
I think a lot people here missed the fact that you only charged $25 to cycle the brand new guns.

Why should it matter whether they were new or not?

You're telling me, that if you paid $25 to handle and inspect a product, and when you were done (and it was apparent that you had caused no damage or wear) the clerk kept your money, that you'd be OK with that?

I'm sorry, but if that's what you're saying - you're a fool.

Now, if the clerk required a deposit before handling, and returned it on completion of the customer's inspection, as long as there had been no damage done - that's a different story. Still not high on my list of ways to run a business, but at least the dealer isn't profiting for no reason.

jakemccoy
July 23, 2008, 05:07 PM
I think people need to calm down and digest what's actually being said here.

jasonguerard
July 23, 2008, 05:11 PM
Beside, if its a 1911, it will reduce the break-in time !
Seriously, I would never pay to look at a gun.

kingpin008
July 23, 2008, 05:15 PM
Jake - so what's really being said here? It seems pretty plain, if one were to read the OP's post, that he used to charge people money to examine and function-check guns, and would keep the money whether there was damage done to the gun or not. To me, and quite a few other members, that seems more than a bit unfair.

Please see fit to enlighten us if we're collectively reading his post incorrectly. :rolleyes:

jakemccoy
July 23, 2008, 05:20 PM
'round my parts, a new gun means one that's in the box. Guns on display are referred to as display guns, not new guns. Perhaps we have a difference in terminology. That's why I said calm down. Everybody besides you is not automatically an idiot.

CajunBass
July 23, 2008, 05:21 PM
I think people need to calm down and digest what's actually being said here.

Well, I know I'm not very bright, but I think I digested it pretty well.

If a customer insisted on cycling a new gun, we charged $25 that would be credited to their purchase of that gun.

I go into his shop to look at say a NEW 1911. He hands me the gun. I go to clear it. He say's "That'll be $25.00. If you buy the gun we take the $25.00 off the price. If you don't buy it we keep the $25.00." Is that about right or am I missing something?

I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to the next gunshop down the road.

JohnBT
July 23, 2008, 05:24 PM
I've never bought anything I couldn't take a good look at. Came close, but they were mail order deals with a right of return.

OTOH, I see a difference if we are talking about handling new Glocks or some run-of-the-mill $500 gun compared to a $1000 to $2000+ new gun. You know, if you show some good manners and gun handling savvy, well, they might just make an exception for you.

The one time I've only been allowed to look at a production gun was a Colt WWI Repro that had just been put in the case and didn't even have a price tag on it yet. They'd pulled the slide back just far enough to check the chamber, but not far enough to lock it back.

They knew it would sell and they set the rules for it, being a collectible and all that. So I asked to see it anyway and my father and I looked at it. We liked it.

I asked to rack the slide and then try the trigger. The salesman said, "Going to buy it?" My reply was, "If the trigger is good enough to be regular range gun."

It was and I wrote them a check for $999. I love places that just toss my checks into the register without the delay of running them to see if they're good.

Other than that one time they've never hesitated to let me handle anything in the store. Of course, I have some history with the shop and I'm not some unknown window shopper drooling on the glass, getting fingerprints all over everything in sight and talking an unending stream of nonsense (most of the time.)

The other major store I deal with has the new guns out where you can mess with them and a vast inventory of duplicates in the back. If you ask nicely they'll get 2 or 3 from the back and let you pick one you like the looks of, or the nice stock if it's a long gun.

John

rcmodel
July 23, 2008, 05:33 PM
Cabala's in K.C. has/had a S&W 329PD that they have had since that gun came out in 2003.

Everybody has to look at it!
It has been in & out of the glass case so many times, bumping the glass shelf edge each time, that it is completely covered in finish dinks.

I tried to buy it several times early on, until it got so "dinged" I no longer would have wanted it.

Each time I ask, the price was full retail, take it or leave it!
And they would not come down, or sell it as a used demo or sales sample.

Far as I know, it's still there waiting on someone to buy it.

When I buy a brand new gun for almost a grand or more, it better not even have someone elses fingerprints on it, let alone turn lines, glass dings, and scuff marks!

rcmodel

jakemccoy
July 23, 2008, 05:34 PM
thanks rcmodel

And another person of lesser means may say $500 where you say a grand.

kingpin008
July 23, 2008, 05:43 PM
RC - I don't disagree. In fact, I don't think anyone who's commented here so far does either. What we disagree with, is the practice described by the OP - charging a fee to examine the gun, and then KEEPING that fee, whether the gun was damaged or not!

That is the issue. We all realize and understand that the seller has the right to maintain the best quality of product that he's able to maintain - we just don't appreciate the idea of being charged $25 dollars for nothing!

XDKingslayer
July 23, 2008, 05:48 PM
we charged $25 that would be credited to their purchase of that gun. This seemed to stop people from cycling weapons that weren't really interested in buying.

If I come in looking to purchase a .45 how would I know which is the better weapon? How can I compare controls like slide release ease if I can't move the action?

If I pick out 5 different makes of .45 caliber weapons are you going to charge me $125 to make up my mind?

In all honesty I would make a career out of keeping people away from your store with a policy like that.

torpid
July 23, 2008, 06:05 PM
If you want to charge me for inspecting the gun and cycling it before I decide to buy, I'm not paying.

If I'm not paying your "inspection fee", you say I'm not cycling it.

Well, if I'm inclined to buy a gun without inspecting it, then I might as well buy it from the internet for $100+ dollars less than you're likely charging.

ieszu
July 23, 2008, 06:31 PM
Let me clarify... I realized I mistyped when I initially posted.

The place I was the manager, the owner required the $25 fee.

My place, I did not require it, mostly because I dealt in used guns and repairs.... the only "New in box" items I dealt with were special ordered.

I agree, charging a fee to look at a gun is ridiculous.... I was curious how people felt the proper way to handle the problem of people dinging up guns who had no interest in buying one to begin with, but just wanted to fondle one....

Oh, and I am in the process of setting up a new store, in a new area, so I wanted to see what informed customers/clients liked seeing the issue dealt with...

Cosmoline
July 23, 2008, 06:35 PM
One suggestion I would make--have a pre-set "safe" wall to point the firearm with a target. As a customer few things annoy me more than getting swept and covered by people playing around with the firearms. With the high end firearms I think it's reasonable to limit dry firing and inspection to those you're actually helping out if you're worried about people chipping the stock or hurting the firearm in some way.

torpid
July 23, 2008, 06:50 PM
One suggestion I would make--have a pre-set "safe" wall to point the firearm with a target.

I cannot agree more with this great idea.

JesseL
July 23, 2008, 07:05 PM
What happens if a customer comes in seriously interested in a new gun and plunks down their $25 for the privilege of cycling it, only to discover that the gun is broken (through no fault of the customer)?

Would you keep their $25? Charge them another $25 to look at another identical pistol? Credit their $25 towards another pistol?

I don't think I'd ever buy something from a shop with such a policy.

One of the local shops (Prescott Valley Guns) has all their long guns in racks out on the floor where customers can wander through and fondle them to their hearts content. I've never noticed their inventory being beat up or damaged. Maybe they just have a better breed of customer.

MD_Willington
July 23, 2008, 07:08 PM
I too routinely cycle them to see if they are loaded. Even if the person selling it does it first. I just figured it was a good safe practice.

mnrivrat
July 23, 2008, 07:31 PM
When I buy a brand new gun for almost a grand or more, it better not even have someone elses fingerprints on it, let alone turn lines, glass dings, and scuff marks!

I've pulled new in the box guns out of the box and found what some would call a scuff mark - you know that there are real people working at the factory who pack these things ? and they have fingers ! With prints on them !

Just let me know before you come in looking to buy a gun, that it has to be in an unopened box with a factory letter stating the gun is without flaw under 10X magnification and quaranteed to be so. Dealers get those in all the time and sell them at half price to make their customers happy.

Edit: PS And how are you going to know that someones elses finger prints are on the gun, or if there is a little tiny scuff mark ,when I don't let you inspect the gun ? After all, you got fingers too!
And you might just scuff the thing - that just makes a case for charging a customer to look at a gun as I see it.

Ltlabner
July 23, 2008, 07:59 PM
In fact, I don't know of any store around me that allows me to handle a brand new gun before I've committed to buy.

Yikes. Sounds like you are surrounded by crappy gunstores.

I've become very picky about which stores I will frequent. Heck, I've begun crossing stores that don't allow CCW off my list so one that wouldn't allow handling would most certinally not have me as a customer.

As for the question of how to handle people banging up the guns. Deal with it on a case by case. If someone accidently sets it down too hard I wouldn't say anything. If they slam it down on the glass like a hammer-head I'd adress it. If it puts a small scuff on the finish I'd likely ignore it. If someone put a big gash that would drastically effect the value of the weapon, then I'd be asking for money from the goof. Like most any situation in life, deal with each situation and try to avoid hard & fast rules.

ieszu
July 23, 2008, 08:05 PM
...deal with each situation and try to avoid hard & fast rules.

Of all the comments I have seen, I think this one is the one I can see the logic in the best. I have seen customers rack the slide 10 times just because they could, I have seen them rapid dryfire and throw then them on the counter.

Then again I was in NY, so that explains some of it :)

Anyone else have any better ideas? I agree with the not charging $25 (or $.01) to look at a firearm.... any other suggestions?

misANTHrope
July 23, 2008, 08:17 PM
Like it or not, you're going to have display guns, which are going to get banged up, scratched, fingerprinted, and so on, and some day down the line, you're going to end up selling them at a discount. It's annoying, but it's part of the cost of doing business in my mind.

The stuff with display guns can get ridiculous. I've had popular guns come in, and ended up selling every one in back stock within a few days of putting one on display. So a guy comes in, wants one, and I tell him that the display's the only one I've got left, but it's only been on the rack for a couple of days. I've had folks look it over, confirm that they can't find a single flaw, and then demand a discount.

Annoying? Sure. But it's still part of doing business. Charging folks to inspect a gun sounds like a good way to send them on down the road, unless maybe we're talking about $1000+ fine firearms.

camslam
July 23, 2008, 08:26 PM
I think we can all agree that whatever your opinion and reasons for it, thank goodness most gun stores don't charge to handle the firearm.

Many times I have gone to the gun show, there are signs saying the same thing, "please don't touch or handle the firearms."

If I am interested in a particular model or gun, I will ask if it ok to handle the firearm and every time but one, it has been.

This whole thread reminds me of the childhood exchange:

"Hey, can I see that?" (Reaching out with said hands)

Reply - "You, don't see with your hands." :neener:

Bottom line, I'm not buying a gun or conducting business at a place that won't let me handle the arms without a charge/credit/deposit/ or anything else like that.

mnrivrat
July 23, 2008, 09:34 PM
Anyone else have any better ideas? I agree with the not charging $25 (or $.01) to look at a firearm.... any other suggestions?

My point realy in an earlier post is that it is near impossible to expect a flawless gun from the facory - if you look close enough, you will find something. I had a customer turn down a NIB gun that he ordered in . The box was not opened until he was standing there and he was the one who took it out of the box. He looked and looked and looked at it and then put it on the counter and said I don't want to start out with a gun that has blemishes and would not take it. He points to what he called a blemish and I literaly had to turn the gun into a light and use a magnifyer to see a little drag mark where the assembler apparently moved the screw across about a 1/4 inch of metal to drop it into the hole for assembly.

If you are buying a firearm strictly for investment or collecting ,and it will not be fired ,then by all means look it over carefully and find the best out of box new gun you can find. I say out of box, because you just took it out to inspect it didn't you ?

If you are looking to buy a gun to shoot, then why be concerned about something that will be there after your first range usage anyway ? A used gun is one that has been fired outside the factory - one that has not been shot, is a new gun. If it has a little mark or flaw, then it is a new gun with a little mark. If the guy who looked at it last put that mark in it, or if you put that mark in it, makes no differnce - it is a NEW gun that has not been used.

Cycling the action is not shooting the gun - if someone mishandles a firearm during inspection then call them on it . Politely if at all possible ! That's it ! That's all ! That either makes sense to you or it doesn't .

XDKingslayer
July 23, 2008, 09:36 PM
In fact, I don't know of any store around me that allows me to handle a brand new gun before I've committed to buy.

The last store I went to I walk in and told the guy behind the counter I was interested in a RIA Tactical. He reached into the cabinet, pulled one out and handed it to me.

Hardware
July 23, 2008, 09:42 PM
Well, I do frequent stores where I can handle the firearms and cycle the actions. I don't dry fire out of respect for the equipment. I'll ask for snap caps if I want to feel the trigger break and I usually only do that if I'm really ready to buy.

If you tell me I can't hold it, can't cycle the action, I may as well buy from an internet outfit.

jakemccoy
July 23, 2008, 09:52 PM
Of all the comments I have seen, I think this one is the one I can see the logic in the best. I have seen customers rack the slide 10 times just because they could, I have seen them rapid dryfire and throw then them on the counter.

Then again I was in NY, so that explains some of it

Anyone else have any better ideas? I agree with the not charging $25 (or $.01) to look at a firearm.... any other suggestions?

Here are some options if you're actually interested in a solution, instead of an argument:

-Have one dedicated display gun of each model. When inventory is out, sell your display gun at a discount. The customer gets to check their gun after they purchase. If their gun doesn't work, you replace it with one that does.

-Sell a display gun as brand new until somebody cares. There is probably a sizable market of newer gun owners who would care. Even though folks here may not like such people, those people are still your potential customers. The other day, I saw a newbie gun buyer jump through hoops to buy a particular gun in the store. In this particular situation, she could have easily purchased over the Internet with less hassle, but she didn't know and probably wouldn't want to do so anyway. In contrast, many of your more experienced customers are likely to show up to work over your guns, leave and then buy the best deal on the Internet. The experienced gun owners here are obviously quick to leave if they can't give your guns a hand job.

-Never sell the display gun but have a system of being able to acquire a particular gun quickly if not in stock. In other words, stay in touch with the distributors who have the best service.

-Price match.

=====

It's surprising how many people have turned this into an emotional discussion. My girlfriend jumps on my case without breathing first when she's on her cycle (pun intended). However, we're men. I think.

The Lone Haranguer
July 23, 2008, 09:53 PM
If I am serious enough about buying a gun to even ask you to let me see it, you will let me cycle its action and dry fire it, or the cash or plastic in my pocket will stay in my pocket.

I've gotten this "'tude" before from a gun shop owner, and I told him essentially the above. He let me, and made a sale. However, had I not wanted that gun very badly, I might have told him to go :fire: himself.

owlhoot
July 23, 2008, 09:58 PM
On the other hand, a great many revolvers will mark the cylinder when cycled. As a buyer, I would agree with RCModel, I would expect to get a gun without a mark.

An even worse case is a Colt, or Colt type, SA revolver which will not mark the cylinder when handled properly, but the average Joe (and average clerk) can be counted on to not know how to handle the gun and is sure to mark it. As a buyer that would really give me heartburn.

And in the case of .22 revolvers or pistols, it is never a good policy to work the action including trying the trigger without snap caps or empties.

Nevertheless, I would certainly want and expect to try the trigger on most of the guns that I might purchase, but I would certainly understand not being able to cycle the action on some guns.

W.E.G.
July 23, 2008, 10:15 PM
I think we are getting off track here when we start talking about unique, high-end guns.

Remember - the thread that got this discussion started was based on an incident where the gun shop would not let the guy cycle the action on a MOSSBERG 30-30.

There is a world of difference between that gun and a cherry Colt SAA.

brighamr
July 23, 2008, 10:27 PM
I like reading all the replies from people who obviously haven't read the entire thread...

OP - I agree with jake. buy a dedicated display model of everything you intend to sell. Let the customer's play with NIB guns after the sale, and have a zero BS return policy.

My local store works exactly this way. I go in, test out 10 or 11 brands/models of 1911's and when i find one I really want, he runs in the back and brings it out NIB. Works out very well, and I am a 15-pete customer :)

Other suggestions for your new place:
*Treat every customer like they are already a gunny. My wife's biggest peave is when store workers say "oh that might be too much recoil for you" or "we have that one in pink". Any sort of comment like this, and we are gone.
*If a customer buys a $1200 AR from you, throw in a couple GI mags for free. You'll lose $20, but make several thousand in repeat business.
*Let your customers have opinions. Don't force your opinions on them. This is another mistake that a lot of gun stores make.

All the above opinions are exactly that. My personal opinion. Good luck!

Waddison
July 24, 2008, 12:05 AM
If a customer insisted on cycling a new gun, we charged $25 that would be credited to their purchase of that gun. This seemed to stop people from cycling weapons that weren't really interested in buying.It probably DISINTERESTED most people that would have bought had they had the chance to handle it!
Hey, a "You break or damage it, you buy it" policy with a sign behind the counter would probably get your sentiments on the issue across quite well.

The $25 handling charge has probably cost several thousands of dollars of business. But then these types don't generally stay in business very long with customer relations like that.

What a knothead.

Waddison

Waddison
July 24, 2008, 12:26 AM
I had a customer turn down a NIB gun that he ordered in .No problem. Keep his deposit and put the gun in the display case. Most shops require any where from 10% to 50% down to special order something for a customer. Keeping that deposit when the customer refuses to accept his order is the price he pay for perfection.

The first gun I ordered from what is now my favorite shop, I offered to put 50% cash down and the shop Owner said to me: "You're welcome to do that if you like, but I don't require anything up front. If you don't take it when it comes in, I'll put in the rack. Somebody will buy it." Heck of an attitude! I have bought several guns from him over the last couple years and have ordered 3 of them. He charges full retail for special orders, though.

Just my 2 cents....

Waddison

BruceRDucer
July 24, 2008, 01:26 AM
The original post said, at the end:

"What have you all seen as a solution, and what did you think of it? Any ideas on how to solve this age old problem?"

I just wonder if a store owner/operator could not have about 20 of the most popular handguns, rifles and shotguns, and on a Weekend, offer the public classes. Explain some of the basic features and differences, and let them handle them.

Certain expensive guns might be excluded from the specific event.

What if you could charge say....$5.00 per person to show disassembly or assembly of certain firearms. Then you could announce a discount of $20.00 on any of the weapons used in the lessons.

I think somewhere, there has to be compensation for the owner, which permits customer satisfaction; but it's the owner's responsibility to generate the compensation.

As a person, I am sometimes an idiot; but it's a wise businessman who assures me:

"The customer is always right"

When a businessman tells me that, I tend to listen to everything else he has to say. I know I'm an idiot. He knows I'm an idiot. We both know I'm an idiot who doesn't know .40 caliber from .40 caliber Smith & Wesson; but if he stands there with a HAPPY AS A FROG IN POND SCUM GRIN while he watches me cycle the action, I know I'm in the right place.

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