30-30 Vs Bear?


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full metal
July 23, 2008, 06:28 PM
I am thinking of getting a marlin 30-30 with a scope for deer, but if I had to shoot a bear with it would it get the job done, or would I end up as bear food.:( I live in the State of Arizona the only bear around here is at the border line with New Merxico, but if I was to go to bear country I would like to know I could count on my rifle. I was also thinking on a 44 mag lever action for javalina, how would the 44 rifle hold up against a bear?.

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rcmodel
July 23, 2008, 06:32 PM
Assume you are talking about black bear?

Either the 30-30 or .44 Mag carbine will kill them just fine.

If I was to go to Alaska where the big tough bears live, I might consider a 45-70 lever-gun more suitable.

rcmodel

bestseller92
July 23, 2008, 06:39 PM
I'd wager more black bears have been dispatched with Thuttythutties than any other caliber.

jmr40
July 23, 2008, 07:47 PM
With the right bullets I also think either would be fine. I like the heavier 170's in the 30-30 instead of the 150's and even lighter some people use. Same for the .44, use a good quality bullet of at least 240gr.

While both will work I have found that the 30-30 is generally more accurate and it gives you more range for deer hunting.

Reddbecca
July 23, 2008, 07:54 PM
I'll agree with what everybody else has said; the .30-30 should work against black bear, but against anything bigger I'm gonna want the .45-70.

If you know that you're gonna be facing a bear and all you have is a .30-30, then you'd better be an awful good shot.

NCsmitty
July 23, 2008, 08:03 PM
The 308 Marlin is also an option if you have the extra cash for the couple hundred fps that you can gain. You can almost buy two 30-30 models for what the 308 model costs.

NCsmitty

W.E.G.
July 23, 2008, 08:16 PM
The 30-30 should be plenty gun out to about 150 yards for southern Arizona bear.

Shawnee
July 23, 2008, 10:12 PM
The 30/30 will be just fine on black bears.

:cool:

karnaaj
July 23, 2008, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't feel too uncomfortable with a 30-30 but I sure as hell wouldn't feel like I had too much gun either. Not too many people go into the woods specifically looking for bear armed with such a weapon. Why take the risk?

Matt-J2
July 23, 2008, 10:43 PM
If a bear was charging me and I was armed with shoulder fired TOW missiles, I still wouldn't feel like I had too much gun.


If I was hunting deer with a .30-30, I'd feel fine with it in case of black bear. Given that it would most likely already be in hand if a bear charged, I'd probably start firing right away rather than drop it and try and grab some other gun. If you're really worried about it, a .45-70 certainly isn't too small for deer.
Also, folks use .44mag in a pistol as bear defense, a rifle so chambered can't be any worse, though I don't think it has the same range as the .30-30 for deer, if that's a concern.

In short, any of them should work, just pick the trade-offs you're most comfortable with.

Macchina
July 23, 2008, 11:34 PM
I have a Marlin Lever gun in .44 magnum, and love the gun. I don't think you'd have time to shoot 10 shots, but the .44 does have 4 more capacity in the tube. I'd feel comfortable with either a 30-30 or a .44, but would choose a .44. 240 grains of lead in a .44 diameter ball traveling near 2000 FPS is not going to do any good to a bears skull. In my opinion, if you have a lever gun, don't put a scope on it. If you are shooting far enough to need a scope, you should be using a long distance rifle. Look into HS halo sights, they are amazing. I can keep 10 shots from .44 inside a 4" circle at 100 yards, and I am not an experienced open sight shooter, my Marlin is the only open sight rifle I have.

One thing for sure, I'd rather have a lever gun if faced with a bear than a slightly more powerful bolt action. You can get a few shots off pretty fast.

ECVMatt
July 24, 2008, 02:01 AM
I have both a .30/30 and a .44 or two...

I would be happy with either for the situation you are describing.

michaelmcgo: What is an HS Halo Sight? I have never heard of them and can't find them on the web. Thanks,

Matt

MinnMooney
July 24, 2008, 02:19 AM
I'd wager more black bears have been dispatched with Thuttythutties than any other caliber.


You can add two by me over the past 4 years. Both went down within 50 yards and left a blood trail that Mr. Magoo could follow!

If you see the posibility of shooting at a bear at anything over 150 yards, shoot something flatter and more powerful like a .270 or .30-06.

rcmodel
July 24, 2008, 02:39 PM
The 308 Marlin is also an optionIt remains to be seen if the .308 Marlin will still be around 20 years from now.

But we already know you won't find any ammo for them at the deer-woods Stop & Puke gas station like you will 30-30 & .44 Mag ammo.

rcmodel

goon
July 24, 2008, 03:19 PM
30-30 (170 grain bullets) is enough for black bear.

It's old but that doesn't mean it's impotent.

Higgy
July 24, 2008, 03:25 PM
"old but not impotent"

Good words, Goonie. The 30-30 is America's hunting round. :)

woof
July 24, 2008, 03:31 PM
Don't overlook the same gun in .35 Rem

Float Pilot
July 24, 2008, 05:17 PM
Up here in Alaska you would be amazed how many 30-30s are out in the bush villages. Tons of them. And they take every sort of critter you can think of.

There is a saying up here, that the closer you get to a big city, the larger the caliber of the rifles become.

A real rifleman with a 30-30 is a lot more dangerous than an occasional shooter with a 458 Lott.

goon
July 24, 2008, 08:36 PM
There is a saying up here, that the closer you get to a big city, the larger the caliber of the rifles become.

Makes sense.
For a pound of ammunition you probably get a lot more shots from a 30-30 than from a larger rifle.
The efficiency could make a difference to people who have to carry their ammuntion a long way or who have to pay a lot to have it brought to them.

Float Pilot
July 25, 2008, 12:58 AM
Actually it has more to do with folks talking themsleves into larger calibers. Much easier to do when you work for a descent wage and drive by the gunstore on the way home from work.

In the bush villages, a rifle is just another abused tool like a chainsaw. Used on a regular basis and often neglected. Usually shooting one legal moose during the season eevry year and God knows how many during poaching season. When they occasionally run across a bear they just blast him with a whole magazine tube full of old 150 grain flat-points.

I have lots of calibers because the voices in my head tell me to buy them. But I seldom use many of them for hunting or critter protection.

I have taken every critter up here with a 7x57mm Mauser and the largest moose I every shot was with a 30-30.

While I have hunted them in the past, Brown Bears (Grizzly for the outside folks) don't bother me and I no longer bother them. So I feel just fine taking a 30-06 or short lever carbine with me while flying out in the sticks, so I can leave my 375HH at home.

theken206
July 25, 2008, 01:06 AM
we have grizz around here all the time so no not for me

poorfolks
July 25, 2008, 06:49 AM
if i had to pick i would say bear. definitely the winner.

karnaaj
July 25, 2008, 10:48 AM
we have grizz around here all the time so no not for me

You might want to let the fish and wildlife service know that. Grizzly Bears are extremely uncommon in Washington.:rolleyes:

Bullet Bob
July 25, 2008, 10:53 AM
"if I had to shoot a bear with it would it get the job done"
____________________________________________________

Really, it depends on where you shoot it. In the right place, the .30-30 is fine. In the wrong place, it really doesn't matter (except for the guy above with the TOW).

Fozzy_Bear
July 25, 2008, 02:11 PM
I agree with Float Pilot.

I have a winchester 30-30 that I got for my 13th birthday (25 years ago). And I have an AR-10 that I just finished (this month) assembling.

The .308 is much better on paper.. more energy, flatter shooting, better sights, MUCH higher capacity. And I'm pretty accurate with it... but I can call my shot like a professional pool player with my birthday gun - even under stress (yes, I do know for sure.). So if I was in genuine fear of harm (again), it's the 30-30 that would be in my hands.

Now, If I was starting over as a young man... I'd spend all those years practicing with the AR; the numbers just don't lie... but that's not to say i regret the time with the Winchester.

And don't let the comment a bout ammo availability go un-noticed. that's important.

TheDriver
July 25, 2008, 02:39 PM
+1 on .35 Rem. A bit harder to find 336s in .35 Rem., though.

theken206
July 25, 2008, 07:12 PM
"You might want to let the fish and wildlife service know that. Grizzly Bears are extremely uncommon in Washington."

not where im at lol, im practicly in canada and they pass right over my neighb's ridge and across part of my meadow

stevereno1
July 25, 2008, 07:44 PM
Are you kidding? Look around here and they'll tell you that the .223 is the end-all-be-all of hunting rounds. Personally, I'd go with a 30-06 with 180 gr. soft points as my minimum.

T.R.
July 25, 2008, 10:45 PM
30-30 with 170 grain soft tip bullet has slain stacks of North American big game for over 100 years. This bear was taken in northern California. 30-30 is a KEEPER!


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/black_bear_pic_.jpg

Shawnee
July 25, 2008, 11:49 PM
Nice try, T.R., but no cigar. Your rifle doesn't have "magnum" written on it and it doesn't have a Schlitz & Bender scope on it so we all know you just sneaked up to a sleeping bear and had your picture taken with it. Shame on you !


:cool:

Meeteetse
July 26, 2008, 06:17 PM
Forty years of hunting in Wyoming and the 30/30 never failed to take elk, deer, antelope and two black bear. The shots have to be more reasonable than with a scoped rifle, but just as effective.

I also have a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag that has filled the meat locker more than once. The Grizzlies in Wyo are not nearly as big as the brownies in Alaska, but bigger than the Wyo black bear. They are protected, but they have been taken by many a rancher with a 30/30 protecting his cows.

I prefer the 30/30 over the .44 in bear country, but I carry both calibers when hunting. 30/30 Winchester and .44 Super Blackhawk.

Shawnee
July 27, 2008, 09:30 AM
For those who like numbers....


.44 magnum handgun with a 240gr. bullet - energy at the muzzle = 970 ft./lbs.

30/30 rifle with 150gr. bullet - energy at 100yds. = 1238 ft./lbs.


I'm pretty certain I could kill a deer or bear or Elk that was sniffing the muzzle of my Super Blackhawk. So 20% more energy at 100yds. sounds pretty effective to me.


;)

stevereno1
July 28, 2008, 08:41 PM
ok, I have been convinced of the game-getting power of the 30-30. I own a nice one that I inherited from my dad. Thanks!

coop4u2c
July 29, 2008, 09:27 AM
:cool:Buffalo Bore has some HOT .30-30 rounds listed but no stock yet.

ashtxsniper
July 29, 2008, 09:36 AM
30-30 will take any bear that walks this continent.

theken206
July 29, 2008, 09:54 AM
doesnt mean I dont want something with more in the butt for one though

MT GUNNY
August 2, 2008, 11:24 PM
LeverEvolution Rounds82455

tcrocker
August 3, 2008, 07:47 PM
30-30, 44mag makes no diference to the bear he'll be just as dead. The bottom line is use what you shoot the best. I have had a lot of guns my self from 458win, 300 Weatherby, 270, 30-06, you get the ideal. but I allways come back to my Marlin 1895 in 45-70. Oh and try to keep your distances in mind most game is taken inside 75yd. I zero my gun for 50yds and will shoot out to 100yds, just to see the inpact piont, but thats just in case. But I never had to shoot it that far to be honest all of by deer were inside 40yds
http://http://thumb3.webshots.net/t/69/469/8/79/12/2425879120103526723OwqsBc_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2425879120103526723OwqsBc)

moooose102
August 4, 2008, 07:19 AM
black bear, no sweat, grizzly, run for your life!!!!! imo, a 458 lott isnt to much gun for a giz!

Cosmoline
August 13, 2008, 05:46 PM
Second hand account of a .30 WCF vs. a large boar brown bear, from a little over a month ago. I did not witness the attack because I bugged out and returned to the land of plumbing a few years ago, but I believe it to be trustworthy:

My former .30-30 Win 94 went to my friend who lives out in the sticks of rural AK. There's been a ton of bear activity in south central this year and she got charged by a brownie boar en route from the outhouse:

> I was charged by a bear behind the outhouse,
> large grizzly, blonde male about 600 to 800 lbs. I had time to only raise
> the 30-30 and pull the trigger. I hit it, it ambled off
>
> it was 15 ft away when I shot it. it was after my puppy. I am
> pretty sure I gut shot it...that was the only available shot I had in the
> 1/2 second I had to shoot
>
> i need a better bear gun, or several, that is for sure

The bear later turned up on a neighbor's property badly injured and was then killed. Now what can we tell from this? She wished she had a larger firearm. But it's unlikely she would have had a big rifle as close as that handy carbine. She does in fact have a number of more powerful firearms including a Mosin and a Mossberg slugster I outfitted expressly for her to use. But these are nowhere near as easy to tote and were yards away in the cabin when the charge took place. That might as well be a light year, so I'm very glad she had that Winnie with her. I'm also not sure anyone would be as fast with a Mosin or a clunky slug gun as with a .30-30 levergun.

Furthermore, I'm not convinced the same gut shot would have killed it instantly from a larger firearm. Brown bears gut shot with a .375 H&H or .338 WM have run off in the same manner and required repeated hits to drop. A larger caliber would have made it die sooner, I suspect. But still not for hours or days unless a killing shot can be delivered before the bear vanishes.

IMHO, the weapon did exactly what it was supposed to. She was OK, the puppy was OK and the bear ran off. Most importantly, the .30 WCF was the gun she HAD. That portability, speed and ease of natural aiming even when getting charged by death incarnate all recommend it as a general purpose woods rifle. That's why our forebears (pun) loved them so much.

Would I recommend it against brown bear? Not particularly, but you could do much worse. The magnum left far away or back home would be a vastly worse choice. Given a choice between a Casull or X-frame, I would go with the Win 94 any day. A Partition 170 is bigger medicine than the ft. lbs. would suggest. And you can't beat the short levergun for speed, balance and natural aiming. Portablity is also a factor. The small size and ease of packing make it a favorite for rough country.

Would I recommend it against BLACK bear? YES. If it can ward off and seriously injure an 800 lb. monster from up here it would be more than enough against the largest black bear.

Fozzy_Bear
August 14, 2008, 09:16 AM
Yeah,

The .380 LCP in your pocket is a whole lot more useful than the .375H&H back at home in your safe.

Of course, the OP was asking about what to take out on a hunting trip, not a walking around his property... so that might not be as relevant.

Kentucky-roughrider
August 14, 2008, 10:01 AM
I had no idea was 30/30 was that useful, I thought it was a whitetail and other similar size game round, only. i didn't know 30/30 was legal for elk, great now I may put in for Kentucky's elk hunt. Just a joke.

Cosmoline
August 14, 2008, 03:11 PM
Of course, the OP was asking about what to take out on a hunting trip, not a walking around his property... so that might not be as relevant.

He was worried about ending up as "bear food."

86thecat
August 14, 2008, 10:50 PM
While 30-30"s have taken every type of game in North America I would like a little more gun for a "problem" bear. If they're not in season it's a lot easier to explain a dead bear with powder burns than one shot 50 feet out. I've chased off black bear at 25 feet when hunting in cammo, they just seemed curious.

chief
August 15, 2008, 12:34 AM
There is a difference between hunting and killing. Hunting is the taking of game that is not eager to participate in the process. Killing occurrs when something is trying to tear you a new one and you take your shot at increasingly closer range. In this situation skill and nerve will be the deciding factor as long as you have a firearm above a certain threshold. At one time a number of guides up north would carry shotguns with buckshot and stop charging dangerous animals at "bad smell" distance. One or two rounds to the head at very close range will do the trick. Personally I would pack extra shorts for use if I survived such an incounter.

Shawnee
August 15, 2008, 07:51 AM
From Cosmoline...

"Would I recommend it against brown bear? Not particularly, but you could do much worse. The magnum left far away or back home would be a vastly worse choice. Given a choice between a Casull or X-frame, I would go with the Win 94 any day. A Partition 170 is bigger medicine than the ft. lbs. would suggest. And you can't beat the short levergun for speed, balance and natural aiming. Portablity is also a factor. The small size and ease of packing make it a favorite for rough country."


BULLSEYE !!


:cool:

plumberroy
August 19, 2008, 01:04 AM
Not too many people go into the woods specifically looking for bear armed with such a weapon. Why take the risk
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Thousands of hunters hunt blackbear every year with a bow

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