Birdshot as HD Ammo?

[Dynasty]

If you had nothing else available at the time of a SHTF or HD situation, would birdshot still be a decent choice to defend yourself and family with?

[RNB65]

This has been discussed ad nauseum. Only as a truly last resort. Birdshot won't penetrate deep enough to stop a determined attacker. It will cause a nasty flesh wound, but won't stop anyone determined to kill you. If the person is high on drugs, they may not even feel the flesh wound.

Always keep a box or two of buckshot around to use as self defense ammo. Preferably, 00 buck.

[Thernlund]

If you live in a small apartment and don't want it going through walls, 7½ will certainly ruin someones day at close range.

After the shot spreads out, it's pretty usless on a man-sized target. But up close, within maybe 10 feet (?), the shot is still close enough together to pretty much be one projectile.

To answer your question a bit more directly though, in the absence of better ammo, bird shot is certainly better than a sharp stick.


-T.

[Al Thompson]

There are better choices - but birdshot can work if the bad guy is close. Beats yelling and trying to buttstroke the bad guy. :)

Best to stock up on some 00 before you need it. Last time I checked, 5 rounds of buckshot was like three bucks at Wal-Mart.

[oneounceload]

at in-home distances, birdshot will do the job....is it the absolute best??..nope, but then you said nothing else available.....better that than a golf club

[Professor Gun]

It is better than:
1) empty shotgun
2) fingernails/fists
3) stuck on the line with the 911 operator
4) baseball bat
5) pepper spray
6) loud command voice
7) hairbrush
8) any 9mm pistol :neener:

My preference would be buckshot from 00 to #4 size, but if all you have is birdshot it is better than a lot of other alternatives.

[Dave McCracken]

Birdshot will work if close enough. So will buck.

Close enough with bird shot is a few feet.

With buck it may be 25 yards.

It's not possible to predict the distance of our next firefight.

I'll stick with 00.....

[big_bang]

Within the confines of most interior home rooms it'll do just fine (5yds or less).

[BAT1]

Just rack it and aim downstairs on him. Shoot him and butt stock him.

[Steve C]

Plenty of people killed with bird shot every year at in house distances. Larger the shot the better. #4's would be better than 71/2. I've seen lead BB kill a coyote at 80 yds from a modified choke. The hevi shot and "Dead Coyote" stuff should be quite effective with its better penetration but its more expensive than buckshot.

[foghornl]

If you find yourself in a 1960's Alfred Hitchcock movie, sure Birdshot is fine.

Otherwise, my HomeLand Security Shotgun is stoked w/#4 BUCKshot

[Floppy_D]

My buddy's dad had someone break into his barn, with the intention of stealing something. He met the guy at the barn door with 2 loads of birdshot, probably 10 yds away. The guy managed to run the quarter mile to the road and get a half mile before the police picked him up. It tore him up, but he lived.

[Mossberg535]

Birdshot as HD Ammo?
If you had nothing else available at the time of a SHTF or HD situation, would birdshot still be a decent choice to defend yourself and family with?
IF you dont have anything else, something is better than nothing.

Personally tho, I feel that #4 shot would do the job close range.

My uncle was shot in the abdomen with bird shot from a single 12g shotgun blast and he got lucky that the shot placement and the angle was so poor so that it didnt hit any major organs.
He has a crater in his stomach that you can fit your fist in.

if the shot had been buckshot tho and the penetration had been more he may have died.

My opinion is that you should use the biggest shot you can get and use with reasonable certainty that you arent going to kill a neighbor if you miss.
The 000's magnums I have in my 12 ga make me a bit nervous since I live in town and in an apt building. I am the only one on my floor and Im on the top floor (one apt per floor), so as long as I dont shoot down hopefully I dont hit anyone :D

[Mossberg535]

To answer your question a bit more directly though, in the absence of better ammo, bird shot is certainly better than a sharp stick.or harsh language :D

[RyanM]

Let me quote a thing from the most recent Mossberg magazine (it was included with a scope mount I bought from 'em)...

Some may offer that a load of birdshot with hundreds of pellets is a good load for "close quarters shooting." One ounce of #8 lead shot contains roughly 410 pellets, the equivalent load of #7 1/2 shot has slightly less. Yes, a load of birdshot is very loud and a contact shot would be devastating with the burning propellant gas doing a good amount of damage. However, a loud noise doesn't stop deadly felons and a contact shot is not something we can count on.

To test and see just how much penetration I could get from a birdshot load I went to my local grocery and purchased some meat. Fortunately, the butcher had packages of pork neck with bones and meat for a good price. (I couldn't bring myself to shoot up a nice piece of steak).

The meat target I created was secured in place with cellophane wrap on a cardboard backing. The density of the meat varied from 1.5 to 2 inches with bone mixed in. From a distance of 5 feet I fired a single round of #7 1/2 birdshot. The force split the cardboard and knocked the target over. Upon closer inspection I discovered that the meat had completely absorbed the majority of the shot. A few tiny pellets punched through the cardboard around the meat but none passed through.

What does this translate to?
At near contact range, a mere 5 feet, the #7 1/2 lead shot did not have the power to penetrate two inches of flesh. There is no way the shot would have reached deep inside an animal or human to shut down the heart, lungs, or central nervous system. Surely the wound would be horrible, but self-defense is not about inflicting horrible wounds, it is about stopping the bad guy from killing us.

I would prefer a sharp stick. At least a sharp stick would penetrate more than 2 inches from 5 feet away.

[SN13]

If someone breaks into your house, and you pepper them with bird shot on the first 2 shots, and they KEEP coming? Make sure your third shot is Buckshot... if they STILL come, give em a slug... if they are STILL coming, load up specialty rounds like Wooden stakes and Silver bullets... the guy must be a monster.

[Mossberg535]

Honestly, if I were to use birdshot, and maybe it sounds bad, but Im not shooting for the guys midsection.
If I had to use smaller shot for whatever reason, Im unloading it in the guys face and neck where its less likely the damage is going to go unnoticed.

[SimpleIsGood229]

A shotgun loaded with birdshot beats an empty shotgun. ;)

[Bartkowski]

Would it work as a last resort? Yes, at close ranges. Even 7.5 shot will kill from one side of a room to another(assuming you don't have huge rooms).

And I imagine a turkey load with #4 shot or #5 would be alright. Still best with buck though.

[Matt-J2]

It's not possible to predict the distance of our next firefight.

I'll somewhat agree with that, as I can guarantee what distances will be dealt with in defense of my home.(9yds, tops, and it's one hell of an odd shot)

[Thernlund]

If someone breaks into your house, and you pepper them with bird shot on the first 2 shots, and they KEEP coming? Make sure your third shot is Buckshot... if they STILL come, give em a slug... if they are STILL coming...

Toss a grenade at him. Still coming? Give up. Someone up high has picked your number.


-T.

[camslam]

I thought I would add my agreement to the rest of the group and add one more item.

If it is all you have, use it. However, consider yourself warned to get something better. Those that talk about it being effective at close ranges, that is iffy.

The Trolley Square shooting that happened a little over a year ago in Utah was a good example. This guy was shooting people at "point blank range" with a 12 gauge and birdshot. Speaking only of the ballistics, only half the people died. One guy was shot at point blank range, he kept walking to a restaurant, went in the front door, warned people to barricade the door, and then had a trip to the hospital where he had 80+ pellets in him, as seen on the x-rays. He made a full recovery.

Birdshot will probably scare someone and for sure will give them a bad day if shot by it, but I'm with most of the other posters, when you are talking home defense and an intruder, I'm looking to eliminate the threat.

[RandyB]

If birdshot was all that I had available, thats what I would use. Opting for the largest shot possible. On occasion I have loaded the 1st round of my shotgun with BB sized shot when I had vermin getting into my trash at the house, but as time goes on, I decided that buckshot (#1's) or larger is the way to go.

[NG VI]

I've got some excellent Fiocchi reduced recoil 9 pellet 00 Buck, and some Winchester Military Grade (whatever that means, maybe contract shells?) 9 pellet 00 Buck that I think my Persuader is going to be just fine with. And JE223 just posted some #7.5 shot gelatin tests, absolutely pathetic penetration. If I were ever unfortunate enough to need my shotgun for defense with only birdshot available, I would try to strip away all the attacker's muscle, without a functional pectoral I think my odds of beating him into submission would be far better.

[HB]

I've seen lead BB kill a coyote at 80 yds from a modified choke

80 yards is a little far, but BB is pretty big, almost in the buckshot range. One of the best coyote rounds.

Buy some buck

[riverdog]

Or use a long barrel and shoot at contact range. Along with the bird shot hitting as a unit, you would get the hot gas too and that may increase the lethality.

Better, just buy a few boxes of buckshot. Consider #4 Buck as a minimum, #1 Buck as optimum and 00 Buck as the standard.

[Flopsy]

I keep 2 turkey loads at the front of my 7 round mag. I like having the option.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

Its never a good choice unless you are hunting birds. There is plenty of resources out there that explain why, and I will personally never use a substandard load when death is the alternative.

[bleachcola]

If the doctor doesn't get all the pellets out then the bad guy could die of lead poisoning perhaps. Or at least become sterile.

[bleachcola]

But as mentioned before, shoot him in the face. You don't need much penetration on an eyeball before it become useless. Probably won't kill the guy but he'll stop what he's doing and become the ugliest bastard on his block.

[conwict]

I know a couple of people who have survived being shot with birdshot from a 12 ga and it didn't even stop them from what they were doing. Which, luckily for the aggressor, was not attempting to kill the person shooting them.

One was accidental, another guy got shot twice, once in the side and once in the back by some vengeful acquaintances.

[357wheelgunner]

I keep a few hundred rounds of birdshot in my rangebag in case I end up shooting soda cans and whatnot at a buddy's house. Before we even head home, the birdshot is placed back into the range bag where it belongs, and the shotguns are loaded up with 00 buckshot in the magazine, and reduced recoil slugs in the buttcuff.

[JE223]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=381023