Testing the Razor (belt) sword


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JShirley
July 24, 2008, 05:00 PM
I met Curt Koehler at the Augusta airport today, and we drove to Statesboro, so Derek could take pictures.

You will get much more detail later, but for now:

The beltswords are very fast. Presentation time rivals CCW, and may better it;
Sharpened swords make clean cuts on filled water bottles;
Unopened plastic water bottles can take multiple hits on hard surfaces without rupturing (I TOLD y'all);
I need to lose some fat.

More later, including testing on tougher targets.

Peace,

John

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Derek Zeanah
July 24, 2008, 05:13 PM
Kurt's faster with a sword than John is with a 1911:

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4591.jpg



It slices OK:

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4531.jpg

It's even concealable:


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4583.jpg

JShirley
July 24, 2008, 05:19 PM
The unsharpened belt swords will not rupture filled 2 liter water bottles, even when struck very firmly, though they are still pointy enough to stab with.

Sharpened belt swords cut bottles cleanly.

I used my favorite 16.5" HI WWII kukuri as my control. It cuts good:


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4526.jpg

The much thicker edge deforms the bottle considerably more than the thinner razor sword.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4529.jpg

vicdotcom
July 24, 2008, 05:31 PM
How do you sit down with that belt sword on! And can you draw it when in a seated position? Like in a car?

Love the Kukuri though. One of my favorite blade designs.

JShirley
July 24, 2008, 06:03 PM
You really don't feel the belt sword much. It's like a stiff belt. As far as seated, that's a good question.

...yes, it can be drawn seated. However, it can't be presented as fast.

Skofnung
July 24, 2008, 06:18 PM
I've been looking forward to this review.

Thanks for putting this together guys.

Zoogster
July 24, 2008, 06:50 PM
Sometimes Mall Ninja gear works well. :neener:

It is good that you gave the individual's product a fair and accurate trial and assessment.
It appears to work okay.
Certainly not as good as an actual rigid sword, but a capable effective weapon just the same which has the advantage of being concealed and not much of a burden to carry.


I do believe however that this product will be illegal in more locations than even a firearm. Dirk and dagger laws, especialy regarding concealed ones are widespread (though since the case is visible and technicaly it is worn in a "scabbard" on the belt it might not really be concealed).
So are laws on various blade lengths in many states.
People have long defended firearms, but there is not as widespread of an effort to defend other weapons, and as a result many are even more severely illegal or restricted.


It appears to be a worthy product, but the market for such a product has been limited by widespread legislation.

JShirley
July 24, 2008, 09:20 PM
We'll do more testing tomorrow.

Simulated tissue and bone. :evil:

RyanM
July 24, 2008, 10:00 PM
Going to do any tests to see if it'll take a set while bent over a long time? I just noticed that my $8 Wal-Mart machete has taken a small set just from lying on its side underneath some junk. Quality steel it ain't.

Eleven Mike
July 24, 2008, 10:22 PM
The manufacturer should feel honored to get this review, considering the major blunders he made in marketing.

Geronimo45
July 24, 2008, 11:00 PM
I made some disparging remarks on this gadget a while back... it appears I was an idiot, and I apologize. That gadget appears to be of good quality. I'll be waiting to hear further results.

JShirley
July 24, 2008, 11:16 PM
Okay, from the top.

Curt (http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/_DSF4538_large.html) seemed like a decent guy when we spoke on the phone, and that's just how he is in person. He likes guns and stuff: he's one of us.

The beltsword has a flexible scabbard built in, rather like scales on a snake. The sword fits on the body side of the belt. To present the sword, pull up slightly on the belt with nondominant hand. The handle end of the sword will spring forward. Grasp and pull with dominant hand.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4587.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4588.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4589.jpg

The sword is completely invisible while in the belt.

The sword feels flimsy, but when sharpened, is effective. It certainly cleanly cuts filled 2 liter water bottles. The unsharpened belt sword did not rupture a bottle, but suffered no damage despite several very hard strikes. Here's a picture of me whacking the hell out of a bottle with an unsharpened sword.


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4543.jpg

You can see the extreme angle the sword is taking after contacting the bottle. No bending was apparent after the hit.

I then tried to pierce the bottle with a tsuki thrust.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4552.jpg


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4553.jpg

I was able to make several more thrusts despite lessening resistance as the bottle drained.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4556.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4557.jpg




I love my kukuri, but the belt sword is more concealable and has quite a bit of reach on it.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4559.jpg

More testing in the AM.

Seeing the sword being pulled out is quite an experience. It's really hard to believe until you see it.

Byron Quick
July 24, 2008, 11:27 PM
I just got here in time to see a couple of presentations of the belt sword...had to work last night. The belt sword is impressive. It won't take the place of a traditional sword. It's probably illegal most places. An impressive amount of research and innovation.

It's an impressive covert weapon which has the potential to be devastating as a last ditch weapon.

Tom Krein
July 25, 2008, 01:49 AM
John,
Good review!

I look forward to the rest of it!

Tom

Rupestris
July 25, 2008, 09:49 AM
STATESBORO?!?!

I'll be there sometime around the 19th. I got relatives in Metter and Portal.

Thanks for the review.

Chris

Devonai
July 25, 2008, 12:04 PM
Thank you very much for taking the time to demonstrate this weapon. It is interesting.

I am still extremely dubious about Mr. Koehler's claim that the sharpened version can rival a properly-forged daito.

Frizzman
July 25, 2008, 12:12 PM
Looks pretty interesting but if you carried it around here and got caught, charges would likely ensue. It is dumb I guess But I can legally carry all the handguns I want of any type concealed on my person, but a sword cane for example, could get me charged with a violation of concealed weapons statutes

fletcher
July 25, 2008, 12:21 PM
Interesting review. The demo videos still make me laugh, but I share Byron's sentiments about it:

It's an impressive covert weapon which has the potential to be devastating as a last ditch weapon.

JShirley
July 25, 2008, 01:38 PM
Guys, I have to get Curt back to the airport in time.

We spent a good bit of time today setting up bamboo, wrapped in a mat, covered by cloth, and then cutting it.

In a nutshell: the heavier, sharpened version of the razor sword really does provide 75% of the cutting capability of a Paul Chen katana. No bull.

Penetration in plywood is something else. In plywood, because of the denser material, lighter version do even better than heavier, thicker versions. Since we will probably never be attacked by plywood, I don't think that a big deal.

Here is a picture of a one-handed strike into plywood with the unsharpened side of the .042" thick Razor Sword.*
http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4661.jpg

*In the interests of full disclosure, I should note that Curt appears to be extremely strong for his size, so the fact that he could do this one-handed might be equal to two hands for many of you. :neener:

John

Devonai
July 25, 2008, 01:47 PM
75%? But I need my bisections to be 100%! :P

It sounds intriguing. However, if they're not banned in Connecticut, they will be as soon as they come to the attention of the pols or big-city cops.

hso
July 25, 2008, 02:38 PM
When the purple prose is washed out of the story it looks like the Razor Sword performs well as a concealed/covert weapon.

In states that use weapons permits instead of handgun permits carrying it wouldn't be a violation of the law for the permit holder.

Joe Demko
July 25, 2008, 03:45 PM
It strikes me that some of our members here are having crow for dinner tonight...maybe with a little slab of humble pie for dessert. IMO, it'd be a nice gesture for some folks to man up and apologize to Curt; even if only by PM (though you did insult his product publicly).

armoredman
July 25, 2008, 03:52 PM
Legal in AZ...would REALLY drive a metal detector nuts!

DFW1911
July 25, 2008, 04:02 PM
It strikes me that some of our members here are having crow for dinner tonight...maybe with a little slab of humble pie for dessert.

I'm one :o.

I basically dismissed this outright after watching the demos on their site.

The fact that someone can draw and thrust (most likely faster than I can draw and fire) is more than a bit disconcerting.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the review: great work so far.

Take care,
DFW1911

TimboKhan
July 25, 2008, 08:29 PM
Well, I still think his website was silly and full of goofy hyperbole, but I will eat my words about the product. I guess it just goes to show that one does not necessarily reflect the other.

Seriously though, if this is a good product, and if Curt is a decent guy, why don't we High Road up and help him figure out a way to present his product in a reasonable, non mall-ninjaish way, preferably one that doesn't include nipple shots of the models and mentions of Green Beret testing. In order to atone for my earlier mocking, I would be willing to donate some of my writing skills, and maybe we could get someone else to throw in some tps on how to redesign.

JShirley
July 25, 2008, 09:03 PM
Well, as you can see from my skewering of a water bottle, the razor sword can thrust, but I would prefer to slash or chop with it. I should have more up before 2200 EST.

J

seeker_two
July 25, 2008, 11:38 PM
Nice to know it works better than advertised..... :D

....too bad it's illegal to carry in Texas.... :mad:

....and that I'd give myself unintentional liposuction if I tried drawing it... :what:

JShirley
July 25, 2008, 11:54 PM
Water bottles are standard fare, but I really wanted to test the Razor Sword against something that would give a good simulation of hitting human tissue and bone. Eventually we decided on green bamboo, topped by a layer of nonskid matting. This was covered by cloth to simulate clothing, and these layers were taped at the tops and bottoms.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4606.jpg


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4609.jpg

The bamboo was held by rope at the top and bottom, with a weight attached to the bottom to give some resistance. After some practice cuts with sharpened thin and thick Razor Swords, my WWII, and a Paul Chen Musashi katana, the kukuri was removed from testing, as it was easily least effective against this combination.

My WWII kukuri only did this:

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4629.jpg

Byron with Musashi katana.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4615.jpg

This was tough stuff.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4622.jpg

It is impossible to be completely scientific with testing like this, but an attempt was made to eliminate as many variables as possible.
A single individual made all cuts;
An equal length of cloth and matting was used for each target;
The same style cut, a traditional diagonal cut executed with both hands, was used on every strike. The longest side of each cut was measured.

The 32" .042 Razor Sword made a 1 1/4" cut in the bamboo.
http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4650.jpg


The 33.5" .064 Razor Sword made a 1 1/2" cut in the bamboo.
http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4652.jpg


The Paul Chen katana made a 1 7/8" cut in the bamboo.
http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4655.jpg

To put this in perspective, a postal scale was used to weigh the swords. The small RS weighs 10.4 oz. The larger RS weighs 14.5 oz. The Paul Chen weighs 47.4 oz.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4673.jpg

Testing is not finished. Byron and I will continue to evaluate these for several weeks, and report back on satisfaction after that time. For now, I can make some conclusions.

1. This is not a gimmick. It works.
2. These are strong. Use common sense, but these are not cheap Taiwanese stainless flea market ninja swords.
3. Practice with unsharpened versions before putting an edge on one (10 minutes with a grinder). If you just want to practice with one, you may never need to put an edge on it. I think you could still stop an aggressor with a temple strike or hit to a forearm with an unsharpened RS.
4. This is a bargain. Get 'em while they're cheap (http://beltswords.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1). I believe Curt is undercharging by about 40% currently. Don't expect something that looks like a work of art, but expect something cool, completely unique, and fun to practice with. I would personally go for around a 32" blade.


Peace,

J

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4564.jpg

Al Thompson
July 26, 2008, 03:27 AM
!! Be careful when you go to the web site - the video section is adult in nature.

Soap
July 26, 2008, 10:04 AM
Cool review!

But how can the blade be that flexible yet still hold any kind of edge?

Mongrel
July 26, 2008, 10:32 AM
But how can the blade be that flexible yet still hold any kind of edge?

I believe the purpose would be as a one-time use or one incident use weapon. If the sword were retained after the encounter it could be resharpened. If it were used and 'dumped' after escape it wouldn't matter anyway.

This is not something you take camping to cut firewood....

VERY nice review guys...

Eleven Mike
July 26, 2008, 10:41 AM
This is not something you take camping to cut firewood....

Aw, shucks. And I was all ready to sneak up and surprise that oak tree. ;)

Derek Zeanah
July 26, 2008, 10:42 AM
You'd be surprised at how flexible this thing is:

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4657.jpg

SeanSw
July 26, 2008, 10:56 AM
I was never a naysayer and am glad to see objective testing. I have done a large amount of cutting with swords, from professional reproductions to homemade blades filed out of scrap metal, and the belt sword appears to be as functional as it has any right to be. There is going to be an obvious loss of performance with a thin flexible blade capable of wrapping around your midsection. The idea could go wrong very easily but he razor belt sword looks like the real deal compared to other covert weapon gimmicks. The marketing jargon is a little X-TREME but two feet of sharp flexible steel will never be a joke. Who was expecting it to cleave limbs and cut oaks in half?

If I didn't expect a judge to hang me on the spot for using one, my order would be in the mail.

JShirley
July 26, 2008, 11:04 AM
Pic of grinding.

(I don't know how much time Curt's spent on a grinding wheel, but this part is really easy if you know what you're doing. It doesn't need a classical razor sharp edge.)

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4598.jpg

JShirley
July 26, 2008, 11:45 AM
The Razor Swords are tougher than you might think. I wouldn't expect the edge of one to hold up for long if chopping firewood, but would think it would fare as well as a machete against lighter materials.

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4666.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4638.jpg

The .064 RS performed surprisingly well.


http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4640.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4641.jpg

http://john.photodelivery.dynalias.com/beltsword/content/bin/images/large/_DSF4643.jpg

I would like to thank Derek for working so hard taking pictures and putting these up. Thanks to Byron for driving out to Statesboro to help with the testing, and for collecting the bamboo we used for the tests. Derek, please extend my great thanks to Philip for his help, as well. :)

Brian Dale
July 26, 2008, 04:12 PM
Thank you, John, for embarking on such a detailed, extensive testing program and for posting such a clear report. Derek and Byron, thanks for your work on this, too.

Curt, you've gone the extra mile and then some in your efforts to substantiate the claims that you have made for your product. Kudos to you, Sir, for being a stand-up guy about all of this.

I was one of the members taking cheap shots at Curt's advertising last month. I'm having hoisin sauce and some sliced radishes with my large helping of crow. :)

Again, guys: thanks.

RyanM
July 26, 2008, 04:31 PM
4. This is a bargain. Get 'em while they're cheap. I believe Curt is undercharging by about 40% currently. Don't expect something that looks like a work of art, but expect something cool, completely unique, and fun to practice with. I would personally go for around a 32" blade.

Did the price go down, or did I misread it the first time? I seem to remember the belt swords being $150 apiece, plus the belt and stuff. Not $150 for the belt with two of them!

JShirley
July 26, 2008, 04:37 PM
I don't know. I am at work today, and I showed a fellow employee (an engineer who's a "gun guy") the swords. His first response was Cool!

He then picked one up, and said (this IS Georgia) These don't weigh nothin'! He agreed they would do a number on anyone they were used against.

Byron laughingly suggested that the Razor Sword would never be detected unless the wearer did something else to end up in jail, and was forced to give up their belt. :)

John

Owen
July 26, 2008, 05:26 PM
too flexible to parry with the flat?

JShirley
July 26, 2008, 05:33 PM
Well, it depends on how you mean that. You couldn't block with the flat, but you could parry with the edge or spine, unless you're being attacked with a full sized sword or a spear. You could also slap an aggressor silly with the flat.

J

Cosmoline
July 26, 2008, 06:00 PM
I like the flexible, concealable nature of the thing. But what about fingers, arms, and other *IMPORTANT ITEMS* that may be caught up in a tangle if the draw goes awry? Have there been any problems in this regard?

JShirley
July 26, 2008, 06:01 PM
Well, the blade is funneled because of how it's loaded in the belt. It's not just going to somehow go everywhere, it has to follow the track.

I'll be playing with these extensively for a few weeks, so I'll report back in if I lose anything I consider vital. ;)

Or, even think this is a major issue. :)

Cosmoline
July 26, 2008, 06:06 PM
I also wonder about guys with pot bellies. Is the blade side on the bottom of the belt when it's drawn? Otherwise I could see some individual with the dreaded dunlap's disease gutting himself on a rapid draw.

Byron Quick
July 26, 2008, 06:23 PM
The blade should be in the down position. It can be in the upwards position, though. It's the user's responsibility to insert it in the correct position to avoid possibly gutting himself.

The thing is very concealable and yet very fast to draw.

Also, folks, Curt is VERY fast with this thing. If he's that fast drawing a pistol, few would beat him in presenting a pistol.

The way the tracks on the inner surface of the belt are arranged, the user won't be in danger from a screwed up draw unless he manages to get his hands against the edge somehow. This is easily prevented by practice with the weapon.

Matt G
July 27, 2008, 02:07 AM
Intriguing. Here in Texas, it wouldn't be legal (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.010.00.000046.00.htm#46.02.00)to carry unless you were in your car, driving, walking to or from your car, or on your own property. (Swords fall under the definition of "illegal knife.")

JShirley
July 27, 2008, 02:09 AM
Matt, what if it weren't sharpened? Especially if it didn't even have a sharp tip?

Matt G
July 27, 2008, 03:00 AM
To my reading, it would still be a "dagger, including but not limited to a dirk,
stiletto, and poniard", wouldn't it? Or a spear?

Actually, the Texas penal code doesn't distinguish between sharpened and unsharpened swords.

Edit: I note that you mention an unsharpened tip. I had noticed that your unsharpened sword thrust right through the bottle. (great pic, BTW, Derek!) If it were unsharpened, and had not tip, then... what the hell is it???

Byron Quick
July 27, 2008, 07:33 AM
It's a long flexible piece of steel. It would take a hell of a prosecutor to convince a jury that something with no edge or tip is a knife, dagger, poniard, or sword.

Even with no edge or tip you could still knock the teetotal hell out of someone by slapping them upside the head with it. Probably inflict an impressive pressure cut, too.

I'd rather have a pistol by all means. If I couldn't have a pistol, I'd rather have one of these-even non sharpened and no tip-than pepper spray or a folding knife.

hso
July 27, 2008, 09:07 AM
Byron,

I beg to differ that a prosecutor wouldn't have any trouble getting a conviction for a dagger/sword. They get them for screw drivers all the time convincing juries that the screw driver was used as a thrusting weapon, i.e. a dagger. The Razor Sword has advertising and discussion of the very application as a dagger, where screw drivers don't get advertised as having that application.

One of the benefits of reading Blade Magazine every month is going through the legal article and sitting in amazement of what prosecutors get juries to believe (but then, they juries aren't full of folks that read Blade or Knives Illustrated or Tactical Knives).

JShirley
July 27, 2008, 11:14 AM
Well, as I was headed back to Augusta, it occurred to me that a version of this without a pointed tip- would still be extremely effective for SD and probably legal in many more places.

It would be called something other than "Razor Sword". I called Curt and suggested it to him.

I would tend to think it would legally be a flail or whip.

John

Zoogster
July 27, 2008, 02:14 PM
it occurred to me that a version of this without a pointed tip- would still be extremely effective for SD and probably legal in many more places.
In CA under state law (many locations have various more restrictive local ordinances) any size blade can be carried openly. Folders concealed.
Batons or flails and other blunt instruments are illegal felonies, but if it has a blade then it is legal.

If it is concealed then a fixed blade is only illegal if it is usable as a stabbing instrument. For that reason it is technicaly legal to carry a concealed flat tipped machete/cleaver or hatchet/axe etc in CA, but a wooden stick with a handle (or a concealed screwdriver carried as a weapon) is a felony.

So under CA law you would actualy want to insure it was sharpened so it would qualify as a legal blade rather than an illegal sap, billy etc blunt instrument.


Further, with a setup that the handle was visible, if not tucked under a shirt, it is arguably a legal sheath or scabbard on a belt, just horizontal rather than vertical. So with a tucked in shirt this thing could be legal as long as it is sharpened.
Since any fixed blade, even a stabbing instrument, can be carried openly from the belt in CA it could be legal if the sheath or scabbard was not concealed. Then it is technicaly just a blade carried in an open legal manner.
(Though I would not want to be the one depending on that court case to prevail, especialy since the marketing is that of a concealed weapon, even if legaly it is not concealed under the law.)

Sometimes it is amazing how much the law can contradict common sense. Giant broadsword that can cut a man in half? Legal per state law carried openly. Remove the blade and attach a wooden dowel to the hilt? Felony.

Be sure to know your laws.

JShirley
July 27, 2008, 02:31 PM
Good information, thanks. :)

Zoogster
July 27, 2008, 02:34 PM
Don't expect the average street cop to know that though. Just like technicaly it is legal to carry a pistol openly if it is unloaded even with ammunition on your person.
Yet even someone on this forum posted about being arrested and is now dealing with resulting charges of legaly carrying an unloaded firearm.

JShirley
July 27, 2008, 02:59 PM
Might not be a bad idea for those who do something that LEO might not be aware if legal to keep a copy of applicable law with them.

hso
July 27, 2008, 08:44 PM
Keeping a copy of the law may or may not do you any good (I do, but then I want every chance I can get.) since the LEO may not be receptive and simply default to letting the DA decide the finer points of the law. If you have something "unusual" it is always a good idea to have corroborating documentation of your explanation since LEO A may be motivated to consult with LEO Sergeant who may advise LEO A to uncuff you and turn you loose (much cheaper than having to post bond and then have the DA drop the charges).

RazorMan
July 28, 2008, 06:40 PM
I am in the middle of a lot of work so please excuse my short reply for now.

First I am humbled by people like, John, Derek, Byron, and Phillip (the Father-in-Law) that actually took time from their busy schedule to meet me and test the BeltSword system.

I harbor no resentment from the initial comments posted on THR as I certainly deserved the questioning. I am a better man for the experience.

Below: Answers to some comments posted!

First, I agree that I am very fortunate and lucky to have the opportunity to have an independent third party evaluate the BeltSword System. This does not happen often.

Second, the ability of the RazorSword to hold a near razor sharp edge should be rather good. The reason is the hardness of the 1075 high carbon steel of a HRC 54-57; that is as hard as the Kabar knife. Flexibility should not affect the ability to hold an edge. In the future the larger heavier RazorSwords will be made of 1095 high carbon spring steel.

Third, the offer to have person(s) help with suggestion with my web site is welcome. Please be patient as time and money is at a premium…it will take time to effect changes.

Again I wish to thank everyone that participated in this adventure. I will keep in touch with John and give him any additional information that he may request.

Thanks, Curtis W. Koehler “RazorMan”

JShirley
July 29, 2008, 11:13 PM
Guys,

Curt has forwarded some emails to me. I can't say who it was specifically, but he has at least been requested to demonstrate his products to some Special Operations Guys and by a state attorney general, for potential use by their narcotics guys who might be subject to a pat-down.

John

Valkman
July 29, 2008, 11:34 PM
Good for him. I don't think his product is for me BUT I know how hard it is to bring your ideas (dreams) to life, and then convince others it's a good product. Anyone observing this thread that wants to sell something can learn a lot about how your presentation can adversly affect people's initial impression - and it had nothing to do if the thing even worked!

I hope he sells a miliion of 'em. :)

JShirley
July 29, 2008, 11:53 PM
Well, it does seem like a gimmick, but it works.

Curt plans to make wider as well as thicker blades, but I think there will be diminishing returns on very wide blades. I don't think most people will want to go with wider loops than than those commonly found on jeans, when the standard width belt swords will already bite deeply enough to stop a threat with one good cut.

J

Brian Dale
July 30, 2008, 12:36 AM
John, you wrote,You really don't feel the belt sword much. It's like a stiff belt.

If it's been mentioned, I mised it: is it easy to wear a carry holster on the belt system? Does the RazorSword setup have the attributes that are important in a good, sturdy gun belt? Would a pistol holster interfere with drawing the sword?

JShirley
July 30, 2008, 03:03 AM
Brian, that testing can be next.

My initial response would be that it would depend on where you mount the holster, but let me play with it, and see. I have several Razor Swords here, and should be getting a belt sized to fit me in a few days.

John

Novus Collectus
August 2, 2008, 12:59 AM
In states that use weapons permits instead of handgun permits carrying it wouldn't be a violation of the law for the permit holder.Just wanted to add, I think some states call them handgun permits but make exemptions from the concealed weapons laws if someone has one. MD is one of those states where it is called a handgun permit, but any weapon (besides maybe full auto firearms) can be concealed with the permit.

JShirley
August 3, 2008, 12:59 AM
Again, be warned that the video section (http://beltswords.com/shop/index.php?main_page=page_3&zenid=108568a0fb37d7c5adca9bdfacfec355)is considered Not Safe For Work (NSFW).

If you follow the link, and then look on the lower right hand side, the "Load Razor Sword" and "Close-up Deployment" links will let members see how the sword is loaded/slid into the tracks or segments and presented.

J

redneckrepairs
August 3, 2008, 01:19 AM
Good to read the review. As i stated on the original thread about this i dont feel that its anything i am interested in owning , but i do wish the inventor success with his business.

John C
October 11, 2008, 11:27 PM
Sorry to dredge up this thread, but why do the razor swords come dull? For safety? And, can you sharpen them up and wear them normally? Or do they need to be dull to keep in the belt?

Thanks,

-John

JShirley
October 11, 2008, 11:32 PM
John,

I apologize for not following up with more information. The dullness is chiefly a liability issue. Yes, they can be sharpened quickly on a grinder, and carried in the belt since the sword rides on "tracks" (small segments). I would suggest practice with a dull version first.


With a little more time on the system, I can tell you that people really need to try these out before deciding they're going to carry the largest model! Every "body" is different, and this is definitely not a one-size fits all tool.

red headed stranger
October 12, 2008, 02:30 PM
I bet this sword would be well liked by those who study Escrima.

RyanM
October 12, 2008, 03:16 PM
Hm. It looks like these things are absolutely impossible to safely sheath without taking the belt off. Is that correct?

JShirley
October 12, 2008, 03:34 PM
That's correct. Then again, you're only going to pull it out in a life and death situation, so I don't see that as a major challenge.

Fleataxi
May 27, 2009, 01:43 AM
JS: Not to be a smartass, but I wonder how the razor sword would stack up against a real short sword, bayonet, or large knife like a Kukhri?

My guess is not too well, so this might be a good last-ditch self-defense weapon for H2H, but against someone wielding a large knife or short sword, I don't think it would work too hot.

IMHO, its best feature is also its worst drawback - it's too flexible.

Fleataxi

Arbor
May 27, 2009, 02:26 AM
Most stabbings occur with small knives, not swords or large knives. This seems like it would work in that situation.

hso
May 27, 2009, 04:32 PM
Haven't seen too many short sword attacks lately so I'm not too sure that I'd worry about putting it up against a "real" sword.

JShirley
May 27, 2009, 06:50 PM
Fleataxi: not to be a smartass, but did you read the first half of this thread? That was kind of the whole point of most of the testing.




...but if you're unable to decipher pictures, the Razor Sword has range over any kukuri or bayonet, and...no, dammit. Look at the pictures. You can "kinda" see what it's capable of. :rolleyes:

DAVIDSDIVAD
May 28, 2009, 04:04 AM
I see the scantily clad young lady is missing from his website.


Good choice, Curt; it really adds to your credibility

JShirley
May 28, 2009, 12:01 PM
Curt will be at BLADE. Thousands of real-deal knife enthusiasts able to see the thing in person. :)

J

hso
May 28, 2009, 04:31 PM
That's almost enough reason to drive down to Atlanta alone.

JShirley
May 28, 2009, 04:35 PM
You talking to me?

Funds are still scarce, bro. I have a good friend who's way behind that I've been helping, I'm still catching up from not getting paid during the fall because of my internship, I've only seen my family for two days in the last two years so REALLY need to see them, and I have a divorce to fund...

Joe Demko
May 28, 2009, 07:26 PM
Those divorces'll eat a fella alive. Been there a couple-three times myself.

DAVIDSDIVAD
May 29, 2009, 09:35 PM
Time and a place.

The rest of us fragile minded people will continue to be unphased by flashing lights and big breasts.

Black Toe Knives
June 1, 2009, 04:54 AM
I seen it at Blade. This Sword is far from a toy. It would cut in you half before you knew what happened. I am not usually impressed
I have seen hundreds of thousands of knives. This was one of my favorites of Blade.

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