They still hang people in Japan!


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Quartus
August 29, 2003, 04:02 PM
I didn't know there were any "civilised" nations that still allowed this 'barbaric' practice in this enlightened age!

"Killer of eight children to hang" (http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/29/wtak29.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/08/29/ixworld.html/news/2003/08/29/wtak29.xml)

A Japanese court yesterday sentenced to death a man who killed eight children in a frenzied knife attack at a primary school two years ago.

Takuma has refused to apologise to the families of the victims, though an apology was viewed as his only chance to escape the death penalty.




I have no doubt that this sentence (if carried out) will 100% GUARANTEE that he will never do this again.

That works for me.

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PeteyPete
August 29, 2003, 04:11 PM
The Europeans are always screaming bloody murder about capital punishment both here in the US and Japan. The Japanese use of capital punishment gets less press however due to the fact that they rarely have to use it.

lapidator
August 29, 2003, 04:14 PM
Yeah, well we still strangle and beat to death child-molesting priests here in the Commonwealth.


:fire:

lapidator

El Tejon
August 29, 2003, 04:22 PM
But how can one commit murder without a gun?:rolleyes:

Jim March
August 29, 2003, 04:45 PM
Huh.

That's odd.

The rumors I heard was that they're *not* well hung.

:neener:

4v50 Gary
August 29, 2003, 04:56 PM
Not to discuss anatomy with you Jim, but there's a distinction between swinging from one's neck and the other extreme. In the former, it results in rehabilitation through reincarnation. As for the latter, no comment is necessary.

geekWithA.45
August 29, 2003, 04:56 PM
An article I read a few years ago indicates that the condemned is not given much advanced warning. Basically, they tell him in the morning that he will be hung later that day, typically in the afternoon. The family isn't alerted until after the fact.

And there are a few states that still allow hanging. I recall a hanging in Delaware in the early 90's.

CWL
August 29, 2003, 06:09 PM
Problem is that they still use torture to get confessions in Japan. Not in this case of course.

In China, executions are by pistol to back of neck. After the event, executed criminal's family must pay for the bullet.

TamThompson
August 29, 2003, 07:42 PM
How odd--Japan doesn't allow guns for citizens, yet they'll hang one. :confused:

I think the business about making the executed criminal's family pay for the bullet is a cold-hearted and overboard.

A. Partisan
August 30, 2003, 01:41 AM
I'll bet their crime rate is lower than ours.

Justin
August 30, 2003, 03:59 AM
I'll bet their crime rate is lower than ours.Yeah, countries that don't recognize your civil rights generally have low crime rates. As mentioned before, Japan still has no qualms about beating confessions out of suspects.

Gets back to that age-old debate: freedom vs. safety.

c_yeager
August 30, 2003, 05:40 AM
We still have the occasional hanging in washington state. Of course, as of recently it has to be speciall requested by the the subject to be executed :confused:

A. Partisan
August 30, 2003, 07:22 AM
Hey, I'm all for making sure a scum bag child raping killer gets a fair trial. After they are convicted..................Hang em. Take the tax money that was going to be used to house, feed, clothe, and see to their medical needs and put it to a good use.

Double Naught Spy
August 30, 2003, 08:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE:
How odd--Japan doesn't allow guns for citizens, yet they'll hang one.

--------------------------------------------------------

What does that mean? What is the correlation between hanging and gun ownership? Would you consider it to be not odd if they allowed hangings and allowed gun ownership?

Iain
August 30, 2003, 08:53 AM
Being hung properly isn't a particularly horrific way to die, would prefer it to bein electrocuted even slightly incompetently.

As for the notion of not being told until the day, that doesn't seem so bad as long as you got time to say any goodbyes. The knowledge of the date of your own death a long time beforehand is mental torment - something like the knowledge of your exam dates but a thousand million times worse.

Justin's point about the freedom vs. safety debate is very relevant to the concept of capital punishment. You can be free of crime in a society, it is possible, but it requires a police state and extreme punishments as deterrent (not necessarily capital, think corporal and humiliating)

Anybody see the film about the Soviet serial killer who operated throughout the 1980's and is reckoned to have killed over 40 children? Is an interesting piece as it shows aspects of the Soviet system that are often forgotten about - the guy in charge of the investigation was kept on the case from beginning to end, over eight years. The FBI rotate investigators off cases like that every 18 months. In fact the FBI used this guy as an example - the FBI instructors are reported to have said 'this is the one guy I would not want pursuing me'. Anyway, the murderer was caught, convicted and executed. By a pistol shot to the back of the head with almost no warning.

Oleg Volk
August 30, 2003, 08:54 AM
I think the business about making the executed criminal's family pay for the bullet is a cold-hearted and overboard.


...as opposed to the local custom of taxing everyone for a few magazine's worth of ammo whether needed for killing of the selfsame tax payers or not ;)

greyhound
August 30, 2003, 09:30 AM
If you think the Japanese are pacifists, read some of the stories from WWII and remember that's only one generation removed.

I say this not to paint a whole country with one brush, but you can't argue with historical facts.

WT
August 30, 2003, 09:42 AM
The Japanese have a long history of execution for the lightest offenses. It was only 150 years ago or so that the samurai lost their status of being able to behead on the spot anyone that insulted them.

Japanese = barbaric. See World War II for additional info.

OF
August 30, 2003, 10:03 AM
CAUTION: Thread veer in progress :CAUTION

On the recent anniversary of Hiroshima while everyone was crying about nuclear horror, the History Channel ran a full-length no-holds-barred special on the war crimes of the Japanese in WWII.

I love the History Channel.

- Gabe

geekWithA.45
August 30, 2003, 10:57 AM
St Johns:


I guess I didn't make myself clear. The condemned isn't given any opportunities to make goodbyes, at all. And as for mental torment, I guess it's 6 of 1, 1/2 doz of the other. You can either count days, or wonder if today is IT.


Another note: my crim justice notes on hanging indicate that with all the torn tendons and so forth, it's probably excruciating for a few seconds, and that the bit about instant shock and so forth is probably BS. Similiarly, with beheading, consciousness can (and sometimes, but not always does) persist for 10-20 seconds. Just about all our methods of execution have some actual or potential element of being inhumane. Screwed up lethal injections can leave a prisoner paralysed, but conscious. (No evidence this has actually happened, however) Gas chambers are generally a horror show. Shooting is highly variable. Electrocutions are famous for their mishaps. Strangling, burning at the stake etc is for sadists.

It seems that just about the only "instant/foolproof" method is the messiest, and the one we never tried: instant obliteration by dropping several tons steel plate on the condemned, and I just ain't gonna go there.


Other notes: The Chinese have recently purchased a dozen or so mobile execution busses, using lethal injection, citing the logistical difficulties of arranging the use of stadiums. From what I've heard from people who've been there, I question their "logistical difficulties". My Dad had a 2nd hand story from when he did biz over there, about a westerner who was pickpocketed., The local cops caught the thief, trotted him around the corner into an alley, shot him, and came back a minute later with his wallet, and apologies. Apparently, this is a common thing.

TamThompson
August 30, 2003, 11:34 AM
Double Naught,
What I meant was that countries and cities who ban guns like to *think* of themselves as being oh-so-progressive and modern (although I certainly disagree that they are). Thus, I fail to see how they can juxtapose their self-image as a very modern country (IN THEIR MINDS, not mine!) with an old-fashioned method of execution. I wonder how they reconcile this amongst themselves.

And no, I'm under NO illusions that the Japanese have become a peaceful people within two generations. They only seem peaceful now because we forced them to be that way when Gen. McArthur wrote them a nice new constitution after WW2. Ever seen any of their comic books or their anime? No, not peaceful at all. I was particularly irked recently to see that their government has a Japanese ex-pat living in Oregon on their "most-wanted" list for selling guns over the Internet to people in Japan.

And I'm glad to see that the corporate Amercan love-affair for Japanese manufacturing techniques (we held them up as gurus in the early '90's) is now declining as the Japanese economy is in the toilet.

Although I *will* say I love Japanese food, and get along well with their folks. They are generally very hard-working and easy to get along with, although I wish they'd preserve their own unique culture rather than converting to American pop culture. (Not the violent culture, I'm talking about dress, architecture, and such trappings.)

Quartus
August 30, 2003, 12:38 PM
it requires a police state and extreme punishments as deterrent (not necessarily capital, think corporal and humiliating)



During my first trip to China I witnessed one of these "humilliation" punishments. There was a busy pedestrian bridge near my hotel. Probably 12 feet wide - almost a street in the air above the traffic. A women (probably late twenties) was forced to kneel there ALL day for several days, with a poster hung around her neck. Lots of Chinese writing and a very official looking seal in the lower left corner. I wanted to get a picture, but I didn't want to add to her suffering. I had no way of knowing if she deserved it or not, so I decided to err on HER side, since the punishment was meted out by a police state. She did look thoroughly ashamed.

I think that's a very good punishment for some crimes. Prison is certainly a stupid idea.


As for shooting pickpockets in China - I find that hard to believe. The police are not armed, as far as I could tell, and according to what locals told me. Only the military have guns. The police carry aluminum clubs. And most of them look about 16!

I did witness a purse snatching while there. Run, grab, run. It was over before anyone could react. No cops in sight. Hey! Just like America! :D

C.R.Sam
August 30, 2003, 12:56 PM
Hanging can be quick and relatively painless.
A lot more to it than just stringin em up tho.

Right rope, right knot, right amount of free fall etc.

Well hung, the neck is snapped sideways and death is very quick.

Not enough free fall and you get a choker swinging and flailing.

Too much free fall and the head comes off...spooking the herd.

Hangman has to know how to set it up for the individual. Body weight, build etc etc.

Sam

CWL
August 30, 2003, 03:40 PM
geekwitha.45,

Don't know where those second-hand stories of yours came from but not out of China. I saw one of the last public executions in there in 1987, it was in a stadium. Shortly afterwards, China made all executions in private due to international pressures. Executions are held in prison yards, typically within 2 days of court judgement.

"Gong An" -Chinese for Public Security, their version of our police, do not generally carry guns, only police specialists are issued pistols. They do not randomly execute any criminals, there is a trial before any punishment is adjudicated. Whether trial is sham or not, China places great importance on officialness -has to do with maintaining 'face'.

As for the mobile execution busses? Maybe Josef Goebbels sold these to them? If you ever travel thru China, you'll get an understanding as to how big it is, you'll also understand how ludicrous it would be to drive a few dozen busses around the country just to execute people.

Bullet to neck, always after trial.

bobs1066
August 30, 2003, 04:29 PM
CR Sam, IIRC, either the prison system in some Western state or the US military developed a formula for how far to drop people being hanged to insure a broken neck. You were supposed to figure in body weight, neck size and other factors.
According to legend a couple of heads were yanked clean off during the process of refining the formula when excessive drops were tried. Yuck-Oh!

geekWithA.45
August 30, 2003, 09:53 PM
Re: Execution busses: One source (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/14/1047583696682.html) The one I saw originally had pictures, but I lost that link. It might still be around if you google a bit.

As for 2nd hand stories, we all know they need grains of salt, and that's why I labeled it as such.

As for Chinese armaments, I'm not surprised to hear that the flatfoots are disarmed. My dad's escort, assigned to him by the Chinese government always was.

c_yeager
August 31, 2003, 03:30 AM
Bobs, i believe that washington state uses a manual produced by the Navy. There was an interesting situation a few years back concerning a certain scumbag who managed to gain enough weight (in PRISON i might ad) to go beyond the chart. He managed to at least get a number of stays because at the time the default method in this state was hanging. And it was decided to be "cruel and unusual" to allow the guy to be hanged with a destinct possibility of his head popping off. Im not sure how that situation was finally resolved but, it was infuriating at the time.

twoblink
August 31, 2003, 11:47 PM
CWL..

I think China, (like Taiwan) has moved to shooting to the back of the head by a benched rifle from a sniper at something rediculous like 25 yards.. The pistol shot to the back of the neck, did not always yield fatal results the first time, making a bloody mess and having to spend another bullet (which they don't have prepared as the gun is loaded with only 1 bullet at a time)

Taiwan use to not give anything; but now, you can request a blindfold and a cigarette..

308 Ball Ammo, from a M14 was what it use to be here in Taiwan, but I could be wrong about it now..

There's almost no bullet expansion who shooting at very close range at the neck, and so you get a hole only, and sometimes watch them choke to death because you can't reload quick enough (the logistics of getting another bullet is horrible I hear)..

clubsoda22
September 1, 2003, 03:03 AM
I think george carlin had the best idea. Televise executions and have the commercial proceeds go to balancing the budget. However, you'd have to make it more interesting. His suggestion was execution by catapult into a brick wall.

Orthonym
September 1, 2003, 06:04 AM
? Please?

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