Interesting patent


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pohill
July 28, 2008, 01:29 PM
I'll try again - might be a little better. Maybe not...
http://i33.tinypic.com/2vbtzj8.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/nz279x.jpg

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StrawHat
July 29, 2008, 03:38 PM
Prior to the pics being removed I saw the patent and thought two things,

1, I don't recall seeing any "improved" Colts on the market.

2, I wonder if this is what the "cowboy" action shooters had in mind when they came up with the idea of narrowing the hammer nose and frame slot.

It would probably be a decent fix and I wonder why it did not take off.

What was the date on the patent?

pohill
July 29, 2008, 03:57 PM
The pics are still too big but what the heck, it is an interesting idea.

StrawHat
July 29, 2008, 04:15 PM
1864.

The war might have gotten in the way and after the war everyone was trying to get around the Rollin White patent.

I may have to try it out on one of my 1860's!

Jim K
July 29, 2008, 04:19 PM
The idea was actually used on the Series IV and some Series II Manhattan revolvers. There was an article in (I think) Man at Arms a couple of months ago and a friend has the gun pictured in that article. The shield seems to work quite well.

I don't know of any other make who used it.

Jim

DuncanSA
July 29, 2008, 04:23 PM
An interesting patent but doomed to go nowhere. At that time improvements to percussion revolvers were meaningless as the era of the self-contained metal cartridge was already well established.

StrawHat
July 29, 2008, 04:31 PM
Rimfires were well established prior to the CW but C&B revolvers continued to be sold until existing supplies ran out sometime in the mid to late 1870s and continued to be used for quite a while after that. Many were converted to use the self contained cartridge but many were not.

The patent, if practical, would probably recieve a better reception today.

pohill
July 29, 2008, 04:38 PM
Now that you mention it, the gun pictured is a Manhattan. I got the info from a chapter about Manhattans in a book, CIVIL WAR GUNS by William Edwards.

thx997303
July 30, 2008, 03:59 AM
That looks like a great idea. I have had my lockworks either gum up real bad, or get a cap in it. It sucks.

Wonder how I would make one?

scrat
July 30, 2008, 01:39 PM
Ok which one of you guys is going to start experimenting on making one. I got dibs on a working model

StrawHat
July 30, 2008, 02:00 PM
I'll be posting photos as it gets going.

Steve499
August 1, 2008, 02:10 AM
It's hard to see but does the ring itself become a sort of transfer bar and strike the cap? The screws in the bottom would allow it to have forward play if it was thin enough, but it would seem to me that it would require quite a bit more hammer force.

StrawHat
August 1, 2008, 09:13 AM
Steve499,

That's the way I see it.

I don't think the hammer spring would need any increase. The transfer force would be local and direct so the original spring should work.

I am looking for steel that is thin enough to fit and thick enough not to deform. Otherwise I will need to modify the frame or cylinder.

Might be more trouble than it is worth. But still a lot of fun!

Jim K
August 1, 2008, 02:13 PM
Yes, it is sort of a transfer bar, but not for safety reasons. The spring serves to keep the cap in place during firing, so the cap doesn't fall into the mechanism. This was actually less of a problem in the Colt (and Manhattan) where the cap would usually fall out if the revolver was turned over, than in the Remington type, where the cap would hang between the cylinder and top strap.

The steel is about the same thickness as an M1 Garand clip. I think the steel from a large binder clip should work nicely.

Jim

Steve499
August 1, 2008, 03:04 PM
I might have to look into making one for my pocket navy. I had absolute fits with it blowing caps rearward and having them get down in front of the hammer in the hammer cut. I think I have it mostly fixed now but a modification of this sort would pretty much stop that from happening. I'd have to either have a bulge on the ring's front opposite the hammer or shim out my nipples, though, because the nipples on mine are recessed deeply enough that a flat ring would never touch the cap before bottoming out on either side.

My Pietta Remington has never had a single cap jam that I can recall. The narrow slot the hammer nose has to come through in the frame hasn't allowed any fragments to get past the hammer and any fragments just shell out the side like corn from a sheller. I'm sure I'm just lucky in that regard, Jim, but after all the other kind of luck I've had, I have some of this kind coming.

pohill
August 1, 2008, 03:18 PM
Were the Manhattans exact copies of the Colts, especially around the recoil shield? That might make a difference.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=106147730

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