I'm selling off my Glocks....for CZ's


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SureThing
July 28, 2008, 04:12 PM
Well, after much thought I have decided to sell off my G34 and 19. I just don't have the money to keep more than a few hand guns.

I do like Glocks, but I have got the itch for something more traditonal, something more....we pretty.

As of now I have a used P01 on the way for $400 shipped, and just won an auction for a NIB Stainless 75, which I got for $525 shipped.

My dad wants the Beretta I had just got, that had problems...he's a Beretta guy.

So once the G34 sell, the CZ 75 SA will be my next one.

My only beef with CZ is their frames and slides are cast.....I'm a forged man myself.

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strat81
July 28, 2008, 04:14 PM
My only beef with CZ is their frames and slides are cast.....I'm a forged man myself.
How many threads do you see featuring broken and busted CZs?

It's not an issue, do not worry about it.

Zan
July 28, 2008, 04:19 PM
I've owned both. I like both for different reasons, however I don't own a glock anymore. I have that P-01 and a 75B.. Looking to get a RAMI.

schmeky
July 28, 2008, 04:40 PM
I love my CZ's and prefer them now, as my primary platform. I still have a G17 and G34. I like the G17 best. Since I'm a "variety" guy, I'll keep the "G's" as well as some others for now.

But, I do understand your decision. My CZ collection has gone from 1 about 2 years ago to 4 with a number 5 in the works. CZ-75, SP-01, 40B, 97B, and second 97B.

As far as the frames being cast are concerned, it's a non-issue. The Ruger Blackhawks are cast and they are some of the strongest in the industry. My .45 Colt BH has sustained close to 1,000 very hot (but reloading manual approved) loads and can still shoot 1.25" at 25 yards.

I have read the steel in the Czech Republic is similiar to some of the 5100 series steel used in the Norinco 1911's, which means some really good stuff.

Let us know if you ever have any CZ frame problems:neener:

SureThing
July 28, 2008, 04:43 PM
I'm stoked, and cannot wait. I don't get to shoot often, and so I want to go look at my guns and think, who that is pretty.

Plus I want them to shoot well. Plans are the Stainless is the range/safe queen. The SA will be my IDPA rig, and the P01 my carry rig.

FEG
July 28, 2008, 04:51 PM
My only beef with CZ is their frames and slides are cast.....I'm a forged man myself.

My father, a wise man, once said something profound. "A cast frame means that they can afford to recycle their mistakes, rather than shipping them out anyway."

In contrast, I have owned two Colts with forged frames that couldn't be made to cycle when NIB. One was mismachined so badly that I was able to get it exchanged under warranty. The other was "fixed" by Colt, but it was never a decent pistol. I have long since parted with those dogs. I have an older Colt I inherited, but never again.

I have never heard of a frame failure in any CZ except a handful of 85 models. The extra cuts for the ambidextrous controls has caused a few to fail in the last 22 years. The lowest round count for this was well over 50,000 hot handloads (+P or higher in pressure) through the pistol in question.

bob40caliber
July 28, 2008, 04:53 PM
CZ's are fine pistols and right now, an excellent value.

Enjoy

NG VI
July 28, 2008, 04:55 PM
Good call, I am planning on a pair of 40B's for my next purchase, seeing as both my and my brother's birthdays are coming right up!

CountGlockula
July 28, 2008, 04:57 PM
I'll take your Glocks, how much are you planning to sell them for?

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 05:09 PM
My only beef with CZ is their frames and slides are cast.....I'm a forged man myself.

CZ slides are forged; their frames are not. There is nothing wrong with this, unless you prefer something different for what ever reasons those may be. I have my reasons also, so I have chosen an AR-24 (forged slide and frame). The AR-24 offers a little more in the CZ type platform. I went to buy another this weekend, but they didn't have the adjustable sight model.

The below is not a bad price.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/45495

FEG
July 28, 2008, 05:19 PM
Their (CZ) slides are forged; the frames are not.

Thanks for catching that, Dobe. I missed it.

A lot of people then go on to say "Brand X must think forging is better, because they don't cast their slides!" You couldn't cast a CZ slide if you wanted to do so. The amount of reworking it would take in the firing pin block area alone makes forging and milling necessary.

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 05:22 PM
A lot of people then go on to say "Brand X must think forging is better, because they don't cast their slides!" You couldn't cast a CZ slide if you wanted to do so. The amount of reworking it would take in the firing pin block area alone makes forging and milling necessary.


I am the one who generally would say that, and slides can be cast. The problem is not in the reworking. If you can cut a forging, you can skip the forging process, and go directly to cutting and shapping the cast. Forgings and cast may be equal under the right circumstances. I'm just not sure everyone can make those circumstances right.

CZ cast for the same reason everyone who cast does....to save money.

ftierson
July 28, 2008, 05:37 PM
Beating CountGlockula to the punch with an offer, I'll be happy to give you $50 each for your worthless Glocks...

:)

Forrest

SureThing
July 28, 2008, 05:40 PM
LOL, they are in the FS handgun section already, but a bit more than $50.

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 05:42 PM
I'm sure you'll get what you want.

SureThing
July 28, 2008, 05:44 PM
How did I do on the P01 and Stainless 75?

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 05:48 PM
Looks good to me. I see in your list, that you wish to get a CZ SA. You'll enjoy that one too. I have this one, and have enjoyed it. I have loaned it to my son-in-law. He bought an XD as his first center fire, and prefers the CZ. Of course, he prefers the AR-24 to the CZ, but I'm not that good of a father-in-law, if you know what I mean.

FEG
July 28, 2008, 05:50 PM
I am the one who generally would say that, and slides can be cast. The problem is not in the reworking. If you can cut a forging, you can skip the forging process, and go directly to cutting and shapping the cast.

I'll take your word for it (not my area), but how would you cast the void for the firing pin block and lever in one process? Is investment casting similar to injection molding?

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 05:55 PM
Don't claim expert status here either, but there are many levels of a cast product. Companies cast, in order to save money. With that in mind, consider a basic cast where all items are cast including, but not limited to the ejection port, the barrel port, locking lugs, etc. This alone saves money. Any where you do not need to cut or machine a product saves money. So what is left? You would need to finish the remainder by drilling the firing pin hole and make the remaining cuts. Any place a tool and labor doesn't get involved saves money.

armoredman
July 28, 2008, 06:53 PM
BTW, the P01 frame, your first CZ...is forged alloy. :) The PCR frame is cast.
Good choices -CZs are a great deal.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/CZfamily.jpg

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 07:04 PM
I had heard that the P01's frame was forged. That is one of the more recent line-ups isn't it? That frame is aluminum alloy? It's a nice looking handgun.

Irfan
July 28, 2008, 07:23 PM
I've just put my CZ-85B in my shoulder holster. :) I'm gonna get rid off my Glock 19. The Glock is great. The CZ is great. Both are great! I just want a small change. :o

burningsquirrels
July 28, 2008, 07:27 PM
forged or cast - forged isn't always better. i could've bought a heavier forged crank in my 450+ hp chevy small block, but the cast scat 9000 cranks take up to 500 and weigh less for less reciprocating mass. with guns, forged probably just adds to the price in the case of guns.

grimjaw
July 28, 2008, 07:28 PM
I switched from Glock to CZ if for no other reason than to give the Czech Republic a reason to thumb their noses at the Austrians across the border.

jm

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 07:38 PM
forged probably just adds to the price in the case of guns.


Yep, it does add to the price, but to me it's worth it. Generally, but not always, with one comes others. If a manufacturer goes through the expense of forging steel frames, they generally get rid of the tool marks too. It's a matter of what you want.

Back to the price. There was a time, when CZ was the low price deal. That is not the case any more. Now you can get that AR-24 for about the same price as the CZ.

SureThing
July 28, 2008, 07:43 PM
Personally, I don't buy guns anymore that are not made by the company that imports them.

I got burned on a CZ 712 shotgun that way.

burningsquirrels
July 28, 2008, 07:45 PM
forged is denser, so it also makes them heavier.

but back on topic, i applaud the decision to go CZ. :D

mpmarty
July 28, 2008, 07:54 PM
Dumped my Glocks at the local shop in the past few months. Never want another either. I'd go with the CZ or the Armalite clone but they aren't available in 10mm and since that's what I shoot most along with 45acp, there's no CZ in my future. Nice weapons though, I've shot a few at the range and they feel like my Witness pistols except the Witness has a safety where I am used to finding one like on my 1911s.

Dobe
July 28, 2008, 08:00 PM
Not to change the subject, but isn't Colt reintroducing the Delta 10 mm?

calaverasslim
July 28, 2008, 08:06 PM
Just my 2 cents, but I have both. Anyone need a Glock 30? Swap for a CZ 45acp......:banghead::banghead:

GZOh
July 28, 2008, 09:32 PM
Beautiful, beautiful pics armor...

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 28, 2008, 09:42 PM
I'm selling off my Glocks....for CZ's

BTDT....you'll be glad. :)

SureThing
July 28, 2008, 09:44 PM
What is BTDT?

Caimlas
July 28, 2008, 10:08 PM
CZ arms are the only imported firearms I will buy now, short of a Taurus revolver in leau of the the more expensive S&W.

If Kosovo or Albania starts making firearms of decent quality, I will buy their products as well. I'd say they'd be in a good position to manufacture an AK or (modified/reduced in expensive tooling and material) SKS, personally.

I'd prefer to buy American, but when all the American companies seem to make are over-priced "special issue" firearms (S&W) with whosits and whatsits and not much acceptance of tradition/what's been proven to work, or some look-alike variant of a 1911 or AR. There are only so many of those that you can honestly buy, and little reason to d so other than being a collector/having too much money.

Keltec, though, will likely be getting some money from me in the near future - even though I'm not so much a fan of the whole 'plastic' thing, you gotta admit their products are pretty good!

ETA: BTDT = Been there, done that

FEG
July 28, 2008, 10:52 PM
Since I am a shotgunner, there are quite a few foreign brands I would consider. (Those dang Italians sure know wine, gellato, and scatter guns!) However, the only handguns I seem to buy anymore are CZ pistols, S&W revolvers, and various 1911s (which tend to be U.S. made in my case).

The competition should be afraid, very afraid. When CZ-UB finally gets the hang of this whole "capitalism" thing, I don't know what will stop them. Since denationalization/privatization in 1993, the Uhersky Brod enterprise has: 1) Become one of the largest arms manufacturers in the world, exporting to over 100 nations; 2) Entirely revamped its product line from top to bottom; 3) Purchased Dan Wesson and Zbrojovka Brno outright; 4) Modernized its physical plant and production capabilities; and 5) Shifted it primary emphases in marketing and sales to the North American civilian market.

burningsquirrels
July 28, 2008, 10:56 PM
what marketing? lol... :(

FEG
July 28, 2008, 11:09 PM
what marketing? lol...

Exactly. If they ever get the hang of marketing, self-promotion, and payola, the world is not enough...

burningsquirrels
July 28, 2008, 11:11 PM
i just wish their prices were still the deal they were a few years before i started. :(

armoredman
July 28, 2008, 11:32 PM
We are thier marketing department! :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/silverplatter.jpg

Thanks for the compliment, GZOh, i just fool around with a cheap camera and free editing programs.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/czbw2.jpg

FEG
July 28, 2008, 11:45 PM
i just wish their prices were still the deal they were a few years before i started.


If it makes you feel any better, dollar devaluation isn't the only culprit. CZs cost more today for several important reasons:

1) Czech workers did not earn a competitive wage by EU standards for a little over a decade. Higher wages for the CZ-UB employees is a major factor. Czech workers still earn less than their German counterparts, for example. Personally, I think the laborer is worthy of his hire.

2) Czech "marketing strategy" was sort of unusual from 1997-2004. As far as I can tell, the thinking was that CZ and Sellier & Bellot would just undersell everyone for a few years. That is, they spent virtually no money on advertising, while selling their products at a very slim profit margin. In retrospect, it worked pretty well. As Amoredman mentioned, "we are their marketing department." Word of mouth spreads pretty quick via the internet.

3) Personally, I think CZ-UB overreached a little bit by buying both Dan Wesson and Zbrojovka Brno in less than two years. I'm not a business type, but that required a lot of capital outlay in a short time frame.

Mrs. Armoredman
July 29, 2008, 12:10 AM
I applaude you going to CZ's. Best gun I ever shot. It didn't give me blisters.

doc2rn
July 29, 2008, 08:21 AM
I got a 75b after all of you guys claiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
I have never been so dissapointed in a pistol that has such a following. Mine has had at least one FTF or FTE per WWB pad of 50. I have tried everything even a smithie.
Now I found one that gets little attention but runs like a champ FNP-9. I think the CZs of today remind me of the Ruger P series of the '80s.

burningsquirrels
July 29, 2008, 08:28 AM
then sell it so one of us can buy it, lol.

Disaster
July 29, 2008, 08:35 AM
forged is denser, so it also makes them heavier.

Only true if you are comparing steel to alloy. Unless there is a porosity problem, cast will have the same density as forged.

Forged usually weighs more because it is made to a less ideal shape. Every bit of material has to be machined off and this gets expensive so not all that can be taken off is. Cast can be made to nearly the final dimensions with intricate curves and recesses...optimizing weight to strength ratio.

IMTHDUKE
July 29, 2008, 09:10 AM
Never owned a CZ...I have owned Glocks, but did not like them. From what I hear of CZs, their attractive guns as well as quality, I would take them hands down over a glock.

FEG
July 29, 2008, 10:34 AM
I have never been so dissapointed in a pistol that has such a following. Mine has had at least one FTF or FTE per WWB pad of 50. I have tried everything even a smithie.

CZs didn't like certain lots of WWB from a few years back; neither did some other makes/models. Winchester eventually stopped getting cases from that source, because you don't see the problem anymore. Your problem might have been cleared up by shooting UMC, for example.

REPOMAN
July 29, 2008, 10:50 AM
Theres no reason being hasty in your decision....... Relax and have some ice cold Kool-Aid (hint hint)....... It'll make you feel better......:evil:

armoredman
July 29, 2008, 11:06 AM
doc2rn, did you ever contact Mike Eagleshield at CZ-USA about your CZ-75? He's the CZ gunsmith, and would be happy to help. Sorry to hear you had bad luck with yours , but even Ferarri made a lemon once in a while!

SureThing
July 29, 2008, 11:35 AM
Don't forget about the Beretta I had with bad milling.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 29, 2008, 01:33 PM
Surething, "BTDT" means "been there, done that", meaning I sold off all Glocks a few years ago, and now have 2 CZs (3 if you count the 52). Wouldn't go back for anything.

masterblaster
July 29, 2008, 01:56 PM
I love my custom 1911s, A Glock 19 is my beater truck gun. bought a CZ Kadet, had it threaded for a suppressor, turned it into SA and threw on a set of NIL Grips and now its my favorite plinker!

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