Stoeger LLama 1911 informantion?


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KodeFore
July 28, 2008, 05:54 PM
I have a stoeger industries Llama 1911 I would like information about. I contacted stoeger, they seem to deny any involvement. I contacted llama apparently that company has changed hands a number of times. I was wanting n inexpensive 1911 but although it feels and looks like a 1911 I think it missed the boat on this one. It shoots and its 45, as long as i dont have to reload and am ready to give the slide a good palm heal strike once in a while its ok.

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Mad Magyar
July 28, 2008, 06:22 PM
Give me a pic, or look around the trigger guard for some markings (letter or symbols) and I'll give you some info....
Was it a full-size like this, or a compact version?
http://i35.tinypic.com/122f9co.jpg

HammerBite
July 28, 2008, 06:36 PM
Do you upholster all of your guns? I use your ostrich HSc as desktop wallpaper sometimes.

KodeFore
July 28, 2008, 07:30 PM
Not sure how to put pictures on here. It is full size dark hardwood grips with medallions on them. above the trigger it reads
Stoeger Industries
S.Hackensack, N.J.
Made in Spain

Then in the scallap above the trigger is has the serial number on one side and some funny symbols on the other side the middle one looks like a big O

The gun also has what looks like a mini shotgun rib on the top

KodeFore
July 28, 2008, 07:33 PM
It does look alot like the gun in the picture there except for the grips and the magazine that came with this one has 8 holes in it

KodeFore
July 28, 2008, 07:36 PM
a major difference is that one the slide on this one the slide is straight to the end of the barrel it does not have the scalloped out part like your gun

KodeFore
July 28, 2008, 08:39 PM
First time putting up a photo

Z71
July 28, 2008, 08:59 PM
Stoeger imported lots of guns from Spain. Shotguns and Llama's included.

I have seen catalogs from the 1960's with Stoeger imported/distributed Llama handguns from plain to fancy engraved/gold inlaid beauty's!

The Spanish handguns should have a date code letter. A trip to the Spanish Largo website would likely identify the manufacture year and model.

HisSoldier
July 28, 2008, 10:10 PM
I couldn't view a .bmp file. Can you send it as a jpg.? I've owned several Llama's, and have two now. One is a serious pile of junk but shoots well. The other is much better. Llama's have a reputation for quality control that seems random. All three Spanish gun companies (Astra, Llama and Star) went out of business basically because of politics. Every American should get up every morning and thank God that we weren't born in Europe! I'm serious about what I just said and practice that every day, thanking Him that I was born in America.
Anyway, in Llama's case poor quality was as big a cause as politics, they had some really nice designs. The .380 Llama is one handgun that should still be being made by someone, a 2/3 scale 1911, I like both of mine very much. The steel seems soft to me, they aren't heat treated like a Colt or if they are quality control wasn't working. I assume that with the much more powerful .45 they would pay more attention to it, if so it should be a good gun, contrary to internet "wisdom". Remember, in the internet I've read where people say that $4000 custom 1911's are junk, so don't pay attention to one or even several such reports. If you like it, shoot it and enjoy!
You may have a weak recoil spring, try one with a couple more pounds of force? It may also be a slight three point jam, where as the cartridge is entering the chamber it simultaneously contacts the breech face and the bottom edge of the chamber mouth while the top of the cartridge hits the top of the chamber farther in. If it's only just barely doing that it can be Intermittant and hitting the back of the slide will chamber the round. If the cartridges are too long because the bullets are not seated deep enough that can do it too, reloads most likely in that case. If it's three point jams with factory ammo you can very carefully round the bottom of the chamber mouth with a cratex wheel in a Dremel if you have skill ( polish off a little where the ramp meets the chamber bottom, reassemble and try it, repeat as necessary), if not ask a gunsmith. Parts can be hard to find so don't do it if you aren't real handy with small tools and are not patient. All that is only if you know that it's three point jam with factory ammo.
It can also be that the external extractor has too much spring tension and the rim is catching on it as the case is rising into the chamber. If this is your first gun it's time to develop a friendship with a good gunsmith.

KodeFore
July 29, 2008, 03:26 AM
I tried to to take a picture with a basic Kodak easy 5meg camera but the problem is the file comes up too big to upload. Next I will try taking the picture with the camera my phone and see how that does.

The jams could have been the result of my early hand loads done with a lee loader. Its a neat little gizmo but it is hard to keep the bullet seating adjustment consistent. I have gotten better with the lee loader and still use it for the llama though I have moved on to a turret press for 38/357 which i shoot more of.

The slide stop broke on me once and I cant seem to find another though I did manage to torture a standard 1911 into compliance via rotary tool. ( earlier i successfully took a little off the hammer spur to prevent hammer bite. I am proud of that one )

I might also add that i ntoiced it seems to like the orig mag that came with it it works with some other 45 mags but not especially well

I tried taking it tothe only local gunsmith who basically told me it was not a "real" 1911 and should be scrapped. It shoots and has respectable 10 yd yd accuracy so I consider a valid home defense option. Not something I'll toss.


I do not plan on putting any serious money into this gun but if I could find a proper slide stop and set off grips I would consider that. That is why I would like to know more about what I have.

Basicly this thing is a safe queen Though I do take it the range when ever i get the urge to shoot 45 until I get "real" 45 at least

Treo
July 29, 2008, 06:53 AM
I seriously reccomend that you get rid of the gun the first (and last) Llama I ever owned would fire W/ the safety engaged & ocassionally disassembled itself during recoil. The metal is soft, customer service doesn't exist & last time I checked factory magazines where going for 60.00$ a pop if you could find them. I would find a nice deep lake & make it go Bye - Bye

On the plus side they do make wonderful paper weights.

doc2rn
July 29, 2008, 07:15 AM
I think you have what I call opposites. You have a different magazine than the one it came with. Same thing happened to me, I finally found one at a gunshow that worked. I was so happy I sold it the next day!

Treo
July 29, 2008, 07:26 AM
When I used non- factory mags on my Ccaca ( I think that's a more accurate Spanish name for them & it's more descriptive as well) it would drop the mag on every shot. I gave mine away & still probably asked too much for it.

HisSoldier
July 31, 2008, 12:40 PM
Like I said, I own two of them that never jam. You will probably wear out before the gun does unless you shoot matches with it. The gunsmith that told you that was just another human who wasn't thinking too clearly, as a businessman I would never tell a customer something like that, instead of taking a few minutes to investigate the problem he blew you off. Sell it to me. Consider this, it is an all steel handgun while so many now are plastic and aluminum, that raises it up right off the bat in my eyes. I'm a production machine shop owner and I know materials. Would I prefer it was heat treated? Yes. Would the fact that it wasn't make me throw it away? Nonsense. #1, how would you know? You would have to use a Rockwell tester to find out. Plus, as I said earlier, I strongly doubt it's soft as it's a high powered handgun. Anyway, if you think it's junk sell it to me.

Treo
July 31, 2008, 03:03 PM
Ccacas are soft and cheap & they look & feel soft & cheap. I admit that mine was reasonably accurate ( I could hit a 2 liter soda bottle 6 of 10 times at 100 yards). But it wasn't a safe gun to fire. After I replaced the safety I gave it away. The parts aren't interchangeable including the magazines (list price 67.50$ ea. at the Shootin' Den in Co. Springs) I'd like to say I wouldn't bet my life on a Ccaca but the fact is you DO bet your life every time you pull the trigger.

BTW His Soldier you're not A. in Colorado & B. hiring by chance are you?

mec
July 31, 2008, 03:36 PM
when Llamas were a good deal more common, we used to go to the range and watch 'em jam. Didn't matter if it was a 1911 or one of the scaled down ones in 22lr or .380.

We would amaze bystanders with feats of precognition. " That pistol is about to jam." and sure enough, it WOULD.

Mad Magyar
July 31, 2008, 05:08 PM
I tried taking it tothe only local gunsmith who basically told me it was not a "real" 1911 and should be scrapped.
Send it to me first before you do that.....;) Not too sure about your gunsmith...:rolleyes:

61chalk
February 8, 2009, 10:05 AM
I have a LLAMA .45 auto. Bought it back in 93'. Only handgun
I have. It has the rib on top, have fired about 200 rds. Works
perfect, feels great. My brother carried a .45 in Vietnam, an use
to own several .45 since then including a Magnesiam .45 that he
sold later in life for alot of cash, anyway he shot my LLAMA .45
one day an couldn't believe it. Told me that was the best shooting
an most accurate .45 auto he had ever shot!!!!! Not bad for a
200.00 dollar gun. An you guys spending 60.00 for a LLAMA clip,
an they are hard to get or find.....you don't have too...buy a 10.00
Colt .45 auto clip...do you see the notch in it that clicks into the
handgrip...ok....take a file an file upwards making that notch about
3/32 of an in. taller, less or more, an when you have just that little bit
done it will fit right in, isn't that nice to have multiple clips an not have
to spend alot of money?

JR47
February 8, 2009, 12:45 PM
Didn't we go through this once before?

The metal is soft, customer service doesn't exist & last time I checked factory magazines where going for 60.00$ a pop if you could find them. I would find a nice deep lake & make it go Bye - Bye

You, who keep mentioning that you're a machinist, should know that soft metal is measurable. Until you do, you're stating opinion as fact.

Gee, there is no customer service for older Colts and Brownings, does that mean that they should be in the lake, too?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.asp

Please, SHOW me the $60.00 magazines.

A master of hyperbole, but not of fact. Traveling the Internet and telling everyone how a Browning Link gun, who's safety lever had broken, launched the slide down-range.

Yes, yes, the guru of Llama. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

stalkingbear
February 8, 2009, 12:56 PM
I've rebuilt a few of the later llamas (most parts standard 1911 compatible) to where they were/are good reliable shooters. It would be stupid NOT to replace parts such as the plastic plunger housing among others. After you get done, they WILL shoot good BUT you still won't have a high resale value-the main thing helping me is the fact I do ALL my own work. Overall, I recommend trading it off IF you're not going to arsenal rebuild it.

JR47
February 8, 2009, 04:39 PM
I own an X-IB, and a IIIA. Neither one of them, nor any other that I've seen has a plastic plunger tube. I do remember when some has the plunger tube held in place with two screws, instead of staked, though.

Some of these guns are approaching 60-80 years old today, and there was no appreciable use of plastic in their internal parts until the last 20 years, if then.

stalkingbear
February 8, 2009, 07:25 PM
You need to look CLOSE at the latest models they produced. They DO have plastic plunger tubes. I have some of the tubes in my junk box.

The models I'm talking about was imported by legacy sports, and are YEARS newer that the stoeger versions.

HisSoldier
February 8, 2009, 08:46 PM
You, who keep mentioning that you're a machinist, should know that soft metal is measurable. Until you do, you're stating opinion as fact.

If you are referring to me I actually have Rockwell tested some Llama parts. The .380 I tested was dead soft in the area tested (The barrel).

But I also mentioned that I doubted that all Llamas are poorly heat treated, and even less likely that a .45 ACP Llama was soft. In my opinion Llama quality was not consistent, nor on average as high as Astra or Star. My opinions, my facts too.

JR47
February 9, 2009, 10:58 AM
Try TREO, not you. As for the heat-treating, and or "soft-metal", what were the readings? What was the comparison to other brands. I can find "soft-metal" on any gun, by testing a non-critical component, or even a location on a critical component that isn't hardened, to allow for work forces to be absorbed.

I do not own a Legacy sports Llama, and wonder if they are branded as such? I know that Star and Astra merged, and that the company continued briefly as a "brand available" manufacturer. Did Llama do the same? How was the plastic plunger tube attached? THAT I'm curious about. I don't doubt you, I'm trying to learn something here. :D

HisSoldier
February 9, 2009, 07:42 PM
As for the heat-treating, and or "soft-metal", what were the readings?

I wanted to test the barrel outside the chamber area because I wanted to weld up the very poorly machined lower lugs and was afraid I'd draw the temper down. It measured 18 RC. (!) Granted it's not as simple as measuring a slab of rectangular steel, but I made a chamber insert, very close fitting, to avoid "squash", and measured the indent size on the comparator afterwards to just to make sure it wasn't.
Welded it up and it works fine.

ralt33
February 10, 2009, 01:29 PM
I received this in trade (got it for a 10 speed bike) back in the late 80's. Eats everything. When I first acquired it occasionally it would double fire. I replaced the hammer and sear (non Llama parts) and never another issue. No ftf, fte or anything - ever. I flash chromed the whole top end. Yes, magazines are different and standard mags do need to be altered slightly. Pretty accuratethough obviosly not up to a custom built gun. I like it and trust it. It was my truck gun for a long time.

http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq329/ralt33/IMG_9543.jpg

JR47
February 10, 2009, 04:22 PM
Thank you. You wouldn't have a picture of the plastic tube plunger, would you? I'd like to keep one.:)

stalkingbear
February 10, 2009, 04:44 PM
As soon as I learn how to make pics go from camera to computer to site I'll post some. I have a broken 1 and a whole 1 I could send to you.

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