Is The Taurus 4510 "Judge" a good defense weapon


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gmmcm64
July 28, 2008, 10:33 PM
Hi,

I see many unfavorable comments about the Taurus 4510 but I get it that it is primarily in the context of experienced gun enthusiasts. I just want to pick up a couple of these weapons for my wife and I to defend ourselves in case the we ever became under attack in our vehicle or home. We just want to stop someone without worrying about becoming good marksmen.

Will it serve this purpose effectively?

Thank you all in advance.

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WC145
July 28, 2008, 11:21 PM
I have a 4410 (from before they called it "The Judge") and when I carry it or put it on the nightstand, I load it with a couple of .410 #6's and 3 .45LC 250gr Gold Dots and I'm confident it will do the job if needed.

The Lone Haranguer
July 28, 2008, 11:24 PM
Define "good." A .45 Colt (or a .410 shotgun shell with buckshot or slugs) has the power department covered. But the thing looks awfully unwieldy and not very concealable.

Zip7
July 28, 2008, 11:26 PM
We just want to stop someone without worrying about becoming good marksmen.

Will it serve this purpose effectively?

No. Use a baseball bat. There is no gun that doesn't need to be aimed.

The Lone Haranguer
July 28, 2008, 11:32 PM
We just want to stop someone without worrying about becoming good marksmen.

Again, you have to define "good." It will not relieve you of the need to place the shot accurately.

gmmcm64
July 28, 2008, 11:42 PM
No. Use a baseball bat. There is no gun that doesn't need to be aimed.

Cute... but just to be clear, I am not naive enough to think we don't need to know about how to handle the gun. We have 38 snubs and know how difficult it is to become a proficient aim.

I am looking practical info about the product. It's all good and I appreciate the attempt at humor.

machinisttx
July 29, 2008, 12:01 AM
With .45 Colt loads and proper shot placement, sure. With anything in .410...not likely. I'd bet on buckshot over a .410 slug though, since the slug only weighs around 100 grains. A .410 slug would also be over .040" too small for the .45 caliber barrel.

There are better choices.

gmmcm64
July 29, 2008, 12:10 AM
There are better choices.
Interesting... What would you recommend for concealment, handling and a real stopper?

Shade00
July 29, 2008, 12:18 AM
If you are looking at this gun because you don't want to spend the timing become proficient with it, then Taurus's marketing is working.

IMHO there is no substitute for practicing EXTENSIVELY with any home defense weapon. It is my understanding, at any rate, that the Taurus Judge has subpar accuracy when used with .45 LC and less-than-breathtaking stopping power with .410 shotshells. That is NOT to say that it cannot be used effectively - but allure of shotshells in the piece is somehow overcoming the need for substantial practice with the gun. Your money would be better spent on a real shotgun.

A better choice for me would be just about any steel .38 special with some +P ammo. You could practice fairly inexpensively.

Zip7
July 29, 2008, 12:19 AM
I don't mean any offense... and I see where you are coming from. I've seen a lot of people (myself included) dissapointed in the accuracy of snub nose guns, as they are indeed hard for most people to shoot accurately at anything that's not super close. To me that means that I need to be familiar with what my effective range is with whatever gun I have.

Most short barreled compact handguns are made for close encounters, and they are not really my cup of tea. I like to plink, and I do that much more often than I actually have to defend myself with a handgun. I am able to shoot better with a larger framed - longer barreled gun, and so those are what I prefer. The shortest barrels I shoot on a regular basis are 4.5" or so. I have a .357 Ruger single action in 6.5" barrel that I think is just the right size, and I am very familiar with single action revolvers, so that is what I keep handy in the house. I've got some longer ones - up to 8+ inches and at that point they become a little impractical for HD - at least to me they do.

I've never shot the Judge, but have seen them at gun shows... I don't like it, because it seems to me like you give up a lot to gain the ability to fire .410 shotshells - which I don't personally have a use for. The ones I've seen are big and bulky looking but still have short snubby barrels.

For my money, I'd stick with a full size DA revolver in the 4-5" Barrel Range - probably Smith & Wesson K or N size or a Ruger GP100, etc, but the point is - it's not my money - it's yours. You need to get what you can shoot well - what fits you best. If the Judge feels like an extension of your arm, and you have confidence in it and can hit with it, then there's no doubt it will do the job - especially loaded with 45 Colt rounds...

If you aren't that good with 38 Snub nose guns (many people aren't) the best route is to shop around - a lot - and find one that's a little bigger, and more importantly, one that feels right in your hand and is a quality piece. Will make learning to shoot it accurately much easier.

themic
July 29, 2008, 12:20 AM
No. Use a baseball bat. There is no gun that doesn't need to be aimed.

I'd argue you should aim your baseball bat too. :D

Really, I think if you're thinking "Judge", and you're thinking "home defense", it's time to buy a nice used remington slide action shotgun and a few boxes of 00 buckshot. Effective, easy, and much more of an intuitive aimer.

themic
July 29, 2008, 12:21 AM
I just realized that I just said that on a revolver forum. Whoops. :rolleyes:

jaholder1971
July 29, 2008, 12:22 AM
Judge would be OK using .45 Colt loads. I'd go with the Federal 255 LHP or the Silvertip if they still make it.

Forget .410, the shot doesn't have much oomph to penetrate the vitals, however I imagine a shot to the face from 10' would qualify them to work at the Lighthouse Industries for the blind once they're out of prison.

Psywarrior13
July 29, 2008, 12:43 AM
Ok, coming from a Judge owner here are my .02. First, The Judge is not my HD weapon, I use my SIG for that. I bought the Judge because it is just plain fun for me to shoot, and I got a good deal on it. Would it be an effective HD weapon? With the .45 Colt loads, yes, it can be an effective defensive tool, with the .410? I wouldn't want to find out the hard way honestly. In my experience they are more user-friendly than I thought they would be, and at least mine is VERY accurate. Ammo is not on the cheap side, and if you practice with the lead rounds (which are the cheapest you can get) you will spend a lot of time with care and cleaning. Training is vital with any weapon you own/operate, there is simply no substitute for it, even with a shotgun with a good load of buck requires at a minimum familiarization. As far as a concealment piece, I would look at something else, there are better choices for that. Overall, I enjoy my Judge, and would feel very comfortable using it in an HD situation with .45 Colt loads if that was my only weapon. If you can find a place to rent one, try it out, and if you feel comfortable with it, great get it, don't let anyone stop you. But, if you don't there are many other fine choices that fit your needs.

Hope this helps. Good luck in your search

Edit: I take mine to the range about once a week and put at least 50 rounds through it, and know it pretty well. Also I do not put any .410 rounds through it. This should at least be taken into consideration when dealing with accuracy issues.

machinisttx
July 29, 2008, 01:33 AM
Interesting... What would you recommend for concealment, handling and a real stopper?

If you want something in .45 Colt, a S&W M25 or 625 would be better choices. Taurus makes similar guns, and also made a couple of snubbies in .45 Colt though I think they have discontinued them.

I'm not sure exactly what your requirements are, but I did notice that you said you and your wife both already have snubbie revolvers. There's nothing at all wrong with a 2" barreled .38 special with the right load and proper shot placement. No matter what you have or buy, proper shot placement is more important than other details.

Pretty much any of the common defensive calibers are good choices. Beyond that, what fits your hand and shoots well for you are the determining factors.

DavidVS
July 29, 2008, 01:58 AM
Check what the Box O' Truth has to show...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

ugaarguy
July 29, 2008, 02:10 AM
just to be clear, I am not naive enough to think we don't need to know about how to handle the gun. We have 38 snubs and know how difficult it is to become a proficient aim.
.38 snubs are difficult to shoot well. Even experienced shooters have to work hard to shoot them well. The short sight radius, small carry grips, and low weight make snubby revolvers very unforgiving to even the smallest break down in basic marksmanship.

Put the little snubbies in the safe for a bit, and get something like a used S&W Model 10, 15, 13, 19, 64, 65, 66, or 67 (these are all K frame - medium frame - revolvers in .38 or .357, some stainless, some fixed sights, others adjustable; but essentially variants of the same gun) with a 4" bbl. You'll be shocked at how easy it is to learn to shoot one well. Practice basic marksmanship with this bigger and more forgiving gun. Then, when your skills are built up, take the snubbies back out.
I am looking practical info about the product
The Judge is most practical as a woods and field gun. .410 bird shot out of it is good snake medicine, and the versatility to shoot .45 Colt in the same gun takes care of bigger threats. The trade off is you deal with a long cylinder and frame making the gun front heavy, and holsters difficult to find.

The S&W revolvers listed above, and similar offerings from Ruger and Taurus, are better all around revolvers than the Judge. .38 special target ammo is also far cheaper than .45 Colt target ammo.

In the home where carry portability is not a concern the long gun is the way to go to defend yourself. A good 12 or 20 gauge pump shotgun with buckshot is a great low cost option. If you have deeper pockets various semi-auto carbines are excellent. However, I'll leave that for discussion over in the shotgun and rifle forums.

TimboKhan
July 29, 2008, 02:16 AM
My best friends Dad has a Judge, and he loves it. I am no particular fan of the .410 as a self-defense round, though I can see it being effective in some situations. I actually tend to agree with the idea for a shotgun in this case, though you have to aim a shotgun as well, particularly if your going to use buckshot. Does your marksmanship have to be tip-top with the shotgun? No, but you do need to learn how to use it, and that includes aiming.

mgkdrgn
July 29, 2008, 01:49 PM
I am a "Judge" owner (4" ultralite, blued), and I intend to use it for home/auto defense. The loads I intend to use are #4 buckshot in the first two holes, 000 buckshot in the last three. I want to get a pattern, not a single projectile, and I want to limit collateral damage.

At home/auto defense ranges, the Judge is going to do just fine, IMHO. I shot the attached last week. I also have a Glock 26 and an NAA Black Widow that I use as my "carry" weapons.

Check this thread for images of what the Judge can do with buckshot (msg 31)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=378812

I'm attaching what it does with #4. (1 rnd, 5 paces, 1 rnd 8 paces, 2 rounds 2 paces, big holes are the wad)

GEM
July 29, 2008, 03:02 PM
Both this forum and TFL have had quite a few Judge threads if you search. Consensus is that you are better off with a standard gun and some training. The supporters regard it as having some extraordinary abilities with the 410 loads and not having to aim it. I've seen posters argue they will pick up the Judge while still sleepy and unleash a blast of semi-aimed BBs that will blind the attacker until they then pick up some other gun full of CORBONS (how impressive - not that they aren't a good load) and finish the job.

It basically attracts the latter group for SD. I think that is a mistake.

machinisttx
July 29, 2008, 03:32 PM
Check what the Box O' Truth has to show...

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

I forgot all about him testing the judge.

It still won't deter the people intent on using an inferior gun/load combination though.

Arrogant Bastard
July 29, 2008, 03:38 PM
We just want to stop someone without worrying about becoming good marksmen.

I find this quote rather disturbing in the context of being a gun owner.

Perhaps you might want to try a ranged Taser or pepper spray?

jad0110
July 29, 2008, 04:33 PM
I just realized that I just said that on a revolver forum. Whoops.

That's okay, I'll say it too.

Since you already have handy, portable 38 revolvers (typically I have a snub in my pocket whenever I'm home), I personally would add a shotgun of some type to the home defense mix, 12 or 20 ga preferred. As someone else said, shotguns still have to be aimed to be effective, but the much longer sight radius makes accuracy much easier to achieve. And I find it quite comforting knowing that, God Forbid it ever happens, I can quickly hurtle 9 roughly 1/3" diameter lead balls at an intruder with the single pull of the trigger. To me anyway, that is far better than a single .357" or .451" diameter projectile.

RyanM
July 29, 2008, 04:58 PM
Will it serve this purpose effectively?

Short answer, no. Get something better.

Long answer, definitely no. I don't have a Judge and am unaware of any published chrono data, but the calculator I programmed (which is very accurate, and was within 2% of chrono data for what happens when a 12 gauge barrel is shortened way down) says that the 3" magnum buckshot, through a 3" barreled revolver (Taurus seems to only make a 3" barrel for the 3" chamber), you'd get 5 pellets of #000 at all of 785 fps. It's a little high sometimes, so 750-775 might be a better estimate.

If you go for 2.5" shells and the longest available barrel, then you could do 3 pellets of 000 at 1042 fps calculated, so call it 1000.

Neither one is a winning proposition, especially the magnum buckshot at ~750 fps. At that low a velocity, there's a very real chance of the soft lead pellets skipping off bone (like the ribs or sternum) without penetrating into the chest. The shorter shells and longer barrel are better velocitywise, but you only have 3 pellets. That's about like shooting someone 3 times with a .380. Okay, that sounds fine on paper, but a single decent 9mm hollowpoint, expanded, destroys the same amount of tissue (if not more), just in one big hole instead of 3 tiny ones.

I'd stick with a more conventional gun in a more conventional caliber. Maybe a revolver in .38 SPL or .44 SPL (or the appropriate magnum, but stick with special ammo). Go to a gun store with your wife and try on guns. Decide on something that you both like.

ChrisVV
July 29, 2008, 05:00 PM
Although I think this is a commercial and a little bias but the judge does look pretty cool.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM

Ohio Rifleman
July 29, 2008, 05:14 PM
You know, the Judge might not be a great defensive handgun, but I still like it. I like it because it's something new and innovative, something the gun industry hasn't had much of lately. I mean, some totally new concept that nobody has ever done before; that's what I like. Even if it flops, it's still good for the industry, I think.

Arrogant Bastard
July 29, 2008, 05:15 PM
Although I think this is a commercial and a little bias but the judge does look pretty cool.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM

Well, watching the last few seconds, as he fires two shotshells across the passenger seat, all I can say is if I were a passenger, I'd far rather he fire two .38 spl rounds past me, than a quickly dispersing shotshell which may hit me, too.

RyanM
July 29, 2008, 05:19 PM
I like it because it's something new and innovative, something the gun industry hasn't had much of lately. I mean, some totally new concept that nobody has ever done before; that's what I like.

The Judge is a direct ripoff of the Thunder 5.

Ohio Rifleman
July 29, 2008, 05:23 PM
The Judge is a direct ripoff of the Thunder 5.

Thunder 5? Never heard of it. Do elaborate; I never pass up a chance to learn something new.

Brian Williams
July 29, 2008, 05:34 PM
Not for me.

RyanM
July 29, 2008, 05:56 PM
http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/Thunder5.html

Only page I could find with a decent picture.

It's uglier and the barrel's an inch shorter, and from what I head the quality was pretty spotty, but other than that it's basically the same gun. Same concept, definitely.

Dunno if the Thunder 5 was the first .410 revolver, though. Maybe there was yet another one before that!

btg3
July 29, 2008, 06:40 PM
The Judge doesn't do justice :D to a .410 shot shell.

(.410 can be effective, but not in a 4" barrel.)

gmmcm64
July 30, 2008, 09:42 PM
Thank you all. This has been quite informative (this even for goes r some of the senior members who don't read so good:)).

I have taken your advice to heart and have decided to keep the 38 snubs (spend more time with them), get a shot gun and try out various types of 45s.

wyocarp
August 4, 2008, 01:46 PM
I own one and I think the "Judge" is possibly the biggest waste of metal of almost any gun made. It might have a little more viability if it shot the 3" .410s, but it is far from accurate as a .45 and the .410 is not a stopper.

Buy a short mossberg shotgun or something of the sort that will shoot 12 gauge shells. It will cost less than the judge and will do the job.

wyocarp
August 4, 2008, 01:49 PM
You know, the Judge might not be a great defensive handgun, but I still like it. I like it because it's something new and innovative, something the gun industry hasn't had much of lately. I mean, some totally new concept that nobody has ever done before; that's what I like. Even if it flops, it's still good for the industry, I think.


How can a total flop be good for the industry?

RyanM
August 4, 2008, 02:44 PM
How can a total flop be good for the industry?

Some other better funded, more visible company'll pick up the idea and run with it. I.e., .41 AE and .40 S&W.

brighamr
August 4, 2008, 02:50 PM
OP - it's a great defense weapon, if you use 45LC defensive rounds.

If it's loaded with .410, no it's not great for SD. Kind of like having a HD shotgun loaded with birdshot.

My wife owns one, it's perfect for snakes and such, and it's her carry weapon (with 45LC hollowpoints). So far we've had zero issues with this gun, and she really likes the grips. HTH

Keep in mind, all of the negative "inferior weapon" responses you're seeing... these are most likely the same people who say a glock will never kaboom, the sky is never blue, and toyotas are american made.

bottom line: try one out for yourself. If you like it, buy it.

Ohio Rifleman
August 4, 2008, 03:00 PM
How can a total flop be good for the industry?

You have to take risks. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained" and all that. Yes, the Judge doesn't seem to be doing well, but so what? Keeps things interesting and fresh.

Cosmoline
August 4, 2008, 03:06 PM
It's a fun gun for plinking and mixed short-range small game shooting (snakes and stupid chickens for example). The .45 Colt option gives you more power, but as noted there are superior wheelguns for that cartridge. You will have to aim the thing either way. .410 is a very bad choice for home defense.

I agree that if you are wanting something for HD without lots of training, get a proper shotgun.

ugaarguy
August 4, 2008, 07:23 PM
How can a total flop be good for the industry?
It's not been a flop at all. Until recently most gun stores have had trouble getting enough of them to keep up with demand. Even folks who come in just to look at a Judge but don't buy it often end up buying another handgun. Anything that sparks interest and gets customers in gun shops is a good thing for the industry.

Girodin
August 5, 2008, 02:23 AM
My good friend has a judge that I have shot a fair amount. It would be pretty far down my list of HD guns to be honset. That is not to say it couldn't get the job done. I would rather have one of several other pistols I own, to say nothing of long guns.

rainbowbob
August 5, 2008, 02:50 AM
.38 snubs are difficult to shoot well. Even experienced shooters have to work hard to shoot them well.

I keep reading variations of this. I do not consider myself to be an experienced marksmen by any stretch - but I consistently place 90-96% of my shots in center of mass on a silhouette at 7-10 yds with my snub. While I agree that one needs to practice as regularly as possible, a snub - particularly a heavier steel j-frame or the like - can be very effective for anyone with even a modicum of experience.

I have taken your advice to heart and have decided to keep the 38 snubs (spend more time with them)

There you go. And the following is a convincing argument for a "real' shotgun for HD.

I find it quite comforting knowing that, God Forbid it ever happens, I can quickly hurtle 9 roughly 1/3" diameter lead balls at an intruder with the single pull of the trigger.

wyocarp
August 6, 2008, 01:22 AM
It's not been a flop at all. Until recently most gun stores have had trouble getting enough of them to keep up with demand. Even folks who come in just to look at a Judge but don't buy it often end up buying another handgun. Anything that sparks interest and gets customers in gun shops is a good thing for the industry.

I'm sorry, I didn't think that a gun's worth could be determined by how many other guns are purchased instead.

Stores have had a hard time getting them, and that includes here in Wyoming. And all of that due to the hype, not from the performance of the gun.

I heard Tom Gresham talking about it saying that the shot didn't know that it was coming out of a pistol, making it just as good as a 410 shotgun. Well, that is far from the truth, but a lot of people have heard things like that.

He didn't say that the pistol can't shoot the 3" shells. He didn't say that the shells are slower to load than .45's, don't always seat all the way down easily, and don't eject easily. He didn't mention that unless one is shooting the side of a barn, many or all of the small number of shot might miss the target completely. He didn't mention that the selection of the shorter shells is sparce at most places that sell ammo.

dubious
August 6, 2008, 11:36 PM
I've paid a lot of attention to the Judge, but I've got to say it's not the best idea.

1. Any .45 lc pistol can fire .45lc shotshells. It's true, they don't have as much shot as a real .410 shell, and they probably don't spread quite as well at short distance... but they should be fine for snakes and small game.

http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/648570.jpg


2. You'd be ready to take on a tweaker zombie riding a soviet grizzly with 2 12 guage shotties, plus the .38 snubs as backup guns. Shotguns are pretty darn close to the ideal home defense weapon. They really are almost overpowered (but don't lull yourself into overconfidence). God forbid you should have to fire in self defense, but each shot of 12 guage 00 buckshot is nearly as powerful as a whole 10rd clip of 9mm. For the price of a judge you could probably get 2 12 gauge shotguns. That means you and the wife can watch each others backs. Not to mention a 12 guage is a heck of a lot more intimidating to than a pistol. And with the 12 guage you can switch to slugs for longer range and devastating power... much moreso than any handgun. Plus the longer sight radius, the ability to use as a club, and the ability to use bird shot as well... I'd go with the shotgun. Also remember that shotguns do not spread very well at 7 yards, so you do have to aim carefully at self defense ranges.

Good luck and remember... if you can, just hole up in your safest room with your wife and kids and wait for the cops to come.

Todjaeger
August 11, 2008, 12:07 AM
Having purchased a 3" Judge for HD/CC, I am wondering what would be a good carry load, just in case.

I would not consider using any 0.410 shell, given their tendency to spread. I have been doing pattern testing to see what the spread is at around 25 ft. For all of the different sized shot fired (000, #4,6 & 8) the shot will indeed hit the target, but also anything around the target, which is not acceptable to me.

Instead, I have been looking at different hollow point rounds, and would like others thoughts on which would offer better overall performance.

So far my list is as follows:
Corbon 200gr +P JHP
Speer Gold Dot 250gr HP
Buffalo Bore 260gr JHP
Hornady 225gr FTX

What I am wondering is what the overall thoughts are regarding stopping power, penetration and overpenetration. I have yet to fire the last two (not been to the range yet with those...) and am somewhat concerned if the Judge will handle the Buffalo Bore, so if people have any ideas or suggestions, they would be welcome.

Also, if there are others that posters would recommend or suggest trying for a carry load, suggestions are welcome.

-Cheers

PS at HD ranges, accuracy is not a problem, at least in the range anyway.

9x19sig
August 11, 2008, 05:01 PM
Recently there was a home invasion shooting with a Taurus Judge loaded with the Winchester 3 pellet 000 buck. There was 1 shot fired and the assailant was dead before paramedics even arrived. The article didn't state where the assailant was shot but you can probably imagine it was a solid hit to the head or upper chest.

JShirley
August 11, 2008, 05:44 PM
Tod,

Buffalo Bore "standard heavy" is a 255 grain SP @ 1,000 fps (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45). (I'm guessing that's from a 4 5/8" barrel.) From there, you move up to 260 JHP @ 1450 (http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#45colt). The ammo is $66.14/50.
Georgia Arms offers a 260-grain JHP @ 1200 fps (http://georgia-arms.com/45longcolt.aspx?page=2). This splits the different into what I hope will be a happy medium, for a very reasonable $28.75/50 plus shipping.

roscoe
August 12, 2008, 12:10 AM
You wouldn't catch me firing any of those loads from a Judge.

Todjaeger
August 12, 2008, 12:27 PM
At this stage in the game, I'm in the process of doing two things.

1. Trying different rounds to see which ones I like to shoot (and won't mind cleaning up after...)
2. Finding a good home & personal defense carry load.

My requirements for the two are obviously going to be a wee bit different. For the first, I'm looking for something that is inexpensive, accurate, easy to shoot with and won't lead the barrel excessively or otherwise be hard to clean.

For the second, I want a round that is accurate, with enough power/performance to stop or eliminate a threat, yet have minimal risk to bystanders due to overpenetration. Cost and clean up is less of a concern, since it would not be something which would be fired on a regular, high volume basis. Enough would be fired to ensure competency with that particular load, as well as rotation of ammunition, but it not be the normal range "play day" load. Given this, it also it not as great a concern if the load is one of those which beats up ones hand, since in a defensive situation, I don't imagine it would last long enough to need to reload more than once, Zombie situations aside.

I did at one point pick up a box of the Buffalo Bore Heavy Colt +P 260gr JHP (the 1450 fps) unfortunately I didn't notice the warning on the side about which revolvers it was for. Also, given that the Judge is so new, it might not even have been tested yet. Hence my interest to see if it was a "safe" load, also I don't want to accidentally shoot someone, because I was shooting some mugger/intruder/other ne'r-do-well.

Does anyone have an idea of what amount of energy a 45 Colt JHP can have and be effective without overpenetration? I can see where the 260gr JHP @1450 fps might have too much energy to open sufficiently to stop.

When I get a chance, I will post what I have used so far, along with what feels comfortable in my hand.

-Cheers

[edit] Opps, forgot to mention, thanks for the link to Georgia Arms, I'll take a look at their stuff.

MCgunner
August 12, 2008, 12:32 PM
Gimmick. I can keep a real shotgun in the bedroom and the Judge is too big for carry. I wouldn't use a .410 with 28" full choke for self defense, why would I cut the barrel off to 4" and rely on it? I mean, yeah, it'll stop an attack, but so will my .38. I can't see an advantage in the Judge, personally. My .45 Colt Blackhawk is a more accurate gun, I'm quite sure.

Todjaeger
August 12, 2008, 12:52 PM
Gimmick. I can keep a real shotgun in the bedroom and the Judge is too big for carry. I wouldn't use a .410 with 28" full choke for self defense, why would I cut the barrel off to 4" and rely on it? I mean, yeah, it'll stop an attack, but so will my .38. I can't see an advantage in the Judge, personally.

For some of us, the Judge isn't too big to carry concealed, and being able to fire .410 also adds a little more variety. However, there is indeed a 12-gauge & 00 buck in the bedroom for the uninvited guests...

Drgong
August 12, 2008, 01:39 PM
I rather have the judge then nothing, but I think there are better options.

Just my .02 Lira.

Todjaeger
August 13, 2008, 01:09 PM
As an aside, I heard back from Buffalo Bore. A heavy .45 Colt +P (the 260gr JHP @1450fps) cannot be used in the Judge. I will have to then decide what to do with the box I have.

-Cheers

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