Looking for a new gun to outdo my P6!


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AR
July 29, 2008, 01:16 AM
Looks like I've got enough leads on my 10/81 P6 that I will definitely be getting rid of it. Overall, I love this gun -- it's accurate, 27 years reliable and probably 27 more to go. However, it's obviously a little older and broken in, and mag capacity for 9mm is lacking (8+1, made up for by 5 total mags). It has served well, with only 3 failures in 1500+ rounds that were probably all the fault of the ammo (same box).

So, coupled with the money I have to put towards my next purchase, I'll be looking around $600, with opportunity for a super value at $700. I don't mind used guns at all, in fact I'd prefer them for the added value/price.

I'm looking for something:

a) as reliable as my Sig, with the same or better reputation
b) probably 9mm, although I'm not completely opposed to switching caliber (.40, .45 though, no 10mm/.380/etc)
c) nothing smaller than the P6, as it is a TINY bit too small for my hands, but still grips well
d) accurate! I can fix my lack of skill, but I don't want to try to troubleshoot a pistol!

My dad just purchased an '01 Sig P220 in .45 which sort of ignited the "spend". If I can get a pistol that meets the above goals for $300, by all means I will. I don't need to spend more money to feel good about a weapon.

All of that said, what pistols would you recommend I look into, that rank up there as meeting a b c and d?

Off the top of my head, CPO Sig, Glock, H&K (except price) are the obvious choices, but I want to hear yours. Glock grip angle doesn't bother me, I can adjust.

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jcalys
July 29, 2008, 01:28 AM
Just bought a two tone Sig 226 in .40 w/night sights from Buds for $600, looks like they have an all black of the same gun for the same price.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_28_778/products_id/411534879

AR
July 29, 2008, 02:47 AM
Anyone else? I've had suggested the CZ 75/(S)P-01, Browning HP, Glock 17, and of course Sig new/CPO 226.

I would appreciate advice on these as well as other suggestions.

Thanks again -

lechiffre
July 29, 2008, 03:42 AM
walther p5

hk p7

doc2rn
July 29, 2008, 08:03 AM
I prefer the Glock 19 & the FNP-9. The FNP has slowly taken over as my full size auto rig. I want one of those single stack Sig .380s next.

AR
July 29, 2008, 01:11 PM
Not to bandwagon on someone else's story, but I've heard some bad things about FN quality control in the last year or two -- is that reliable information?

AR
July 29, 2008, 01:12 PM
Definitely looking for bigger and newer than these two (walther P5, Hk P7), but I've heard good things and appreciate the suggestion.

NG VI
July 29, 2008, 01:20 PM
The CZ PCR and P-01 are both about the same size as the P6, both very reliable, and accurate as well. And they both cost about $500, a little less for the PCR. They can also accept the CZ Kadet kit, allowing you more practice on your regular carry frame for cheap. Also, CDNN has some Steyr pistols and SW99s for under/around $350, those seem to have quite a following.

I also really like my Glock 27, a subcompact .40, and it has really changed my (previously ignorant) opinion of Glocks for the better. The model 19 and 23 would be well worth looking into, especially if you are a law enforcement officer, military, or firefighter/EMT since Glock has some SERIOUS discounts for that class of people. $398 for a standard model, with three magazines instead of two.

AR
July 29, 2008, 01:22 PM
Wow, I didn't know that about Glock's discounts. I may have to suggest that an LEO friend of mine buy one for himself, and then sell it to me!

Zak Smith
July 29, 2008, 01:27 PM
If you like the P6, maybe try to find an older, used P228. On the other hand, it's hard to go wrong with the Glock 19-- it's a great workhorse gun. I've seen many of them used for $250-400.

-z

AR
July 29, 2008, 01:35 PM
I've heard so many good things about the Glock 19, I almost wonder if it's a conspiracy.

The only thing that worries me about the 19 is that it might be too small for my hands (the Sig is very slightly larger). I've fired the 17 and liked the 3rd gen model, so that should be somewhat similar. I believe I've fired everything that has been recommended so far except for the CZ and the G19.

I suppose I should add that the pistol is mostly range shooting and 'home defense' (if it's in my house, it will be used for HD... the same goes for our dining room chairs, TV remotes, and any food products over 5lbs).

Rackir
July 29, 2008, 01:42 PM
A 92 (either Beretta or a Taurus) or an all steel Jericho 941 (aka Baby Eagle). The Jericho is the more accurate of the two, and the 92 is about as reliable as they come (to the best of my knowledge) often going 5000+ rounds without any failures. And heck, if you shop around for used guns, you may be able to get both for your 600 mark!

Zak Smith
July 29, 2008, 01:43 PM
It's no conspiracy. With regard to "fit", etc, read what I wrote over here
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4713806&highlight=mindset#post4713806

AR
July 29, 2008, 01:59 PM
Zac, that's exactly why Glocks are making my list as well - I just know I can't go wrong with them. If I pick one up it not might become my all-time favorite, but it will certainly get the job done every time.

I'm not in the multi-safety camp either. Of course I want my weapons to be secure and safe in the house, but my P6 has no safety (decocker instead) and I've managed not to unintentionally fire it thus far. I also like that my wife can pick it up and fire it without having to think about it, because if she ever needs to fire it she won't be able to think! (I haven't had her at a range yet for practice because she's 6 months pregnant).

AR
July 30, 2008, 12:24 PM
Any other opinions here?

G19, Browning and Sig 226 seem to be the front-runners by suggestion, with CZ being the dark horse (hard to test as no local ranges have them).

I'll probably head out to test just about all of these this weekend, so I just wanted a good list of ideas before I make the trip! Thanks again -

NG VI
July 30, 2008, 12:30 PM
I just want you to validate my love of CZ.

rellascout
July 30, 2008, 01:00 PM
For the money you should check out the FNP-9.

$400 is not a lot of money for this world class polymer with 3 mags.

I would also throw the Sig Pro SP2022 on the list. $459 + shipping with 3 mags. It will put the DA pull on your P6 to shame. It is an all German gun with proof marks and gets out the door under $500.

jws527
July 30, 2008, 01:04 PM
If you like the P6 that much, the choice is obvious: another Sig.

Look for a P228/P229. It'll be like remodeling your house - same place, same memories, same comfortable feel - but better. :)

The SP2022 is another option worth considering.

NG VI
July 30, 2008, 01:16 PM
For the money you should check out the FNP-9.

$400 is not a lot of money for this world class polymer with 3 mags.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those! CDNN has them very cheap right now, there are some "special purchase" ones which are about $60 cheaper than their "ordinary" FNP, the special purchase ones are only available in 9mm, for 379, also they have special purchase FNP-9m's for 339 DAO version and 389 for the standard version. FNP-9m is a compact model, but not by much. Less than a quarter inch shorter barrel, one round less magazine length in the grip, but I've read on the fnforum that FN is not planning on importing the FNP-9m into the U.S. anymore for whatever reason. Probably too close to fullsize. The regular FNPs they have you have a choice of any of the normal calibers, 433.

Also on the FN forum I read that despite CDNNs statement that the FN shooter's pack is not available with the special purchase FNPs, you can still get it if you give FN a call and ask.

AR
July 30, 2008, 01:24 PM
I know this is somewhat subjective, so I'll ask, how do these compare objectively to the Glock/Sig/H&K trifecta?

I don't discount any praise you guys have for the FNP, but it's hard to decipher sometimes what reviews are based on. Earlier this year and last year the hot "best guns ever" were the XD and M&P (in my neck of the woods), and this year I think people have a more realistic opinion of them. (Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread, I just wanted to qualify my question).

NG VI
July 30, 2008, 01:32 PM
I don't have an FNP yet, I just ordered one yesterday though, and can't wait to get it. From what I have read, they are high quality, as good as anything else FNH puts out. I think FN-Herstal's product lineup pretty much speaks for itself, they make many of the M16A2s in service right now, they make both the M249 and M240 machine guns (or the FN Minimi and FN MAG machine guns, for non-U.S.) and one of their best known products is on your short list already, the GP35.

burningsquirrels
July 30, 2008, 02:26 PM
you could be served well with a glock, XD, or CZ very easily. they're all double stack and high quality.

PX15
July 30, 2008, 03:26 PM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_6844.jpg


Jesse

AR
July 30, 2008, 03:37 PM
Nice Jesse! I've held a few of the P99's and they all fit my hand like they were designed for it, thanks for reminding me.

Disaster
July 30, 2008, 03:41 PM
If you are looking for the current deals there are several.

The FNP9's are definitely one. Another, even better deal is the Steyr MA1's that CDNN has for $340. Then there are the CZ40b's for $290. These are rugged and accurate. The beauty of any of them is, like the P6, you should be able to sell them down the road for not much less than you paid for them. Heck, they might even go up once the supply dries up.

burningsquirrels
July 30, 2008, 03:41 PM
https://www.student.gsu.edu/~ggingco1/post/cz40b_SAO_small.jpg

i can vouch for the CZ-40b. :D

AR
July 30, 2008, 04:14 PM
Man I love the look of those skeleton hammers on the CZ... you guys are making this harder, not easier.

burningsquirrels
July 30, 2008, 04:28 PM
not harder, just easier.

CZ. :)

the 9mm models: 75 compact, p-01, and PCR are smaller that fullsize and will be a little larger than your p6. if you're willing to go full size, then go with the standard 75 for bread and butter. the fancier sp-01 is always a good choice as well, as is the 75 SA if you want to try sport shooting.

AR
July 30, 2008, 05:02 PM
May I ask why SA for sport shooting?

rellascout
July 30, 2008, 05:41 PM
I know this is somewhat subjective, so I'll ask, how do these compare objectively to the Glock/Sig/H&K trifecta?

I don't discount any praise you guys have for the FNP, but it's hard to decipher sometimes what reviews are based on. Earlier this year and last year the hot "best guns ever" were the XD and M&P (in my neck of the woods), and this year I think people have a more realistic opinion of them. (Hopefully this doesn't derail the thread, I just wanted to qualify my question).

FN Herstal is a great manufacturer. They not only manufacture the M4 for the US Military they own and manufacture the Browning line of guns.

I own the FNP-9. Its trigger is as good as any CZ or Sig out of the box. It is light holds 16+1 and has a rail for those who want one. Its build construction is great. I cannot find any offensive tooling marks or blemishes on the gun.

At $400 shipped you are getting a much better value then the Croatian XD or the MP IMHO. Deals come and go. As the popularity of the FNP-9 grows its price will go up. The price is artificially low right now because the $400 guns are contract guns. They sell for $450+ shipping normally.

This is what makes it very hot right now. Mine has eaten about 500 rounds in two range sessions and it has been flawless. If you are in the market for a 9mm you need to check this one out.

Here is a link to a great write up from Stephen Camp. http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/taking_a_look_at_the_fnp9_pistol.htm

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0047mb.png&usg=AFQjCNHjW_uCbAb92CpsyaKTlgKU1_qpIw

AR
July 30, 2008, 07:13 PM
Thanks rella - I stumbled on that same review and it definitely makes it sound like a very smart weapon.

rellascout
August 1, 2008, 12:01 PM
I can also confirm that you can get the shooters pack with the CDNN guns. I faxed the info over yesterday and received the shooters pack today.

This makes the FNP-9 at $400 and even better deal. You get a Blade Tech kydek holster with paddle attachment, a training barrel and a double mag pouch.

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/promos/pdf/fn_shooterspack.pdf

GZOh
August 1, 2008, 03:22 PM
Double ditto rellascout... on that FNP-9!! The only 'poly' I own, and it's a flawless, quality, big-gun shoot... 1500+ rnds, NOTHING! Got mine about 6 months ago and that 'Shooters Pak' came with the gun. The kydex holster fits and looks perfect with it... If you can still get all this for UNDER $400... a 'no-brainer', go for it. You won't regret it, a great gun!

Alot of other good guns mentioned. Will not go wrong with the Sig-Pro for under $500. It's a SIG... great German quality and a great shoot! Don't own one but shot one, a real good shoot.
In the CZ line, what's there to say!... you can go in many directions! SP-01, P-01 (have both and love 'em big-time) then there's the 40B, have mine less than a month... great shoot (different 'feel' for a CZ, but big-gun, quality pistol) and like Disaster said, at $290 it's a STEAL!!

But in the end, it's always the same... you can listen to alot of good recommendations but utimately, you gotta see 'em, hold 'em and shoot 'em... then you'll know what's right for YOU!!
Happy 'hunting!'

AR
August 1, 2008, 03:46 PM
Well, I went by Sportsman's Warehouse today to check a few things out.

The 226 feels good, but I might need to try out the hogues to make it fit perfectly. Definitely the highest quality gun I'm looking at IMHO.

Glock 19 is out. I could not get it to fit correctly with the angle and small size, and even the salesman commented that it looked awkward.

Glock 17 is in, but is bulkier than the Sig with the squared slide and just isn't my favorite anymore.

H&K S-2000 was introduced -- it feels nice, but I've never shot one.

Walther P99 - I've always thought this was a ridiculously comfortable gun. I'm not too keen on striker-fired pistols though, and the QA model they had seemed gimmicky with the safety features.

I still need to try out the FNP and the CZ, but right now for all-around best purchase I think I'm still leaning 226...

rellascout
August 1, 2008, 04:27 PM
Nothing wrong with the P226. Its a good gun but it is a straight forward combat gun. I do not think it is conducive to carry. The ones I have owned were strictly range or HD guns.

AR
August 1, 2008, 04:29 PM
I feel the same way, and I guess I don't really plan to carry in the near future, and in Texas I can carry in the car all I want anyway. I also prefer the no safety, decocker format.

Still searching for an FNP locally, and man, am I wrong to be wary of striker pistols like the P99? I feel old not liking them, and I'm not that old yet.

rellascout
August 1, 2008, 04:32 PM
Glocks are striker fire pistols. It is a reliable system IMHO.

I am not a P99 fan but it has nothing to do with it being a striker.

Bullet Bob
August 1, 2008, 07:51 PM
My only advice is to never get rid of a gun that you like, and has always performed well for you.

You will regret it.

Save up for a different type. Now feel free to ignore this advice :)

AR
August 2, 2008, 04:21 PM
I made the mistake of trying out the 226 Elite, and man that extended beavertail feels nice!

I've further narrowed the search to 226/229, and I still need to find and try a CZ SP-01. Haven't been able to locate one yet.

modifiedbrowning
August 3, 2008, 01:48 AM
Bersa Thunder 9 Fullsize.
www.bersafirearmsusa.com

Pilot
August 3, 2008, 08:33 AM
The CZ-75D PCR is my all around favorite carry gun. 15 round capacity and a relatively light and compact package. Accurate enough to be a range gun and very reliable.

sophijo
August 3, 2008, 11:01 PM
What BulletBob said!

wnycollector
August 4, 2008, 10:58 AM
+1 for the CZ 40B. The best pistol I own for less than $300. If it was not a closeout these things would be $500. You CANNOT go wrong picking one up!

If you are going to stick with 9mm the FNP-9 from CDNN is a pretty good deal

burningsquirrels
August 4, 2008, 11:02 AM
man, someone around you has GOT to have a CZ-75 or a variant of one. did you try calling around?

OcelotZ3
August 4, 2008, 11:48 PM
Interesting on the FNP-9. I just ordered one from CDNN and they specifically said (twice) that it "didn't qualify for any of the extras".

NG VI
August 4, 2008, 11:51 PM
They told me that too, and stated it in their catalog, but both here and on the FNforum I have seen people post that they do actually qualify for it. Bladetech holster, mag puch, and training barrel sounds alright to me, plus apparently sometimes they toss in little FN goodies like keychains or stickers.


I like keychains and stickers, they help me be a fanboy!

Curiousity
August 5, 2008, 03:47 AM
CZ hands down...

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