If you could change ONE thing about Gun Laws...


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Drgong
July 29, 2008, 03:40 PM
What would it be?

Mine would be that Local and state governments cannot regulate firearms except for the locations of gun stores though zoning, and gun stores must be treated as a common retail establishment.

What is yours?

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ny32182
July 29, 2008, 03:46 PM
It would be a toss up between many "single things" (which numerous individual laws may require changing to get accomplished)...

But I think my one thing would be that carry permits are either abolished (in favor of Vermont style everywhere) or that any state CCW permit was valid in the same way a DL is valid: Everywhere.

Close second may be that full auto was treated same as semiauto for legal purposes, though that wouldn't really have any practical application. And with ammo prices being what they are now, the fun factor may be limited as well.

SsevenN
July 29, 2008, 03:50 PM
But I think my one thing would be that carry permits are either abolished (in favor of Vermont style everywhere)

That's exactly what I would change.

buzz_knox
July 29, 2008, 04:00 PM
The one thing I would change about gun laws is their very existence.

KiltedClaymore
July 29, 2008, 04:02 PM
repeal 1938 gun act.

matrem
July 29, 2008, 04:13 PM
Repeal all of them.Crime is against the law.Any device used to enable it is a non issue,whether it's a car,a gun,or a brick.I'd be all for more severe penalties to the criminal though.

Reddbecca
July 29, 2008, 04:15 PM
If I could change one, and only one, thing about guns laws, I'd change the legal status of gun control to make it overwhelmingly illegal and subject to repeal.

siglite
July 29, 2008, 04:17 PM
Simple. Strike 18 USC Sec. 922

RonE
July 29, 2008, 04:21 PM
The one thing I would do would be to make all states the same as the most liberal state with reguard to CCW, open carry, waiting periods and gun transfers.

glink
July 29, 2008, 04:26 PM
Obeying the first gun law would take care of the rest.

See COTUS-2A

MT GUNNY
July 29, 2008, 04:33 PM
How about a law that forces Politicians to obey the law!!

IE Mayors of certain city's

blkbrd666
July 29, 2008, 04:46 PM
I would make any law governing firearms illegal.

ProficientRifleman
July 29, 2008, 05:11 PM
I would end the doctrine/concept/practice of prior restraint.

NEVER should there be ANY prior restraint on an existing constitutionally guaranteed right.

Sure, you have a right, just get this permission slip first, apply for this permit first, come into possession of this license first, let me check your background first, prove to me you're not a criminal, wife beater, dog raper, FIRST... and then WE will permit you to exercise your (chuckle, chuckle) right.

Folks you have a right to breathe. Do you suffer any prior restraint first?

You have a right to speak your mind. Do you have to get a signature from your CLEO and a permission slip and tax stamp first?

pappy
July 29, 2008, 05:48 PM
Obeying the first gun law would take care of the rest.

See COTUS-2A

+1 Works for me!!

GRB
July 29, 2008, 06:13 PM
The Right of The People to keep and bear arms is an absolute right of each and every individual citizen of the United States of America who has reached the age of 16 years, and is the right of all younger American citizens when properly supervised by a parent or guardian, so long as said citizen has not been convicted of a felony wherein the person convicted made use of force against another in the commission of said felony.

No law or regulation or other legislation or governmental edict, decree or order shall be constitutional that in any way infringes upon this right, amends this right, repeals this right, abridges this right, or restricts this right in any manner except regarding convicted felons as stated above.

Crunker1337
July 29, 2008, 06:23 PM
Only the federal government can create gun laws; in other words, all state and local gun laws are kaput.

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 29, 2008, 06:28 PM
Only the federal government can create gun laws; in other words, all state and local gun laws are kaput.

That seems somewhat opposite of the intent of the Constitution.

junyo
July 29, 2008, 06:33 PM
I would pass a law creating direct personal liability for unconstitutional restrictions and personal injury on legislators. If a gun law got passed that was later ruled unconstitutional, the taxpayers would be able to sue individual law makers who voted against the bill. If you were the victim of a crime, were able to prove to the 'reasonable man' standard that a weapon that you were prevented from having due to unconstitutional laws and/or onerous regulation would give you or your heirs basis to sue individual lawmakers to recover damages.

crebralfix
July 29, 2008, 06:36 PM
Rewrite the Second Amendment, since "shall not be infringed" is apparently meaningless:

The people have the right to keep arms of any sort* and to bear those arms in any manner they see fit.

No government, government entity or agent, law, policy, or contract, may restrict, tax, register, or interfere with this right, or any associated items in any way. Places to practice with arms are exempt from all regulation and taxes.

The people have the right to form militias for the protection of their country, state, county, community, and homes. The militias are the ultimate enforcers of the law, but power to enforce the law shall be delegated to the county sheriff**.

Only court houses and jails shall restrict the bearing of arms, and all shall provide a means to store the arms of visitors.

Defense of self and family is a right that shall not be interfered with. A person who engages in self-defense*** shall be immune from civil and criminal prosecution.

* I haven't decided what I think is acceptable. I just want to get it written.

**Still working this out, but the gist is that the militia ARE the cops. When they're not around, the sheriff does the work and can delegate authority. It could be "shared" with, but only at the will of the militia.

***I'm throwing around the words "lawful" and "legal" here.

I'm not sure on all the legal lingo, but good 'nuff. You get the drift.

DRYHUMOR
July 29, 2008, 06:40 PM
Uniformity across the nation.

Open or concealed carry, owners option.

No purchase or possesion for felons, mentally ill, or domestic abusers.

K3
July 29, 2008, 06:42 PM
The one thing I would change about gun laws is their very existence.

Sums it up for me.

Old Grump
July 29, 2008, 06:43 PM
Only restrictions would be court determined for people who are violent criminals and those legally determined to be mentally challenged, or ill who are a threat to themselves or others.

dcal
July 29, 2008, 06:53 PM
One thing? I would make some provision that any gun control law is an unacceptable restriction on a basic human right.







Oh wait, there already is a provision like that... Nevermind.

G36-UK
July 29, 2008, 07:26 PM
If I could change one thing, there would only be one law.

Since the words of the 2A are "Keep and Bear", here's my law:

Any weapon that can be carried, maintained, loaded and brought to bear by an individual soldier* can be possessed by any person who can pass a NICS check, regardless of weapon classification**. Any requirement for such weapons beyond a NICS background check*** is prohibited. Bans on all cosmetic and safety attachments**** are prohibited.

Anything larger comes under NFA background check and transfer (no CLEO sign-off required).

It'll never happen, but I think it's a little better than the current situation, no?

*As I recall, the smallest nuclear weapons needed either two people to carry it or maintain it (could be wrong here), so that should shut up the antis who go on about that.

**By "classification", I mean handgun, bolt-action, semi-auto, automatic, etc.

***Licensing, registration, etc.

****Silencer bans and AWBs, bye!

230RN
July 29, 2008, 07:49 PM
crunker1337 said,

Only the federal government can create gun laws; in other words, all state and local gun laws are kaput.

Crunker1337, you can only say that from the viewpoint of your own state.

And you, G36-UK, can only say that from the viewpoint of your own country.

No federal gun law is acceptable, no matter how good they look from New Jersey or the UK.

And I can't believe how many folks on this site have bought into the idea that NICS checks, etc, are acceptable.

You, sirs and mesdames, have been brainwashed.

There. I said it and I ain't takin' it back.

JWF III
July 29, 2008, 08:10 PM
I'd say start by repealing all the gun laws in the nation.

And put one law on the books that might actually help with saving a few of the children. That would be to make it a felony for any person to not keep their weapon in their control. In other words, if an adult leaves a gun/knife/etc. where a child can get to it, if said child commits a crime, or injures some one by accident, the child and the adult will both face charges.

I've always thought that if some of the less responsible adults could face charges if their kid, or friend of said kid, found their gun and had an AD while playing with it, it might make the adult a little more thoughtful about responsibilities of gun ownership.

I can't see where any responsible adult (pro-gun or anti) would have a problem with this law being passed. And to quote the anti's (even though I hate quoting them), "if it saved just one child, it would be worth it."

Y'all go ahead and shoot holes in my idea, I'm a big boy. I can take it.

Wyman


I'd also like to apologize to all of you (grammar Nazis) reading this, and to all of my past grammar teachers, for the run-on sentences. I'm sorry!!!

Conqueror
July 29, 2008, 09:09 PM
I think you guys are overreaching the spirit of this question when you say "I'd abolish all of them." That's not changing one thing, that's changing thousands of things.

If I could change one single paragraph of law, I would repeal the Hughes Amendment. If I could overturn one single law, it would be the NFA.

230RN
July 30, 2008, 12:09 AM
The overreaching is borne of frustration.

"Only one law."

"Only one other law."

"Oh, and we ought to..."

Why stop at the NFA?

Why stop at GCA 68?

Why stop at the Hughes Amendment?

The dynamics of compromise are such that it behooves us to over-reach our objectives in order to achieve a compromise --temporarily only --satisfactory to us.

And don't you think the anti-gunners are well-versed in these dynamics?

I would rather have seen the OP pose a question (maybe a poll) which would establish a ranking of all the major gun laws in terms of how onerous any particular gun laws are.

Here's my position: "Gun laws: Roll 'em all back!"

Now. Let's start "compromising" on that.

(And, JWF, we got along without such a law for hundreds of years... mainly because guns were commonplace and did not have the forbidden fruit attraction. And knives? Who among us did not carry a knife, perhaps the famous Barlow, all the way from elementary school to...? )

See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbletypeg

sm
July 30, 2008, 12:21 AM
buzz_knox wrote:

The one thing I would change about gun laws is their very existence.


I'm with buzz on this one-

ronnieevans40
July 30, 2008, 12:52 AM
I would if King for the day, change gun law to reflect the 2nd amendment. To keep and bear arms. This is the one and only law.

Stevie-Ray
July 30, 2008, 01:24 AM
Simply make the Second Amendment the law of the land. Any other gun laws are null and void.

dmazur
July 30, 2008, 01:52 AM
It looks like the various anti- states and cities will be addressed in the next few years, if not sooner.

So, if I could change one thing about gun laws, it would be that employers aren't special cases. If the right to self-defense is a civil right, then that should not be abridged any more than any other civil right for both customers and employees.

In other words, possession of a gun should not be a crime, no matter where you are.

And, just to simplify things, I'd grant an exception to the pro-TSA folks who believe air travel is safer with everyone disarmed. I believe that one is just too much for anyone to go for...

230RN
July 30, 2008, 03:33 AM
So, if I could change one thing about gun laws, it would be that employers aren't special cases. If the right to self-defense is a civil right, then that should not be abridged any more than any other civil right for both customers and employees.

That, Sir, is a darned good point!

My compliments.

mwm1331
July 30, 2008, 04:01 AM
Universal open-carry.
Thats my little wish.

TAB
July 30, 2008, 04:21 AM
I would remove LEO exemptions. Let them fallow the same laws as every one else. I bet if that were to happen alot of gun laws would be rewritten.

No I'm not talking about machine guns.

Drgong
July 30, 2008, 10:47 AM
as the OP, I was wondering what was the most hated gun law. Wasn't trying to say that there is only one law to be changed ;)

scrat
July 30, 2008, 01:58 PM
it would be against the law for any state, county or city from infringing the 2nd amendment. Any attempt to infringe on those rights would be punishable by 10 year prison sentence. 2nd attempt would be life in prison. public politcal officials that violate this law, mandatory life in prison. All assets must be auctioned off and proceeds given to gun education centers across the country.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 30, 2008, 02:15 PM
:)

1st: Repeal the unconstitutional '86 ban (technically a moratorium) on the manuf/import of machine guns (or at least on the manufacture if not the import, to favor American business interests).

2nd Place: Overturn as unconstitutional any law under which a state or municipality restricts the type of weapon capable of being owned by citizens. All so-called "AWBs" and handgun bans, etc., are gone; dead.

3rd Place: Repeal the unconstitional "Lautenberg law" completely, to the extent that it applies to misdemeanors and civil TROs. States (only) may pass similar laws on a state by state basis, with respect to domestic violence, but may only deprive the RKBA if one is a convicted felon. They are free to make whatever they want to be a "felony", a felony, however.

4th Place: NFA Amendments: Repeal all restrictions on SBSs, SBRs, AOWs, and suppressors. NFA items consist solely of machine guns. Lower the tax stamp amounts for NFA items to $.50 (50 cents) in 1934 dollars, adjusted for inflation automatically each year, tied to the CPI. (Not sure what that would be today, but it would be under $200). [Edit - on second thought, what the hell am I thinking? Repeal the NFA in its entirety!]

5th Place: Pass a law that says that BATFE shall never under any circumstances utilize the phrase or the principle "sporting purposes" as a test for *any reason*, recognizing that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting or shooting competitions, and everything to do with militia/protecting against tyrants, self-defense, etc.

6th Place: Fund the BATFE program to allow rehabilitated felons to apply to re-instate their RKBA, once their debt to society has been paid, and administer the program fairly, with objective guidelines/criteria based on scientific data on the likelihood of recitivism, the scale of violence of the original crime, etc. (For example, drug users get their RKBA back instantly upon being released from jail and applying, since their crime was not violent at all).

7th Place: Go to Alaka/Vermont style carry in every state - nationally, such that on every square foot of outdoor dirt in the US of A, one can carry openly or concealed, license or not. States only (not cities) can use their discretion to prohibit carry in public buildings, etc., on a state by state basis. But, states that don't allow carry literally everywhere will have federal funding for roads withheld - they can make that choice.

8th Place: To make our skies safe again, create a CCW-style licensing scheme, such that if you have passed the background check and done the training, you can carry a weapon on an airplane - handgun, knife, etc.

9th Place: Change D.D.s to anything larger than 20mm (over .79 inches bore size), instead of .50. Leave an exception in place for larger Nitro calibers / 8 bore / 4 bore, etc. (African cartridges). This allows 20mm rifles with no hassles / license.

10th Place: (gonna get flamed for this one). Require the NICS/Brady background check for ALL transfers, even private transfers, regardless of whether done at gun shows or not. This would keep guns from being sold to criminals, either on purpose or inadvertently, which would help reduce crime, and thus be GOOD for us, the law-abiding.

Actually, I'm going to re-think my order on these and re-arrange later. But the #1 in bold will still be #1.

And then we wake up...

M203Sniper
July 30, 2008, 02:51 PM
That seems somewhat opposite of the intent of the Constitution.


Incorporation. Google it.

ozwyn
July 30, 2008, 03:09 PM
I think everyone else covered the big points better than I could.

Wouldn;t mind repealing all firearm restrictions put in place not by LAW, but by the misuse/abuse of EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

Luku
July 30, 2008, 03:29 PM
I think it is horrible and stupid that many states ccw permits reject applicants because they have restrictions on mental illness absent any adjucation/commitment.

Spirit of 34
July 30, 2008, 03:58 PM
It would be a toss up between many "single things" (which numerous individual laws may require changing to get accomplished)...

But I think my one thing would be that carry permits are either abolished (in favor of Vermont style everywhere) or that any state CCW permit was valid in the same way a DL is valid: Everywhere.

Close second may be that full auto was treated same as semiauto for legal purposes, though that wouldn't really have any practical application. And with ammo prices being what they are now, the fun factor may be limited as well.

That pretty much sums up my opinions on what I would want changed. National Vermont-style concealed carry especially. States should be giving "full faith and credit" to other states' permits anyways under the US Constitution.

But if I were to change one single law, it would likely be repeal of the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.

Win52D
July 30, 2008, 04:15 PM
Not really a repeal....lets just add some teeth to some...how about a mandatory (no parole possible) 15 year jail term for a) illegal possesion of a firearm b) commision of a crime with a firearm (assault, burglury felony etc)

Spirit of 34
July 30, 2008, 04:37 PM
Not really a repeal....lets just add some teeth to some...how about a mandatory (no parole possible) 15 year jail term for a) illegal possesion of a firearm b) commision of a crime with a firearm (assault, burglury felony etc)

Problem with a) is that there are already too many laws criminalizing gun ownership in the first place. Let's say you live in Roxbury, Massachusetts (a dangerous neighborhood in Boston) and you apply to the Boston Police for a gun permit, but since permits in Mass are discretionary and the Boston Police make it next to impossible to get a permit, even though you have a clean criminal record you are denied. But you decide you should protect yourself and family anyways so you get an "illegal" gun-- would you really think it fair that if the police catch you with it, say on a routine traffic stop, that you now go to jail for a minimum of 15 years? Just because you wanted to keep your family safe and ridiculous gun laws made you into a criminal for owning a gun?

Problem with both laws is we already have the highest incarceration rate in the world and prisons are already overcrowded. Reform the drug and prostitution laws to clear out the jails of non-violent offenders, and establish meaningful rehabilitation and re-entry programs, then I'll support you on part b) of your proposal. But our jails, prisons and courts are already overtaxed as it is, we need to get that under control before increasing sentences for armed robbery and such.

Defensory
July 30, 2008, 06:43 PM
Posted by DrGong:
Mine would be that Local and state governments cannot regulate firearms except for the locations of gun stores though zoning, and gun stores must be treated as a common retail establishment.

So you would prefer that the central government make all gun laws, as was the case in Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, Red China, Cambodia etc?

No thanks! When it comes to firearms laws, I'll support states' rights to my last breath.

Ragnar Danneskjold
July 30, 2008, 07:05 PM
If you'e not comfortable answering the question the OP asked, you don't have to post. "All of them" is the easy answer. The OP is trying to get you to think about the laws and which one you would remove if you could only remove one. Really think about the question, don't just spit out the easy "all of them" answer and avoid answering the question.

I would repeal laws again SBRs, especially in Michigan.

crebralfix
July 30, 2008, 07:07 PM
My view is that if a criminal is allowed out of jail, then they have their rights...including RKBA.

Key phrase: allowed out of jail.

If they're habitual offenders, why let them out? All that paperwork is expensive.

tblt
July 30, 2008, 07:08 PM
I would like to carry anywhere

glockman19
July 30, 2008, 07:15 PM
But I think my one thing would be that carry permits are either abolished (in favor of Vermont style everywhere)
Vermont is the only state following the 2nd Amendment. I'd do nothnig but follow the 2nd Amendment. "Shal not be infringed"

I'm not sure I can add much more.

230RN
July 30, 2008, 09:38 PM
If you'e not comfortable answering the question the OP asked, you don't have to post. "All of them" is the easy answer.

Jis' 'cause it's the easiest, don't mean it ain't the best.

And we're still tacking on our own personal little "additions" and "qualifications" to firearms laws.

Enough!

Enough!

XDJ
July 31, 2008, 04:31 AM
Since I'm in California, it certainly isn't just one law so I will group them into what I'll refer to as Goldilocks Laws.

Any law that makes a gun illegal because it's too big, small, cheap, scary, black, has too many convenient grips, can be fired to fast or easily...

I'm sorry it's not just one law, but one law in California would just be replaced by 20 new laws.

GarandOwner
July 31, 2008, 07:03 AM
NFA guns would NOT require the $200 tax stamp

230RN
July 31, 2008, 09:59 AM
"NFA guns would NOT require the $200 tax stamp"

Yeah, so they'll make it $2000.

Be careful how you wish for things.

Vern Humphrey
July 31, 2008, 10:10 AM
Why do we need gun laws? They certainly don't reduce crime.

dmazur
July 31, 2008, 10:51 PM
I don't like the idea of gun laws, either. I'm afraid they're so entrenched that we may never see the repealing of all of them.

So, if we accept that they are a necessary evil, I believe they should be structured so they cause the least possible interference with "lawful" uses (I'm aware this is a circular argument...) such as self-defense, hunting, target shooting, whatever.

Any gun laws should be concerned about gun safety.

I remember seeing a bumper sticker not too long ago that suggested that gun control was "tight groups". Well, maybe this isn't that crazy.

I suppose I could live with government regulations that were basically a statement of the Four Rules. I have no idea how they would be enforced, but this would at least make some kind of sense.

Forget muzzle control? Didn't keep your finger off the trigger and put a round into your leg? $50 fine - first offense, etc.

This will never occur, but it would be a lot easier to live with than the onerous, conflicting jumble of laws we have at present.

230RN
August 1, 2008, 12:10 AM
If a little law is good, a lotta laws is better.

Right?

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