New one? .450 Short Colt


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Bart Noir
July 29, 2008, 07:38 PM
Being made by Fiocchi, with a registered trademark symbol on the name. (look at last entry in the table)

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=453961

I guess this is for people who have old .45 Colt sixguns and are a bit unsure of full power loads.

And ain't it a cute little thing :cool:

Bart Noir

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Gary A
July 29, 2008, 09:21 PM
Like a moderate-powered .45 acp. Wouldn't .45 Auto-rim be a "short colt"?

Seafarer12
July 29, 2008, 09:26 PM
Well they had short colts and long colts then they dropped the shorts and they just became colts. I guess they figured on reviving an old caliber,

Navy joe
July 29, 2008, 09:26 PM
I guess that gives some more ammo :p to gun shop owners who reply "Has there ever been a short Colt?" when a customer asks to buy a box of .45 Long Colt.

TehK1w1
July 29, 2008, 09:48 PM
Of course, the actual designation is "45 Colt", people just put the "long" in there, never been sure why.

Ron James
July 29, 2008, 10:07 PM
.45 Short colt could be for people who want to shoot the correct ammo in their original Army Schofield revolver ( or even a reproduction). It used a shorter round than the Colt single action then in use. That's also where the term 45 Long Colt came from. BTW youngins, I have seen old , very old Colt cartridge boxes marked .45 Long Colt. This is a subject that has been discussed long and hard on this forum. nothing new about the term Short Colt or Long Colt.:)

machinisttx
July 29, 2008, 11:01 PM
^^^^^^^

I'm not sure what the actual military designation was, but the shorter cartridge for the S&W #3 and Schofield revolvers is known as the .45 S&W or .45 Schofield.

The shorter cartridge can be fired in guns chambered for .45 Colt, but only every other chamber could be loaded on the SAA due to the wider rim of the Schofield round--from what I have read anyway.

The Lone Haranguer
July 29, 2008, 11:11 PM
I am 98% certain I've read somewhere that this is another name for a round used in old (c. 1880s) English revolvers. A quick search only turned this (http://mselect.free.fr/glossaries/denominations7.htm) up, however. (Scroll down to near the bottom of the page.)

Hypnogator
July 29, 2008, 11:44 PM
Well they had short colts and long colts then they dropped the shorts and they just became colts.
Errr, no. There is no .45 "Long" or "Short" Colt. The original .45 Colt cartridge was adopted by the U.S. Army when they went to the 1873 "Peacemaker" revolver. Later, the Army (or, actually, numerous ranking Army officers) began acquiring S&W Schofield revolvers chambered for the .45 Schofield, which is shorter and slightly less powerful than the .45 Colt. Since the Schofield cartridge would fire in the Colt revolvers, to simplify logistics, the Army switched to procuring .45 Schofield cartridges exclusively. The .45 Colt became popularly referred to as the .45 Long Colt to distinguish it from the .45 Schofield, then being used in Colt and Schofield revolvers. There was never a .45 Short Colt, and there is no difference between the .45 Colt and .45 Long Colt, unlike the .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long.

Bezoar
July 29, 2008, 11:59 PM
http://www.ammo-one.com/450RevolverAdamsShortColt.html

Wow, the first centerfire handgun ammunition used by the british army, circa 1868. The .450 adams. Just one of those cartridges with 50 names.

Aparently safe for use in .455 webleys.

Kinda cool fact to learn. But for that price, id check to make sure the case and rim diamater and thickness were the same as in 45 colt or 45 schofield and cut the closest cases down to make this caliber.

Basically its an historically accurate cartridge that was recently reintroduced by a member of the firingline forums in the cowboy section. Had a large special run of 45 colt cases cut down in length to give an internal volume equal to the internal volume of the .45 ACP. I believe they had to make a new caliber out of it, think they used "45 cowboy" or "45 cas"

Ron James
July 30, 2008, 02:28 PM
:) So, if some one now walked into a gun shop, threw their money down and stated " I would like a box of Short Colt and a Box of Long Colt " they can now do so with out a 30 minuet dissertation on proper terminology???? :)

20nickels
July 30, 2008, 02:37 PM
Gary in post #2. No, autorim has a double thick rim to correct for no moonclip in a 45ACP revolver.

Jim K
July 30, 2008, 02:56 PM
There were some 8285 S&W Schofield revolvers purchased by the U.S. Army, so they were used by other than "high ranking officers."

The Army designation for the common cartridge was simply ".45 Revolver Ball Cartridge" until 1882 when the solid head round was designated the Model 1882. The short round was first issued in 1874 and from the time the .45 Colt was phased out until the end of the SAA era, was the ONLY .45 revolver cartridge issued to Army troops, as well as the round issued for use in the SAA revolvers sent to the Philippines later.

The adoption of the Model 1909 brought in a new cartridge, the Ball Cartridge, Cal. .45, Model 1909, which was the same as the .45 Colt with a larger rim. It was made only by Frankford Arsenal and will work in the SAA only by loading every other chamber.

Jim

Bart Noir
July 30, 2008, 05:06 PM
I started this one, and found more info, thanks to my buddy.

That .450 Short Colt (Registered) is basically a smokeless powder .450 Adams. But why do they bother to make it? There can't be all that many people wanting to shoot those old revolvers, can there?

Bart Noir
Who notes that this use of Short Colt is very modern, not from dusty days long past.

calaverasslim
July 30, 2008, 05:06 PM
There was a feller on the SASS Wire that developed what he called a 45 Cowboy Colt round. Basically a 45 Colt round, cut down to 45acp length. Loaded like a 45acp but fired in the 45 Colt revolver.

:what:

razorblade31
July 30, 2008, 06:31 PM
Actually there was a short colt. The 45 schofield would not operate in some SAAs because the rim is larger than that of the 45 colt. a hybrid cartridge was developed with the length of the schofield but the rim of the colt so that there would be ammuntion that could work in both guns.

wheelgunslinger
July 30, 2008, 08:44 PM
wow. A thread about the 450 short colt, and it only took 5 posts to turn into the same old debate about long colt.
Nice! :D

I'm interested in this round and what it might have been historically used for or whether it is a new loading for the SASSy folk.

Wheelgunslinger- who bets that if he lays 20 bucks on the counter and asks for 45 long colt, you'll find some to sell me and keep your opining to yourself.

Navy joe
July 30, 2008, 10:04 PM
Hee! What a long mess I started. :p

Jim Watson
July 30, 2008, 11:33 PM
I think the problem is that we have an Italian company and an English product.

CotW says that the same round has been known as .450 Adams, .450 Revolver, .450 Short, AND .450 Colt (but .450 Webley is not the same.)

On the other hand, Boothroyd just says ".450" in most but not all cases referring to Adams, Tranter, and early Webley revolvers.
However, he describes the Colt SAA as being available in .450 Boxer and .450 Eley (in addition to the later .455 Webley.) Colt shipping records back that up with separate totals for .450 Boxer and .450 Eley.

So how many short .45s do we have from that side of the Pond? I dunno and maybe Signore Fiocchi doesn't, either.

Gary A
July 31, 2008, 12:00 AM
No, autorim has a double thick rim to correct for no moonclip in a 45ACP revolver.

Ah, thank you, 20 nickels.

The Lone Haranguer
July 31, 2008, 12:33 AM
That .450 Short Colt (Registered) is basically a smokeless powder .450 Adams. But why do they bother to make it? There can't be all that many people wanting to shoot those old revolvers, can there?
Apparently there are. Until recently Fiocchi made 5.7mm Velo Dog. I would guess there are more old English revolvers around than Velo Dogs. :D

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