Ballistic Tip versus SP/JSP/PSP


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Jason M
July 30, 2008, 11:44 AM
So basically, ballistic tips versus the whole of the soft point community...

Which do you feel is better; more accurate, etc.?

I would think that if the ballistic tip was manufactured symetrical that it would be the superior round, but show me the light if I am in the dark on this.

-Jason

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K3
July 30, 2008, 12:46 PM
In my experience, BTs are more accurate.

Also in my experience, they do a lot more damage even when placed properly. I hit a buck right in the heart/lungs from maybe 150 yards, and the exit hole was bigger than a softball. I'd hate to think what would have happened had I hit the front shoulder. This was with one of the Winchester factory loads using the 180gr Nosler BT bullet. I was shooting a .300 Win.

I use 60 gr VMax on varmints, and they work like a charm on bobcats and coyotes. Bobcats all DRT. Only had one yote run on me, and I hit him a second time and he DRT. First shot was a little off, so that was me.

MCgunner
July 30, 2008, 01:25 PM
I've found BTs to be quite accurate, but then, not really any more so than Sierra Game Kings and some others like Barnes, Hornady and such. IMHO, a good bullet is a good bullet. Yeah, use match bullets for matches, but where hunting goes, most premium bullets, if the gun likes 'em, are capable. Only your gun can tell you what it likes.

I haven't seen that meat destruction is all that bad with a 150 BT i .308. It's FAR less than a 150 Game King in 7 mag, for sure. And, that bullet, while it penetrates well on deer, opens even at .30-30 pistol velocities. Very versatile bullet. It has impressed me in both calibers/guns. I shot through the entire length of an 8 point ham to neck with a 150 BT. Total penetration and not much meat loss. That one really made me wonder why I'd used Barnes bullets in the past on hogs. The shot was from a .308 at about 30 yards on a running deer muzzle velocity just under 2800 fps. He fell right there with a big fist sized exit wound in his throat. Most of that was through internal organs, but the bullet went through a ham in the process. I have had NO complaints about bullet performance from the 150 .30 cal BT, put it that way.

critter
July 30, 2008, 02:01 PM
My experience with BT's mirrors K3's pretty much. I love 'em!

Use them in .223, 25-06, 30-06, 300 Win Mag, .35 Whelen.

BAT1
July 30, 2008, 03:42 PM
Since the subject is BT's, I just got some 180 gr Nosler .308 for real cheap. How much Varget is best behind them. Nothing in the Hodgdon book. I was going to start out a 43.5 gr and work up.

K3
July 30, 2008, 04:11 PM
I'd either get a Nosler book or I'd start with your generic '180gr jacketed' load and work up from the min.

NCsmitty
July 30, 2008, 07:56 PM
BAT1, You perhaps saw at the Nosler site that the max load for Varget behind the 165gr. was 46.0 gr.so 43.5 gr. of Varget behind the 180 gr. might be a little stiff to start. That long bullet hogs into the powder space on the short neck 308. Maybe someone has more info on this. I don't have access to my Nosler manual right now.

NCsmitty

Master of Arms
August 5, 2008, 10:15 PM
I love the BT`s. I used to live by`m but they`re expensive compared to Sierras etc. They`re accurate without a doubt but I don`t know how much more accurate they are than the Sierras. If you like`m stick with`m.
For the sake of stating it, a 180 grain sierra soft point with 66.7 grains of H4350 will make the game just as dead as a BT at any range.

Jst1mr
August 6, 2008, 05:24 PM
"ham to neck"... hope you're not teaching any youngsters how to "hunt".

K3
August 6, 2008, 06:43 PM
"ham to neck"... hope you're not teaching any youngsters how to "hunt".

Deer dead. Meat good. Didn't sound like any suffering.

What's the problem? It wasn't done your way? :rolleyes:

Jst1mr
August 6, 2008, 07:11 PM
To each his own...I was taught to aim at the vitals and minimize the loss of meat. In my state, it used to be "bucks only", and folks had to clearly identify an animal before shooting. When it became necessary to try and manage the deer herd, doe shooting was encouraged. What happened? Folks were able to blast away at that flag disappearing through the woods, and it became rare to sit on stand and not encounter limping, "butt-shot" deer passing by. I was taught, just like in bowhunting, to wait for the proper shot or don't take it. Guess I'm oversensitive...

Geno
August 6, 2008, 07:22 PM
Nosler's Boattail Ballistic Tips were very accurate in my firearms in .270 Winchester and .300 Weatherby Magnum. They always hit like sledgehammers. There was one problem. Even at 300 to 400 yards, the projectiles' jackets would separate completely from the lead core. The backstop may have contributed inasmuch as I was firing into a sand burm. That acknowledged, I also affirm that other brand projectiles (Remington, Hornady, Sierra, Speer and Barnes) did not separate. For varmint, Ballistic Tips. For deer, ram and boar, I used Partitians.

PotatoJudge
August 6, 2008, 07:32 PM
MCgunner, I'm sure your intent wasn't to shoot the deer in the rear. Sometimes with quick shots these things can happen, though we try to avoid them. I've taken shots I wish I hadn't (never wounded a deer thankfully) but we learn from those shots same as the good ones.

I'd say the price and toughness of the Partition are excessive for most NA game. The Nosler BT, Sierra GK and ProHunter are all comparably priced and perform very well. I can't say if one design is better than others, since I've been fortunate enough to have DRT kills only with them all. I do think the Ballistic Tip has probably saved me some looking after less than perfect shot placement.

dakotasin
August 6, 2008, 07:54 PM
ime nosler bt's are extremely accurate.

also, ime, you would have a tough time picking out a worse big game bullet.

i understand nosler has attempted to change the design a little since i had my blow-ups w/ them, but i'm not going to risk it.

tblt
August 6, 2008, 07:58 PM
I shoot balistic tips in my 270 and 7mm mag.They are the best bullet I have found and very acurate.They are hand loads.

My mag(winchester model 70 stainless synthetic) shoots 1/2 groups at 100 yard all the time

koja48
August 6, 2008, 09:43 PM
In my book, boat tails are more accurate . . . ballistic-tipped, they are devastating on predators.

K3
August 7, 2008, 10:19 AM
K3, I'm sure your intent wasn't to shoot the deer in the rear. Sometimes with quick shots these things can happen, though we try to avoid them. I've taken shots I wish I hadn't (never wounded a deer thankfully) but we learn from those shots same as the good ones.

I'd say the price and toughness of the Partition are excessive for most NA game. The Nosler BT, Sierra GK and ProHunter are all comparably priced and perform very well. I can't say if one design is better than others, since I've been fortunate enough to have DRT kills only with them all. I do think the Ballistic Tip has probably saved me some looking after less than perfect shot placement.

Ummm, read the posts again.

I wasn't the one that took the Texas Heart Shot.

K3
August 7, 2008, 02:13 PM
In my book, boat tails are more accurate . . . ballistic-tipped, they are devastating on predators.

I've got some .224 Swift Scirrocco IIs (75gr) I'm itching to try. Saturday I will test my loads for accuracy and velocity. I've got 3 sets loaded with H322 and 2 with RL15. Would have done a third, but the first two were already compressed. I still had 1.5gr to go to get to the max. I don't really like crunching my powder too much.

Given the accuracy of a 60grVMax in a 1-9, I am really anxious to see how these do in a 1-8. Long pills. They just LOOK accurate. With a 24" barrel, velocity shouldn't be a problem.

PotatoJudge
August 7, 2008, 07:39 PM
I said MCgunner, right? Looks like I did. Now if only I could get rid of the "Last edited by" part I might be able to get away with it.

Hogfan1911
August 7, 2008, 10:27 PM
Have used Winchester's Ballistic Silvertip, which if I remember right has a slightly thicker jacket than the original BST. It's performed very well for me out of a .280 Rem on several deer. Of course, these were AR deer, not the Midwestern brutes. Only 1 instance of excessive meat destruction, but that shot hit both shoulders.

K3
August 7, 2008, 10:33 PM
I said MCgunner, right? Looks like I did. Now if only I could get rid of the "Last edited by" part I might be able to get away with it.

:D

Well, I have gutshot a deer. Once. Jerked the trigger, anticipated the recoil, and it was a mess to field dress. That was when I first started hunting. Wish I could say I was 7 or 8, but I was 19 and my rifle shooting consisted of 'sighting in' at the range prior to deer season and whatever live fire I had on animals. I probably went through half a box a year. Since I started rolling my own, I shoot a LOT more and with each rifle. I don't care to deal with the stench of ruptured deer innards anymore, so I am a lot more disciplined and proficient when shooting.

I noticed you have used ProHunters. Care to comment on accuracy and performance on game compared to say Gamekings? I have a couple hundred .277 ProHunters in 130gr that have been gathering dust. My rifle loves the 140gr Gameking over 55 gr of IMR4831. For accuracy, it rivals my varmint rifle with its favorite loads. Knocked down a spike in Mississippi at 175 yards back in January. Hit EXACTLY where I intended it to, and the deer did not take a single step. Tasty tenderloins that evening.... :)

unlearned69
August 13, 2008, 12:10 PM
I prefer soft point bullets for hunting over ballistic tips or hollow points. First two deer I shot with with a small bore rifle shooting hollow points. Both times the bullets entered the heart, popped both lungs, diaphragm and stomach. No exit wounds.
I now shoot a .270 with Hornady sp ammunition. .277 entry holes, 1 1/2 inch exit wounds. Little to no lost meat.
Last year my wife used my moms old .243 with win ballistc tips to shoot her very first deer. The bullet went in b/w two ribs and appears to have exploded. All far side rib meat and shoulder meat was bloodshot. No exit wound, but several far side ribs were broken and shards of bullet were scattered in the tissue.
She now also shoots a .270 using win psp ammunition. Same results as with my rifle.

As said above, ballistic tips are great for varmints, but I don't think I'll ever shoot anything I plan on eating with them again.

uk roe hunter
August 13, 2008, 01:03 PM
i would always use softpoints on deer sized game. i have used ballistic tips before, it is important to appreciate that you can get hunting AND varmint ballistic tips. VARMINT tips are not suitable for deer and thier use should be discouraged. my favourite is speers hotcor.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/ukroehunter/DSCF1306.jpg

this is a 30 cal 150 gr speer hotcor dug from a big rotten log. they look just the same when i recover them from deer. However i have only ever recovered 2 from lots and lots of deer.

i found 150 gr 30 cal gamekings broke up a bit but that was with them being pushed VERY FAST from my .30-06.

the ballistic tips i have used fragment badly, lack knock down and make a mess

uk

PotatoJudge
August 13, 2008, 07:01 PM
K3, I haven't noticed any difference in performance with the PH vs GK. That having been said, I'm not a good enough shot to differentiate between a 1 MOA and a 1.5 MOA load (I'm working on that). The PH is useful to me using light-for-caliber bullets seated to the lands where a boattail won't seat properly. This had been an issue with a Ruger 77 in 7 Mauser loading 140 grain boattails in a gun whose throat was cut for up to 175 grain bullets. The 140s could be pulled by hand, but not when I used a flat based bullet.

For ballistic tips, I think it's important to use them in larger calibers (.25 or greater), to pick a heavy for caliber bullet if under 30 cal, and to keep the velocity under 3,000 fps. It seems there's a lot of opportunity for a BT to fail, but they can be made to work superbly.

Cypress
August 13, 2008, 07:31 PM
I found the ballistic tip to be pretty accurate but agree that they are a bit prone to blowing up. I've been using the Accubonds with good results in both accuracy and penetration.

oklahoma caveman
August 13, 2008, 08:21 PM
iv seen 2 deer shot with a ballistic tip that left much to be desired. the first i shot, a neck shot that thankfully was enough to break the deer down, but nonetheless it blew up on impact. the other was a friend. 270 hornady ballistic tip made for deer sized game. 80 yard behind the shoulder shot. we never found the deer . good blood for 20 yards, after that we followed the blood trail by pin prick drops for 60 yards. then the next blood was 200 yards away.
i do not like ballistic tips. just my .02. il stick with my corelokts

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