[floydster]

I see on the forum here that guys are shooting 1" groups out at 25 yards,
(75 ft). I think I need some input on my grip, stance, sight picture, trigger pull, breathing and anything else you guys can help me with.
I have taken classes on basic and advanced pistol shooting and I shoot at a
law enforcement range twice a month, and I am in the top 10 shooters at my range, but for the life of me, ( and everyone I shoot with) I can't even come close to that level of grouping, so any input sure would be appreciated.
I do shoot with top match pistols, so I know that isn't the problem.
And I have been at this for over 40 years, what am I doing wrong???
Thanks again for any help.
Floyd:confused:

[Claude Clay]

what type of handgun? a few pictures of your stance & grip would be helpful. this is something that really needs to be in person. a suggestion.....grip with strong hand and push the gun towards the target kinda hard. other hand with 2 fingers over the 3 others pulls the gun back with slightly less power. your shoulders take up the difference. for a right hander--feet at shoulder width, lead foot pointed at 12:30 other foot back & to the right pointed at 2:30. shoulders pointed at 1:30. target at noon. squeeez off your shot at the top or bottom of a breath. good luck practice with a good 22 at 25 feet. shoot in the 90's and and start practice with other calibers. keep moving target further away as you improve. figure 1000+ rounds will yield results.

[tipoc]

Well first off if and when you do see pics here with 1"-3" groups at 25 yards it is often from a rest. That is the shooter shot while seated and their gun hand on a rest. This type of shooting takes time to learn well and is valuable when it comes to experimenting with different handloads and in selecting the most accurate ammo from your handgun.

Shooting from a standing position 1" groups aren't all that common with standard service calibers. Rare in fact. Now a very good shooter can consistently do groups somewhere in the 1"-3" range while shooting from their preferred stance at 25 yards with the right gun and ammo combo but there are not a whole lot of shooters who can do that on demand. I don't stress on it that I can't. I just try to improve on what I can do.

If you get a good group at 15 yards shooting aimed fire with ammo that your gun shoots well than try it at 25. Try using a 2x2" bull at 15. Work on your trigger control and consistantcy. Dry fire, etc. I'm sure a number of folks will show up with a good deal of advice. My point is set your goals on improving what you do rather than being disappointed that you aren't shooting 1" groups with service calibers at 25 yards.

tipoc

[MrBorland]

Well first off if and when you do see pics here with 1"-3" groups at 25 yards it is often from a rest.

Yep - I find that's often the case.

I shoot standing 1- and 2-handed, so I automatically assume the shooter's doing the same. Turns out to be a big assumption, though, and often not accurate. For example, I just finished a book by a champion shooter, who, at the beginning of the book, states he's capable of 10-shot 1.5" groups at 50 yards with major loads. Holy #@%! In the appendix, though, he's got a section on group shooting, and clearly shows him shooting from a rest. Still good shooting, but without the clarification, I assumed it was offhand shooting.

In my, albeit limited experience, 3" to 2" at 25 yards offhand is good to very good for most shooters.

[tipoc]

Below is a useful, I think, thread from another section of the forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4758995#post4758995

Now, there are some good shots here. If you look and read what distance the shooter shot from and whether it was off hand or from a bench (a few forgot to mention which, as well as gun and caliber and bullet weight and type) you'll see that you can work on matching some of them and improving your skills. Which I try to do.

Note that none who posted mention that they are shooting typical NRA bullseye stance. A very good bullseye shooter can post under 4" groups at 50 yards from a one hand duelist stance. I can't do that at 25 yards.

tipoc

[420Stainless]

I can't help you with your technique because I'm probably below your skill level. However, I know the best bullseye shooters can keep them all in the 10 ring in slow fire 50 yd competitions firing with one hand. According to the NRA rule book, the 10 ring is 3.36 inches on the B-6 target. So the kind of accuracy some folks are bragging about is possible without using a rest. (oops. Sorry folks - I read tipoc's first post, but didn't realize I was rehashing his second)

I understand where you are coming from though. I do well just to get them in the black.

[AndyC]

Shoot at a shorter range (so you can immediately see the result of the shot) and use a much smaller target.

I'm fond of using 1" round black stickers at 10 yards - the aim being to put every bullet through the center of the sticker without breaking the outside edge. Focuses the mind wonderfully - aim small, miss small.

[JKimball]

I'm sure a number of folks will show up with a good deal of advice.

Haha...

Too true.

[Powderman]

Friend, when shooting any firearm there are two important factors, and only two: sight picture/alignment, and trigger control.

Your sight alignment should be consistent: blade centered and level with the rear notch.

Sight picture should be HARD on the front sight.

Your trigger pull should be more of a roll. Make sure you have proper contact with the trigger, then roll it straight back. Picture a cylinder rolling on a surface, and visualize that trigger moving on ball bearings.

Dry firing should help. Paste a target onto a wall, and assume the proper sight picture and alignment. With a CLEARED, EMPTY AND SAFE firearm, practice dry firing until you can make the hammer drop without disturbing the sight picture and alignment. Practice also calling your shot--watch those sights, and call where the sights were when the hammer falls.

One thing that might disturb you is the inability to hold the sight picture/alignment perfectly. Don't worry about it! Trust your "wobble"--concentrate on the smooth, steady movement of the trigger, and you will see good results.

I recommend starting on the B6 and B8 targets. Use one close in, and practice five-shot strings until you can keep all five in the X. Now, move the target back two paces, and do it again--all the way out to 25 yards.

Good luck, and good shooting!

[floydster]

Thanks everyone for the great tips, they will be very useful, I think I may have some bad habits I have to correct.
Floyd

[sqlbullet]

floydster

I just did a quick study on bullseye shooting. The current world record holder, Hershel Anderson (wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(shooting_competition))), shot a 2680-159X. Lets put that in perspective of our current discussion.

Mr. Anderson fired 90 rounds from 50 yards, and 180 rounds from 25 yards, all using a one-hand grip standing. His shooting at 50 yards allowed him a total of 90 minutes to place his shots (10 shots in 10 minutes) while at the 25 yard line the shots were in timed fire (5 shots in 20 seconds) and rapid fire (5 shots in 10 seconds). The 10 ring is 3.3" in size. The X ring is 1.7" in size.

So, in recorded competition, no one has ever placed ALL their shots in a circle 70% larger than 1" from 25 yards. If Mr Anderson had no X-ring shots at 50 yards (highly unlikely...at least 88 shots inside 3.3", but none inside 1.7") he still only managed to get (at most) 88% of his shots into 1.7" at 25 yards. Probably more like 75%.

You have received some great shooting advice in the previous posts. I have one thing to add. Salt. You may want to take some of the accuracy claims you see here with a grain.

[HiWayMan]

A sure way to improvement is regular practice. Shooting is a perishable skill. 50 quality shots a week are worth more than 500 half-a$$ed shots twice a month. Regular practice is the reason my scores improve in the fall, but suck in the spring.

[bakert]

One thing to remember. Although there are some very good shooters here, there also be others that sometimes get much better groups with a keyboard:D

[Z71]

I used to shoot some great groups with a handgun at up to 40-50 yds.

A lifetime of shooting rifles and handguns helps.

I notice since I shoot less now my accuracy has fallen off somewhat.

Yes, I would say practice is key. Get a good .22 handgun and just wear it out. Shoot the big ones enough to not flinch.

A good trigger is a huge plus to an accurate handgun. If the trigger is heavy and stiff, hard to hit anything because the pull will shift the gun.

Then some handguns just don't have the accuracy to shoot tight groups. Hard to shoot a 1" 25 yard group if the guns only capable of 4 or 5 inches!

[OFT]

I can consistantly shoot groups under 1" at 25 yards as long as I keep them to one shot groups. :)

[CountGlockula]

Since you've already taken some classes, what have they taught you?

Not to be blunt, but if you've reached Advanced status and shoot with top competition...

Have you improved since taking those courses? Doesn't sound like it. I'd get my money back.