[PeteyPete]

I've decided to due my patriotic duty to my country by purchasing a 1911 in the near future (nice excuse to spend some cash, huh?)and figured i'd pick the mind of some of you guru's on here.

I've decided i'd like to spend inbetween $500-700 on my first 1911 and in my cursory research decided that i'd probably go w/ either the Colt 1991A1 or Springfield "Loaded".

Can you guys give me any advise on either of these two pistols, or any other 1911's in that price range? I'd also appreciate if anyone could post any pics of the Colt 1991A1 Government "O1091".

[varoadking]

...but Springfield's quality is a crap shoot these days - enough to sour me on 1911's all together...:fire:

[Redlg155]

Picked up a SA loaded 1911 a month or so ago. So far the round count is close to 400 with no major problems. She's a sweet shooter and super accurate. Much more than the HK USP C .45 that I previously had.

I've heard of lots of reports on folks that were extremely happy with their Milspec SAs as well.



Goood Shooting
Red

[45auto]

Due to the variety of 1911's, I would pick what features you want or don't want.

The Colt goverment is a very good gun, IMO, but if you want better sights, extended beavertail and safety, then add at least $200 to the cost. It may be within your budget- close anyway!

The Springfield loaded has these features, so it's a much better buy for the money. They are endless debates on which is better, so the safe route is to assume you will spend an additional $50-100 on better mags and perhaps have the extractor adjusted. You may need to do nothing...but!

Do you want or care whether it has a firing pin safety?
If you want one, then Colt has the best safety- IMHO.
Others, like Kimber and S&W have a grip activated safety.
Some models have external extractors also.

Too many choices, but if I had to pick the most gun for the money, and your first 1911, I'd go with a Springfield loaded. They also make one with an adjustable sight which may or may not fit your budget.

[Quartus]

Consider a Sistema. Buy cheap, then customize after you've shot it a while and know what you want.

http://www.cruffler.com/JLD.html

[10-Ring]

I've had a Colt & a SA Mil Spec and liked them both alot...I also like Kimbers and I'm starting to warm up to the SW1911 too. As production 1911's go, just get the one that you like best and can get the best deal on ;)

[mainmech48]

Both of my "loaded" Springfields, a Champion and a 1911A-1, have proven to be exceptional values, IMHO.

The Champion has had 7K+ through it, including nearly 2300 in one five day period during a Defensive Pistol class at the Chapman Academy. It has only required one extractor adjustment and a new recoil spring. It will feed fired cases from the mag and still shoots into 3 1/2" or better at 25 yds with my bifocal-clad eyes. SS, ambi thumb safety, Novak tritiums, "bushingless" HB, very good-to-excellent fit and finish, all for $675 retail plus tax.

My 1911A-1 came with standard (non-tritium) Novaks and conventional barrel w/bushing. Fitting of all major components is on par with a Big Name custom 1911 in which I have almost 3X the money. From a borrowed Ransom rest, it put 10 rds of Federal 230 gr. Match into 2 1/4" at 50 yds. It has been 100% reliable through nearly 4K rds. of everything from 185 gr. LSWC target reloads to +P Cor-Bons, including the infamous "Flying Ashtray" from Speer/CCI. It cost me $650, including S&H, tax, and transfer fee.

If Springfield's QC is truly as much of a "crap shoot" as I've read here and on other boards, perhaps I'd better start buying lottery tickets.

[PCRCCW]

The best deal in 1911's is the basic Kimber and SA loaded. Apart from the usual "questionable quality" that you hear about these guns...look around and see what grabs your attention.

As far as the quality of either gun...LOOK AT THE GUN YOU WANT TO BUY...field strip it, check trigger feel, safety fit, frame/slide rail fit etc....you can tell alot about the guns quality.

A tighter fitting, sweeter trigger''d gun that is 25$ more than the looser version down the street is worth it IMO.

Most makers offer very good firearms these days....check around and you never know what you'll stumble across.

Shoot well

[Jason Demond]

I bought 2 Springfields (1 Stainless & 1 Parkerized) back in 99, both have been great guns. The only problems I had, was the two piece guide rod would loosen under fire. The finish on the parked gun has held up well, but I just don't care for the look or feel of it.

[CWatson]

As mentioned by VAROADKING above,springfields quality is hit or miss right now.Their customer service is even spottier than their quality.

However right now Colt's latest production 1991s are getting good reviews as far as fit,finish,reliability,and accuracey.The new Colts are only a few more $ and hold their value much better.CW

[Rob96]

I have one of the new production stainless Colts and love it. They are truly making a great 1911 these days. Stone cold reliable right out of the box. I have about 600 rounds thru mine, mostly JHP, and not one problem. I think these are the best buy going right now.

[Thirties]

"I've decided i'd like to spend inbetween $500-700 on my first 1911 and in my cursory research decided that i'd probably go w/ either the Colt 1991A1 or Springfield "Loaded"."

You really owe yourself a good look at the Kimber 1911 models.

[Keith]

If you're doing your "patriotic duty" why buy a gun made by a Brazilian company?

Keith

[Kruzr]

IMHO, your best value would be a base model Kimber. Field strip a Kimber and a SA loaded in the same price range. You will see the quality difference in the finish inside the gun. Look for machine chatter marks on the inside of the slide, dust cover and especially the rails. The Kimbers will be smooth, the SA's can be used for a nail file.

And most of all, don't be swayed by a "written lifetime guarantee". Kimber will fix your gun as long as you own it. In my experience, Kimber's customer service puts Springfields "self-declared......best in the business" to shame.

[Quartus]

springfields quality is hit or miss right now.Their customer service is even spottier than their quality.


Non-existent, in my experience. Expect to the strung along and lied to.


Springfield? Never again.

[FB3]

I feel that the Colt 1991A1 is probably the best quality base 1911 patern pistol available now. Colt had its problems up until a few years ago, but has really rebounded and is producing high quality reliable pistols now. The Kimbers have gone down hill, have a lot of issues with internal parts, and their internal safety system is buried deep in the slide, and if it breaks, the pistol is rendered inoperative. Springfields are OK, but hit and miss. Overall quality and value definitely lies with the Colt. I know that there are many folks who have had very good experiences with a lot of the brands offered now, but Colt is back in a big way. By the way, I was not too enamored with Colt products for a while, but they have really improved in the last two or three years. They also hold their value quite well. I have had several recent Colts extensively worked on by well known smiths, and they are great. I also have several right out of the box that are just fine. Best wishes in your quest. There are a lot of choices available.

[mparris71]

Best advice is to go and look at all the models compare prices and features you want. Look for the quality of fit and finish. If the model of 1911 you chose doesn’t have the features you desire because of money restrains research how much it will cost for a good smith to add them later. I was really debating a similar decision two weeks ago. I was trying to decide weather to buy a SS Colt 1991 and have it customized or a SS Springfield TRP. Looked at both was really impressed with the quality of Springfields fit and finish out of the box. End up with the TRP, Slide to frame fit is tight as a friend’s Wilson CQB. The TRP shoots like a dream out of the box. I had a lot of reservations about Springfield after hearing spotty reports of QC, but don’t count them out look them over. BTW if you decide to go the Custom route Colt is the best choice IMHO for a base gun. Another point for the Colt is the resale value, People are willing to pay more for the brand name.
Hope what ever you pick serves you well.
MP

[rbert0005]

You may want to check out the Dan Wesson PATRIOT, or the Pointman.

The Patriot comes out of the factory with the guarantee of less than 2" groups from 50'.

Bob

[PeteyPete]

I'm going to have to start narrowing it down...I'd prefer a gun made in the USA, so i'll probably end up w/ either a Colt, Kimber or Dan Wesson.

I really like the history and lineage that comes along w/ the Colt name, especially on something like a 1911. I also want something that is customizable, accurate, and durable enough to take a serious pounding at the range.

Rbert0005, i never really looked into the Wesson Patriot...very impressive and nice looking pistol. I was checking out the site and it says that:
If a Patriot fails to group less than 1.5" for the entire five shot group it cannot be considered Patriot Proofed and will not be shipped.
http://www.danwessonfirearms.com/proof.htm

Thats a pretty high standard! Does anyone have any experience w/ these pistols, or any info on the quality of the metals they use and their durability?

[rbert0005]

Pete,

Check out the www.1911forum.com/forums/ site. There is enough info there to go crazy with.

Bob

[PeteyPete]

I just went over there and posed the question.....I think i'm leaning towards the Wesson Patriot Expert...w/ all the extras, that gun is an amazing value ($679.00 over at sportingarms.com).

My only concern is the reliabilty due to the closer tolerances, and the quality of metals used in the Wesson. I plan on shooting a 700+ rounds a week through this thing..i wanna make sure it can stand up to the rigors i plan to put it through.

[rbert0005]

I don't see a problem with the round count. It has better components than a lot of other " off the shelf guns"

Bob

[John Forsyth]

Due to a spot bonus from work, I had that much to throw at a pistol. Looked hard at a SA Loaded parkerized. Then along comes a stainless NRM 1991 for approx. the same price. After handling both, it wasn't a question at all, the Colt had a new home. The quality of these new Colts is great. Do yourself a favor, get the real deal, a Colt .45.

[Kim du Toit]

My SA Mil-Spec just passed the 2,000 round mark. Not a whimper of trouble.

If you get any Springfield 1911, Step 1 should be to remove the mag, hammer it flat, and throw it away. Then get half a dozen Chip McCormick 8-round PowerMags, and shoot away.

[Jason Demond]

Kim
What kind of magazines came with your Springfield?

Mine came with Mec-Gar's, and I haven't had a single problem with them. I wonder what other brands of mags Springfield uses.

[308win]

Colt 1991A1 works first time every time. No problems. Had a Millett adjustable sight installed along with a new front sight - I think the front sight is too short as I have to adjust the rear sight very high to get POI. I have one Wilson Combat 8rd mag (gave over $35.00 for it - got took but oh well) and 5 Chip MacCormick 8rd mags for less than 11.00 each. No diff in perfomance of mags - the Wilson appears higher quality and is made of heavier stampings wiht plastic follower but the performance of the Wilson and Chip McCormicks are same. I leave them both loaded and wouldn't hesitate to grab the CM first although I admit I leave the Wilson in the pistol.

[Poohgyrr]

FWIW, my wife is partial to her Colt 1991 A1, stock except for some minor action work. It's been reliable and accurate.

Of course, she also likes my Hi Power, truly a fantastic pistol. :)

[mparris71]

What kind of magazines came with your Springfield?
Mine came with Metal Form 7rders, very good mags.

[triage1998]

PeteyPete...I picked up a NRM Colt 1911 this summer. I was looking at either the Springfield Milspec or the NRM Colt. Saw a blued NRM Colt "NIB" for 5 bills and snatched her up (best price I've ever seen on a NRM Colt)I have about 500 rounds through her so far without a hitch. NRM Colts are getting great reviews over at 1911forums.com.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pf86a4f8ab7353259f68e84a696d50c39/fbe8cb90.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p55d7c19334ff9d98c11a9cdf5db0b72a/fbe8c915.jpg

[PeteyPete]

triage1998, great find and beautiful gun!

I'm really torn here...I love the name and history that goes along w/ the Colt name...but i love the extras that the Patriot comes with. I have no idea what i'm going to do.

Colt 1991A1 "Gubament Model" vs. Dan Wesson Patriot Expert :banghead:

I have time to sort it out though, i have to wait for some extra handgun permits to come in from my local police chief. For all those who don't already know...stay outta Jersey. :barf:

[Siggyboy]

Petey,

Here's some things to consider....both are very good guns, it really just depends on what features you prefer.

The Patriot has an external extractor. The 1911 extractor has always been one of the weaker links (along with crappy mags) in the otherwise almost perfect design. An external extractor will not need to be tuned & polished, have the tunnel cleaned, etc. That said, I don't like the looks of them, especially on a blued model, and I've never had a problem with the standard 1911 extractor. 1911 purests usually don't care for the external extractors. In any case, I think this is mostly a looks issue.

Both the Patriot and the Colt use high quality forged steel slides and frames. Colt is well known for its good steel and the Patriot uses quality slides & frames supplied by S&W (as does, or at least did, Kimber & Wilson).

I find the Colt grip tang to be uncomfortable and need to install a beavertail grip safety. The Colt tang digs into my hand and I can't get a good high grip with it. If you prefer a beavertail safety, you'll have to get one installed on the Colt. Also, the Colt sights are rather primative and the gun has some sharp edges. Other than that, the Colt is a great gun!

The Patriot comes standard with a beavertail safety (CMC safety that is nickel plated so on the stainless gun the finish doesn't quite match). The Patriot also comes with much better sights than the Colt. The Patriot also has front cocking serrations. I prefer just the straight rear cocking serrations on the Colt, which as more of a purest, I find more attractive than front cheese graters.

My Patriot came with a test target of 5 rounds in one ragged hole. The gun was very accurate and very smooth, no doubt a great deal and just as good as the new Colts. My Patriot was a relatively earlier one and since then I think DW might have been having some quality control issues as they couldn't keep up with demand...they may have also switched barrels...you can research all that on the 1911 forum. I have to say that mine was a great gun though.

So, either way these two guns are comparable in quality and price so your choice mostly depends on what features and looks most appeal to you.

[duncan]

NIB Springfield Loaded
Used Kimber Classic or Custom

Have both and they are great guns.

[RandyC]

I had the same decision to make -- Colt or Dan Wesson?

Dan Wesson: an exceptional looking weapon, tight as it can be, extraordinarilly accurate, and a good price. But quite a few MIM internals.

Colt: Holds its value better. Nearly all forged steel internals. And Colt's quality is back up there. And, of course there's that pony on the slide.

I doubt you'll go wrong either way. I went for the Colt, something that can be passed down for generations. But I don't see either taking the place of my carry piece, a series 1 Kimber Pro Carry. I think you've done a pretty good job of narrowing down the field and you'll be happy with either choice.

[Dorrin79]

I've been very happy with my SA Mil-Spec

hard to beat for the price.

If price is not as much of a concern, there are certainly nicer 1911s, though.

[Daniel T]

I'd go with the prancing pony. I have in the past, and definitely will again in the future.

[litman252]

A link for ya:


Wesson or SA Loaded (http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54961&highlight=External+Extractor)

Tony

[Drjones]

Those are two totally different guns.

Do you really want all the bells and whistles that the loaded has? It is a nice gun. I've shot one once and loved it, however, I decided its not quite what I want.

The 1991A1 is a bare-bones mil-spec pistol and I've decided that is what I want.

I've done a lot of research and have learned that both companies produce fine guns. I decided on the Colt because I want the name. Samuel Colt was the first to invent the design, and I don't want a copy, I want the real thing. Just my take on it.

As far as overall quality; you are not going to find a single manufacturer of ANYTHING that puts out a perfect product 100% of the time. Of course you'll find people who have had bad experiences with both manufacturer.

On the whole, they both put out excellent firearms. Oh, I believe that Colts are still American made, whereas Springfield does a lot of their production in South America. Brazil, IIRC.

Being "patriotic" by purchasing a foreign-made copy of an American firearm doesn't make much sense to me. :p

Just remember that dissatisfied customers are often the most vocal. Very often you don't hear from the satisfied customers.

[middy]

Samuel Colt was the first to invent the design
Browning designed it! Infidel! ;)

[tex_n_cal]

another recommendation for a 1991A1:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=238375

[Black Majik]

dunno if you guys noticed but this post is 8 months old. :p



Oh yeah, for those interested in the 1911 design. There's only one:
The NRM Colt Governments :D

[threefeathers]

THe NRM Colts are the way to go. A Colt NEVER loses value.