Do you carry with a round chambered?


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XDGirl
August 1, 2008, 08:28 AM
Do you carry with a round chambered? I always carry with a round in the chamber.;)

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phydaux
August 1, 2008, 08:40 AM
Yep, sure do.

Mannlicher
August 1, 2008, 08:42 AM
well duh........... an empty gun is pretty much just another fashion statement.

30 cal slob
August 1, 2008, 08:43 AM
i'm gonna get flamed for this ... but most of the time ... no.

ND paranoia. I usually carry a Glock or S&W M&P in a soft holster like thunderwear.

But ... if I know I'm going into a situation that could be dicey (late at night in creepy part of town, going to bank with a lot of cash, two confirmed zombie kills in my driveway) then yes, but in a sturdy kydex OWB/IWB holster.

SHOOT1SAM
August 1, 2008, 08:50 AM
I do, because if you ask anyone I played softball with, they'd tell you that I can't throw for crap. I'd have to throw that empty pistol at the bad guy, and I'd more than likely hit a car full of orphans being driven by some nuns.

Sam

doc2rn
August 1, 2008, 08:51 AM
Certain firearms like the S&W 10-4 are carried on an empty chamber for a reason. Otherwise if it's in the holster it's ready to go.

possum
August 1, 2008, 08:52 AM
i always have a round in the chamber that is the way that i was taught, and that is the way that i have been carrying. IMHO if you aren't safe with and confident with carrying a gun with a round in the chamber then you shouldn't be carrying at all.

DirksterG30
August 1, 2008, 08:53 AM
I ALWAYS carry with a round chambered. If I need to use my gun, it is possible that I may only have 1 hand available (injury, moving loved one out of the way etc.) Also, I want every advantage I can get; I don't want to have to take the time to chamber a round in a fight.

SapperMapper
August 1, 2008, 08:55 AM
XD40 goes fully loaded whether it's IWB, in my backpack or in my glovebox. It's the subcompact, with the short mag that gives me 9 rounds, plus a full 12-round mag with grip extension

Rossi .38 snubbie has the hammer down on an empty chamber, but I have a full speed-loader in a pocket, so I still have 9 rounds to work with.

Geno
August 1, 2008, 09:00 AM
Always.

bharen
August 1, 2008, 09:03 AM
Yes. Always. Why carry any other way?

Ske1etor
August 1, 2008, 09:04 AM
Absolutely.

FCFC
August 1, 2008, 09:16 AM
If I could, I would carry with two rounds in the chamber!
:rolleyes:



I ALWAYS carry with a round chambered. If I need to use my gun, it is possible that I may only have 1 hand available (injury, moving loved one out of the way etc.) Also, I want every advantage I can get; I don't want to have to take the time to chamber a round in a fight
It's always a tradeoff. There are benefits to carrying one in the pipe. And there are detriments. Everyone has to decide how to assess and act on that tradeoff.

Here's a case posted earlier this week where the CCWer had plenty of time to draw, then rack the slide to do what he needed to do. It's a practical example of the more predictable situation in drawing a firearm: sufficient time to rack a slide on a semi-automatic.

Armed citizen foils dumb bank robber

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=380601

Heck, the Israelis have been using Condition 3 carry for many years. Those guys know what they're doing.

It's always a tradeoff, though. Ain't it grand that we can choose whichever method we feel comfortable with? Carry one in the chamber--it's OK. Don't carry one in the chamber--OK. You decide.

SJgunguy24
August 1, 2008, 09:16 AM
I carry a Glock,if I gotta get to work. I aint even wasting time with a safety.

rich0372
August 1, 2008, 09:19 AM
But ... if I know I'm going into a situation that could be dicey (late at night in creepy part of town, going to bank with a lot of cash, two confirmed zombie kills in my driveway) then yes, but in a sturdy kydex OWB/IWB holster.

I have a friend that does this also but what if you in the "good part of town" and something comes up some guy pulls a knife or worse on a loved on...you have no time to pull the gun out chamber it then shoot. I always have a round chambered, either my 1911 is cocked and locked or my sig 229 is chambered and ready to go.

Harley Man
August 1, 2008, 09:25 AM
In my mind that is the ONLY way to carry a weapon with one in the pipe. The only thing I have a problem with is my Springfield 1911 45 ACP in the Cocked and Locked position especially it it's pointing at my Man Hood !

ToeRag
August 1, 2008, 09:25 AM
See... if you carry a wheel gun you wouldn't have to ask that question.

gdvan01
August 1, 2008, 09:26 AM
well duh...............yep.

Harley Man
August 1, 2008, 09:29 AM
Wheel guns are nice, and I have a couple, but putting up a sheet of 16 rounds to me is better that a sheet of 5 or 6 and those wheel gun speed loaders take a little longer that a clip change.

JRG
August 1, 2008, 09:29 AM
Absolutely, if no round in the chamber the handgun is only partially loaded. My carry (CZ PCR) is also a decocker, so I don't have to remember the safety if I'm having an adrenalin rush. I've had that rush on several occasions in Vietnam and I remember what happens to you.....

.cheese.
August 1, 2008, 09:31 AM
yes.

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 09:31 AM
I for now carry condition 3, at least till I have more experince with handguns.

(Goes off and ducks)

Harley Man
August 1, 2008, 09:31 AM
That's why I love my Sig 225 because of the Decocker, I just feel safer with it in my pants.

Harley Man
August 1, 2008, 09:37 AM
Think about this...you are in a stop n go and your armed but don't have one in the pipe, and god forbid some bad business starts to go down, your in the back part of the store, buying milk of course...so you pull out your weapon and jack a round into the pipe...That is one sound all bad guys know...now you don't have the advantage. Keep one in the Pipe!

Nimble1
August 1, 2008, 09:43 AM
Always carry one in the chamber.If I ever have to pull it(and I hope not), I want it to be ready.

abrink
August 1, 2008, 09:52 AM
so you pull out your weapon and jack a round into the pipe...That is one sound all bad guys know

That could be used to your benefit though. Like when you hear those "in the middle of the night" stories and a guy racks his shotgun and the burglar goes running off. Of course i see what you're saying though. He then knows you're there and can take action against you. Like FCFC said it's a tradeoff.

ZeSpectre
August 1, 2008, 10:05 AM
Like when you hear those "in the middle of the night" stories and a guy racks his shotgun and the burglar goes running off.

Sounds and their effect. Folks love to talk about the sound of racking a shotgun but an old friend of mine discovered that yelling "everyone in this house is armed and waiting for you...it's your choice" really loudly was also very effective in causing a thief to flee his house.
(He later admitted to me that he had no idea what he was saying at the time, he just blurted it out under stress.)

I'm not counting on a sound. I keep a round chambered.

ar10
August 1, 2008, 10:17 AM
It doesn't make any sense not to. Why carry one if you don't :confused:

springmom
August 1, 2008, 10:17 AM
Of course.

Springmom

GRB
August 1, 2008, 10:26 AM
Do you carry with a round chambered?

I thought about the question a bit first, and I have to admit, no I do not, but I may or may not be answering the question the way you meant it; let me explain:

When I carry a handgun, for self defense, it is always loaded to capacity. This was not always the case with certain pistols I had, but certainly is the case now.

As for long guns: I have often 'carried' them without one in the chamber. When I go on a hunting trip, and am making my way out into the woods at 0400 in the pitch black, you can bet there is not a round in the chamber. Heck half of the time, in that situation, the gun is not loaded at all.

When I go out on an operation for my job, and take a long gun, the chamber is not loaded until at or near the location where it may be needed. I do not need a Remington 870 going off in my car and taking off my head (you guessed - no shotgun racks, so it is in the trunk), and it is empty. I do the same with my MP-5 as with the shotgun, it gets loaded at or near the loacation.

If I go to the range with a handgun, or long arm that I am 'carrying', it may or may not be loaded. If it is not my defensive sidearm at the moment, such as if it is in a range bag or box or gun rag, it goes along unloaded.

All the best,
Glenn B

Zedicus
August 1, 2008, 10:38 AM
Glock 22 & I carry with one in the Pipe always.

ochmude
August 1, 2008, 10:43 AM
Think about this...you are in a stop n go and your armed but don't have one in the pipe, and god forbid some bad business starts to go down, your in the back part of the store, buying milk of course...so you pull out your weapon and jack a round into the pipe...That is one sound all bad guys know...now you don't have the advantage. Keep one in the Pipe!

Think about this...you are in a stop n go and you're unarmed because everyone told you that if you are uncomfortable chambering a round you shouldn't carry at all, and god forbid some bad business starts to go down. You're in the back part of the store, buying milk of course, and all you can do is hide and hope they don't shoot you....because having a condition 3 weapon is completely useless and you had no business carrying anyway.

Listen, if you're uncomfortable carrying condition 1, then carry condition 3, or condition 4 even. We've all heard the saying "A .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home." Well, a condition 3 weapon in your pocket (or holster) is better than condition 1 weapon at home. After awhile you'll get more comfortable with the weapon and begin to trust that it won't just go off as long as it's properly holstered. Everyone has their own learning curve.

jcramin
August 1, 2008, 10:44 AM
Nope Ill just plan to ask the bad guy to wait a minute while I get my Barney Bullet outa my shirt pocket and chamber it

:what:

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 10:45 AM
if condition 3 is good enough for the Israeli Miltary, it is good enough for me right now.

mike7465
August 1, 2008, 10:45 AM
Sometime yes, other times no.
Yes, if I am going to carry in a bad part of town, in a bad situation, or in a situation where I think I will need to shoot.
No, if I don't think I need to.

cowssurf
August 1, 2008, 10:59 AM
"See... if you carry a wheel gun you wouldn't have to ask that question."

How is that different from a double action semi-auto? And yet the question is still asked and being answered. It makes a good point. If you carry a double action revolver, it is assumed you'll load it fully. But if you carry a double action semi-auto, it's assumed you have to decide whether or not to have one in the hole. Isn't the risk the same for each?

Glockman17366
August 1, 2008, 11:09 AM
I carry revolvers more then semi-auto's, so yes...there's one ready to go.
When I do carry a semi-auto (normally a Glock 19), I also rack the slide when I leave the house.
Although I do leave a couple revolvers loaded around the house, I never leave a round in the chamber in my semi-auto's.

jrfoxx
August 1, 2008, 11:11 AM
yes.I have complete faith in the safety mechanisims (thumb safety, grip safty, ect) of my 1911 and its retention holster, so there is no reason not to have it chambered and ready.If I were to need to use it in a SD manner, the 1/2 second it takes to chamber it could easily be a 1/2 second I dont have to spare.Also, since I will be full of adrenaline, and likely fear/near panic, the less I need to remember and/or do, the better.:D

Treo
August 1, 2008, 11:33 AM
Many, many moons ago when I first started cayying a semiauto, I carried condition 3 for "safety". Then one morning in a dark parking lot in a bad part of town I got jumped I pulled my weapon & in the stress of the moment completely forgot that the chamber was empty from that day forward I carry a round chambered at all times.

Israeli Carry
Has absolutely nothing to do W/ the Iraelis "knowing what they're doing". It actually is the specific result of most of them NOT knowing what they were doing when the IDF was formed. They had a lot of different semiautos W/ different manuals of arms, and mostly fire arms illiterate troops. It was decided for safety to standardize condition 3 carry.

sorry for the long post

JesseL
August 1, 2008, 11:46 AM
Certain firearms like the S&W 10-4 are carried on an empty chamber for a reason. Otherwise if it's in the holster it's ready to go.

:confused:
I wonder what that reason is? A S&W model 10 of any stripe should have a perfectly good hammer block and be safe for fully loaded carry. It's not like a SAA that leaves the hammer/firing pin resting on a live primer.

Claude Clay
August 1, 2008, 11:48 AM
all guns are always loaded. why would you want to break this rule?

OOOXOOO
August 1, 2008, 11:49 AM
Without a round in the chamber it is just an expensive rock.

Stump Water
August 1, 2008, 11:59 AM
"See... if you carry a wheel gun you wouldn't have to ask that question."

How is that different from a double action semi-auto? Isn't the risk the same for each?

Load the DA wheelgun with the hammer resting on an emty chamber.

Load the DA semi-auto with a full mag and an empty chamber.

Pick up each one and pull the trigger. It's different.

JohnnyGrey
August 1, 2008, 12:15 PM
I carry two 9mms two ways depending on how I'm dressed and the time of year.

Summer / deep concealment: XD9SC in a thunderwear, empty chamber, 16+0.

Winter / semi-concealed: CZ75 compact in a vertical shoulder rig, chambered, 14+1, hammer down safety off.

Reason is, the thunderwear is a soft holster and it's not impossible that the trigger could be pulled, especially when the gun shifts around so much from me standing, sitting, getting in/out of the car. Also, the holster violates the first rule of firearm safety, so if it went off, it would blow my left thigh open.

The CZ in the shoulder rig is a different story. The gun is never pointed at me, it's impossible for the trigger to be pulled while holstered and the the gun has that heavy first trigger pull. In a firefight, I'd rather have that first long pull than having to worry about clicking off a safety.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 1, 2008, 12:19 PM
I always carry round in chamber BUT I think those that say "if you don't carry round in chamber then you shouldn't carry" or "no round in chamber = only good for throwing" aren't being completely honest.

If I remember correctly for SD handgun use in 92% of the cases the weapon was NEVER FIRED. Of the remaining 8% how many would the shooter have enough time to chamber a round. 4%, 5%, 7.99999999999%

So a weapon w/ mag loaded but no round in chamber is likely effective in 92%-99%+ of SD uses.

Also I remember seeing some SD video where the instructor (Todd Jarret?) showing a draw and rack. The time from buzzer to 2 center mass shots was <1 sec. If someone carries "amber" (military term for mag but not chambered) then they should practice that way.

To say the weapon is useless, only good as a club, or should be left home is dumb and dangerous. What if someones wife left it at home and was attacked by a perp she was approaching (3-5 sec response) time. Then raped or beaten or killed while her SD weapon is home on nightstand.

Round in chamber is BETTER (IMHO) but Weapon and skills to quick rack isn't useless.

GEM
August 1, 2008, 12:21 PM
Well, no one has ever asked this before! :rolleyes:

All there is to this debate is a decision among risks:

1. With a chambered round, I will shoot myself or another accidentally. Maybe a bad guy will grab my gun and shoot me. An unchambered gun gives me time to use my kung-fu. Maybe, I am untrained and scared of the chambered gun.


2. With an unchambered gun, I will be slow getting into the fight and be behind the curve. I might mess up the rack. I might not be able to use both hands due to something or other and one handed racking is slow.
That's it - decide what works for you. BTW, the only difference between a chambered semi and an all cylinder loaded revolver is trigger pull. You can get a heavy pull semi (YUK!).

Lady with a Gun
August 1, 2008, 12:21 PM
When someone asked me if my gun was loaded, I said, "If it isn't loaded, it's useless."

pappy
August 1, 2008, 12:24 PM
Yep, always.

JohnnyGrey
August 1, 2008, 12:35 PM
empty chamber != empty gun

bnkrazy
August 1, 2008, 12:35 PM
99% of the time I carry a Walther P99QA with a round in the chamber decocked. The P99QA has a feature where you can decock it and the trigger is disconnected so it has no effect.

The nice thing about the P99QA is to cock it, you only need to pull back on the slide about 1/2 an inch or a little less. The holster I use is tight enough that it allows me to press down right before I draw (same movement) and that action cocks the gun and it's ready to go.

It also can get around the one handed racking problem as you can press the muzzle against a solid object to cock it as well. I find it a very nice compromise.

davidjblythe
August 1, 2008, 12:58 PM
When I turned 21 I applied and got my carry permit. I carried Condition 3 for about a month while I got used to daily carry. Once I felt comfortable with my pistol with me while I did daily tasks, I upgraded to condition 1.

ochmude
August 1, 2008, 01:02 PM
^ Exactly my story as well. I really can't stand when people say that a condition 3 weapon is an expensive rock, useless, etc. That's beyond illogical. A condition 3 weapon isn't the best...but it IS better than nothing.

MinnMooney
August 1, 2008, 01:06 PM
I can't throw for crap. I'd have to throw that empty pistol at the bad guy, and I'd more than likely hit a car full of orphans being driven by some nuns. Hilarious!!

Like many have already said, an empty chamber is a death warrent in a stressful situation. If the situation developes fast enough, some folks even forget to take off the safety or aim! Racking the slide is one step too many.

Frank Ettin
August 1, 2008, 01:20 PM
When I can carry, I always have a round chambered. I'm just not going to count on having two hands available if I need my gun.

DirksterG30
August 1, 2008, 01:51 PM
It's always a tradeoff. There are benefits to carrying one in the pipe. And there are detriments. Everyone has to decide how to assess and act on that tradeoff.

Here's a case posted earlier this week where the CCWer had plenty of time to draw, then rack the slide to do what he needed to do. It's a practical example of the more predictable situation in drawing a firearm: sufficient time to rack a slide on a semi-automatic.

Armed citizen foils dumb bank robber

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=380601

So carrying with a round chambered in the above situation would have been a detriment how? You mentioned "the more predictable situation in drawing a firearm" - I don't think there is such a thing.

I'm sure there could be situations where I see trouble coming, and have time to chamber a round. There could also be situations where I am behind the curve, reacting instead of acting, and not able to rack the slide. Personally, I'd rather plan for the later situation than the former.

Heck, the Israelis have been using Condition 3 carry for many years. Those guys know what they're doing.


As others have stated, this was because the Israelis being issued numerous pistols with differing manuals-of-arms, and it was easier and safer to train the soldiers to rack the slide. This is a poor model to base carrying a concealed handgun on. Why add a separate step to a stressful situation?

fspitzdorf
August 1, 2008, 01:56 PM
J Frame always have 5 in the cylinder and the M&P has 9 in the magazine and one in the pipe... God forbid I should ever even have to draw my weapon but if I do I don't want to have to worry about "loading" it first...

Flopsy
August 1, 2008, 03:15 PM
When I carried my Glock, 99% of the time NO, I had the chamber empty. I was not comfortable enough with it having no safety and a 5.5lb trigger.

I recognized that unchambered was not the ideal way to carry. I tried to train with the Glock and others, drawing and racking quickly as if in an emergency, got WAY too many FTFs and "short strokes" that way. So I now carry pistols chambered that have a decocking safety which I'm more comfortable with.

onebigelf
August 1, 2008, 03:17 PM
Heck yes. I carry a HP now, and started with 1911's. I'm really only comfortable 'cocked and locked', but will at times carry hammer down.

John

Rich K
August 1, 2008, 03:17 PM
My carry piece is a 1911. I carry cocked and locked always.

It'd be useless any other way, to my thinking.

Erik
August 1, 2008, 03:18 PM
"Do you carry with a round chambered?"

Another yes.

---

"Israeli Carry - Has absolutely nothing to do W/ the Iraelis "knowing what they're doing". It actually is the specific result of most of them NOT knowing what they were doing when the IDF was formed. They had a lot of different semiautos W/ different manuals of arms, and mostly fire arms illiterate troops. It was decided for safety to standardize condition 3 carry."

Agreed. And someone come along pointing out that they still do it. Which is because, as with most militarys of the world to include ours, pistol training and the abilty to efficiently use them takes a very distant second place to their primary weapon training and the abilty to efficiently use them. And the civilian doctrine follows along with the expectation that any moment the distinction between civilian and soldier will be impossible to distinguish, therefor stipulate the military standard.

DWARREN123
August 1, 2008, 03:19 PM
I carry Glocks, G23 or G27. It is loaded with one in the chamber. I practice and train with it. Always loaded!

ochmude
August 1, 2008, 03:30 PM
I just realized I spent so much time putting in my $.02 that I never actually answered the original question. I carry an Colt 1991 Commander, cocked and locked, wherever I legally can.

sojournerhome
August 1, 2008, 03:32 PM
In my Kahr yes I do carry a chambered round.

camslam
August 1, 2008, 03:33 PM
Does a bear crap in the woods?

Of course it is chambered, but it took a month or so before I was comfortable doing so. Haven't looked back. :)

FCFC
August 1, 2008, 03:40 PM
Quote:
It's always a tradeoff. There are benefits to carrying one in the pipe. And there are detriments. Everyone has to decide how to assess and act on that tradeoff.

Here's a case posted earlier this week where the CCWer had plenty of time to draw, then rack the slide to do what he needed to do. It's a practical example of the more predictable situation in drawing a firearm: sufficient time to rack a slide on a semi-automatic.

Armed citizen foils dumb bank robber

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=380601

So carrying with a round chambered in the above situation would have been a detriment how?
Am not following you here. I did not say that there was a detriment specific to the cited case.

In general, which is what I said, there are obviously benefits and detriments to carrying with one in the pipe. It's always a tradeoff, was my point there.

basicblur
August 1, 2008, 03:44 PM
I really can't stand when people say that a condition 3 weapon is an expensive rock, useless, etc.

Ya gotta understand, the folks that say that (and deal in superlatives) are the only ones in this room professionel enough to DOH! :what:

Besides...when the zombies attack you MUST be a highly tuned, poised on the edge attack machine without a split second to lose!
What? You've never had to draw your weapon?
Nevermind...

Hmmm....let me try that game...
If you don't have a high enough panic threshold to remember to rack your slide, YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING!

WOW...gotta admit...that did make me feel all warm, tingly, and superior inside! :D

Cyclimus
August 1, 2008, 03:46 PM
Always.

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 03:54 PM
It is all good, if I keep losing weight, I will be carrying a revolver and not a BHP.

Savage Shooter
August 1, 2008, 03:58 PM
I always carried my bearcat loaded while hunting until I got rugers new catalog and read that I was carrying a virtual bomb:eek: my dad never told me about the no round under the hammer rule. :scrutiny: That magazine probably saved my foot some where down the line.

Treo
August 1, 2008, 04:18 PM
t a split second to lose!
What? You've never had to draw your weapon?
Nevermind...

Hmmm....let me try that game...
If you don't have a high enough panic threshold to remember to rack your slide, YOU SHOULDN'T BE CARRYING!

I admit I panicked when I had to draw but I don't think it would have mattered the guy was less than 6 feet from me when he came out from between the cars. had he not seen me drawing and bailed he'd have got to me before I got the gun chambered.

I'm kinda curious while you're dogging me for panicking have you ever been there? How'd you react?

FCFC
August 1, 2008, 04:22 PM
I really can't stand when people say that a condition 3 weapon is an expensive rock, useless, etc. That's beyond illogical.
Lately, they're saying it is "not loaded" or only "partially loaded," too.

I suppose they think that's a better argument...

OrangeJoe
August 1, 2008, 04:59 PM
"See... if you carry a wheel gun you wouldn't have to ask that question."


Stump Water:
How is that different from a double action semi-auto? Isn't the risk the same for each?
Load the DA wheelgun with the hammer resting on an emty chamber.

Load the DA semi-auto with a full mag and an empty chamber.

Pick up each one and pull the trigger. It's different.

I would think the first quote refers to a common revolver (DA) with an empty chamber next to the one below the hammer. As seen in the movie La Femme Nikita, ie. click, bang, bang, bang, bang, click.

As I've heard it described...First trigger pull is free, since the hammer falls on an empty chamber, no ND.

In a SD situation a second trigger pull could be achieved almost instantly. There lies the difference for some wheelgunners (or so I hear).

MT GUNNY
August 1, 2008, 05:38 PM
Cocked, Locked, and ready to Rock!

shadowalker
August 1, 2008, 05:43 PM
Yes always, there is not time to chamber a round in a lot of self defense situations, even if you practice one handed or do the pant leg trick. Action beats reaction and responding to a deadly threat already puts us in the reacting phase, the less we have to do to respond the better.


The sound of a gun chambering is not a good deterrent. The BG may run away or he may shoot you while you analyze the effect of the sound :).
Situations also happen with very little warning even at home or in "good" parts of town.

strat81
August 1, 2008, 05:45 PM
Yes.

3 gun
August 1, 2008, 05:47 PM
If you are not ready to carry a LOADED gun do not bother carrying one. If your gun is not safe loaded, carry a different one. If you do not know what is safe do not carry one.

guntotinguy
August 1, 2008, 05:48 PM
Do you carry with a round chambered? I always carry with a round in the chamber.

Absolutely I do now,as once upon a time I didnt and after a little incident that corrected that way of thinking,I have ever since then.

theken206
August 1, 2008, 05:49 PM
indeed

ar10
August 1, 2008, 07:08 PM
If you are not ready to carry a LOADED gun do not bother carrying one. If your gun is not safe loaded, carry a different one. If you do not know what is safe do not carry one.

It's unfortunate that a number of people who carry guns and have their CHL don't keep a round in the chamber. It just seems to me that when you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you have an empty chamber, that BG can easily take the weapon from you then use it on you.
Granted the majority of confrontations seem to end up with the BG/BGs running the minute they see a gun pointed at them. I just don't want to be in that position if they don't.
I also think the primary purpose of going through all that CC crap is to protect yourself and your family.

enfield303
August 1, 2008, 07:20 PM
Condition 1. ALWAYS.

Travis McGee
August 1, 2008, 07:21 PM
Heck yeah.

jughead2
August 1, 2008, 07:32 PM
cocked and locked,regardless of what 3 officers think and gave me a hard time. P12-45

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 07:57 PM
I know I am one of the few who think condition 3 is acceptable, and i fully expect that condition 1s will insist tat condition three is completely useless.

Also mind you I am a user of the BHP.

However, It is well known that condition two GASP requires a extra action.

However, it has a number of very important advantages that folks never talk about.


The Majority of LEO are killed by there own gun. And while we think that it will not happen to us, as more citizens carry there are going to be increasing cases of the bad guy grabbing a gun from someone and killing them with there own gun. I know folks will say "That will not happen to me" but it happens all the time to LEO, so lets NOT pretend that this will not be a issue. The advantage is that if you have it in condition three if you are disarmed that the BG has to rack the slide, which he will NOT train for, which gives you time to protect yourself.

Secondly, if you think you are going to be disarmed, you can quickly drop the magazine and at least in the BHP the gun is useless without the magazine.

Secondly, if someone trains for condition three they can draw, rack, and aim far quicker then most people can draw in the first place.

Thirdly, in a self defense situation, adrenaline is pumping though your body, and the fact that you pump the slide five you body the focus it needs to pump three well AIMED shots, and not pull and spray the place.

Many times people STORE guns in condition three, and it is very important to train the same way. It ruins the training if you walk around condition 1 all day, then store in condition three and then expect to be able to use it when you wake up in the bump in the night. Condition 1 storage is very questionable in my mind if you have any type of children in the house. NOt that condition 3 is safe, but it is much less likely for a child to shoot a condition 3 gun then condition 1.

And most important, a holstered gun in condition 1 just needs one failure and you have a AD, most likely putting a bullet in your formodial artery and your gone.

I know that folks find condition 3 as "Stupid" but if you really think you need to have quick pull, then go to condition 0, after all, a good holster will make sure the trigger won't go off. ;)

Valkman
August 1, 2008, 08:05 PM
C&L whether it's a 1911 or an XD. I don't "guess" whether it's going to be safe today and where I live doesn't have much crime. Doesn't matter - C&L all the way.

Frank Ettin
August 1, 2008, 08:23 PM
Drgong, everything you say is true BUT nothing you have said overcomes, IMHO, the overriding and enormous disadvantage of condition 3.

From condition 3, you must use two hands to quickly make your gun ready, and THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to believe that in an emergency you will have the use of both hands. Unless you can rack the slide quickly, you're holding a useless hunk of metal (and in some cases, metal and plastic). There is just no way you can count on being able to rack the slide in an emergency.

So to me, condition 3 has no worthwhile advantages.

(Yes I know that there are ways of racking the slide with one hand. But they are neither quick nor sure and are best practiced and reserved for exigent situations. And I also know that there are some folks who will claim to be able to rack the slide quickly with one hand -- and to those worthies, I can only say "congratulations.")

burningsquirrels
August 1, 2008, 08:32 PM
if i CARRY there is always one in the chamber.

think of it like this: your gun in one hand, your wife, child, or other valuables in the other.

stormyone
August 1, 2008, 08:45 PM
Of course. Always have one in the chamber. You never know who is sitting next to you on a bus in the nice part of town.

shadowalker
August 1, 2008, 08:49 PM
I don't think condition 3 people are stupid at all and most condition 1 carriers I know started out in condition 3 and moved to 1 as they became more comfortable, I did.

Some counter points

Less actions are always faster, while it is possible to be fast at drawing racking and firing the same person will be able to draw and fire faster.

Bad guys are better trained than most people think, in a lot of cases they are now getting more range time than police officers. They have grown up watching guns on TV and video games, it will take very little to no time for them to rack the slide.

Kids know how to take a handgun from condition 3 to condition 1 and I don't see any increase in safety, the safety comes from training them how to be safe with firearms and keeping them from having access to them until they are, once they have access all bets are off.

In life and death scenarios the body enters survival mode and if you don't heavily train it is entirely likely a person will forget to rack the slide, it happens and people have been shot because of it.

The half second it takes to rack the slide probably wont have much of an impact on the adrenaline dump as far as accuracy, in fact you now have LESS time to aim and get hits on the BG because of having to rack the slide. Spray and pray is a training issue and probably increases as time to respond decreases.

Gunvault handgun safes make it easy to more safely store condition 1 handguns, I store my carry firearm that way when it isn't on my hip because it is also my bedside gun. A holster that covers the trigger and proper gun handling greatly reduces the chances of an AD.

I do not carry my Sig in condition 0 because it offers no benefit to me but I would not feel more prone to have an AD if I did.

basicblur
August 1, 2008, 08:54 PM
I'm kinda curious while you're dogging me for panicking have you ever been there?

Wasn't aware I was "dogging" you-if I was "dogging" anyone (was I? :D) it's folks who tend to deal in superlatives, which I don't think you did.
You know...the ones that don't realize everything's a tradeoff and tend to make definitive statements like:
Guns don’t need no stinking (magazine) safety
It’s the best-HANDS DOWN!
Brand X is the best-PERIOD!
Conditon 1 is the ONLY way to carry!

Well, you get the picture? When you run across someone like that, it’s best to just move along as there’s going to be nothing to see there.

I once stated one reason I like the USPC in Variant 1 is I feel it’s the safest way for a civilian to carry if you’re going to keep one in the pipe (de-cocked, safety on), and I feel one of the first things a newbie should consider before trying to figure out what gun he wants is in what condition does he/she want to carry-then maybe decide on the weapon. ‘Course, I realize one’s preferences may change over time.
As expected, I got flamed by the superlative crowd telling me why X was the best/only/safest etc way to carry.

If I were to take the attitude of some, I might say “if you don’t have enough situational awareness to not allow yourself to get into a position where you don’t have enough time to chamber a round, you shouldn’t be carrying!” (Sounds rather arrogant, no?)

I think to each his own…and knock off the attitudes!
Yeah…I know that’s gonna happen! :rolleyes:

Piney Woods
August 1, 2008, 11:32 PM
Yes, always.

10-Ring
August 1, 2008, 11:58 PM
Of course -- it would be like taking an empty gun to a knife fight :scrutiny:

PaulBk
August 2, 2008, 12:08 AM
Only on days ending with "y". :D

-Paul

Quick Karl
August 2, 2008, 12:24 AM
HK USP Compact - cocked & locked - at all times.

romma
August 2, 2008, 12:34 AM
Abso-positive-lutely... Iworry about having enough time as it is just to draw if I need to without catching a bullet in the head in the meantime. I figure if Iam going to carry with the chance I might need it, then might as well be as ready as possible.

gidaeon
August 2, 2008, 01:21 AM
Yes (...though I too was hesitant at first). My DAO without decocker makes me a little more cautious than those with ext. safety, but they're all built and designed to be carried that way. If I can't trust a holstered, chambered weapon then it shouldn't be used.

Its a recipe for disaster trying to maintain a mindset of "loaded" versus "unloaded" & chambered versus un-chambered. All guns are loaded and chambered period. So if I'm treating it that way, it might as well really be chambered & ready. I sometimes have a hard enough time remembering what exactly I was still supposed to get at the store, keeping track of what status I'm at is an unwelcome factor. That said I understand as a relative newbie myself that someone just getting used to the whole matter may take a temporary progressive step in getting comfortable.

Disaster
August 2, 2008, 03:40 AM
My bedside gun is at condition 1 just like my carry.

Police officers have a very different situation than civilians who conceal carry. They advertise that they have guns. We don't.

If I draw my concealed carry it is because I need to use it and it WILL be chambered.

Are you saying a BG will grab your concealed carry weapon from concealment...or that you will draw your weapon but not rack it? Are you saying that he will know how to spot and steal your concealed weapon but not how to rack the slide?

I don't see any advantage for carrying condition 3...none.

Kayback
August 2, 2008, 06:01 AM
I want my gun to go BANG with the minimum of messing around. With my Glock all I have to do is pull the trigger. With my 1911 I have to grip it properly (Thumb on saftey, grip saftey depressed) and pull my trigger.

If your weapon is in a decent holster, I see no drawbacks at all to carrying a loaded weapon. If you exercise caution in holstering it, it isn't a danger.

KBK

michiganfan
August 2, 2008, 08:43 AM
Is there another way?

RickW
August 2, 2008, 09:23 AM
Yes I do.

Pilot
August 2, 2008, 09:26 AM
Yes. Always.

357wheelgunner
August 2, 2008, 12:39 PM
Wheel guns are nice, and I have a couple, but putting up a sheet of 16 rounds to me is better that a sheet of 5 or 6 and those wheel gun speed loaders take a little longer that a clip change.

Where is your "sheet of 16 rounds" going to go? I'd be worried about hitting bystanders spraying bullets like that.

That's why I love my Sig 225 because of the Decocker, I just feel safer with it in my pants.

Even Jeff Cooper, a well known 1911 fan, had respect for Sig's perfect decocking system. When I had a S&W 5906 back in the day, I got nervous everytime I hit the decocker and the hammer flew towards the firing pin block at full speed. The Sig is nice and slow, like it should be. Sig's light, smooth double action pull is a lot better than a thumb flick safety, in my opinion.

aji
August 2, 2008, 09:12 PM
Yes,always

UnTainted
August 2, 2008, 09:54 PM
I feel totally safe carrying my sig's chambered. I love sigs for this comfort, for the smooth DA pull, and the sweet SA pulls thereafter.

I feel fine with a kahr or a hi-power as well chambered. I usually leave a gun chambered if it's in a holster. If it's not in a holster, it's in condition 3 (such as in the safe). Bedside gun is condition 1.

CHEVELLE427
August 3, 2008, 12:54 AM
Any Other Way Is Just
an Empty Gun

Master of Arms
August 3, 2008, 03:53 PM
Absolutely, Positively, without a doubt, YES!

buenhec
August 3, 2008, 04:20 PM
It should be illegal to carry without one in the chamber, that will just get you shot, unless you are Israeli trained..

jimmyraythomason
August 3, 2008, 04:39 PM
Always!

noeyedeer
August 3, 2008, 09:12 PM
Carry the way you practice. I holster frequently at the range, and I decock/safety before I holster. I don't want the T shirt snagging the trigger and shooting myself in the butt.

The draw disengages the safety when the holster is cleared.

cowssurf
August 4, 2008, 01:18 AM
Stump Water said:

"Load the DA wheelgun with the hammer resting on an emty chamber.

Load the DA semi-auto with a full mag and an empty chamber.

Pick up each one and pull the trigger. It's different."

Stump, that's not what I mean at all. I meant, with a DA semi-auto loaded and one in the chamber, how is that different safety-wise, than a 6 round revolver fully loaded? I guess I should add that I didn't envision a safety on either gun. So I still would ask what I asked. I do understand that a semi-auto with an empty chamber is very different from a DA revolver fully loaded.

TylerDurden
August 4, 2008, 01:58 AM
They bad guy does and so should I.

TheGrim86
August 4, 2008, 02:20 AM
If its just jammed in my cargo pocket, no. If I put on my holster (which is the norm), then yes. Only safety on is the "dont touch the trigger" safety.

Dukester
August 4, 2008, 02:22 AM
Yep, 8+1 Sig p220:)

jocko
August 4, 2008, 08:29 AM
not one in the pipe tells me , your scared of carrying:confused:

wetidlerjr
August 4, 2008, 08:54 AM
Do you carry with a round chambered?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you carry with a round chambered? I always carry with a round in the chamber.
__________________
To bring Gun owners all across America together for Debates and Discussions
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Why, yes. Yes, I do. :D

dmazur
August 4, 2008, 09:44 AM
I used to carry Condition 3, but I'm changing over to Condition 1.

Here's how:

Around the house, doors locked, Condition 3 (either at arm's length or in a quick access safe)

Carried, Condition 1.

I've tried to tie this in to the color codes. I'll admit to being Condition White inside my own house, and Condition Yellow when I go anywhere else. To me, anyway, the shift in 1911 conditions seems to be appropriate.

Others may live in more dangerous areas and use Yellow/Condition 1 at all times. If I lived in some of these spots, I would too.

And, if you're into IDPA, you get lots of practice clearing your pistol with this method. As part of the routine, I show clear to the nonexistant SO. :)

CHEVELLE427
August 4, 2008, 09:55 AM
LIKE THE COP ASKED.

Sir is that loaded?
YES IT IS.
isn't YOURS

1911 guy
August 4, 2008, 10:02 AM
Yup.

Paragon
August 4, 2008, 10:39 AM
Of course. Don't want to take the chance of not having the time, or free arm to rack the slide.

Gottahaveone
August 4, 2008, 02:43 PM
Always. I fear some BG dragging me into an alley by one arm and I'm trying to rack the slide with my teeth. I realize that there are one-handed methods, such as hooking a rear sight on your belt to chamber it, but I just don't see that as a viable option. And I've always told my GF, who's not an anti but also isn't a certified gun nut, that should anything ever happen to me all she has to do is remove it from my pants, point it, and pull the bang switch. My opinion has always been that a unloaded chamber is an unloaded pistol. And an unloaded pistol is just a really, really short club.......

IndridCold
August 4, 2008, 02:56 PM
Is a bear catholic? Yes I carry +1. I'd carry +2 if it were at all possible.

dasmi
August 4, 2008, 03:06 PM
Glock 19. That gun is always chambered.

klane
August 4, 2008, 04:23 PM
Absolutley.

Johnny Guest
August 4, 2008, 10:38 PM
It’s hard to believe there’s another thread on handgun carry condition SO SOON.

A little over a week ago, I posted the following: I've been kind of watching this thread, and the result is interesting. With all the participants, who keep saying the same thing over and OVER and OVER, almost everyone has been remarkably polite to each another. I'd congratulate everyone, except that’s the way things are MEANT to be. 

That being said, I notice that some members are becoming a bit irritable. Looks to me as if six pages is enough for a WIDE cross section of opinions. We'll close this one up and let someone else start up something similar in a month or two.

Click HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375091) to read the entire, all too similar thread.

Some of it may not pertain to THIS thread, but you can see what I mean.

Friends, try using the search function. You may not get what you want on the first try. Try your Search words or phrases in Handguns: General Discussion, and Handguns: Autoloaders, and . . . : Revolvers. Use the words “chambered” and "Condition 1" and such. You may be surprised what you’ll find.

Anyway, 122 entries are more than sufficient.


--------------CLOSED---------------

Johnny

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