[Lightsped]

Just watching Titanic again, and I noticed that a chrome 1911 makes a appearence in Titanic. I guess this would mean this particular 1911 would have been one of the first models/versions? I just found it interesting to see a 1911 in a movie that takes place in 1912. That 1911 would have been a state of the art design in those days.

Didn't know if anyone else noticed the 1911.

[WonderNine]

Chrome 1911 in 1912? Wouldn't that be nickel? Anyways I never knew there was a .455 Webley version. I'll bet they're an expensive collector piece now. Wasn't the .455 a rimmed revolver cartrige? If that's the case then the .455 1911 was the first Coonan. :D

[doctorhumbert]

I wonder what happened to that poor 1911 after 92 years in cold deep Atlantic ocean, I heard that hard chrome is somewhat corrosion resistant. I would much love to have that gun salvaged out from that safe rather than Leo's stupid nude drawing.

[Sean Smith]

The finish would have been nickel, not hard chrome.

[Shaughn Leayme]

The 455 Webley Automatic cartridge Service MKI was a rimless design, not to be confused with the .455 Webley MKII or MK VI round that was a revolver cartridge.

It featured a FMJ bullet of about 220 grains with a velocity of 700 fps, the British had an awkward auto pistol that was issued to the flying corps, but they were unable to field as many as needed and 1911's were acquired, it is also rumored that the RCMP had some issued to them as well.

I will make a point to watch the movie closer next time.

[Mike Irwin]

Flyer,

The first Colts chambered for the .455 Webley Automatic cartridge weren't made, as far as I know, until 1915-16 in response to a procurement request from the British, about the same time that S&W started getting their first orders for revolvers from Britain.

1910 sounds to be WAY too early for any to have been sent to Britain, though, as the British Navy didn't adopt the .455 Auto until mid-to-late 1912, and the Royal Flying Corps until some time later during the war.

Yeah, my Blue Book says that about 11,000 1911 Models were sent to Britain between 1915 and 1916.


The Colt 1909 was an early version with a much straighter grip. They are being sold for extremely high prices.


Shaughn,

Ever fire a Webley Mk. I?

REALLY bizarre handgun!

[C.R.Sam]

Artistic license.

It's a movie.

Sam

[BluesBear]

Cartridges of the world states;

"The .455 Webley semi-rimmed pistol cartridge was adopted by the British Navy in 1912 fir use in the .455 Webley self-loading pistol. The pistol was not entirely satisfactory and was replaced by the end of World War I."

The .455 cartridge shouldn't fit in a .45acp chamber, but if the extractor catches it a .45acp will fire in a .455 auto chamber. But the .45 acp was loaded to slightly higher pressures. In fact the .455 Webley Auto has enough rim that it will fit and fire in some .455 revolvers and alsmost all .45 Colt chambers

The .45 automatic that was submitted by Colt for the Army trials in November 1910 were deemed unsatisfactory due tofatigue cracks in the frame and barrel. John Browning went back to the drawing board and worked on improvements. 15 were produced under the supervision of John Moses himself. During the inhouse tests Browning himself deemed 1 out of the first 6 as the most reliable. That is the gun that was tested by the Army in March 1911 and on the 28th of March, 1911 it was formally adopted.

So based on these facts there is no way that a Colt .455 Webley Automatic identical to the 1911 could have been available in 1909.

[Bren]

Good facts there Bluebear. ;)

[Old Fuff]

Sam (as usual) is right. It is very seldom that movies or TV shows are historically correct - especially when it comes to guns, and "Titanic" is an excellent illustration of this.

Colt was making .45 pistols as early as 1904, but they were based on a 1900/1902 design, not what would be the future 1911 Government Model.

Production of commercial 1911 pistols started in March 1912. The early pistols were blued, not nickeled - after all, this was supposed to be a military sidearm.

The Titanic left Southampton, England on April 12, 1912 bound for New York. She went down on April 14-15, 1912 after hitting an iceberg.

It is highly improbable, if not impossible, that a passenger could have obtained a 1911 pistol, especially a custom-finished one, in Hartford, CT. and brought it to England in time to book passage on the Titanic going back to New York in the time frame we are looking at. There is nothing in the known history of the Titanic incident to suggest that anything like this happened.

The movie's director could have easily made the story more plausible by arming the character with a handgun produced prior to 1912, but he obviously didn't know any better, or didn't care - most likely the latter.

In Hollywood they never let facts get in the way of a good story ....

[Johnny Guest]

- - -But at least marginally possible. Actually, the Colt 1910 was nearly identical to the 1911 except for the thumb safety, IIRC. IF a wealthy knave had tried and liked the older Colt automatic pistols, and had read of the introduction of the newest 1911, he COULD have obtained one, possibly right in Hartford. A sufficient infusion of gold coin will do wonders for early procurement . . . .

Really, I feel this situation is more likely than that in one of my favorite movies, "Raiders of the Lost Ark." It was set in 1936 and was replete with P38 pistols, MP38 or MP40 SMGs, and a panzerfaust/RPG.

Best,
Johnny

[Old Fuff]

Sorry Johnny.

But only 8 model 1910 pistols were made, and all of these were submitted to the Army for various testing or kept by Colt or John Browning.

Colt was out to get a BIG government contract.

Mr. "Big-Bucks" wouldn't have mattered. They would have fixed him up with a custom nickel-plated model 1905, maybe even a 1909. Might have engraved it too.

The whole subject wouldn't have come up if a movie producer or director had been smart enough to pick a gun that was on the market at the time.

A model 1911 being on the Titanic is entirely fictional - like the rest of the movie.

[Mike Irwin]

"A model 1911 being on the Titanic is entirely fictional - like the rest of the movie."

Oh no. No no...

There was a boat.

And it did sink.

They did manage to get that right.

[Old Fuff]

Mike:

How da ya know da boat sunk?

Maybe they just said that in the movie .....

Some people actually think we sent men up to the moon .....

I know because they made a movie 'bout it.

(If you believe this I have an old Colt revolver I want ta sell youse.)

[Joe Demko]

It would have been more appropriate to arm the sadistic lackey with a Luger, the acknowledged favorite weapon of pre-WWII badguys.

[Dr.Rob]

You know in the remake of the Shadow they armed him with 1905 Colts instead of 1911's that seemed a tad "odd" to me.

There was also some oddball movie "Gunmen" I think with Patrick Stewart and Dennis Leary set in modern times but all of the guns were antiques, thinking Mario Van Peebles carried a Lahti. wonder why the director or armorer did that.

Oh yeah and on the recontruceted ship, the deck chairs only had 14 slats, the real ones had 16.. somebody should be fired!

:scrutiny:

Now go outside take a deep breath and say.... it was only a movie.