Springfield Armory XD "Made in Croatia"?


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TexasRifleman
August 1, 2008, 04:49 PM
Why? Is this a SA design and they are simply taking advantage of cheaper labor or is the XD something that's already made elsewhere and SA is just re-branding the thing and selling it as their own here in the US?

Just curious. Thanks.

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possum
August 1, 2008, 04:52 PM
no the xd is imported and marketed by sa. the design was originally called the HS2000 and it is made in croatia. The name was changed when sa took in the project.

shadowalker
August 1, 2008, 04:52 PM
too late, http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Springfield-XD has a few more details.

Prince Yamato
August 1, 2008, 04:54 PM
It's an HS2000 pistol rebadged, "Springfield XD". For the American market. It's like paying for a Glock marked, "American Gun Company, INC." instead of Glock. What you have there is a $400 pistol, that you pay $100 more for so that it has an American distributor's name on it.

Clever marketing leads some to believe they are buying an "American Glock alternative".

TexasRifleman
August 1, 2008, 04:54 PM
Thanks

So when SA claims to have made all these improvements for the XD-M it's really this other company or is there a tighter relationship than just importing?

I'm interested in the XD-M but I was just curious exactly what I might be buying. When I see SA's marketing with Rob Leatham discussing all the changes "they" made to the XD I just wonder if that's all true given that it's imported from Croatia.

possum
August 1, 2008, 04:58 PM
there is much more going on then an importer, originally that is basically what they did they imported the hs series, and stamped thier roll marks and stuff on it, but when it comes to the xd m they did do the upgrades to the xdm and they sent the specs and stuff to croatia and have them make it there. just like the rest of the xd line.

just like sa 1911's alot of them are made in brazil.

by the way i don't care where they are made. i own 3 sa handguns and i will buy more in the future, 2 xd's and 1 1911 they are good to go in my book. accurate, reliable, and all fun to own and shoot.

TexasRifleman
August 1, 2008, 05:01 PM
by the way i don't care where they are made.

I don't care either, I just ask because the marketing machine from SA is working pretty heavy on the XDM and it sometimes gets difficult to separate fact from marketing in those cases.

Thanks for the info.

possum
August 1, 2008, 05:04 PM
I don't care either,
i know i just wanted to get that out there before some naysayer, or one of those "i buy only american, because i'm and american man, an american!" kinda folks shows up and tries to chime in.

highorder
August 1, 2008, 05:24 PM
"i buy only american, because i'm and american man, an american!"

Which is more American, the Chevy pick-up made in Ontario, or the BMW made in Spartanburg South carolina?

tinygnat219
August 1, 2008, 05:45 PM
What I find nifty is the fact that a big old "MADE IN CROATIA" label is on the slide.

Doesn't bother me. Americans aren't the only ones with clever ideas.

lee n. field
August 1, 2008, 07:54 PM
Why? Is this a SA design and they are simply taking advantage of cheaper labor or is the XD something that's already made elsewhere and SA is just re-branding the thing and selling it as their own here in the US?

No, it is a Croatian design that SA is importing and reselling here under their own name. They've done this with other guns in the past.

So when SA claims to have made all these improvements for the XD-M it's really this other company or is there a tighter relationship than just importing?

I'm guessing it's a bit of both.

I wonder what percentage of the Croatian production goes to the gun enthusiasts of the United State, vs. the rest of the world.

Navy joe
August 1, 2008, 08:16 PM
Hs2000 was the pistol to have when it hit the shores at $269. Now, just another plastic pistol.

MartinBrody
August 1, 2008, 08:20 PM
I have no problem with it being made in another country, but I don't think Taurus would get away with charging Beretta prices.

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 08:48 PM
From what I understand, it was a Pistol that was developed in the dark days of the yugo war and Springfield armory has a very close relationship to produce the gun (which by most accounts is a nice gun).

Then again, my Browning Hi Power is Made in Belgium, Assembled in Portugal, for a American company.

presspuller
August 1, 2008, 09:02 PM
Which is more American, the Chevy pick-up made in Ontario, or the BMW made in Spartanburg South carolina?

Actually the BMWs are made in Greer but nobody has ever heard of that little town.

Drgong
August 1, 2008, 09:10 PM
Unless your from NC and tried to date a girl from Greer... LOL

Prince Yamato
August 2, 2008, 12:28 AM
Hs2000 was the pistol to have when it hit the shores at $269. Now, just another plastic pistol.

It was also imported because it conveniently took modified Beretta 92 mags and those were during the days of the AWB. It was a Glock alternative that took cheaper pre-ban mags.

Defensory
August 2, 2008, 03:15 AM
Posted by Prince Yamato:
It's an HS2000 pistol rebadged, "Springfield XD". For the American market. It's like paying for a Glock marked, "American Gun Company, INC." instead of Glock. What you have there is a $400 pistol, that you pay $100 more for so that it has an American distributor's name on it. Clever marketing leads some to believe they are buying an "American Glock alternative".

And Springfield is SO SECRETIVE about the fact the XD is made in Croatia, that they put "MADE IN CROATIA" in capital letters right on the side of the gun! :what: :D

http://sgcusa.com/images/large/Springfield_Armory_XD_Tactical_A.jpg

Detritus
August 2, 2008, 10:52 AM
And Springfield is SO SECRETIVE about the fact the XD is made in Croatia, that they put "MADE IN CROATIA" in capital letters right on the side of the gun!

Yeah, but let's face it. the majority of buyers will never LOOK for the "made in" information on their pistol. having the name of an american company on the side is enough for them. ie they'll see the "Springfield Inc, Geneseo IL" and stop reading, if they bother to look at the frame markings at all.

Many buy the Springfield 1911s b/c they are of the belief that, "they're american made" (and b/c they're affordable). and never notice that most SA finished 1911s, and ALL of the slides and frames are made in Brazil. even though for all the finished guns the origin is stated not only as part of the markings on the gun but (at least when they still shipped in cardboard) right on the box as well.

Rmart30
August 2, 2008, 11:24 AM
Yeah, but let's face it. the majority of buyers will never LOOK for the "made in" information on their pistol. having the name of an american company on the side is enough for them.

Thats not SA'a fault, that the buyers lack of attention to what they are buying.

Ive had all brands of guns and dont drink any one brands "kool aid". The XD's are same dang tough guns. Ive got 2 of them now a 9sc and a 45c and I couldnt be more satisfied. :)

larry starling
August 2, 2008, 12:12 PM
More info for ya if you didn't know , But most of there 1911's are made in Brazil by IMBEL!.... I owned a HS2000 excellent pistol for the $300 I paid for it. But im not willing to put out the extra $$$$ for the same gun with Springfield roll marks on it.:scrutiny:

mulletguter
August 2, 2008, 12:15 PM
Hs2000 was the pistol to have when it hit the shores at $269.

I got the HS2000 when they first came out. Don’t know how many rounds I’ve put through it (a lot) it’s still going strong not one problem.

bleachcola
August 2, 2008, 02:20 PM
I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack about what I'm about to type. But I don't really care. To be honest, I'd rather buy a pistol made in Croatia than one made in America. I'm proud to be an American but I am not proud of the modern day American work ethic. If someone in Croatia is lucky enough to get a job at that plant then they are going to do whatever it takes to keep that position. The average American these days could care less though. If he gets fired he knows he can milk unemployment for six months and then get a job somewhere else with a decent amount of effort. Obviously this blanket statement doesn't reflect every company in America nor every worker, but it's a high enough rate that I wouldn't trust my life on it.

bleachcola
August 2, 2008, 02:25 PM
Just for example, I'll bring up something that a cousin of mine told me about the folks over in Bosnia (was there back when we were doing the peacekeeping missions, et cetera). They had a fast food joint on the base that was staffed by locals. Even though these guys were just making burgers and fries you could recognize the pride and effort they put into making everything perfect. They were happy about being employed and making money and wanted to continue doing so. Compare that to your local McDonald's. How much work ethic did that punk kid put into making your fries? How much does he care about the product he put out there? Obviously this isn't a direct comparison to firearm production but it just goes to show the different mental states that our areas of the world have. The workforce we have in America today isn't what our parents and grandparents had. It's embarrassing.

GingerGuy
August 2, 2008, 04:05 PM
How much work ethic did that punk kid put into making your fries? How much does he care about the product he put out there?

I would venture to say every generation had its kids with poor work ethics, that why you have no-where going jobs for them to fill. But you also have the top 10% or more of each generation that is proud of their accomplishment, has been brought up right and will be a valuable contributor to our society is some way, large or small.

I don't blame the kids, it's the parents that either demand that their children know right from wrong or the ones that just let nature runs its course.

There are kids out there that want to excel and they are doing so....and I say way-to-go to them all.

Rustynuts
August 2, 2008, 06:49 PM
SA also cleverly uses the 100+ years in the logo/ads implying they are still the same old federal Springfield Armory of old (since 1777). Nope, they've only been around 30-yrs. US closed the original SA in 1968.

bleachcola
August 2, 2008, 06:54 PM
I do find that aspect pretty regarding SA.

Rmart30
August 2, 2008, 07:01 PM
I do find that aspect pretty redacted regarding SA

thats not a uncommon practice in all types of bussiness. CVS or rite aid boast of 50 yrs in bussiness or something of that sort, they support that claim only because one of the smaller independant stores they bought out and put their name on had been open that long. Its not right, but thats what they do. :rolleyes:

Beagle-zebub
August 2, 2008, 07:23 PM
Hey hey, it was DESIGNED in Croatia, too. Production was not outsourced to there.

Don't hate on Croatia, either--there's at least one Croatian on here.

Besides, it's a take-off of the Glock that is oh-so clearly redesigned to appeal to the more discerning taste of American shooters. You've gotta love when a company caters to its customers' tastes in such a manner, especially when it's at the expense of another firm that failed to do so.

basicblur
August 2, 2008, 07:37 PM
but when doing research before buying mine reports said the grip angle had been changed (Springfield specifying 1911 angle) and of course, some other features were added. Grip angle was a biggie for me since the first few Glocks I tried never fit my hand.

Now whether the grip angle story is true, I can't say since shops in our area have no HS2000s you can lay hands on.
Didn't matter anyway, since after reading tests results of the XD (shooting and torture), liking some of the features added, and thinking the XD is a much better looking gun than the HS2000 (not that it matters much, but given a choice who’s not going to take the better looking one?), I bought one-may buy another down the road.

Yeah, I knew 'bout it's history etc before buying, but it appears to me to be more than a “rebadged HS2000”!

bleachcola
August 2, 2008, 07:51 PM
I love my XD-40sc and use it for my CCW piece. I could care less about anything other than reliability, ergonomics, and accuracy of the piece. I just think it's an added bonus that it looks cooler than most plastic pieces. I'd buy the thing even if it were made in a Vietnamese sweat shop. It's a damn fine pistol.

XD-40 Shooter
August 2, 2008, 09:05 PM
There was a guy at the last gun show I went too, started messing me with me in a joking way, because I was wearing an XD cap and t-shirt. He says he's a 1911 guy and prefer's American made guns.:rolleyes: So I'm thinking to myself, "yeah, all the top shelf guns are made in Europe, HK, Sig, XD, Baretta, Walther, and Glock".:D Lol at this guy, nothing wrong with American made guns per-se, but I don't think a S&W M&P will run with a Sig or HK.:p

As far as the XD goes, I could care less that its made in Croatia, its a damn fine pistol, that's all that matters to me.

Drgong
August 2, 2008, 10:43 PM
Was actually thinking, I don't have ONE american made gun... A hungarian, a Russian, a Czech, and lastly one made in Belgium.

Perhaps I will buy a american one next, of course, I just find what is best for me.

9mmepiphany
August 3, 2008, 07:41 PM
other than their custom shop, does Springfield "make" any guns? i know Browning never has.

Detritus
August 4, 2008, 01:24 AM
other than their custom shop, does Springfield "make" any guns?

they've done a few runs of US made guns, that read to me as "wow we have a large surplus of model specific parts for the [Model X], how about we build a run of them to reduce that surplus, give them NM-prefixed serial numbers and 'Made in USA' roll marks"

last example i saw of this was some WW2-GIs that showed up in two local shops marked "Made in USA", NM-serial#s, an older style of hammer with shiny side flats, and stainless bushings. these were running about $100-150 more than a Imbel marked GI.

plexreticle
August 4, 2008, 01:56 AM
Guns are not fighter jets. Any country that can afford a factory with WW2 or newer technology should be able to turn out some decent small arms.

Prince Yamato
August 4, 2008, 02:13 AM
Yeah, I knew 'bout it's history etc before buying, but it appears to me to be more than a “rebadged HS2000”!

There is some texture added to the grip and a light rail. That's it. It's the same basic design, originally meant to use Beretta 92 mags- they didn't change the grip angle.

mr.trooper
August 4, 2008, 02:18 AM
Which is more American, the Chevy pick-up made in Ontario, or the BMW made in Spartanburg South carolina?

Had a Pontiac...It was made in Canada.

Had a Ford... It was make in Mexico.

My Saturn is made in Tennessee though. :D

Detritus
August 4, 2008, 02:39 AM
My Saturn is made in Tennessee though.

OT but..

If you stay with Saturn and are doing so for the "made in the US" aspect, don't buy an Astra. they're made somewhere in Europe by Opel.

In fact my most recent experience, and the revalation by my dealer (after we'd signed the papers) that ALL of the current saturn lineup, and by extension the other GM products that are "rebadges" of the same basic cars, are Opel designs built in US factories (with exception of the above noted Astra), have lead my wife and I to decide that the VUE we just bought will be our last new saturn.
this is not b/c it's not a US design, etc all that BS, but directly b/c i would not have and never will KNOWINGLY buy anything designed by Opel!!

Frank Ettin
August 4, 2008, 03:08 AM
Bottom line is that, from what I've heard, the XD is a good gun. I've shot a couple belonging to other people and was favorably impressed. I have one of the small ones that I've never shot -- won it in a raffle a few years back. It seems ot be nicely put together and has a good trigger for a striker fired pistol. So I probably ought to try it out.

So if someone wants that kind of pistol, it seems to me that the XD is worth a look no matter where it's made or who designed it. (Still prefer the 1911 myself, however.)

flynlr
August 4, 2008, 05:30 AM
but I don't think a S&W M&P will run with a Sig or HK.

thems fighting words:neener: now go find someone to fight .. Its my naptime.

Rustynuts
August 4, 2008, 07:19 PM
Aren't most sigs sold here made in the US now?

19-3Ben
August 4, 2008, 07:55 PM
but I don't think a S&W M&P will run with a Sig or HK.

thems fighting words now go find someone to fight .. Its my naptime.


I was just about to beg to differ. Looks like flynlr beat me to it.

I'd put my M&P up against any Sig, HK, Glock, XD, Beretta, or anything short of true custom guns. For me it shoots more accurately, with less recoil, and has had not one stoppage yet (about 700 rounds).
I know in more capable hands, it can probably do better than in mine.
But this is OT, so I'll leave it at that.

GTSteve03
August 4, 2008, 09:45 PM
The "Made in Croatia" thing doesn't bother me, Europeans have been at the whole "making guns" thing far longer than Americans.

What does bother me about Springfield is that for some reason they won't let you buy any factory parts for your XD so you can have spares on-hand. Why is that? :confused:

MechAg94
August 4, 2008, 09:52 PM
Y'all also should consider that if Glocks and XD's were all made in the US with US made parts and labor, the cost would be significantly higher. That is just economics.

Your Saturn may be "assembled" in the US, but are all the parts made there?

9mmepiphany
August 4, 2008, 09:59 PM
What does bother me about Springfield is that for some reason they won't let you buy any factory parts for your XD so you can have spares on-hand. Why is that?

they don't have any ?

.cheese.
August 4, 2008, 10:03 PM
HS2000 made in Croatia:
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hs-xd-1.jpg

Springfield Armory XD (also made in Croatia):
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hs-xd-3.jpg

Springfield Armory XDm (still made in Croatia):
http://www.topgunsupply.com/images/D/IMGP1554.JPG

Clown (for comparison purposes):
http://www.sunnytheclown.net/db4/00346/sunnytheclown.net/_uimages/clown.jpg

Any questions?

Rmart30
August 4, 2008, 10:07 PM
What does bother me about Springfield is that for some reason they won't let you buy any factory parts for your XD so you can have spares on-hand. Why is that?

most of the parts can be bought on XDGUYS.com......... in 30 yrs of owning guns Ive never needed to replace a part and hope i never do unless its some kinda nice upgrade :)

mr.scott
August 4, 2008, 10:12 PM
/c i would not have and never will KNOWINGLY buy anything designed by Opel!

Opel is a GM company.
As far as the XD line goes, it's my favorite gun I've had. It shoots well, is easy to maintain, and is comfortable to carry.
Plus the springfield lifetime warranty is 2nd to none. Taurus claims to have a lifetime warranty, but that is because it will take a lifetime to get any results with them. :P

thegoodfight
August 4, 2008, 10:13 PM
many people drink the XD kool aid

.cheese.
August 4, 2008, 10:39 PM
many people drink the XD kool aid

True. However, even as a Glock fan who owns 6 .40 cal Glocks, I will give Springfield Armory credit for the new XDm. I am strongly considering getting a pair (I always buy guns in pairs).

I think the new XDm would be a great IDPA gun. It would either be 2 XDms or 2 Glock 35s. I'll probably go with the Glock 35 just because I already have lots of Glock mags.

Northern-Lights
August 4, 2008, 11:07 PM
I recently bought a XD 9 in 4 inch. Before I bought it....I tried out Glock...Sig...Tauras.....Beretta.......and the list goes on. I was about to get the Sig P 229 when I spied the XD. When I picked it up....it felt great. Unlike many of the others.....when I looked at an object....then closed my eyes and raised the gun....the XD was always pointing right at the object when I opened my eyes.

So...ergonomically, it was perfect for me. Then there was the trigger. It's a very smooth one....much better than most....and about the same feeling as a Sig.

The last two points I likes was the ease in field stripping it. Wow....1, 2, 3 and it's apart. Takes about 5 seconds......and about the same to put it back together.

Of course...haveing the price about $150 less than a Sig was a great tipping point.

I'm now considering a XDm 9 for a better concealed gun and will use my 4 inch for home and competition at my local club.

From my perspective.....it's a great gun. I've got a buddy who is a long time Glock man and now he's also bought one and is talking about selling his Glocks to buy more XD's.

Lucky Strike
August 13, 2008, 10:28 PM
It didn't bother me that they are made in Croatia when i bought one.....as far as "paying $100 for SA's roll marks", that didn't bother me either because it's still cheaper then a Glock and a better gun IMO.

DA_BULLS
August 13, 2008, 10:47 PM
I bought my Taurus PT917C rather than a Beretta because they (Beretta) did not offer a similar product. I don't care for a lot of the Taurus line, but the 92 variations are first rate and seldom is seen anything bad about them. I'm not wild about their polymer lines of pistols.

I for one, would rather have a HS2000 than a XD.

rockinrussky
August 13, 2008, 10:57 PM
As far as Geopolitics go I don't have a problem buying anything made in Croatia. Now if the XD was manufactured by the People's Republic of China or Venezuela thats a whole other issue. Either way, I own an XD 4 inch and its a great and reliable firearm.

Loomis
August 13, 2008, 11:04 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but not only is the XD made in croatia, IT'S ALSO A CROATIAN DESIGN. Springfield doesn't do anything but put their name on it and ask for exclusive import rights.

Another really really good pistol from the former yugoslavia is the CZ99, aka zastava EZ, aka charles daly ZDA, aka TZ99.

Oh, btw, the EAA witness? It's actually an italian tanfoglio.

The AR-24, nope, not american...made in turkey by sarsimilaz, or something like that.

I'm pretty sure the kimber ten-II is actually the same thing as a charles daly M-5, and the wilson combat KZ-45, and is actually made by BUL, which is israeli.

Also, the kimber KDP seems awfully similar to the ruger SR9. They're probably both made by some foreign company.

I have my suspicions about the STI GP6 too.

ghstrdyr
June 12, 2009, 12:43 AM
What does bother me about Springfield is that for some reason they won't let you buy any factory parts for your XD so you can have spares on-hand. Why is that?

most of the parts can be bought on XDGUYS.com......... in 30 yrs of owning guns Ive never needed to replace a part and hope i never do unless its some kinda nice upgrade

you can also try springer. they make some great stuff as well.

cchris
June 12, 2009, 12:58 PM
Here's a question - is it more "American" to buy a gun whose profits will go to an American company, or buy a gun made in America whose profits go to an overseas company?

Point in case: BMW or Chevy. Buying a Chevrolet made in Ontario gives the profit to the struggling American company while paying the salaries of Canadian workers. Buying a BMW made in Greer (outside of Greenville) gives the profit to a German company, while paying the salaries of American workers.

I don't see a problem with either, since I have a couple Chevrolets (I buy them used, since I know just about everything that goes wrong with early 90's ones and exactly how to fix them) but I also go to Clemson, who entered a partnership with BMW (along with Michelin, Timken, Mazda and a few other companies) to create ICAR, the International Center for Automotive Research - a graduate campus and testing facility located in Greenville, SC. This incredibly-advanced facility wouldn't be available to my classmates that are graduating had it not been for people buying cars from the chief corporate investor, BMW. And some of the people who graduate there will go on to work for American companies, provided they are still around.

My point is, it'll all work its way back around. Buy whatever you like the best, regardless of other factors.

verdun59
June 12, 2009, 01:11 PM
cchris,
Partner you better hang on to those Chevys because the new uhbama models are going to be a whole lot different. Government designed, it's going to be great........

Lone_Gunman
June 12, 2009, 02:47 PM
Buying a Chevrolet made in Ontario gives the profit to the struggling American company while paying the salaries of Canadian workers.

Wrong, buying a Chevrolet now means you are supporting a socialist country.

ReloaderFred
June 12, 2009, 03:03 PM
Back to the original post:

I dislike the XD so much that I only own 6 of them. I've got them in the following calibers and models:

9mm Sub Compact (3 of them)
357 Sig Service (1)
.45 acp Service (1)
9x19 XD-M (1)

If they come out with an XD-M in .45 acp, that will be number 7......... I'd really like to see one in 10mm, but that's probably not going to happen.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Dr.Rob
June 12, 2009, 04:01 PM
Hey my first car was an Opel GT and it was a fantastic car!

Like the CZ-75, the HS 2000 got a WHOLE bunch of gunwriters excited, not just because it was NEW, but because it was well engineered.

Unlike the CZ, the HS design wasn't sold off to numerous entities like the CZ was.

Now that CZ has a US branch office, its sort of odd that people are still buying Witness/Tanfoglio pistols, but thats just how things go sometimes.

I'm sure Croatia got a nice solid and exclusive agreement from SA.

Now if SA made a deal for the all steel Russian Grach... maybe I'd buy one.

KBintheSLC
June 12, 2009, 04:13 PM
Which is more American, the Chevy pick-up made in Ontario, or the BMW made in Spartanburg South carolina?

Exactly...

Col. Plink
June 12, 2009, 04:38 PM
I know what you mean. I have a XD45T, a Croatian gun frequently loaded with Serbian (Prvi Partizan) ammo. What a mix!

The better question is why can't America do better with providing quality handguns at competitive prices and plentiful ammo that doesn't break the bank? And don't tell me about labor prices, the WalMarts where I buy my ammo are overrun with illegal aliens spending our tax money on foreign-made junk and high-fructose corn syrup.

S&WMP45
June 12, 2009, 04:49 PM
xd's are garbage, sold mine after only a month

verdun59
June 12, 2009, 05:51 PM
Gee S&MP45 what part is garbage. Mine has always run flawlessly, I don't see anything that resembles garbage on mine. Did yours smell, or was it half eaten, coffee grinds, dead fish, etc. Garbage ??

9mmepiphany
June 12, 2009, 06:49 PM
And don't tell me about labor prices, the WalMarts where I buy my ammo are overrun with illegal aliens spending our tax money on foreign-made junk and high-fructose corn syrup

how does their spending money at WalMart negate to cost of american product being the resault of increased labour cost?

nalioth
June 12, 2009, 07:14 PM
you can also try springer. they make some great stuff as well. Do you think that the first post people who wake these zombie threads are making their first post of their lives on an internet discussion board?

Post dates are there for a purpose. Please consider them.

jim147
June 12, 2009, 11:03 PM
Come on nalioth. You have to love zombies. And now there are new childish comments so we can get ready for all the IBTL posts to soon follow.
Back on the very old subject. My XD45 is my carry weapon whenever I leave the homestead. I don't care where it was made. It always works.

jim

REAPER4206969
June 13, 2009, 02:32 AM
but I don't think a S&W M&P will run with a Sig or HK.
You would be wrong. Also, the Smith & Wesson Military & Police was designed in part by Walther engineers.

Ash
June 13, 2009, 08:03 AM
Y'all also should consider that if Glocks and XD's were all made in the US with US made parts and labor, the cost would be significantly higher. That is just economics.

Except that Ruger proves that completely wrong.

As to design etc, the Springfield P9's were rebranded Tanfoglios, which meant you could by an FIE TZ-75 or pay more for the same pistol with SA's mark on it.

In any case, I don't mind SA or HS getting rich off the XD. Marketing saved it. Had SA not gotten involved, the HS2000 might have faded (or been about as obscure as the CZ-99, which I have).

In any case, I have mostly Euro designs not because of workmanship or because of cost but because there are just those designs I like best like the CZ-75.

I do drive a Jeep Cherokee (original), and am happy with buying American where ever and when ever I can. American workers build excellent goods (like Nissan, Toyota, Mercedes, etc, but then, none of those are union made).

In any case, Europe might have been making guns longer than us, the US is responsible for interchangability of firearms parts as well as serial production of firearms that Europe copied. As it stands, though, there is no genetic superiority that allows one nation to better design than another, merely an environment conducive to production.

Ash

krs
June 13, 2009, 10:48 AM
My old English 1A prof would insist that the logo says that it is the Springfield Manufacturing Company that is made in Croatia, not the pistol upon which that logo appears.

Whatever, my XD45 Tactical is the biggest and most reliable of my .45 acp pistols, and I have a LOT of .45 acp pistols.

gator1gear
June 13, 2009, 11:10 AM
"many people drink the XD kool-aid" True, but kool-aid comes in a lot of flavors. Cherry, Blueberry, Glock, M&P, raspberry etc. XD kool-aid tastes best to me.



I used to drag race in Greer, S.C.

possum
June 13, 2009, 03:58 PM
many people drink the XD kool aid
i really don't know what people mean when they say "drinking the so and so kool aid. i have and have owned multiple, i have shot /trained with almost every model avaliable, and i have always been 100% satisfied.

my xd service model has over 14,000rds through, it has been to 3 high round count handgun training courses, and countless training days at my local range. no issues.

xd's are garbage, sold mine after only a month
sorry you feel that way, sounds like what the guys over at getoffthex.com say. mine has been great.

another place to get replacement parts is www.pistolgear.com that is where i get all my parts.

one poster stated that in 30years of shooting he has never changed a part. if you shoot enough and run your guns enough, you will need to eventually. once again i think my signature line sums it up well.

ReloaderFred
June 13, 2009, 06:59 PM
xd's are garbage, sold mine after only a month

That's hardly enough time to make an intelligent evaluation on anything. I even still liked my ex-wife after the first month of marriage..........

Fred

possum
June 13, 2009, 09:59 PM
xd's are garbage, sold mine after only a month

That's hardly enough time to make an intelligent evaluation on anything.


i agree, i am glad that to know that i am not the only one that feels that a month isn't enough.

ar10
June 13, 2009, 10:45 PM
Hate to burst your bubble, but not only is the XD made in croatia, IT'S ALSO A CROATIAN DESIGN. Springfield doesn't do anything but put their name on it and ask for exclusive import rights.

At least it works and is a lot better quality than a few "made in America" brands I know of.

S&WMP45
June 18, 2009, 11:02 PM
well here's the issues i had with my xd:

-the more the barrel heated up, the worse the accuracy became (much worse), and it was already inaccurate with a cold barrel.

-i put 700 rounds through it before i sold it-all fmj of different brands and they all had failures to feed (about a dozen per box)

don't you xd lovers ever wonder why absolutely ZERO police departments issue the xd, while about 400 already issue the m&p?

and aftermarket match grade barrels are drop in on the glock and m&p, but they are "semi-drop in" on the xd because the xd tolerances vary a lot more greatly from one gun to the other.

greater tolerance variability=malfunctioning & inconsistency!

i make a pretty good case for xd's being garbage, don't i?:neener:

(oh yeah go to christiangunowner.com and read his review of the xd-sounds eerily similar to mine, and he tried buying 2 different ones!)

ar10
June 18, 2009, 11:25 PM
S&WMP45:

Well enjoy what you shoot. I really don't care. But you might consider that maybe not everyone has or had your problem whether they're imaginary or real. Just curious, are you in the business of selling S&W's?

S&WMP45
June 18, 2009, 11:32 PM
no, i'm in the business of buying quality guns! i don't work at a gunshop. i just like shooting:)

i own cz's, paragiexpert, glock, and s&w and all those are good quality!

HorseSoldier
June 18, 2009, 11:42 PM
Buddy of mine I went through the police academy with now carries a 40 cal XDm instead of his department issued Glock. Bunch of rounds through it, including some pretty intensive all-day range sessions and I've not seen him having any trouble with it. Maybe he got a particularly good one that made it out of the factory alongside some lemons or whatever, but based on what I've seen of his I would feel acceptably armed with an XD (though I'll keep my 1911 before carrying any plastic guns).

S&WMP45
June 18, 2009, 11:50 PM
yeah i like 1911's too-good man

ReloaderFred
June 19, 2009, 12:49 AM
None of my six (6) XD's have demonstrated any of the problems you claim to have incurred, and they have had thousands of rounds through them. My wife carries one, and it's the only Semi-auto handgun she's ever been able to shoot well. She also shoots lots of rounds in matches each month, but those are all revolver rounds. She's an experienced shooter, and loves her XD.

There are numerous police agencies who authorize the XD for service, even if they don't issue them, by the way.

Your limited experience with the gun doesn't qualify you as an expert anymore than my extensive experience with them qualifies me as one.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ar10
June 19, 2009, 09:03 AM
ReloaderFred

I shoot with LEO's nearly every week and have been for over 3 years. I also work at a fairly large outside range and on weekends I get between 100 and 200 shooters at any given time with about every type of gun you can shoot. Of all the problems shooters have I would guess 99% are operator errors very few are actually problems with the gun itself.

S&WMP45 statements and condemnation of his particular problems with the XD is inconsistent with what I see all the time, and I shoot all 6 of my XD's all the time. This last winter alone I reloaded 8,000 bullets and I'm now down to less than 300, and all through every caliber of XD's and I been doing for a very long time.

It's one thing to post a problem someone has with a gun, it's another when it turns into bashing thread because a single person thinks the gun is "garbage". It may be for S&WMP45 but apparently it isn't for a lot of others. :mad:

sanerkeki
June 19, 2009, 09:26 AM
Yea they are made in Croatia. I have the original HS 2000 in 9x19 and it really is a good gun, nothing fancy about it. I also have 4 xd's and they are similar to Glock but much better made and can handle more.

ReloaderFred
June 19, 2009, 11:53 AM
ar10,

I'm a retired LEO manager and former rangemaster for a department with over 1,000 employees. I've fired just about every handgun made, and have carried one every day for over 40 years. Unlike S&WMP45, I don't consider myself an expert on firearms, since there is always something to learn. His other trolling/hate thread has been locked and he's been warned by the moderators to tone it down. If he doesn't, then I'm sure they will take other measures.

My experience with my 9x19, 357 Sig, .45 acp, and new 9x19 XD-M XD's have been nothing but good. I own over 50 handguns and can carry just about anything I want, but the only gun I carry anymore is an XD. Mine have all been flawless, and since they're designed to be "service" handguns, they perform that function exceedingly well.

When fed the proper ammunition, they run like they're supposed to, and that's all I can ask of any handgun.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Butter
June 19, 2009, 12:27 PM
Same experience here as with most of the proponents of the XD. Own 4 of them based on my experience with the first one. One of the pistols has close to 12,000 rounds through it and still goes bang. I have taken that through 4 defensive pistol classes and one IDPA match. No faultering.

Others may not like the gun or tell you that it doesn't feel right in their hands. The latter is a definite reason to not like it. However, what I haven't come across are any reliability issues from the owners I know. Of course there are lemons out there, but the folks that I do know who own 'em consider them good for a few reasons: Easy take down, good grip angle, and especially their reliability. I'd throw in pretty accurate as well. The standard model .45acp XD that I own shoots really, really well.

So some might not like it and there are different takes for different folks, but I personally don't hear too many complaints, the previous poster aside.

Col. Plink
June 19, 2009, 04:33 PM
Is the Tactical model XD45 (5") considered the 'standard' model? Is it what they call the 'servce' model too? I'm guessing they're the same, as they call the 4" .45 the 'compact'. Just wondering what the Tactical model has over the others...

9mmepiphany
June 19, 2009, 04:52 PM
the "standard" model is the 4" service model...like a Colt Commander.

the 5" tactical model comes with the longer barrel...like a Colt Government Model

the "compact" model also has the 4" barrel, but has a shorter grip frame...like a Colt Commander slide on an Officer frame

their "sub-compact" has the Compact grip frame, but with a 3" barrel...like a Colt Officer ACP

i think part of the confusion is that in 9mm and .40, they call the 3" barreled version the "Compact"

ReloaderFred
June 19, 2009, 04:56 PM
The Service Model has a 4" barrel, and the Tactical Model has a 5" barrel. In the .45 acp, the Compact has a 4" barrel, but a shorter grip to facilitate concealed carry.

The Compact .45 magazine holds 10 rounds of .45 acp, while the Service and Tactical magazines will hold 13 rounds. They also offer the fullsize magazine with a grip filler that will fit the Compact model and make the grip the same size as the Service and Tactical models.

In the 9x19 and .40 S&W calibers, there is a Sub-Compact that has a 3" barrel.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ar10
June 19, 2009, 05:51 PM
It gets complicated. When I bought my 1st one.45GAP (5") it was the tactical, my second was the .40 service, (4" barrel), then came the 9mm service (4"), next was the 9mm sub (3"), next was the .40 sub (3") and my last was the .45APC compact (4"). What's screwy is I was looking at a .40 compact 4" barrel at the same time I was carrying my 40 service, 4" barrel. I saw no difference but the salesman state they were different. I went to my truck, dropped the mag and ejected the chamber, then went back in. I asked to see the 40 again when he brought it out I laid mine on the counter. Other than his being new and cleaner there was absolutely no difference in either of them. Neither him or myself could figure it out, we even field stripped them and swapped barrels and slides. :confused:

lukepriebe
June 19, 2009, 06:17 PM
I've shot about 8 different varieties of ammo through my .40 and never had a ftf. I have nothing but love for the gun and so do all my friends and family that have shot it.

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