Academy sucks (open carry story)


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p89cajun
August 1, 2008, 11:20 PM
So I have been open carrying for a couple of months now and frequent the lafayette, louisiana academy a lot, at least once a week. I never had a problem until tonight.

I was looking at the wrangler jeans when I noticed a worker in his 40's locked onto my para warthog. I hear him call over another employee and tell her to keep an eye on me and then he calls for a manager. I knew I was about to be asked to leave and tried to ask the girl that was "watching me" a question before the manager came. The guy that called for a manager came over and told me that academys store policy didn't allow guns on the store floor and told me how if you buy a gun there they have to walk you out the store. I explained how I knew that process well as I had bought 5 guns from them last year. I asked if I covered it if it would be o.k. He said no he would know it was there. He said to go put it in the truck and next time to leave it there too. Now I was polite and complient the whole time and was even the one who asked if I should leave before they had a chance to ask me to leave but this is where it goes bad.

When he told me that I couldn't carry concealed and to leave it in my truck next time, I replied with "If that is the store policy I will not be shopping at academy." The guy gets pissed and says if thats the case I need to leave NOW and I guess you would call it "nudged" me towards the door. It was not a full push but there was phisical contact. I remained polite and the other manager walked me to the door. I felt like he had me against a wall cause I had been asked to leave and if I stayed and argued it would be refusing to leave. My mom was with me because she had just taken me and my daughter out to eat while my wife was at work. She went back in and got the guys name who had touched me and I will file a complaint. I gotta give him credit though, I am 6' 300 pounds with a gun on my hip and he still got a little phisical with me. Plus how hipicritical is it of academy to sell you a gun and then tell you they don't trust you with it.

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SapperMapper
August 1, 2008, 11:25 PM
Does Lousiana state law allow 'store policy' to override state regulations? Yeah, they can control what employees do, but I'm wondering how, if the state allows open carry, what makes their store so darn special? Particularly since, as you point out, THEY SELL GUNS!

Idjits.

mdao
August 1, 2008, 11:27 PM
Does Lousiana state law allow 'store policy' to override state regulations? Yeah, they can control what employees do, but I'm wondering how, if the state allows open carry, what makes their store so darn special. Particularly since, as you point out, THEY SELL GUNS!

Private property. They don't have to let you on it or sell to you.

herohog
August 1, 2008, 11:31 PM
I'm working off of rusty memory but unless they have proper signage posted, if you have your permit, as long as it is concealed, they can go suck eggs. Walk out, conceal, walk back in and they can't legally do squat.Doesn't mean they won't call the cops or hassle you, but by the letter of the law, they have no leg to stand on.

Hypnogator
August 1, 2008, 11:32 PM
If he physically pushed you, that is an assault and battery.

Your call whether you wish to file charges or a lawsuit.

jahwarrior
August 1, 2008, 11:33 PM
they can cuss you all they want, and kick you out, but that dude crossed the line with physical contact. you can charge him with assault, physical harassment, and a bunch of other stuff. don't take this crap lying down; go for their throat.

p89cajun
August 1, 2008, 11:34 PM
As far as I understand you can carry anywhere not prohibited by federal law but if you are asked to leave you must comply. When I began open carrying I knew this. It just goes to show academy doesn't care about the 2nd amendment just because the sell guns it is the money they care about. This and how the situation was handled on their part upset me.

phantomak47
August 1, 2008, 11:40 PM
NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM ACADEMY THREADS!!! WHY ARE HIGHROADERS STILL SHOPPING THERE!!!

sorry about the cap lock, this thread needed it!

SapperMapper
August 1, 2008, 11:41 PM
mdao - Okay, that makes sense. Not seemingly good business sense for a sporting goods store, but I guess it's their choice.

Standing Wolf
August 1, 2008, 11:50 PM
Not seemingly good business sense for a sporting goods store, but I guess it's their choice.

Yep. If you can't respect the nation's civil rights, you can't have my dollars.

halfbreed808
August 2, 2008, 12:02 AM
Press charges. Press charges. Press charges. Then sue,sue sue.:evil::fire:

8830
August 2, 2008, 12:15 AM
Forget pressing charges. Go talk to a lawyer and sue them. This whole deal with them is BS. I knew there was reason I don't like shopping there anymore.

Lurp
August 2, 2008, 03:43 AM
I work the gun counter at an Academy and I just mailed my first letter of complaint about their 21+ to buy "tactical" rifles :evil:. Hope I don't get fired ;) . They have good prices, but like any other chain store, are suseptible to stupid policies.

FCFC
August 2, 2008, 08:09 AM
The guy gets pissed and says if thats the case I need to leave NOW and I guess you would call it "nudged" me towards the door. It was not a full push but there was phisical contact.

She went back in and got the guys name who had touched me and I will file a complaint. I gotta give him credit though, I am 6' 300 pounds with a gun on my hip and he still got a little phisical with me.

When the man touched you, were you standing still? Did he do it with his hands? Were you facing him when he touched you?

How big was the guy that "nudged" you? Do you think he might have been armed with a gun or no?

When he "nudged" you, did you push back or touch him in any way?

Huckle2
August 2, 2008, 08:18 AM
p89cajun - you handled yourself very well, remained calm, and professional. Simply take your business elsewhere but let them know why. If the contact made was a physical assault, you were within your rights to defend yourself. Obviously you did not feel threatened. Don't get lulled into a trivial lawsuit or complaint that will do nothing but waste your time and money! Let it go, shop elsewhere!

Mr White
August 2, 2008, 08:37 AM
Keep in mind that unless you have witnesses, who will testify, that he pushed you, you won't get too far with charges or a lawsuit. I could almost guarantee you that he'll have 2 or 3 witnesses who'll swear that they never saw him make physical contact with you.

jakemccoy
August 2, 2008, 08:45 AM
Give them an opportunity to apologize and make things right with a gift certificate. Give them bad press in the media if they don't. If I were a store owner or manager I'd make sure that you received a letter of apology and a gift certificate immediately.

Press charges for assault and batter if you want to go after the employee. Pressing charges is an action against that one employee, not against the store.

Sue the store later in civil court if you're bored and have money to burn. The problem with a civil suit is that your injuries were little or nothing. So, you're likely to get little or nothing from a civil suit. The civil suit would be more for effect.

A letter of apology and a complimentary new gun would satisfy me.

p89cajun
August 2, 2008, 10:54 AM
I don't want to press charges or anything just let academy know how porly it was handled.

SCKimberFan
August 2, 2008, 11:15 AM
You absolutely need to write a letter to the President of the company, with copies going to every manager down the ladder (Regional, District, etc), advising them of your treatment at one of their stores. If they don't respond, threaten to take it to one of the "investigative reporters" from a local TV station (although they may or may not be interested). Any time this type of action is employed, you will usually get some kind of satisfactory result.

Acera
August 2, 2008, 11:20 AM
p89cajun thank you for not pressing charges. That kind of contact was not an assault. It is that kind of frivolousness that many here are screaming for makes me want to puke.

You handled yourself as a man, good job.

neviander
August 2, 2008, 11:20 AM
I gotta give him credit though, I am 6' 300 pounds with a gun on my hip and he still got a little phisical with me.
I wouldn't chalk that up to bravery, more like ignorance.

realmswalker
August 2, 2008, 12:03 PM
p89cajun thank you for not pressing charges. That kind of contact was not an assault. It is that kind of frivolousness that many here are screaming for makes me want to puke.


That's actually not true. That is assault and battery. You don't actually have to make contact with someone to be charged and arrested for assault. As for frivolous, that may be true but he had no right to touch you.

As for witnesses, I guarantee they have more than enough cameras to back your story.

If it bothered you that much, call their corporate headquarters. Tell them what happened and you are going to press charges if some kind of corrective action is not taken against this guy. If they say they will, make sure they follow up with you so you know they did something.

In this economy I don't want to see anyone get fired, but if this guy did make contact with you, then idiots like this need to be disciplined.

TallPine
August 2, 2008, 12:05 PM
You should press charges, or just forget about it :rolleyes:

Rmart30
August 2, 2008, 12:12 PM
You absolutely need to write a letter to the President of the company, with copies going to every manager down the ladder (Regional, District, etc), advising them of your treatment at one of their stores. If they don't respond, threaten to take it to one of the "investigative reporters" from a local TV station (although they may or may not be interested). Any time this type of action is employed, you will usually get some kind of satisfactory result.

I dont know if I would threaten them but I dang sure would write letters and back it up by calling the corp office a few times and having the story heard or read by enough people to get some attention drawn to it.
I would also emphasis if it is the "co policy" for a employee to lay hands on a customer. (we all know it isnt) Most companies policy will be to call the PD and have them handle anything other than verbal.

FCFC
August 2, 2008, 12:43 PM
I would also emphasis if it is the "co policy" for a employee to lay hands on a customer. (we all know it isnt) Most companies policy will be to call the PD and have them handle anything other than verbal.
That's very true. In retailing, one of the primary rules is "Don't touch the customer."

Although it is always possible for laying hands to happen, it would be highly unusual.

And for it to happen to a guy that is 6' and 300 lbs would be extremely unusual! (How big was the store employee, I wonder...).

And for it to happen to a a 6'/300 lbs. guy with a gun would be.....astonishingly unusual.

I wonder if there is something missing from the account we've read. I don't know. One thing that I do know is that one side of an adversarial account seldom is a complete picture of the event.

It would be good to get the store employee's side of the incident....

Still, if the store employee did "nudge" the OP, the OP exhibited a considerable amount of restraint by not reciprocating. Good on him.

OTOH, if the above incident was not totally described by the OP, then Academy in Lafayette may be getting some unjustified bad word of mouth.

Hard to tell.

jakemccoy
August 2, 2008, 07:43 PM
p89cajun thank you for not pressing charges. That kind of contact was not an assault. It is that kind of frivolousness that many here are screaming for makes me want to puke.

You handled yourself as a man, good job.

The employee's actions as described are technically an assault and battery. The OP may press charges. I'm not saying I would though.

22-rimfire
August 2, 2008, 08:11 PM
I would just not shop there if it is important to you. I don't favor open carry in general except in the outdoors. At the present, it is a bit too "in your face". If you were carrying conealed, you would not have had this problem as they would never have known you were armed.

Clean97GTI
August 2, 2008, 08:20 PM
This country is entirely too litigious.

Just don't shop there anymore and inform people why they shouldn't either.
With the huge amount of free webspace and cheap blog space available these days, I'm sure you could get your opinion out there. A Youtube account and a cheap camera are all you need to vent your frustrations to any who will listen.

Don't be a pansy and file suit just because some doofus bumped into you.

FiveBillionAcres
August 2, 2008, 08:43 PM
shoving someone doesn't qualify as assault in most places, generally there has to be some kind of temporary or lasting injury. Harassment at best and it's not likely to see a court. However he should be fired for touching a customer in a hostile manor

22-rimfire
August 2, 2008, 08:48 PM
However he should be fired for touching a customer in a hostile manner

Probably so. The customer is always right unless it violates store policy or the law.

Firethorn
August 2, 2008, 09:06 PM
I have to agree about suing, in this case, being better than pressing charges. Though if you can get a conviction on the assault case(without injury I don't know if battery would be appropriate), it pretty much seals any liability cases.

My reasoning on the lawsuit is that lawsuits cost money. Cost businesses that are gun-prohibiting/phobic enough and they'll change. We simply need to change the view that allowing CCW/open carry as possibly expensive liability wise to prohibiting it as probably expensive.

jakemccoy
August 2, 2008, 09:07 PM
It would be cool if people would start this type of thread in Legal, where probably everybody knows what misdemeanor assault is.

FCFC
August 2, 2008, 09:07 PM
Just don't shop there anymore and inform people why they shouldn't either.
With the huge amount of free webspace and cheap blog space available these days, I'm sure you could get your opinion out there. A Youtube account and a cheap camera are all you need to vent your frustrations to any who will listen.
That's a great idea.

It would get the word out there for almost anyone to see. If p89cajun wants to tell the world publicly how a certain individual at a certain Academy Sports & Outdoors store in Lafayette LA touched him, while ejecting him from the store....with his manager right there....supervising the action....then a YouTube video is a good way to do it.

He could send the link for the video to the manager at the Academy store.

ezypikns
August 2, 2008, 10:08 PM
but is open carry legal in the state of Louisiana?

p89cajun
August 2, 2008, 10:28 PM
Open carry is legal in louisiana just not common. I used to carry concealed every day but now am in a job where I tuck my shirt in and it is just more comfterable.

FCFC, I see your point of a one sided story. Hell I even had to ask my mom if it realy happened that way cause I still couldn't belive it. I can honestly say that is exactly how I remember it. He was actually kinda cool until I told him I was taking my business elsewhere. Then he changed on a dime. I suprised myself showing that much restraint but I am 24 and he was easily twice my age. He was as tall as me but not nearly as broad.

I hate to spread a bad word about a company I really liked. Like I said I bought five guns from them last year and was there probably once a week.

W.E.G.
August 2, 2008, 10:37 PM
Post this to the open-carry board.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum26/

Majic
August 3, 2008, 12:57 AM
As you were escorted out the doors you should have asked to be shown where the no gun sign or policy is posted. If nothing was posted then how should the public know their policy?

plexreticle
August 3, 2008, 01:06 AM
I make it a point not to nudge touch or grab on people that are OC. I would have felt obligated to to educate the manager why it's a bad idea.

LtShortcut
August 3, 2008, 02:09 AM
shoving someone doesn't qualify as assault in most places, generally there has to be some kind of temporary or lasting injury.

That's battery not assault.

All I have to do is touch you, no matter how slight, for it to be assault.

That's why you get charged with assault for spitting on a police officer.

jakemccoy
August 3, 2008, 02:15 AM
Misdemeanor battery doesn't need a lasting injury. An offensive touching is the minimum requirement. A store employee shoving a customer is an offensive touching to a reasonable person.

I wouldn't seek charges for such a battery. However, there seems to be some confusion as to whether or not we have a battery here.

This thread is hard to read. We shouldn't have to be here discussing the meaning of basic legal terms. It's otherwise an interesting thread.

realmswalker
August 3, 2008, 02:20 AM
That's battery not assault.

All I have to do is touch you, no matter how slight, for it to be assault.

That's why you get charged with assault for spitting on a police officer

You don't have to actually make physical contact with someone for it to be assault. If I swing a baseball bat at you, or a flyswatter, Assault.

If I hit you with either, battery.

Then you have the whole ablility and intent to harm, but that's geting into it more technically.

California Penal Code 240 - 248 :
240. An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.

Was it technically assault, yea. It was also battery. But no attorney would ever actually file on this, at least most of them wouldn't

If the shove had caused him to fall or hurt himself, different story. Either way the guy was out of line.

ccsniper
October 12, 2009, 08:38 PM
yeah I know this is old but I just had an experience at academy as well and I need to vent. A friend and I went to one to look for x39 (they are the only ones who have it for less than 10 bucks right now) and we notice a sticker placed on all the ar's and sig 556 and a couple of shotguns. The sticker says "This firearm can
not be sold to anyone under 21 years of age. *Except for members of active duty military". I have shopped there since they opened and those stickers were just placed there within the last week. So I ask about them and when the company policy changed. The man behind the counter says "thats the law, not policy" I know this is wrong and correct him. One of the other employees agrees with me and this guy begins to yell (actually yell) at me and the other employee that it is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to own anything related to home defense or tactical. I asked if I, a 20 year old needed to be able to defend myself and to which he replied "your not intelligent enough to own guns since you don't even know the law". The other employee just walked away and I left very angry. I am now boycotting Academy for their policy towards "tactical" or home defense firearms and have called that mans manager and complained, so did my friend. Ignorance angers me, especially when it is someone selling guns and has no idea as to the gun laws.

THE DARK KNIGHT
October 12, 2009, 08:52 PM
+1 on calling corporate, they have a whole different mindset than the store manager

When he shoved you, you should have fallen down and yelled in pain for a minute or two, then limped your way out of the store. Then you'd be talkin big bucks.

Arrogant Bastard
October 12, 2009, 09:06 PM
I don't know about LA, but in Texas, if somebody acting with apparent authority for the store (e.g., a manager) asks you to leave for being armed, you must comply -- it doesn't matter what corporate policy is, or whether they had it properly posted.

I would follow up with a letter detailing the incident, and asking what their corporate policy is. Many times I've seen a manager act in complete ignorance of what the store's policy actually was.

gym
October 12, 2009, 09:52 PM
It depends on how angry you are. A police report of the incident would also ruin the guys day. You were manhandled for no legitamate reason, while armed. It surely can't look good for the guy who caused the incident. If the tape backs you up, they will look pretty dumb, and the cops will want to see the tape. They will determine from the tape if you were assaulted.

tpaw
October 12, 2009, 10:07 PM
Herohog writes:

Walk out, conceal, walk back in and they can't legally do squat.Doesn't mean they won't call the cops or hassle you, but by the letter of the law, they have no leg to stand on.

Bad advice. He already knows the store policy and by walking back in again armed and concealed, he is knowingly and intentionally violating the store policy.

FlyinBryan
October 12, 2009, 10:07 PM
A police report of the incident would also ruin the guys day

if i were the o.p., a police report would ruin MY day. so badly in fact i wouldnt even consider it.

also, lol, filing charges for battery or assault is a joke, so stop suggesting it to him. he has already shown enough common sense, not to mention having enough spine, to not consider it.

hes not a 90 year old granny, he is a grown man.

pressing charges for a little assistance to the exit garners the same respect as pouring liquid soap on the floor and faking a slip in hopes of easy money,,,,,,,,none.

the o.p. did everything just about perfect

Kurt_D
October 12, 2009, 10:19 PM
LOL, All you screaming "assault, press charges" are missing that he was ask to leave private property, hadn't left and therefore is guilty of trespassing under LA law. He's best to shut his mouth and not legally press the issue; less he wants to be laughed at and charged with trespassing.

Now, as far as store policy I find it highly unlikely a hourly has any authority to ask anyone to leave. So I would press that issue first. Second, find out what Academy's policy is on people carrying firearms. 99% sure concealed is a-ok in compliance with LA law seeing as they don't post 30-06 signing, open they may very well not allow which is their right just as you have the right not to shop there.

KBT1911
October 12, 2009, 10:42 PM
Welcome to the Hell of OC. It's one reason I quit doing it. I got tired of getting thrown out of places and having the police called on me for noreason.

rbernie
October 12, 2009, 10:49 PM
NOTHING GOOD COMES FROM ACADEMY THREADS!!! WHY ARE HIGHROADERS STILL SHOPPING THERE!!!
Because Academy is actually not a bad store?

I just bought a Remington 870 Express from the folk at one of my local Academy's, and the transaction was flawless. I have three (3) Academy stores within driving distance of my house, and each one is stocked with more gun stuff than many gun stores, and the guys behind the counter actually know something about guns.

In this day and age of sporting goods chains abandoning the shooting sports en masse, I'm all for any store that still openly caters to the gunnie community. It seems awfully foolish to begrudge them a few bad apple employees or store policies that are set by corporate counsel.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Acera
October 12, 2009, 11:13 PM
THE DARK KNIGHT
Arrogant Bastard
gym
tpaw
FlyinBryan
Kurt_D
KBT1911
rbernie

This old thread was resurrected by ccsniper with a completely different beef. It's over 14 months old!!! The old problem has not been discussed in that time.

Read the new post, check the dates, before posting please. It's annoying that ccsniper did not start a new thread, but you guys compound it.

rbernie
October 13, 2009, 12:00 AM
Actually, it was resurrected in two threads today. I elected to let this one go, but thanks for trying to play Junior Moderator anyway.

Acera
October 13, 2009, 12:36 AM
thanks for trying to play Junior Moderator anyway.

sorry rbernie, I am one on another (abet a lot less high road than this one) board, that seems to get in my way on other boards. Just don't let me issue points, LOL.

FlyinBryan
October 13, 2009, 02:28 AM
no acera, i didnt know it was a dead thread or i wouldnt have wasted the 30 seconds, but thx for calling us all out on it.

i love your tact in disclosing the err of our ways, lol.

drjoker
October 13, 2009, 03:00 AM
Guys, it does no good to post on here and cluck like a flock of hens. Let's dump an avalanche of letters on Academy!!! Let's organize open holster protests at Academy!!! The OP needs to tell us who he is so that we'll know who to reference in our letters to Academy. Let's boycott them!

I always buy my guns at local mom and pop shops rather than Academy because of their B.S. corporate policies. Hit them in the wallet and they'll see the light. I've protested against Denny's before due to their past racial profiling. They no longer do that anymore. Let's protest Academy's!

I've written my letter. OP, please tell us who you are so that I can finish the letter and mail it off. I'm waiting.....:fire:

Oops, sorry, I just realized that this is an ancient thread.

ccsniper
October 13, 2009, 03:29 AM
I apologize for resurrecting this thread, I just didn't want to start one when I already found some to vent on.

Mike U.
October 13, 2009, 04:31 AM
zombie thread, forget it.

coloradokevin
October 13, 2009, 04:53 AM
This country is entirely too litigious.

Just don't shop there anymore and inform people why they shouldn't either.
With the huge amount of free webspace and cheap blog space available these days, I'm sure you could get your opinion out there. A Youtube account and a cheap camera are all you need to vent your frustrations to any who will listen.

Agreed! Though, to be fair, I didn't think that the OP was planning to sue or file charges as much as he was planning to complain to corporate management (which isn't a bad idea).

Unfortunately you are entirely correct in saying that we are far too litigious in this society. What happened here was NOT an assault (at least not by CO standards), and would not be worthy of criminal charges, at least not based on what the OP described. It would be nice if these threads could evolve in a manner which would address productive ways to address this issue, rather than just seeing a bunch of folks scream to "have him arrested", or "sue them!"



In case anyone would like to see the relevant portion of Colorado's law for this type of offense, here you go:

18-3-204. Assault in the third degree.

(1) A person commits the crime of assault in the third degree if:

(a) The person knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another person or with criminal negligence the person causes bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon ...


Also, to be entirely fair, there are always two sides to every story. While I don't have any reason to doubt the OP's version, I also haven't even been given an opportunity to hear the store's version of this incident! Regardless, lawsuits and police calls won't change the way society views guns... I think we might need to think a bit further outside of the box on this one!

Bailey Boat
October 13, 2009, 07:52 AM
"Get a gift certificate".... "get a new gun"...... Damned, how cheaply can some people be purchased out of their beliefs and rights?????

noskilz
October 13, 2009, 10:10 AM
Jeez, guys, let this Dead Thread Die! :banghead:

Acera
October 13, 2009, 11:07 AM
You guys still don't get it, LOL.


FlyinBryan if you liked my post as it is now, you should have read it before the mod. edited it down to a tamer level, you would really have gotten a kick out of it then.

joe_security
October 13, 2009, 03:37 PM
A police report would have been a good thing to do...the clerk maybe a bully with a history of this type of activity. Document it !

Blue Brick
October 13, 2009, 03:39 PM
I went to Bass Pro Shop here in Arizona and I always open carry. The greeter observed my gun and said that all guns that enter the store are required to have a trigger lock and that she would have to put a trigger lock on my gun. I told her there would be no putting a lock on my gun period, and I continued walk into the store, no one said anything else about it.

gyvel
October 13, 2009, 04:17 PM
Keep in mind that unless you have witnesses, who will testify, that he pushed you, you won't get too far with charges or a lawsuit. I could almost guarantee you that he'll have 2 or 3 witnesses who'll swear that they never saw him make physical contact with you.

Scissors beats paper, paper beats rock, security camera beats witness.

SSN Vet
October 13, 2009, 11:08 PM
if they told you that you had to leave....

why were you still standing there talking to them..

good luck finding a lawyer who will take this case on a percentage basis....

I'm not saying the guy was right to touch you...

but were you right to stand around and debate after they told you that you had to leave the store?

And why have you patronized them with five fire arms purchases, when everyone and their dead uncle knows that Acadamy is an anti corporation making money by selling firearms to the starving masses "on their terms".

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