[GhostShooter]

I have a question for all you legal types out there. If you get mugged and file a report but no mugger is ever arrested. Legally did this event take place whereas you could use it as evidence in another court case.

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[JimP]

Legally did it ever happen?? Of course, Just like how you can convict someone of murder and never find a body. It is a question of evidence. Now, can you use it in another case?? need more details, again it is an evidentiary issue: was the incident particular in a certain manner in that it can be called a "habitualized response to a particular circumstance" (evidence of habit); or a pattern of violence of a sufficient MO that can get over an uncharged misconduct objection. Also, would need to determine if the "other case" was in the criminal or civil realm. Need more details than what you stated. Need particularized guarantees of trustworthiness. Is it in a firmly rooted hearsay objection or must we look elsewhere to determine veracity? Sounds like greek but the best I can do on what you gave.

Similar to trying to "prove-up" a verbal contract. Contract may be very legal but proving it in court may be difficult.

[Blackhawk]

To be admissible, evidence has to be relevant and credible. If you get an authenticated copy of a police report, it's credible, but whether it's relevant in a different case is another matter entirely.

[GhostShooter]

Ok the question was in reference to starting another lawsuit against the unconstitutional concealed carry laws in Ohio (a bunch of us got together at dinner and were throwing around ideas). If you have someone who was mugged but no conviction was made could you use that to give you legal standing (denial of CCW had a serious detrimental affect) to challenge the laws?

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...Edited to add...
I realize that saying if you had a CCW you could have prevent the crime is like going from A-C you're skipping the step where you have to prove that but I was just wondering if you could use the incident at all.

[Hkmp5sd]

Yes, it would still be applicable. The crime was reported and filed and would show up on the National Criminal Justice Statistics report.

[Ledbetter]

I actually am a lawyer.

A basic: you don't "present" facts to the court, you present "evidence." Evidence of your mugging includes your testimony, which is corroborated by any written report filed by the police or with your insurance company or, if you were injured, a doctor's report. Also any witnesses to the mugging or that observed your injuries.

You then argue that this evidence establishes a "fact" upon which the court should make a "finding."

As in, "Based upon the evidence, the court finds that the plaintiff was the victim of a mugging at such and such location on January 14, 2003, at 10 A.M."

[JimP]

I just re-read my post from last night (I am on leave from Korea right now and should have laid off the Fat Tire Ale...), the issue with suing the Gub'mint is one of sovereign immunity. "Can't sue the King". So I don't see how you getting mugged and their failure to issue you a CCW are legally related. Can't prove a negative - I.E.: If you had your CCW you would NOT have been mugged. Too tentative.

Vote the freaks out of office and change the legislature.

[Blackhawk]

The police report would be relevant in that case to support your claim that you were mugged. So what? Were you injured, and how does the mugging relate to your claim that the law impeded your ability to protect yourself?

Standing is really up to the judge. On the surface, the fact of the mugging would help to negate a notion that the suit was frivilous. It sounds somewhat analogous to a missing stop sign. "If a stop sign had been at that intersection as the city was obligated to put it there by its own ordinance, the wreck most probably would not have happened, so my claim for damages should be upheld."

Since governments respond to the people better than to courts, which are supposedly bound by the law, your effort might better be aimed at getting a legislative pooh-bah on board to craft and present legislation inspired by your scenario. A lawsuit requires a responsible party, and I don't think that's the way to go for this.

MHO, and it is subject to revision, of course.... :D

[El Tejon]

Ghost, it depends.

Where and how do you want to use it? Dissolution, civil suit, criminal prosecution, admin hearing? How?

[GhostShooter]

Ok, first I wasn't mugged. We were just trying to come up with situations where we would have legal standing. I was told by a lawyer that the best route to go would be a civil suit to stop enforcement of the law. The thinking was that a hypothetical mugged person would have legal standing to possibly challenge the law.

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[El Tejon]

Ghost, "stop enforcement" of what law?:confused: You mean report a crime that did not transpire or have reason to believe transpired and expose oneself to criminal prosecution for False Informing and Obstruction of Justice? Yikes.:eek:

[Ledbetter]

I assume Ghostshooter's question is aimed at getting into court to compel the issuance of a CCW license or to ask the court to overturn the law as an unconstitutional infringement.

Not saying I agree with that course of action.

[GhostShooter]

Hold up a second guys, I just said we were throwing around ideas of ways that a person could challenge the CCW law in Ohio. I NEVER said anything about fraud. Just tossing out ideas.

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[El Tejon]

Why not just do what the defendants in Griswold did?

[GhostShooter]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the Griswold case?

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