[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

It's a pump shotgun. But in .22 cal.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/rimfire_rifles/model_572_fieldmaster_specs.asp

My buddy says it's not gonna be useful for anything, and probably a waste of money. But I want it fairly badly - I love shotguns and have a soft spot for unusual shotguns (I have a Gamo Air Shotgun .22 cal, so this would go right along with).

Can you guys see any use for this? I'm thinking squirrels around the house - they dig holes in my hard (burying pecans), and get into my attic.

Talk me into or out of getting this. I always worry that a unique model like this will go the way of the dodo after a year or two, and then get real expensive on the used market. Marlin had a "garden gun" a few years back - turnbolt I think - but it was in .22 mag, not .22lr like this one.

How quiet would this gun be, do you think? I do have neighbors not too far off, and if I actually went to hunting grounds, I'd just take a .410 or 20 ga, so the gun's use would be limited to the homestead here.

[gp911]

I doubt it'll take out a squirrel, not humanely, unless it's really close, like charging at you with a broken bottle...

I'd get one if it were really cheap just for the novelty of it. You could use it to kill those rogue bumblebees terrorizing your yard, or to administer the coup de grace on that mole your cat refuses to stop batting around the doorstep.

If the price is right buy it. I went the other direction and bought a 10 gauge I didn't need just to scratch the itch. Now I've scratched it and I'm selling the gun to my brother. Worst case scenario you buy it, decide the Gamo works just as well, and resell it on here having lost a few bucks to experience. No big whoop, really.

In other words, JUMP! :D

gp911

[mtngunr]

Since I own an original from 20+ years ago, talking you out of one will be easy...firstly, the gun is designed for crimped-brass shotshells, NOT the CCI capsule shotloads...the capsule shotloads are made for rifled guns, and using the capsules is equiv to frangible .22LR out of the smoothbore...

Secondly, the barrel is basically a .410 with a solid chamber sized for the .22 crimped shotshells, only loaded by Federal, currently, I believe...to be fair, my local dealer sells me the Federal shells for about what .410 sells for, twice as many shots with the .22.

With #12 shot, it's great for carpenter bees.....that's about all I can think of...25grs/#12 shot....the carpenter bees are a real threat to old houses around here, so the gun has uses....

You can buy a Mossberg .410 pump shotgun with 24" Full, or 22" Mod choke with available ammo ranging from #6-#9 (locally, anyhow), the Mossberg about the same length/weight as the 572, only the 4+1rd capacity lacking compared to the .22....the Mossbergs cost half the Remington...

It's not far behind the .410 in noise, FYI...suprisingly obnoxious...however, the pellets aren't quite as destructive to your roof as a .410...notice, "not QUITE"....

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Firstly, the gun is designed for crimped-brass shotshells, NOT the CCI capsule shotloads...the capsule shotloads are made for rifled guns, and using the capsules is equiv to frangible .22LR out of the smoothbore...

Ahhhh, thanks, I think I'll pass. As far as I know, the CCI shells are the only ones available nowadays..... you say Federal makes the crimped brass .22 shotshell rounds?

No, I don't have a carpenter bee or bumble bee invasion... :)

[mtngunr]

Yep, under the Game-Shok label....50rds/$7.25 last I bought...good for garden pests such as voles, moles, close-range birds, etc., also....CLOSE range.....no kidding, the Mossberg 505 youth model in .410 is smaller, much more versatile, half the cost...I imagine the 572 will go away.....again....and for the same reason...common sense, and regretted by only a few farmers/gardeners worried about collateral damage....

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Quick follow up: mntgnr, in your experience, do the CCI shotshells in .22lr and .22 mag, with the capsules, produce good patterns from rifled barrels? Or do the patterns have a hole in the middle?

[ArmedBear]

It might be great for soda cracker shooting, though.:)

[VA27]

Winchester still makes the crimped 22 shotshell, I bought some a coupla weeks ago.

It would be great for the late summer grasshopper invasion and dragonflys are a challenge.

Fun back yard skeet shooting with asprin tablets, too.

[publiuss]

I would buy it if it's cheap. Never know when you might find a standard rifled barrel for it at the gunshow. It's a neat novelty but .22 ratshot is totally useless. I have a standard 572 and love it.

[AaronE]

I have the early version, bolt action...it works best with teh crimped shotshells, which Winchester still markets, I use mine mostly for shooing off dogs doing their business in my yard or dispatching the "toys" that the cats have brought proudly home to show me that they are paying the rent. biggest problem is the SMALL shot...tho the CCI capsule works more like a glaser safety slug out of mine.

[mtngunr]

My experience is that capsule shotloads are close-range only....a .410 is a 15-30 YARD gun, while shotloads in rifled barrels are measured in FEET....the exception might be the RCBS .45ACP shot dies for cut 7.62MM brass, them reportedly giving 128 #9 pellets at 1200fps and 70% patterns in a 15" circle at 25ft, good for rabbit to 30ft....

[mtngunr]

I would buy it if it's cheap.

These are $400-$500 guns, generally.

[Tom Held]

I found a spring loaded clay target thrower that was designed for the 22 smoothbore a few years ago. Targets are about the size of a silver dollar. It's a real challenge but a hoot to shoot. These are fun little guns. But it will sting the crap out of neighborhood cats that like to sit under my feeders and catch birds. Tom

[Beagle-zebub]

The guru at the range I shot skeet at had one of these, and it was effing cool. It didn't sound loud enough to warrant plugs, although they couldn't hurt. He taught his daughters to shoot bumble bees with it.

The new ones are fairly overpriced, but the used market has to have plenty of them, and Savage now produces a cheap bolt-action single-shot.

[PTK]

The real issue with wanting a gun because you want it is that no matter how silly it is, or how bad the reviews are, you'll still want it.

It's how I ended up ordering a MAC11/9mm clone the other day. :)

[Red Tornado]

I picked up some crimed Federal at Wal-Mart a few weeks ago, so it's available. I use it for snakes, but I'm usually within a few feet. I wouldn't trust it much farther. I also load up for wood bees at the range. They like to bore into the shooting benches....surprisingly enough, that really doesn't add to the range experience.

About the 572, they're cool, but I just use a Rem 510 for my snake shot needs. Get a normal 572 and you can always go to regular ammo, or use the shot shells. Of course, PTK makes a great point. :D
RT

[JNewell]

Nah, go ahead.

I think we should have an "esoteric smoothbores" club.

I will be a charter member as owner of an M6, a Camper and (half credit) a 9410 Packer. :neener:

[mtngunr]

Hmmm....I have an M6 .22/.410, a SuperComanche .410/.45 pistol (that hammers stuff at 30yds with .410), an Ishapore No1/MkIII (made in 1912, converted to British .303/.410 in 1932, sporterized shortly thereafter, imported here and rechambered to .410, and shoots very nice Cyl patterns and is a slug-shooter supreme), Winchester 37 .410, the Mossberg 505 .410 pump, the 572 smoothbore...probably a few other oddballs have slipped my mind....

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

....I have an M6 .22/.410, a SuperComanche .410/.45 pistol (that hammers stuff at 30yds with .410), an Ishapore No1/MkIII (made in 1912, converted to British .303/.410 in 1932, sporterized shortly thereafter, imported here and rechambered to .410, and shoots very nice Cyl patterns and is a slug-shooter supreme), Winchester 37 .410, the Mossberg 505 .410 pump, the 572 smoothbore...probably a few other oddballs have slipped my mind....

Jiminy christmas! - Wow, you really are crazy, mtngunr. :) :p I'm a bit intrigued by shotguns of all types too. I've got that air shotgun, a taurus judge, 4 combo rifle/shotguns, and shotshell ammo in .45 colt, .22lr, and .22 mag.

But really mtngunr, I was hoping you could definitively answer my question, if you've ever tested it thoroughly, as you may have - do the CCI capsule shotshells from a rifled .22lr bbl produce a nice shot pattern, or is it a donut? I need to just go test them - I've got some...

Because I can still see a possible use for the garden gun if the CCIs will donut. Particularly if you want to shoot aspirin out of the air with your ".22" to show what a crack shot you are. But more practically, I can see it (with the Federal or Winchester brass rounds) for short range grackles, starlings, etc., without much collateral damage - say, out to 15 yards. I can agree with you mtngnr that it may be too little for humanely shooting squirrels - they are tough! But grackles & starlings are a different story -soft targets.

P.S. Do NOT try .45 acp CCI shotshell ammo from a .45 acp revolver - The funky "shouldered" rounds will bind up your gun! BTDT. From a semi-auto, they're fine, though they may or may not cycle the gun.

Nah, go ahead.

I think we should have an "esoteric smoothbores" club.

I will be a charter member as owner of an M6, a Camper and (half credit) a 9410 Packer.

JNewell, sounds good :) - But could you explain those three? I thought a CZ/Springfield M6 has a rifled .22 bbl? You must mean the .410.... What's a Camper? Oh, the 9410 - that's the Winchester lever .410 right? Forgot about that one - ha, those are cool!

My oddest "shotgun", other than the Gamo air shotgun, is the NEF/H&R Survivor with a 20" .45 colt rifled barrel, but a chamber that accepts .410 shells, and a screw-in (so-called) "choke" thing with "stright rifling" which is supposed to "un-spin" the shot. I've shot it but not at paper so I couldn't tell you how it patterns.

The real issue with wanting a gun because you want it is that no matter how silly it is, or how bad the reviews are, you'll still want it.

It's how I ended up ordering a MAC11/9mm clone the other day

You got that straight, brutha! :)

[mtngunr]

I've never patterned the shotshells except at 5yds or so to insure pest shredding at walk-up distance, which they do....the shot is fine enough it's not a clean kill on larger poisonous snakes I've terminated in my yard, lots of flopping around at the shot, whereas the .410 blows them in half....longer range testing on targets of opportunity such as drink cans shows very few hits, and lack of penetration of both sides of the can...

The cheap SuperComanche .410/.45 singleshot is deadly to 30yds, the Judge is deadly to 10ft....

The M6 is/was a combo, .22Hornet or LR over .410....

Savage M24C combo gun...."Camper"....buttstock shell stowage, buttstock trapdoor frequently breaks....still a neat gun...

[conwict]

I have heard, about the CCI shotshells, that they actually work better out of a really dirty rifle that is nearly smooth...

And also that they pattern better out of pistols, period.

Dunno, I've only shot them (with fairly mediocre results) out of a rifle.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Can you describe your mediocre results in a little more detail plz conwict? Thanks.

[Sistema1927]

I have a Rufus Hummingbird who keeps all the other hummers away from the feeders......


(Just kidding, don't anyone go reporting me for shooting hummingbirds.)

[conwict]

Oh, well, I was shooting from a Remington 514 single shot bolt 22.

The results echo what others said: somewhat donut-shaped pattern, extremely poor range (10 feet would really be pushing it), and limited or nonexistent application (I shot some bees with it after I figured out it wouldn't be good for anything else).

[Gordon]

I use an old Winchester ,22 mag pump with CCI #11 shotshells alot off my deck. It rolls rats and ground squirrels to 40 feet no problem. Of course somebody bored out a foot of the barrel to 5/16" for 6 inches then 6" of 3/8" . It throws 14" patterns at 30" that are not donuts. >22 mag rifles with shot are less than half as loud as a .410 BTW>
I use .22lr shot in my 2" S&W kit gun for rats I see while I'm feeding chickens ect. Works to about 20 feet on rats.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I use an old Winchester ,22 mag pump with CCI #11 shotshells alot off my deck. It rolls rats and ground squirrels to 40 feet no problem. Of course somebody bored out a foot of the barrel to 5/16" for 6 inches then 6" of 3/8" . It throws 14" patterns at 30" that are not donuts. >22 mag rifles with shot are less than half as loud as a .410 BTW>
I use .22lr shot in my 2" S&W kit gun for rats I see while I'm feeding chickens ect. Works to about 20 feet on rats.

Now that's good information - what I was looking for. Hmmm, maybe the ticket is to find a rusty old .22 magnum for dirt cheap, then just have a machine shop run a drill press down the barrel a ways like you describe, opening it up and smoothing it out.

[JNewell]

JNewell, sounds good - But could you explain those three? I thought a CZ/Springfield M6 has a rifled .22 bbl? You must mean the .410.... What's a Camper? Oh, the 9410 - that's the Winchester lever .410 right? Forgot about that one - ha, those are cool!

Yes, was referring to the bottom tube on the M6. The Camper is the Savage .22LR/20ga "Camper" model with shorter barrels. Great article here: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/1

[Gordon]

Yeah before I found this weird Win Mag pump I looked for years for a Marlin 25G garden gun. The .22lr Rutledge(bored out) smooth bores rifles don't work well over about 30 feet. The Magnum with the #11 shot works out to about 50 feet max on rodents. Both are very quiet.
I would like a good 9mm Garden gun too, I've heard them fired and they are much louder than a .22mag rifle with shot but a lot less than a .410 which cracks as well as a 20 gauge IMHO.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Think I found a solution which is just as good, and a lot cheaper. Look:

http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm

They have adapters in which you can shoot .22lr, .22mag, and other rounds, in various larger chambers, and specifically, they have two chamber adapters for .22lr shotshells - for the .45 colt and .410 shot. Think I'll get the .410 one and try it out.

[Loomis]

That would probably only be good for small, slow moving vermin that you can get close enough to to hit them with a slingshot.

rats
snakes
feral cats
voles
That's about it.