Penn Security Bank and Trust Company, Scranton PA


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bogie
August 4, 2008, 02:51 PM
We've got over 70,000 members here. We can make a difference. Unless you're one of the people who doesn't do anything. If so, please abstain from encouraging others to also avoid doing anything. This obviously isn't your fight.

A fair number of you probably live in the Scranton area.

You need to let the bank's officials know how you feel about this insulting and dangerous sign. If you are a customer of the bank, you need to move your business to a different one. Yeah, it'll suck, but you'll be happier and safer.

THR has done stuff like this in the past, but not successfully as of late. Can we do it again? It's up to you.

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jahwarrior
August 4, 2008, 03:25 PM
i'd like to personally thank everyone who gets involved with this, in advance. i already contacted my family members who have accounts there, and they all (all 5 of them) have agreed to close their accounts there. some of my friends are willing to do so, as well. i've been on the phone with the bank a few times today; they themselves are still trying to figure out what the hell's going on.

Robby
August 4, 2008, 03:51 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=382274

Well we know the answer on this earlier thread then. Seems like they decided to ban weapons from their banks. Glad I am in KY, but you got my support.

kevindsingleton
August 4, 2008, 03:53 PM
As I already posted in the other related thread, a sign in the window has no force of law in Pennsylvania. As long as you keep your piece concealed, there's nothing they can do. If they discover you carrying on their property, their sole remedy is to request that you immediately leave. If you refuse to leave, you can be charged with trespass.

Make as big a deal of it as you like. I hope you can win them over to our side. In the meantime, how about finding an e-mail address so that we can flood a manager's e-mail box with advice about doing business with Pennsylvanians in Pennsylvania?

jahwarrior
August 4, 2008, 04:05 PM
Main Office: 150 N. Washington Ave., Scranton, PA 18503
Toll-free: 1.800.327.0394 / 1.570.346.7741
www.pennsecurity.com

CENTRAL CITY OFFICE
Carl Baruffaldi, Mgr.
150 North Washington Ave.
Scranton, PA 18503
(570) 346-7741
800-327-0394



SOUTH SIDE OFFICE
Avandra McMillan, Mgr.
526 Cedar Avenue
Scranton, PA 18505
(570) 343-1151



EAST SCRANTON OFFICE
Frank Gardner, Mgr.
Prescott Ave. & Ash St.
Scranton, PA 18510
(570) 342-9101



NORTH POCONO OFFICE
Pam Edwards, Mgr.
Main & Academy St.
Moscow, PA 18444
(570) 842-7626




MOUNT POCONO OFFICE
Susan Kopp, Mgr.
406 Pocono Blvd.
Mount Pocono, PA 18344
(570) 839-8732



ABINGTON OFFICE
Susan Holweg, Mgr.
1100 Northern Blvd.
Clarks Summit, PA 18411
(570) 587-4898

GREEN RIDGE OFFICE
Dominic Gianuzzi, Mgr.
E. Market St. & Sanderson Ave.
Scranton, PA 18509
(570) 346-4695


GOULDSBORO OFFICE
Robin Jenkins, Mgr.
Main & Second Sts.
Gouldsboro, PA 18424
(570) 842-6473

EAST STROUDSBURG OFFICE
Marisol Lopez, Mgr.
705 Milford Road
East Stroudsburg, PA 18301
(570) 420-0432

Thernlund
August 4, 2008, 04:29 PM
Maybe I'll open an account so I can cite this policy as my reason for closing it.

"Yeah, I opened this account but found out about your policy on legally carried self-defense weapons. This policy is unconscionable. Please close my account at once."


-T.

Solo Flyer
August 4, 2008, 04:29 PM
One of my best friend's is from Dunmore,just outside Scranton.
The rest of his extended family still lives there.
He could not believe this sign when I emailed him a short time ago.He's already called his sis and brother who bank there to take action ASAP.
This guy spent 2 tours in 'Nam and things like this disturb him greatly.
We are both sending messages to the bank and the Realty Company about this outrageous sign's language.
Thank you ,bogie ,for the post and jahwarrior for the address.

Standing Wolf
August 4, 2008, 05:10 PM
I never do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.

damien
August 4, 2008, 05:19 PM
As I already posted in the other related thread, a sign in the window has no force of law in Pennsylvania. As long as you keep your piece concealed, there's nothing they can do. If they discover you carrying on their property, their sole remedy is to request that you immediately leave. If you refuse to leave, you can be charged with trespass.

If this is the case then you can openly carry there also, until they ask you to leave. I wonder if the front-line workers and even the managers care enough to enforce the policy. It would be easy enough to find out.

jahwarrior
August 5, 2008, 09:48 AM
bump

Drgong
August 5, 2008, 09:59 AM
I would help, but I am in NC.

Have you posted this at opencarry.org?

jahwarrior
August 5, 2008, 10:05 AM
yes i have!

XDGirl
August 5, 2008, 11:26 AM
I would love to help, but I am in TN :(

wagoneer1019
August 5, 2008, 12:19 PM
the guy just hung up on me!!! I asked the personal guy why had he said it was making customers unconfertable. I said "how, where they waving them around." "he said no. people would see them and get scared and think the bank is going to get robbed." I asked "have you ever been robbed" kinda reporter like. he said yes. I asked" how did the robbers present there guns?" he said some where concealed, some where in envalopes some where in bags...." I then asked "have you ever been robbed when the guy who walked in had is gun resting in a holster?" he hesateed a secend and sand said"...uh I never was there so I don't know" I said "you have customers, business owners who make $10,000 cash deposits. would you feel safe walking around with $10,000 cash on you?" he said "no" I asked " how would you protect your self?" he said..this is the kicker.. "I would carry a hand gun" I then said "but, you wouldn't be welcome in your bank and you are telling your customers are not welcome either..." I hear a long pause and then the ever-familer "click"

bogie
August 5, 2008, 02:23 PM
Remember that it isn't about whether or not the sign is "legal" or has a force of law behind it.

Even if you can walk right past it carrying a Barrett .50 with no consequences, it is still insulting, and reinforces the "guns are bad" message to large parts of the fence-sitting population.

chris in va
August 5, 2008, 02:34 PM
That's too bad. Why such a huge sign? Good grief.

Wachovia here has a tiny micro picture of a revolver with a line through it. Probably about an inch across. Doesn't deter me, and certainly wouldn't deter a robber.

Sometimes I think banks consider a robbery is something they can control. Provided other customers don't get involved, the BG simply threatens the teller, they hand over the cash, and he walks out.

But often times that's not the case. The BG decides a few people have to get shot in the process.

I dunno, hopefully you guys can put some pressure on corporate over this. Simply withdrawing accounts from the bank won't do it.

230RN
August 5, 2008, 02:58 PM
Pull your accounts.

Judging by the apparent tone of the partly obscured no-smoking sign, this manager is one heck of an aggressively self-righteous individual.

Pull your accounts.

By the way, wasn't there a problem a year or two ago with the real estate company they seem to be affiliated with? Pensco Realty? Seems like a familar name to me but I'm not sure, so don't accuse me of slander.

Maybe it was on packing.org, now defunct, that I read something about it.

Incidentally, I walked into a Mom & Pop gun shop today (no prohibited sign) and while discussing something about Kel-Tecs I asked if I could examine the gun to verify something --could I take it out of my pocket?

Response: "No problem. We won't even let you in here if you don't have a gun on you."

Joking, of course, but it made my heart soar like an eagle.

I forgot to mention that you should pull your accounts. Whether they change policy because of it or not, I would refuse to knowingly support such a business.

C&R
August 5, 2008, 04:31 PM
I spoke with security. It appears form our discussion that they had two (several?) customers that left their establishment due to feeling uncomfortable with open carry. As described to me in one incident the individual that was open carrying was wearing sunglasses, in a t-shirt that was bloused over the firearm, and carrying a gym bag.

I wonder why they don’t restrict bringing in bags and sunglasses, hats, etc in to there establishments? It would make me feel a lot better if I could see everyone’s hands, heads and eyes! :banghead:

jagugator
August 5, 2008, 04:43 PM
What we need are a couple of account holders that have 7/8 figure accounts to walk in and demand the sign be taken down.

That kind of money walking out the door all in one shot will get the attention of the bank President.

Or, Organize all the members that are going to close thier accounts do it on the same day (probably pretty tough to organize).

Good Luck!

fspitzdorf
August 5, 2008, 04:48 PM
I make it a habit of NOT entering establishments that leave me unarmed and vulnerable to the criminal populous at large... I wish all Pennsylvanians much success in this fight.

bleachcola
August 5, 2008, 07:36 PM
An acronym referring to the offspring of female dogs occurs to me.

P.U.P.P.I.E.S. ?

230RN
August 5, 2008, 10:33 PM
^ No. Matter of fact I just came back on to delete that remark since it's not too HR.

My comments about aggressive self-righteousness will suffice without additional comment.

Again incidentally, I read about a year ago that there were 600,000 CCW permitees in Pennsylvania. If my memory is indeed correct, that might be one heck of a big clout.

bleachcola
August 5, 2008, 10:39 PM
I'm fine with it. Walking the high road doesn't necessarily mean you have to hide your emotions, just control them. Of course that's just my personal interpretation.

bsf
August 6, 2008, 01:47 AM
the guy just hung up on me!!! I asked the personal guy why had he said it was making customers unconfertable. I said "how, where they waving them around." "he said no. people would see them and get scared and think the bank is going to get robbed." I asked "have you ever been robbed" kinda reporter like. he said yes. I asked" how did the robbers present there guns?" he said some where concealed, some where in envalopes some where in bags...." I then asked "have you ever been robbed when the guy who walked in had is gun resting in a holster?" he hesateed a secend and sand said"...uh I never was there so I don't know" I said "you have customers, business owners who make $10,000 cash deposits. would you feel safe walking around with $10,000 cash on you?" he said "no" I asked " how would you protect your self?" he said..this is the kicker.. "I would carry a hand gun" I then said "but, you wouldn't be welcome in your bank and you are telling your customers are not welcome either..." I hear a long pause and then the ever-familer "click"

Spoke with security

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I spoke with security. It appears form our discussion that they had two (several?) customers that left their establishment due to feeling uncomfortable with open carry. As described to me in one incident the individual that was open carrying was wearing sunglasses, in a t-shirt that was bloused over the firearm, and carrying a gym bag. I wonder why they don’t restrict bringing in bags and sunglasses, hats, etc in to there establishments? It would make me feel a lot better if I could see everyone’s hands, heads and eyes!

I do not want to derail this thread. That is not my attempt w/ this post. Consider this an opportunity to improve your argument.

Are you guys willing to address concerns of Penn Security Bank and Trust Company over potential loss of revenue by people OC’ers scare off? If so, does your response go beyond the simple “Remove the sign or I will not do business with you anymore. Choose which customers you want”?

Armueller2001
August 6, 2008, 02:59 AM
Found the central bank manager's email...

C.Baruffaldi@pennsecurity.com

Sent this to them, although I don't live in PA, they don't need to know that.

Hi, I'm a new Scranton resident and I stopped by your location to open a new account when I saw the sign on the door, notifying me that my civil rights (2nd amendment) were not welcome there. I own non-resident Florida permit that legally allows me to carry a concealed firearm in 28 states, including Pennsylvania. To obtain that permit, I took a firearm training class, had fingerprints taken, and had an FBI background check/mental health history check. I can defend myself and my family virtually everywhere else, but your bank does not trust me to do the same in your facility. A sign on the front door is not going to stop someone who is intent on causing harm or robbing your bank. Such signs and policies only disarm the law abiding citizens who have gone through the time and effort to obtain legal means of self-defense. The people who rob banks are not concealed carry permit holders, in fact, a majority of them are repeat felons who are not even legally allowed to OWN their guns, much less carry them. I'm assuming you haven't heard many stories like this one, when law-abiding citizens are a benefit to businesses such as yours --> link (http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=E925C716-8B79-4BAA-9D9B-72FFD8CBEBEE&gsa=true)

I am at a total disagreement with your ban on self defense, and will be opening a business account at one of your competitor's banks.

Thank you for your time, and have a great day

bogie
August 6, 2008, 03:21 AM
The task at hand is to both educate, and to make it a public relations nightmare...

"The bank does not allow legally armed people who are making large cash deposits inside."

Step two, campers: I don't live in Scranton, and I don't know beans about the area. We need web sites, e-mail and phone numbers for the local media. Newspapers, networks, news radio stations, and even counter-culture stuff if it's there.

Kragax
August 6, 2008, 06:38 AM
Im new here and wanted to chime in. Im originally from Pa. and now live just across the line in NY and am licensed to carry in both states. In the area of Pa. that I travel in I have never seen such a thing! In NY my bank has a sign asking you to remove your sunglasses or motorcycle helmet but your allowed to carry. The sunglass thing is so the camera can record your image. I wear prescription sunglasses and have never been asked to remove them either. I would love to help you if there is a way for a NY resident to do so.

bsf
August 6, 2008, 09:42 AM
Armueller2001
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-18-08
Location: Illinois
Posts: 124


Found the central bank manager's email...

C.Baruffaldi@pennsecurity.com

Sent this to them, although I don't live in PA, they don't need to know that.

Hi, I'm a new Scranton resident and I stopped by your location to open a new account when I saw the sign on the door, notifying me that my civil rights (2nd amendment) were not welcome there. I own non-resident Florida permit that legally allows me to carry a concealed firearm in 28 states, including Pennsylvania. To obtain that permit, I took a firearm training class, had fingerprints taken, and had an FBI background check/mental health history check. I can defend myself and my family virtually everywhere else, but your bank does not trust me to do the same in your facility. A sign on the front door is not going to stop someone who is intent on causing harm or robbing your bank. Such signs and policies only disarm the law abiding citizens who have gone through the time and effort to obtain legal means of self-defense. The people who rob banks are not concealed carry permit holders, in fact, a majority of them are repeat felons who are not even legally allowed to OWN their guns, much less carry them. I'm assuming you haven't heard many stories like this one, when law-abiding citizens are a benefit to businesses such as yours --> link

I am at a total disagreement with your ban on self defense, and will be opening a business account at one of your competitor's banks.

Thank you for your time, and have a great day

I checked; there is no Scranton in Illinois. Lying is not High Road. I appreciate the effort these other individuals put forth to educate people and push business to modify silly policy. I do not feel your dishonesty maintains the integrity of this effort.

JPolito830
August 6, 2008, 09:56 AM
I have family in Scranton...is this the bank near the court house? I will give them a call either way!

FCFC
August 6, 2008, 10:04 AM
I checked; there is no Scranton in Illinois. Lying is not High Road... I do not feel your dishonesty maintains the integrity of this effort.

Unless, I'm reading it wrong, he does seem to admit that he is lying:

Found the central bank manager's email...

C.Baruffaldi@pennsecurity.com

Sent this to them, although I don't live in PA, they don't need to know that.


Lying, besides being anti-High Road, kind of, um, destroys one's credibility.

And reflects negatively on those associated with the person lying if their affiliation is for a common cause or POV. Is it fair for Mr. Baruffaldi or others opposing gun rights to tie lying and pro-gun rights complainants together when discovering the truth about such e-mails?

Probably not. But I can see how it would happen.

Drgong
August 6, 2008, 10:08 AM
yep, as it been metioned, I would love to help, but this bank is not around here.

bogie
August 6, 2008, 10:21 AM
Doesn't mean you can't call,and tell them that you're going to tell your relatives in PA about their actions.

And it's time to call the media too...

And now someone will post with another reason not to call...

jahwarrior
August 6, 2008, 11:18 AM
local news stations:

http://www.wnep.com/

http://pahomepage.com/content/about/wyou_interactive

local news paper:

http://pahomepage.com/content/about/wyou_interactive

Drgong
August 6, 2008, 02:06 PM
Going to Mail this out tomorrow or Friday when I get the chance.

Dear Sirs,
I was born in the great state of Pennsylvania and while I do not live in the state, I have many family members in Pennsylvania. As my mother was from a "small" catholic family of seven, all of whom have large families. It has come to my attention that recently you have started a policy that citizens who lawfully carry self-defense weapons as proscribed by law are no longer welcome in your bank. It is unfortunate that this policy is in place, as if someone wanted to rob your bank, a sign will not cause them to stop, but it WILL prevent law-abiding citizens from being able to defend themselves. I am glad that I did not make the choice that will cause someone to be hurt or killed when your policy made them unable to defend themselves, however I will pass this on to the many family members I have in the Keystone State to switch banks and not to open accounts with your bank.

Owen Sparks
August 6, 2008, 02:23 PM
This is really a private property issue. The bank can make any rules that they want on BANK PROPERTY. The only absolute right you have there is the right to leave. The bank is perfectly within its rights to prohibit ANYTHING that they don't want in their bank.

That being said, YOU are perfectly within your rights not to do business with this bank, to persuade others not to and to let the bank know all about it. If enough people began to withdraw large enough accounts the bank will reconsider the rule.

Just don't get the government involved!

bleachcola
August 6, 2008, 02:26 PM
Owen does have a good point that gun folks typically ignore with a double standard. You want people to respect your private rights yet you don't care about the private rights of others. Can't have it both ways. A business owner can trespass anyone they want. It's their right. If you don't like it, take your business elsewhere and let them know why.

DrewH
August 6, 2008, 02:33 PM
Nobody is asking the government to intervene, they are asking this bank to change its policies and generally stating they will stop being customers if they don't, in accordance with the OP's request. The Bank can have this policy, we can ask them to change it because we think it is foolish. No double standard.

bleachcola
August 6, 2008, 02:42 PM
My words were more in response to those who feel this is some sort of travesty that has to change no matter what. I feel it is best to do what most people will and just leave and say why. Constantly harping the management to change their personal views seems off. Would you like the Brady Campaign to call your house and email you all day? Different people have different beliefs. That's what America is all about. If someone want to have an opposing viewpoint then that is their right.

MDW GUNS
August 6, 2008, 02:53 PM
Is there a better invitation for criminals??
I would like to ask this banks insurance company if they charge a higher rate, since they put themselves at a higher risk!
My bank by the way has a sign not to wear sunglasses and hats.
Now while I still wear my hat and sunglasses (they know me anyway) at least the sign states “please” and I can live with this policy.
It is understandable.
I take my gun everywhere. If I had an account at this bank, I would call them and close my account and I would not accept any checks from this bank and that would be it.
By the way, does this bank have any branches in a mall or shopping center??

bogie
August 6, 2008, 03:20 PM
It's not about "private property rights."

It's about them posting an insulting sign. Would you be talking about private property rights if it was a billboard?

Why is it every time we start talking about trying to DO SOMETHING about these signs, someone starts jabbering about "property rights?"

We want to change their policy. We want to change their minds.

It's -real- easy to just do nothing.

It's -real- easy to encourage others to do nothing.

Do something.

bleachcola
August 6, 2008, 03:28 PM
If you remove your money and let them know why then you are doing something. If you constantly hassle them, then you are just being annoying. Seriously, if you owned a business that tolerated the carrying of firearms, how receptive would you be of the Brady Campaign constantly calling, sending letters, and emailing you? You can do something about it but getting fussy and harassing people over their opposing viewpoints seems like a childish waste of time. If enough people remove their business then something will change. If not enough people remove their business then obviously not enough people care and the bank won't care. That's as far as it will go.

Thernlund
August 6, 2008, 03:30 PM
Well... they DO have the right to post their sign. It is private property.

But we have the right to not patronize that business. We have the right to notify them of our intent not to. We have the right to let them know their policy is distasteful.

Everyone involved here is within their rights. So lets not start in on "rights".


-T.

bleachcola
August 6, 2008, 03:31 PM
And yes it is about private property rights. Civil rights should apply to everyone, not just those that share our viewpoints. They aren't taking any rights away from you bc you are not required to be on their property. But to think you should have the power to tell them what to do beyond the scope of being an angry customer is ridiculous.

22-rimfire
August 6, 2008, 04:17 PM
I'd let them know my feelings. Whether or not I would close an account(s) there and move them elsewhere would be based on their response.

I do feel they have the right to limit guns on their private property whether it be a customer or employee. The parking lot which is also their property is another matter.

DrewH
August 6, 2008, 04:30 PM
If they don't know why people are leaving their business, why would they change their policy?

It's a business with customers, I think customers sending them lots of e-mails telling them what they think of that policy is perfectly fine. How is that infringing on their precious property rights?

bleachcola
August 6, 2008, 04:39 PM
I don't see a problem with someone letting them know why they left their business. It's the right thing to do. I do think it is wrong to do it in a hassling manner or blow the situation out of proportion though. I envy the person who doesn't have bigger things to worry about in life or more pressing concerns.

Thernlund
August 6, 2008, 04:40 PM
Whether or not I would close an account(s) there and move them elsewhere would be based on their response.

I think that's key. If they were to respond, "We believe guns to be a epidemic in this country and are doing our part to stop gun violence.", well, I'm out on that. Sayonara PSB.

But, if they were to respond, "We have posted such signs in response to concerns from customers.", that how could I fault them? They can't be expected to go out of business taking a stand. Ultimately, they need to do whatever upsets fewer customers. I'd probably still leave, but with the understanding that they have a business to run and keeping me may cost more other customers.


-T.

Drgong
August 6, 2008, 04:41 PM
after all, it takes hours to type up a one paragraph letter and mail it out ...

bigfatdave
August 6, 2008, 07:44 PM
DrGong, if you are mailing that letter, you may want to rephrase.
From dictionary.reference.com
proscribe
1. to denounce or condemn (a thing) as dangerous or harmful; prohibit.
2. to put outside the protection of the law; outlaw.
3. to banish or exile.
4. to announce the name of (a person) as condemned to death and subject to confiscation of property.
Synonyms 1. censure, disapprove, repudiate

I try very hard to not be a jerk with grammar or spelling, but in the case of mailing a protest letter, hopefully it won't be taken improperly. I assume you mis-typed "prescribed".
also From dictionary.reference.com
prescribe
1. to lay down, in writing or otherwise, as a rule or a course of action to be followed; appoint, ordain, or enjoin.
2. Medicine/Medical. to designate or order the use of (a medicine, remedy, treatment, etc.).
–verb (used without object)
3. to lay down rules; direct; dictate.
4. Medicine/Medical. to designate remedies, treatment, etc., to be used.
5. Law. to claim a right or title by virtue of long use and enjoyment; make a prescriptive claim.
Back on the topic, I find it ludicrous that businesses think prohibiting lawful carry makes anybody on their property safer.
Unless, of course they actually have an armed and trained force waiting just out of sight for the purpose of subduing anybody threatening their employees/customers. Anything less is simply ignorant.

Sadly, the family I do have in PA don't bank with this institution, and I live in OH, where the silly signs are everywhere. I still can't figure out where the armed security are hiding in those places that do post as "gun-free zones", so I assume they are invisible ninjas waiting to spring into action to protect the innocent a moment before danger presents itself.

jahwarrior
August 6, 2008, 08:53 PM
want to know what their security force is? their head of security, who sits in an office all day, and an old guy in uniform, who walks around the parking lot, unarmed.

lamazza
August 6, 2008, 09:13 PM
based on their response.
Response to what? This is their stance, they started it and this is their declaration. What does a response matter.
Its like basing your action on a protest letter to higher property taxes...

FCFC
August 6, 2008, 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by 22-rimfire
Whether or not I would close an account(s) there and move them elsewhere would be based on their response.

I think that's key. If they were to respond, "We believe guns to be a epidemic in this country and are doing our part to stop gun violence.", well, I'm out on that. Sayonara PSB.

But, if they were to respond, "We have posted such signs in response to concerns from customers.", that how could I fault them? They can't be expected to go out of business taking a stand. Ultimately, they need to do whatever upsets fewer customers. I'd probably still leave, but with the understanding that they have a business to run and keeping me may cost more other customers.
This is an utterly crucial point. Many business strive to be customer oriented in all their activities. When establishing policies, such companies will try to consider the impact of the policy on their customers. This includes all of their target market.

So, if a customer oriented firm truly believes that a particular policy (i.e., no guns on premises) is beneficial for and satisfying to its entire customer base, then it will not be deterred from implementing or maintaining or defending such a policy--even in the face of a few (or more than a few) protests.

The only strong approach to take with a PSB no guns policy is to somehow demonstrate that their entire customer base would either be, a) better off with guns on their premises, or possibly, b) would be no worse off with guns on their premises.

Both of those will be difficult, though not impossible, to do. But sending an obviously fabricated "I'm a Scranton resident" protest e-mail is not the level of persuasion likely to be effective. That kind of stuff just allows the PSB people to categorize similar protests in a manner that diminishes their validity.

It's better to try adult level, businesslike persuasion...

230RN
August 7, 2008, 12:56 AM
Seems to me the bank's objective (to not have folks get scared) could easily have been solved with a regular old sign that says no firearms except concealed carry, or, for that matter, just "no guns," which permittees could more-or-less conveniently ignore, as has been mentioned above.

But instead, they put up this heavy-handed "sledgehammer" of a sign which, to me, sounded like the manager(s) are rather rabidly anti-gun and were figuratively pounding their fists on the desk with their veins popping out while they wrote it up.

That's what bothers me about the whole affair.

And yes, I agree that if you're going to write a letter to them claiming to be a possible customer, you'd better be honest about it.

Especially since there is a high possibilty that bank officals are aware of this thread* and will probably discount a lot of the letters they are getting based on that one post.

"They don't have to know this," but they probably do now.

To the detriment of our cause.

-------
*
After all, doesn't everybody, including businesses, do vanity searches?

bgeddes
August 7, 2008, 01:15 AM
I live 30 or so miles south of Scranton. It seems this is the local trend lately, anti gun things. This incident and the 'Dickson City Open Carry" issue comes to mind. Dickson City is close enough to be considered downrange from Scranton.

Best bet is to hit them where is counts. Letters, especially pseudo truths, are not going to make the bank blink. A blow to the dollars and cents bottom line will make them review their social stands. I'll make everyone I know aware of this bank's policies and make sure they react in a proper fashion. Proper fashion being, inquire about the sign, confirm the policy, and remove all funds and interests in said institution based on the acknowledged facts.

HeXeD775
August 7, 2008, 07:43 AM
has this been posted on PAFOA (Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association ), here's a link:

http://www.pafoa.org/

kevindsingleton
August 7, 2008, 08:56 AM
In Pennsylvania, the sign has no force of law. If you still want to carry in Penn Security Bank (yes, I purposely left off the "Trust", since they obviously don't), you can, up until the point where you are requested to leave by an authorized representative of the bank.

If you carry concealed, then they'll likely never know (and, you are NOT in violation of the law). If open carry is important to you (and, I'm not saying it shouldn't be), then please continue to fight the good fight. I'm not confident that bank management cares enough about the rights of its customers to allow them to protect themselves, or to provide protection while disarmed in their banks, since the sign makes no mention of the bank assuming responsibility for your safety while you are disarmed within their facilities.

I know I wouldn't want someone who demonstrated such disdain for my safety to be in charge of my money, but that decision is up to the customers of Penn Security Bank. This group will not include me, as long as Penn Security Bank management insists I become a disarmed victim upon entrance to their facilities.

MDW GUNS
August 7, 2008, 09:08 AM
provide protection while disarmed in their banks

Interesting point I was thinking about yesterday.
Does the bank have armed guards?

jahwarrior
August 7, 2008, 09:39 AM
Interesting point I was thinking about yesterday.
Does the bank have armed guards?

no. their security is an unarmed retiree in uniform, walking around the parking lot. and that's only at the main branch. the other branches have nothing.

kevindsingleton
August 7, 2008, 09:49 AM
Remember when banks used to have an armed, uniformed guard, or two, inside, and they were friendly, and offered reasonable rates on savings accounts, and the occasional premium gift for new accounts?

Today, they not only want to disarm you, while providing no other means of security, they also rape you on interest rates, can be a bit surly, and the closest they come to "gifts" is that they'll take free pictures and video of you being violated to air on the evening news.

Can somebody remind me why we still use banks?

cortez kid
August 7, 2008, 10:39 AM
I have to take exception to the "Private Property" thing. If you have a product, you have the right to either sell it to me or not. It's not mine. But when you take my money with a promise to pay me more money for the USE of MY money, you don't have the RIGHT to exclude me from the availablity of MY money through the guise of private property rights. That money is MY private property, lent to that institution to use as a LOAN to them. How would you like to be excluded from access to YOUR property. Sorry sir, but we have the loan on your house which we may call at our discretion, by the way we heard you have guns there. Guns make holes in walls. Our walls, please remove guns. Can't do that because it's YOUR private property. Miss a few payments and see whose property it really is. If they had the sign up first, then you may have a point. His money was there before the sign. His private property rights come first.
kid

230RN
August 7, 2008, 11:31 AM
Remember when banks used to have an armed, uniformed guard, or two, inside, and they were friendly, and offered reasonable rates on savings accounts, and the occasional premium gift for new accounts?

Remember when bankers used to carry their own guns? Well, I don't either, but:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20americaine/colt/a%20colt%20banker%20s%20special%20gb.htm

(Picture-heavy.)

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