.303 Brit surp ammo - pics and questions

Hello:

I came into some surplus .303 British ammo, and wanted to post pics and ask a few questions. Typically I have fired factory or reloaded ammunition, but sometimes surplus (very dirty but reliable mixed headstamp stuff). But a friend was cleaning out his storage and offered me this for sale.

Was hoping folks might comment on this, what it is, whether it's "good" ammo, and what it might be worth at today's prices.


Below, a 350-round crate of MkVII ball ammo. The tin is sealed inside the box, black sealant on the can, and it smells like petroleum resin. I think this is South African, due to the SAM and U on the box. Of course, I've not seen the headstamp.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3793.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3795.jpg


Below, three 300-round cans of Greek HXP-71 ammo. This is on chargers, and those in bandoleers.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3796.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3798.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3799.jpg


Below, a whole bunch of UK surplus ball ammo, all on chargers. There is another pile like this ... total of about 1500 rounds. It's nice and clean, and the headstamps read "GB" at 10 o'clock, "7" at 6 o'clock, and either "50" or "49" at 2 o'clock. I have not fired any of this stuff yet.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3800.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3801.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e185/GarandFan/IMG_3804.jpg

He had all of that "lying around" i want friends like yours. :D

The Greek stuff is supposedly reloadable, so don't be tossing it once it's fired.

The Greek "HXP" is excellent ammo, and yes, reloadable. Let me know if you'll part with some.

The "SAM" is South African. I haven't shot any of that, but I would expect it to be fine. It is Berdan.

The "GB" is UK mil-surp. That stuff tends to be a bit inconsitent. Also not reloadable.

Good finds.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........................

:eek:

I hate you and my SMLEs hate you.

We don't have friends like that.

Dude, You scored!

Do you hear that? That's the sound of me seething with jealousy.

Seriously though, that HXP is very good stuff. It is reloadable, but the primers are crimped if memory serves. I think you will need a swager or reamer to seat new primers.

I think this is South African, due to the SAM and U on the box.

The bilingual English and Afrikaans writing on the box is also what might be described as a hint/wenk.

As mentioned, the Greek HXP-71 ammo is boxer primed and non-corrosive, and it also is just beautiful ammo...

If you so wish, you'll be able to sell it in a flash...

The South African is also very good ammo...

The 50s dated British (49/50) is, as has also been mentioned, inconsistent...

The British ammo is also loaded with cordite, if that makes any difference to you.

Forrest

Thanks for all your replies. I hadn't meant to make anyone jealous! It's just hard to pass up a deal when they come around ... and it wasn't free!

I've already promised a local friend one of the HXP tins, and I have to keep my promise no matter how much I want to keep them for myself.

Regarding the UK stuff ... by inconsistent to you mean with regards to ignition, or do you mean inconsistent in regard to bullet/charge/case weight?

:fire:JEALOUS RAGE!:fire:

The UK has inconsistent ignition. Some of the recent stuff has had lots of click...bang issues. Definitely worth trying, though.

Shoot up the British stuff first I have had a few hangfires with the stuff.

I wish I had friends like you. The GB is british made by Greenwood & Batley Ltd, UK, the HXP made by Greek Powder & Cartridge Company, Athens, Greece and SAM is South African Mint, Pretoria, Republic of South Africa( later became PMP). The HXP are usually Boxer primed, the SAM may be boxer but the GB is Berdan primed. I have shot so HXP and it is great ammo.

Can anybody help me ID this stuff?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=82629&stc=1&d=1217985943

There was also some that just had K51 and a 7.... any ideas what it might be?

Corrosive for sure... no idea what that is...

Can anybody help me ID this stuff?



That's Woolwich Arsenal (Royal Laboratory). Presumably the 7 means Mk7 whilst the crows foot is the Ministry of Defence insignia.

Here's a good site for explaining .303 headstamps
http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html

Fred

Just to confirm, the "7" does stand for "Ball Mk.7".
The "K51 7" is also British, most likely a Kynoch export order.

The ammo I bought as being South African came in a 50rnd cardbaord box & is labeled 7,7x56R

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/arquebus1523/303005jpg.jpg

Also have some Jugoslavian(?) .303 ammo. Came in boxes of 15rnds.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/arquebus1523/303004jpg.jpg

Can anyone confirm their origins? Both are very reliable & clean shooting ammo. Accuracy has been a bit disapointing, with the Jugoslav stuff being the better of the the two. Very nice quality brass, but they are both Berdan primed. Just for fun, I have been reloading them with RWS #5620 primers, Win. 760, & 180gn Rem RNSP for about 2MOA thru my Lee Enfield #4.

You have correctly identified both. Excellent shooting ammo. It's great that you are able to reload them.

Bad part is that the SA ammo is Berdan primed. Brass is nice though. Bought 700+ rounds years ago for less than $10/box. Good old days!

The 303 Berdan primers are much easier to reload than the smaller primers in the likes of 7.62 Nato stuff if you can get the primers. The first time is the hardest, due to the crimped in primer. I made up a pick after reading a piece in an Elmer Keith book in which he described digging primers out of Brit big game cases. A Lee case debur tool with a hole ground in the point to clear the Berdan anvil took care of the crimp. After the first reload I use a rod with two pins epoxied in to knock them out. I made the pins from 1mm piano wire. A Lee priming tool with a 1/4 inch bolt reshaped to be the priming rod after drilling out the plastic housing works fine. All in all not too hard & very therapeutic. I learnt the hard way to anneal my case necks & be sure to flush the bore with hot water after shooting the original loads, the original primers are almost certainly corrosive, the Brits were some of the last to ditch corrosive primers.
Steve

Awesome!!!!

Shinz said: The 303 Berdan primers are much easier to reload than the smaller primers in the likes of 7.62 Nato stuff if you can get the primers.

Actually both my So. African & Jugoslav cases use the smaller 5.5mm berdan primer. I managed to pick up 2500 RWS 5620 primers when I was overseas a couple of years ago, but have little hope of finding any others when they're gone. Oh well, I have a stash of S&B, & Federal boxer primed cases for when that day comes.....won't be as much fun though!

Now you have an "excuse" to pick up a SMLE.

The UK has inconsistent ignition. Some of the recent stuff has had lots of click...bang issues. Definitely worth trying, though.

I've now fired some 150 rounds of the GB headstamp. To my surprise (and delight) only one of those rounds had delayed ignition, and the delay was barely perceptable. The deals are out there!

Bad part is that the SA ammo is Berdan primed. Brass is nice though. Bought 700+ rounds years ago for less than $10/box. Good old days!

Today is tomorrow's good old day. All told I think I paid $400 for that ammo above. For 2750 rounds that's what, about $.145 a round.

The Berdan primers I'm familiar with in 303s are similar to the ones in the pics of the RL & GB cartridges posted above, I have a tin of 1000 which has over 800 left, I use these in CAC brass, CAC was Colonial Ammunition Co here in NZ & loaded from (I think) late in the 19th century till about the 1980s. I assumed that all 303s would have the same size, not sure why :o , I have some of the RWS ones too which I use in 7.62 x51 cases, harder to deprime the 1st time, easier to damage an anvil. OK after that. I've also used these in steel case 7.62x51s & 7.62x39s, just for the hell of it.:D
Steve

Shinz, yes, I believe the Commonwealth countries generally used the larger 1/4" primers (.250"-.255"), & that is what I was used to seeing, too. I read someplace that alot of the European-loaded .303 (& apparently the South African) uses the .217".

Bonza, thanks for this, mine are definitely 0.25", made by ICI in 1967, they still seem to work as good as the day I got them 20plus years ago. They don't have the small dimple in the primer disc the same as the smaller RWS ones do.
Steve

yeah man you suck! i'd love to have JUST ONE of those boxes! i rarely get to shoot my Savage Enfield. =(

yeah man you suck! i'd love to have JUST ONE of those boxes! i rarely get to shoot my Savage Enfield. =(

No excuses.:D even if you can't get milsurp ammo, there should be no difficulty getting components to load some 303BR ammo using modern bits & pieces. Keep the pressures moderate & set up the resizing die to size for YOUR rifle & you'll still get several loads per case, setting up the die to full lenght size as per the die instructions is normally the worst thing you can do. Get out & enjoy, they're blast & they can still do the bizz in the field. If you want some light loads, I've read that the 123gr AK bullets are good in front of 30 gr IMR4198, I intend to try this load next week, will let you know how I get on, should be cheap shooting.
Following on from my earlier posts about Berdan primers, I came across some 7.62x51 (308Win) cases the other day, steel, with BIG primers like Brit BG stuff, dug a couple out & they were berdan, slightly bigger than the .25" that my 303 cases take, able to push a primer in with finger pressure. Looks like I won't be reloading these, even just for the hell of it.:( :D
Steve

i just got started realoding a fwe days ago. i got a lee classic kit. that cheap, basic $20 kit from lee to do my own .45 auto

A set of Lee 303 Brit dies will be a reasonable & cheap way to start reloading for that. Pick up components when they're on special & your shooting needn't cost a bomb. Lightish loads with faster powders, 3031, 4895 type are cheaper to load, worth working up a stouter load with 150 gr bullets if you intend to hunt with it. Be sure set the resizing die to only to resize cases the bare minimum to enable reliable feeding into your chamber. Setting up the die as per the die instructions will, in most cases, lead to over resizing & consequently short case life. Happy shooting.
Steve

much of the 1961 South African stuff has hangfires, and a good many season-cracked necks.

The bilingual English and Afrikaans writing on the box is also what might be described as a hint/wenk.

Nudge nudge, wenk wenk. :D

An update on my post from 24th Oct, I finally got to shoot these light loads in my 303, 30 gns H4198, 6 shots averaged 2287fps, two shots 1/2" apart at 50 yds with open sights (Lyman peep & bead front), out to about 2" at 100yds, more likely me rather than rifle at that range.
Steve

Cool I only have about 300 mixed UK stuff on strippers,but recently Scored a hundred Winchester .303 boxer reloadable brass for $20.00!

Greek HXP is pretty good stuff. Primers are boxer and crimped into the pocket. If you neck size the Greek cases when reloading you can get 14 to 15 uses from them. Standard large rifle primers fit. I got far better accuracy with reloads from the new cartridges. Used 42 grains of Accurate 2700 with a 180 gr Rem round nose bullet.

Just for furute reference, here's a great page on 303 Brit headstamps:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/303headstamps.html