[Mt Shooter]

At the last USPSA match, on the second stage, I had the extractor blown out the side of the slide. A few pieces hit me in the nose just a little bleeding, and somthing hit my safety glasses with thwack. I am guessing it was part of the extractor. When we found the case (had to push it out with a rod) there was a crack along the side and a radial crack going down to the base of the case. Coming out from there is the space where the external extractor is and it is peeled outward about 3/8 of an inch, Primer looks normal. I tried to take pictures but they dont come out too good so that they can be seen clearly anyway. It was sugested that it was caused by an over charge, but by looking at the primer and the felt recoil I do not think so. I thinking the case had a crack on the side already and when it was fired the pressure took the easy way out and split the case even more. My target was a popper and in the video I can hear the popper being hit, but also noted was a blast of smoke coming out the side. Then myself and the R.O. are seen looking for the extractor.

On the down side I had to DNF the match, because...well my gun was broken. This was the northern rockies section match that I had put a lot rounds down range getting ready for.

On the upside no one was hurt and I called Kimber and they are sending me the parts to repair it at no charge, warranty, even after I told them what happen. Hope they get here before the 16th so I can shoot the clubs 3 gun match.

So was it and over charge or case come apart?

[Archie]

What was the load you were using?

[Mt Shooter]

200g RS berrys plated with 5.5 grains of bullseye

[Eric F]

I am leaning to an over charge. I have had many cases split and never blew a gun up. Maybe the crimp was light and the bullet got stuffed in the case deeper than safe.

What caliber?

[Mt Shooter]

45apc kimber custom II external extractor. Seen them also called a claw extractor

[Eric F]

I am going to lean towards over charge or bullet seating. I have had many 45 cases split from over use with no problems.

I did have a .40 blow up due to bullet seating.

[RyanM]

I'm guessing it fired out of battery, or the gun unlocked early. A normal overcharge would either split the barrel like a banana, or cause zero damage (unless it also fired out of battery). And a normal cracked case wouldn't leak enough powder gases to blow off the extractor since the whole point of a recoil-action firearm is to keep the action closed until pressures are dropped to a safe level. Even in the event of a smallish overcharge.

If you're using a light recoil spring and/or a radiused firing pin stop, now may be the time to make your gun stock.

[Eric F]

I'm guessing it fired out of battery um yeah I keep forgetting that option. Thats more likely with your discription, did you have hag dammage? What did the next bullet in the mag look like? was it damaged or scored in any manner?

[Mt Shooter]

freshly respring with factory (Kimber) springs. The round was the 3rd one down from a mag change. The rest of the rounds look okay.
Hard to see the crack but it is just right of the blow out.

[Wildfire]

Hey There ;
I may have to go with the over charge too.
I have fire hundreds of cases in the past that went too long and split.
no harm ever came of it. If the bullet came out fast enough to take down a popper of any weight at all, it was atleast moving that fast. The rest of the PSI went the other way.
I'm not so inclined to think it could have fired out of battery. The disconect should not be able to allow that to happen.
At 5.5 grains of Bullseye you were right up there to start with. Any tiny amout of extra powder and you could have very easily had an over charge.
Just my thoughts.

[Wildfire]

Hey:
That is a blow out .......
Over PSI on a very well used case. Not so much that is was an over charge, looks more like the case was loaded 1 too many times.

[Mt Shooter]

The pics are not real clear.......and I kinda had to figure out how to post them ....tough to teach this ol dog new tricks

[Wildfire]

Hey there ;
Your primer will not show PSI signs if a blow out happens. The blow out likely took all the PSI before the primer could flaten.
Pics were good enough to get the point .

[Walkalong]

What brand brass? There is some .40 brass folks here have warned us about. I can't remember the details right now. I may have saved the thread. I'll search.

[The Bushmaster]

Fired in an unsupported chamber, resized, reloaded and, luck of the draw, it let go in your gun...??

[wally]

Primer his is well centered, unlikely to be out of battery event unless yours is one of the very unusual guns that normally hit off center.

I'm voting overload.

--wally.

[Walkalong]

Overload or just a bad case. They don't fail like that from age.

[Mt Shooter]

The brass is Winchester, the firing pin hit looks like all the other hits. This what makes me wondering what went wrong. Once I get the gun repaired makes me a bit nervous about firing the loads that I have made up, all 1900 of them.

[Vern Humphrey]

Got to be either an over charge, or the bullet was seated too deeply (which could have happened on chambering.)

An M1911 will not fire out of battery -- the sear is not connected to the trigger. It is moved by the disconnector, which trips the sear when the trigger moves it up. The disconnector doesn't move, the gun doesn't fire.

[wally]

An M1911 will not fire out of battery

No properly designed auto pistol should ever fire out of battery. Its highly dangerous, easily the pistol equivalent of excess headspace in a high power rifle. But things break and ruling out an out of battery event is IMHO priority one for future use of said firearm.

We agree out of battery is not the issue here.

One of my old loading manuals lists 5.4gr max Bullseye for 185gr JHP and another has 5.7gr max for 200gr JHP. Newer manuals are missing Bullseye loads for many bullet weights. So 5.5 appears to be on the hot side, a fast powder, max loads, and bullet setback on chambering could be the cause.

makes me a bit nervous about firing the loads that I have made up, all 1900 of them

I'd chamber and eject a couple of mags of your remaining loads and compare OAL before/after to be sure you've got enough crimp. Pulling a random sample of the rounds and weighing the charges may not be a bad idea while waiting for the gun to come back.

--wally.

[Jim Watson]

Those soft slick plated bullets are bad about setting back when they hit the feed ramp. That might have boosted pressure enough to blow the case out at the extractor cut.

[Vern Humphrey]

Glocks and a few others can fire out of battery. An M1911 cannot.

The M1911 is fired by the disconnector being cammed upward by the trigger stirrup and tripping the sear. If the disconnector cannot be cammed up, the sear cannot be tripped.

In this case, if we can rule out an overcharge, I agree with you that insufficient crimp might be the problem -- bullets are being pushed back into the case on chambering, raising pressure.

[rcmodel]

No properly designed auto pistol should ever fire out of battery.Better tell that to Glock.

At least the older ones were made to fire out of battery, by what I consider a very sizable amount.

No wait!
That is "Glock Perfection" so they will always work, even with the slide partly out of battery! :rolleyes:

rcmodel

[brickeyee]

The M1911 is fired by the disconnector being cammed upward by the trigger stirrup and tripping the sear. If the disconnector cannot be cammed up, the sear cannot be tripped.

What happens if the disconnecter is short?

[Vern Humphrey]

You will discover that when you do your safety checks on assembly and change it out.

[RyanM]

Does look like an overcharge to me, from the pictures. Centered primer hit and no "smearing" rule out out-of-battery and early unlocking. The vast majority of 1911s have an "unsupported chamber," so that's where the pressure decided to go.

[243winxb]

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=377078 5.0gr of bullseye with a lead bullet is to hot, plated or not. :uhoh:

[243winxb]

*How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

*How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities IN one they say use mid-range loads, then in the other a 45 is ok at 900fps, do they mean 45 colt? If the bullet maker does NOT suppy loading data, i would NOT use the bullet. Is there any data anywhere for plated bullets?:confused:

[Walkalong]

Ranier used to have data for Raniers on their website. There was Midway data, Accurate data, and Vihtavuori data. It was interesting to see the comparison with lead and jacketed data.

I printed out the Midway and Accurate data. I wish I had printed the Vihtavuori data, but they still have some Ranier data in their latest online data sheet.

Here is a link to a thread with the Midway Ranier data PDF file. (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=374223) Scroll all the way down.

[ReloaderFred]

Both Accurate Arms and Ramshot have loads listed for their pistol powders with plated bullets.

I've shot thousands of Berry's plated bullets in .38 Spl., 9mm, 357 Sig, .40 S&W, 10mm, .41 Magnum, .45 acp and .45-70. As long as they're loaded correctly, they shoot great.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Mt Shooter]

The load Crony's out at 875 fps.

[brickeyee]

You will discover that when you do your safety checks on assembly and change it out.

That implies it was to short at manufacture/assembly.
I have seen them crack, resulting in a short disconnecter.

Not a lot of people perform the full gamut of checks every time they use a gun.

A 1911 with a short disconnecter can fire out of battery, so it is not "impossible."

[Wildfire]

Hey there;
I have had disconects go bad. The gun still does not fire out of battery.

I had one years ago that even went full atuo. But still did not fire out of battery. The list of parts that flew off the gun were very small . If that gun fired out of battery the list would have been much larger.

Vern was very clear and very correct with his detail of how the 1911 fires.
There should be no debate there at all.
So As I aslo said early firing can not happen.
I still say the particular bullets used have been know to be problems in the past. And They never liked hot loads. 5.5 grains of Bullseye is a HOT load.
Regardless of velocity.... And , If the case already had a split started, YES, it could have caused a blow out like that. Brass can get old and if certian cleaners were used it could also weeken that brass. BRASSO is one. It contains Amonia. That will weeken brass. Overloads can and do weeken brass also. AND to the point of cracking it or blowing it out completely.
most Mil-Spec brass is thicker. (thicker not stronger) It will not stretch as far or as many times as comercial brass.

Anyone that has shot IPSC has likely seen brass from some of the gamers guns, that have huge wide open throats. Many right at the breaking point.
Those guys don't even bother to pick up their own brass. They know it is junk. I have seen many rounds that have bulges right where your round blew out. I do not pick up range brass any more. I already have more then 10,000 rounds empty.

[Mt Shooter]

I looked at the midway data and for all 200g. cast rounds it shows 4.0 to 6.6 (seems a bit much) of bullseye. The rounds I am into now where loaded during the winter. When things thawed out a bit I test fired them. I recall that the round toward the bottom of the mag where getting set back into the case. They got put into the need to pull box. I adjusted the dies and ran all the rounds back though to tighten up the crimp a bit. after retesting all seemed to be well. I pulled one round to ensure that the crimp was not cutting into the bullet. After reading all the comments I am thinking I missed one. It set back either thought recoil or going up the feed ramp. Or.... the case was already cracked/split and I didn't catch it.