Combat worthy .22LR Rifle.


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bg226
August 5, 2008, 08:48 PM
What would be a good combat/SHTF .22LR Rifle?

The money saved on ammunition would make up for the price of the rifle, so the price of the rifle is not a concern.

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shevrock
August 5, 2008, 08:50 PM
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-AKF-22.aspx

don't shot a person with it, made specifically for zombies :D

Z-Michigan
August 5, 2008, 09:23 PM
Most semi-auto .22s are not reliable enough to recommend for combat. Most bolt-action .22s are highly reliable, but you better hope the zombies are weak and slow if that's all you have.

A .22 makes excellent sense as a survival rifle with hunting as its primary purpose. For defense, it is not the best bet.

SGW42
August 5, 2008, 09:24 PM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a275/Deity42/DSCN0308.jpg

wz 48 .22LR single shot "Mosin Nagant." :D

Sistema1927
August 5, 2008, 09:28 PM
The price of .22 LR ammo is low for a reason.

While the lowly .22 has killed anything and everything that walks on earth it would not be the best choice for most situations.

redneckrepairs
August 5, 2008, 09:31 PM
Combat worthy .22LR Rifle.

Hmm i find i cannot comment and stay high road .

Drgong
August 5, 2008, 09:34 PM
in .22 lr the best I could see is a better then nothing self defense and it could help put food in the pot in a SHTF, as ammo is plentiful.

MRIman
August 5, 2008, 09:35 PM
AR with a .22 conversion kit comes to mind.

SGW42, Love that WZ-48. Been looking for one myself.

goon
August 5, 2008, 09:36 PM
I have a 10/22 that I'd trust if I had to use it for that but it did need work right out of the box to be reliable.
It is also said that hi-cap magazines for the 10/22 are known to be of questionable reliability.

FWIW, the only .22 rifle I've ever owned that never had a failure is a bolt action. Every other one I ever had and many of the ones I shot had the occasional malfunction.

shevrock
August 5, 2008, 09:38 PM
sweet gun SGW42

aka108
August 5, 2008, 09:39 PM
None

Gordon
August 5, 2008, 09:39 PM
I think a good Ruger 10-22 is very reliable if kept clean and fed ammo it likes. Even Winchester 69 and 52, Remington 40 and 513 and Anshutz .22 bolt guns can jam when manipulating the bolt under stress, I KNOW I've used and own them all. A Marlin 39 is prolly better and the Winchester Model 62 pump is prolly THE most reliable .22- thats why they were used for years in shooting galleries!

shevrock
August 5, 2008, 09:43 PM
My only 22, is the most reliable i've ever fired [because i've fired more than mine]. It's an H&R model 755. the only malfunctions were due to the ammo. [no powder in the case :D]

I'm Thinking...
August 5, 2008, 09:57 PM
A Remington Nylon 66 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Nylon_66) (just think of a semi-auto Spencer rifle; 14-15 shot magazine in buttstock), or something else by Remington; the Nylon 77 (http://www.chuckhawks.com/rem_nylon_rifles.htm) (box-magazine fed; perhaps 10 shots).

I'd take the Nylon 66, even allowing for the zombie menace ;)

Gordon
August 5, 2008, 09:59 PM
I forgot and agree on the Nylon 66 !

JTW Jr.
August 5, 2008, 10:41 PM
only one I would attempt it with is an American 180 :)

I'm Thinking...
August 5, 2008, 10:47 PM
An American-180 firing some 25 to 35 shots per second? Nah; I'd have to take the Nylon 77 (color brown) with a 100-round magazine. The AM-180; that's just :cuss: Spray and Pray :p

JTW Jr.
August 5, 2008, 10:52 PM
guessing you have never shot one. Cause the one thing it isnt is spray and pray. Putting a nice 4 -5 shoot group on target is easy if you do your part.

I'm Thinking...
August 5, 2008, 11:00 PM
I read some reviews of it when it first came out (I don't recall how long ago.). The reviewer (Shooting Times?) had the pleasure of firing a full-auto (selective?) version. As for the rate-of-fire I referred to, it was from that magazine article.

Perhaps you are thinking of a semi-auto version.

JTW Jr.
August 5, 2008, 11:02 PM
nope , we dont allow semi's at our subgun matches here in Vegas , 3 or 4 guys have them , one guys wife shoots his at each match. A drum dump in center mass , is certainly something to see. Will see if I can get a video at the Sept Match.

I'm Thinking...
August 5, 2008, 11:08 PM
September... that's a ways to wait! :what: :D ;)

Well, I suppose if the piece is all "old-fashioned" wood & steel, then there wouldn't be much flexing or whatnot and a decent groups-size could be gotten w/a 4-5 burst. And no, I've never shot one of those myself :(

Rifleman 173
August 5, 2008, 11:56 PM
Rifles in the caliber of .22LR have been used to defend lives and property. But the key was the training and practice that the shooter/user got BEFORE the confrontation. So, can the lowly .22 be a viable personal defense firearm? Yes, but there are stipulations and limitations to its effectiveness. You have to know what kind of a situation you will be involved in and you have to practice that event long before it happens. You then put your theories to work when the critical situation arises. A good Ruger 10-22 with a 50 round magazine could "almost shred" a hostile person if used in the proper manner. Damage would be extreme without a doubt.

I'm Thinking...
August 6, 2008, 12:03 AM
10/22 w/a bunch of goodies (as you've suggested); sounds good to me...

Beagle-zebub
August 6, 2008, 12:06 AM
Don't the Israelis field a suppressed .22 for disrupting demonstrations or whatever? I definitely remember reading about that.

Floppy_D
August 6, 2008, 12:07 AM
We have to assume that you are caught in a SHTF and stuck with a 22... because I can't imagine keeping a 22 and feeling prepared. For feeding the fam, a 22 will suffice. For protecting the fam, if limited to a 22, I'd want capacity and feedability in droves; you're most reliable 22 semi you own with as many hi-caps as the situation permits.

Z-Michigan
August 6, 2008, 12:18 AM
I have two semi .22's, a Ruger 10/22 that is stock and well maintained, and a Walther G22, ditto. Neither one is reliable with any brand of ammo I have tried, including good CCI stuff. Oh, they are tolerably reliable for target shooting - I would say the Ruger feeds 19/20 and the Walther more like 9/10 rounds - but that is far below anything remotely acceptable for self defense situations.

I have heard good things about the Marlin model 60, but I don't own one. I still doubt it would be reliable enough.

It is easy to get centerfire rifles and handguns that are reliable 99/100, and 999/1000 isn't all that hard either, provided you use decent ammo, do modest maintenance, and use the right, quality magazines.

Avenger29
August 6, 2008, 12:23 AM
Don't the Israelis field a suppressed .22 for disrupting demonstrations or whatever? I definitely remember reading about that.

Yes, they tried to use suppressed Ruger 10/22s as less-lethal crowd deterrent. They thought that using low powered .22 ammo would not do enough to kill. Didn't work, though. Still killed. I think one of the strategies they wanted to use was to shoot the knees of protest leaders.

For a fighting rifle, it's better to go with a decent inexpensive higher power rifle.

Good affordable options for the working man:

Mosin Nagant 91/30. Under $100 and affordable surplus ammunition. Russian pedigree, a piece of history. What's not to like?

SKS. Again, Communist hardware. $200, affordable ammunition, loads with stripper clips. Nice sight upgrades with the TechSIGHTS. Decently accurate.

WASR Romanian AK clone. $400. Decent rifle, good reliability. Quality control has improved in recent times. Affordable ammunition.

SIAGA rifle. Russian AK, sporterized. About as accurate as a general AK is going to get. Cheap. Affordable. Can be evilized without too much effort if you are so inclined. Good quality.

Notice the Russian/Combloc hardware? It ain't always pretty, nor the most accurate, but it darn well works and is affordable for the masses. And, it's available.

Marlin 336 levergun. High quality. Accurate. Ammunition of decent power and relative affordablity. 6+1 shots most models.

Remington 760/7600 pump action rifle. Look for this one on the used racks, too. Full power rifle cartridge, 4 rd magazines, pump reliabilty

Stevens and Mossberg bolt action rifles...affordable and accurate rifles.

See? There are lots of choices if you are limited in a budget from anywhere between $100 to $500. You should be able to find these rifles under $500, especially used.

I still think you should buy a good .22 no matter what your other plans are, simply because they are enjoyable and will help you develop your shooting skills. They are also valuable for small game, and the ammunition is cheap and takes up little space. But it is NOT suitable for combat unless you have no other choice or cannot use anything larger (say you have a debilitating back injury or similar)

Sonic
August 6, 2008, 12:24 AM
The GSG5 would seem to be a good candidate.

http://www.americantactical.us/gsg-sellsheet-for-web.pdf

GunBlast reviewed it and liked it.
http://www.gunblast.com/GSG5.htm

Also, if you wanted something more compact you could buy the pistol version (http://www.americantactical.us/images/GSGHand2.jpg), form 1 it as an SBR, and put a stock on it after you get the the NFA tax stamp back from the ATF (assuming SBRs are legal in your state of course).

yongxingfreesty
August 6, 2008, 12:28 AM
easy, my tactical 10/22

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v712/yongxingliang/DSC00021-3.jpg

JesseL
August 6, 2008, 12:46 AM
This question seems to be a little akin to "what go-kart is best for sailing the Pacific?", but if I had to answer I'd say a 10/22 with as many reliability upgrades as possible.

Sabah Alev
August 6, 2008, 12:50 AM
what sort of combat would you be in? there some massive war against rodents I was unaware of?

Z-Michigan
August 6, 2008, 01:32 AM
there some massive war against rodents I was unaware of?

My Walther G22 has been described as the ideal weapon for CQB against an elite force of gophers.

Mine is extra-tacticool with a 2x red dot sight on the rail. It's pretty easy to hit a 2" swinging target at 25-50 yards.

Just better hope the gophers don't have reliable AK's.

RonE
August 6, 2008, 01:33 AM
Cast my vote for the AR-7

retgarr
August 6, 2008, 01:38 AM
A .22 combat rifle? None, rimfire ammunition isn't as reliable as centerfire.

Avenger29
August 6, 2008, 01:50 AM
Cast my vote for the AR-7

There aren't many bad .22s, but I believe the AR-7 ranks among them. I've never been impressed by them at all. A couple of members here swear by them, but many here don't have a high opinion of them.

If you are looking at a takedown .22 of the AR-7 type, the Marlin Papoose is a better rifle. In any case, I prefer more substantial rifles. For a very lightweight .22, I'd take a long hard look at a 10/22 with a TacSol barrel set in a light synthetic stock (like a nice Corelight). I am very impressed by the low weight of these rifles...

Girodin
August 6, 2008, 01:51 AM
Well I just bought a super tacticool GSG-5P that will be getting SBRed and have some goodies added. It is super tacticool and a very fun toy. It is not something I would bet my life on. Nor are any of the other .22s that I own (or could go buy). I would not consider any .22 a good defensive rifle. Sure it might work but why limit your self. It is one thing to keep one around with thousands of rounds as a hunting rifle for a SHTF senerio but as a main rifle there are much much better choices.

$2000 would get you a Saiga a bunch of mags and a good stock pile of ammo. $800 would get you a saiga a half a dozen mags and a couple thousand rounds of ammo.

In fact the same is true for half that amount of money.

Stevie-Ray
August 6, 2008, 03:10 AM
don't shot a person with it, made specifically for zombies Oh great, thanks a bunch shev.:rolleyes: Another damn .22 I want, now.:(

Sabah Alev
August 6, 2008, 03:28 AM
My Walther G22 has been described as the ideal weapon for CQB against an elite force of gophers.

Mine is extra-tacticool with a 2x red dot sight on the rail. It's pretty easy to hit a 2" swinging target at 25-50 yards.

Just better hope the gophers don't have reliable AK's.

hey now, that lazier sight gives you an unfair advantage against the small woodland creature. at least in Colorado. /sarcasm


no really this concerns me, what sort of combat are you preparing for?

berettaprofessor
August 6, 2008, 10:46 AM
Shev; No bayonet? Who'd want it? LOL

Z-Michigan
August 6, 2008, 11:33 AM
hey now, that lazier sight gives you an unfair advantage against the small woodland creature. at least in Colorado. /sarcasm


Funny thing - in Michigan it is illegal to hunt deer with a laser sight, as it is classified as an illumination device (aka spotlighting).

But, beyond the fact that I currently don't hunt, and definitely wouldn't hunt a deer with a .22 LR, my G22 has a red dot, not a laser...

yesit'sloaded
August 6, 2008, 12:54 PM
Here is my evil tactical .22
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r24/86PlymouthQuest/DSCF0057.jpg?t=1218038042

Red Tornado
August 6, 2008, 01:15 PM
I'd go with the Nylon 66 crowd. It's kind of the AK of the .22 world. Just keeps working whether you clean it or not.
RT

goon
August 6, 2008, 01:43 PM
To go along with all of the above...
When I was at my apartment I didn't keep many guns there, usually just one handgun and one long gun.
When I had the 10/22 I kept a few 10 round magazines loaded with CCI mini-mag solids. I figured that if I had to use it I'd probably need five or more rounds to stop an attacker, but it's also not that hard to put five rounds on target fast with a 10/22.
I don't think the .22LR is the best choice for a defensive weapon, but if it's all you have or you can only afford a .22 for now but want to be able to at least use it for defense, it's not the most terrible thing you could wind up with.
IMO, stick with the hottest solid ammo you can find and make sure it's reliable.
I'd say that if you really had to, any RELIABLE repeater that holds a lot of ammo shouldn't be too bad of a choice.

But I agree that it would be wise to add something larger as soon as finances allow. Personally, I like the lever action 30-30 as a good general purpose rifle with decent defensive capabilities.
They turn up under $250 in decent used shape pretty often in my area.

Vern Humphrey
August 6, 2008, 02:14 PM
E. C. Harris and I had a long discussion on this subject some years ago -- the consensus was that what we're really talking about is a survival gun for a pilot, not a combat weapon. We sort of agreed that a Ruger automatic with a can and a brick was close to ideal.

Vaarok
August 6, 2008, 03:07 PM
Calico M100, 'cause that's a lot of .22s.

PTK
August 6, 2008, 03:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GbjXvH7xJA


It's my SBR 10/22 with a silencer. 25 round mags, and we're good to go. :D

SimpleIsGood229
August 6, 2008, 04:18 PM
PTK,

That is very, very nice! However, I'd prefer this for what the OP is asking about. :evil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abTGAP7tG0Y

Defensory
August 6, 2008, 04:26 PM
.22LR and "combat worthy" are oxymorons, unless you only intend to wage war against an invasion of squirrels on your property. :D

twofourthree73
August 6, 2008, 04:46 PM
In a combat situation, (not just home defense) you have to assume the other guy has a weapon and will want to use it against you. In that case, the best .22 lr rifle is one you can use to quietly shoot the bad guy and take his weapon. I'd go with a silenced bolt action; aim for the head, run fast, and get a better weapon.

If this were expanded to any .22 lr weapon, I'd get a silenced Ruger Mark III pistol.

Drgong
August 6, 2008, 05:00 PM
Assuming war or SHTF that your not going to worry about ATF regs.

Take savage or 10/22, saw off the barrel, make a SBR, thread the barrel and add a suppressor, and use it as a quiet sniper and grab a better gun.

Just my .02 Lira.

22-rimfire
August 6, 2008, 05:03 PM
I'd say a Ruger 10/22 that you have shot a lot and are familiar with the ammunition reliability. You may be trusting your life to it. I have no problem using it as a defensive weapon. Check all of your magazines for reliability. Toss the ones that aren't 99% reliable. I refrain from addressing the "combat worthy" part as 22's are not battle rifles and are not intended for fighting armies.

For a low intensity SHTF, the 22 is fine. If you're talking about roving bands of zombies, then I'd want a rifle with a bit more punch (and range) along with a Glock. Caliber is your choice.

If you're heading for the woods, I'd go with your favorite accurate bolt action 22 rifle. I pretty much want to be able to shoot the eye out of a rabbit at 50 yds.

Kentucky
August 6, 2008, 05:16 PM
This is an easy question. Behold the answer!

http://www.tacticalinc.com/imagemagic.php?img=zOHCytncktPh0NXE6JOVoZqQlpyZnM3kyA%3D%3D&w=500&h=400&page=popup

R.W.Dale
August 6, 2008, 05:23 PM
CZ452 trainer......WHY? Military style tangent sights nuff said

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/cz_452_lux.jpg

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_OQIAmGF1UFBIM:http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5356/my452trainertangentsighig7.jpg



Cast my vote for the AR-7

I guess you could throw it at the target but unfortunatly it isn't heavy enough to do much damage

There simply aren't enough curse words in the english language to say enough bad things about the ar7

Avenger29
August 6, 2008, 09:50 PM
FWIW, the best high cap mags for the 10/22 are the Tactical Innovations aluminum or polymer mags.

The Ruger 10 round rotary mags are good too, but limited in capacity

The Butler Creek Steel lips and hot lips mags come next

The Promag drums are junk

Everything else is generally junk, too. I had a Ramline 50 rdr until about the 2nd time I loaded it...the hard loading got old FAST. And, it hung up continuously. So I tossed it...

Z-Michigan
August 6, 2008, 10:46 PM
Assuming war or SHTF that your not going to worry about ATF regs.

IMHO, a big and unwarranted assumption. Think of the Katrina situation. Yes, total anarchy for a while - how long depending where you are - but after order is restored, I'm sure all the prior laws were enforced with a vengeance. I would not want to be caught 6 months later with an unregistered NFA type weapon that seemed like a good idea during the SHTF but was illegal anyway.

VA27
August 6, 2008, 11:03 PM
ANY box mag fed gun IF, starting with a squeeky clean gun, enought mags and good ammo, it will fire 200 rounds as fast as you can fire it without any stoppages. Use the same test for tube-fed guns, it'll just take a little longer to reload.

There are a LOT of 22's out there that'll do that. Pick one you like.

I like the Nylon 66, the Browning SA, the Marlin, almost any old Winchester, the Remington 550, 552's are good, too. The Thompson/Center looks good, but I've never shot one. So does the discontinued CZ 511.

VA27
August 6, 2008, 11:11 PM
///////////

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 6, 2008, 11:46 PM
I say that not counting the American 180 and the two-ruger back to back contraption with gatlin gun trigger wheel posted there by Kentucky, the closest thing to a combat round you'll find in .22lr is with the Aguila "SSS" (sniper subsonic) 60 gr round. It's the length of a long or long rifle, with the case size of a short. It's a definite penetrator. As for rifle, you need something higher than a standard 1 in 16 twist. 1 in 9 happens to work quite nicely in an AR conversion. But for combat I wouldn't trust these funkily-shaped rounds to cycle in a semi-auto. Therefore a turnbolt or levergun or pump with a custom barrel with higher twist, shooting these SSS's is the closest you're gonna come to combat worthiness with .22 rimfire.

the ideal weapon for CQB against an elite force of gophers.

Soccom/Seal/operator gophers, mind you - not just any old militarily-trained gophers. snicker, snicker... :)

Sylvan-Forge
August 7, 2008, 02:36 AM
Hmm..


A silenced .22 rf rifle can be appropriate for a 'stealthy interdiction' on a known soft target(s) at less than 100m. Need reliable intel, plus good planning and operational skills.


Perhaps, more importantly ..

for teaching new SHTF recruits and maintaining your skills,

for harvesting more small game per outing (load economy),

for pest/varmint control (sanitation and crop defense),

for putting down injured livestock.

I'm sure there are plenty more good uses.

.Generally speaking.

Semi auto
Pros - Rate/volume of fire.
Cons - Mechanical complexity, noise, possibly more weight.

Pump
Pros - Mechanically more simple than a semi and more quiet. Faster than a bolt action.
Cons - Lower rate/volume of fire.

Bolt action
Pros - More quiet than a pump, but slower. Mechanically simpler than a semi.
Cons - Lower rate/volume of fire.

.

I don't really want to charge foes with a .22 semi-auto rifle.
I'd rather try and snipe 'em.
Practice, teach and eat definitely.
SHTF and parts wear out and need replacing ..
I think a bolt or pump action..

CZ makes nice bolt rifles .. I like that 452 in krochus's pic, t'is right perty.

:)

Sun195
August 7, 2008, 03:07 AM
Springfield M6 - that way, you get a .410 option at no extra charge!

memphisjim
August 7, 2008, 03:16 AM
id have to back a full auto american 180 with 275round drum

Davo
August 7, 2008, 04:16 AM
A .22 mini gun.

C-grunt
August 7, 2008, 04:27 AM
In a fall of gov., invading forces type of SHTF a good .22 rifle would be a great weapon to have.

Guerilla warfare baby!

I could carry it and a brick of ammo and run disruption without having to constantly look for ammo.

No doubt for full on fire fights the .22 rifle is not a good weapon at all, but for a hiding in the mountains gun, its up there.

Mine would be my Savage bolt my wife bought me from Walmart. Well built sturdy construction, fairly accurate, and good sturdy irons.

Sabah Alev
August 7, 2008, 04:36 AM
I could carry it and a brick of ammo and run disruption without having to constantly look for ammo.

define disruption in your scenario? like "oh bugger that guy just died where it it come from" or "dear me someone popped my mouse..i loved it so"

(all in good fun of course)

C-grunt
August 7, 2008, 04:56 AM
More of the first scenario. Hit and run.

Lone sentries or maybe even small groupes if I had some help.

Mp7
August 7, 2008, 05:38 AM
PTK - that is an awesome custom Ruger you built there!

i want one!

my summary:
- an AMerican 180
- a nylon
- PTK´s SBR Ruger.


this thread finally let me know it was a nylon,
that i was plinking with in the good ol days in
my appalachian backyard.....

( ...Pine Mountain represent!)

luft97
August 7, 2008, 05:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GbjXvH7xJA


It's my SBR 10/22 with a silencer. 25 round mags, and we're good to go.

Very nice gun. Great suppressor you made.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
August 7, 2008, 12:04 PM
Yeah, love that overbuilt suppressor. Good job. How difficult was it to build? Do you have plans for sale or free? What's the BATFE form you get to build one?

kamagong
August 7, 2008, 01:18 PM
CZ452 trainer......WHY? Military style tangent sights nuff said

Hey that's my CZ! :D

HB
August 7, 2008, 01:40 PM
SHTF threads always make me giggle.... I understand "survival" and "HD" guns, but I don't think that I'll ever need the take out ANYBODY if and earthquake hits STL.

Back on topic, most .22 are very reliable. My Single shot NEF has never failed, my savage sometimes has poor extraction, but always goes bang, and even my Winchester 190 rarely fails. Bolts are the way to go, but after all, it's just a fantasy :neener:
And if the S ever HTF, I'll be the fat guy on the bike wearing ALL my clothes with a backpack full of baked beans with a .22 over his shoulder heading to my farm

Awesome gun PTK

HB

Browning
August 7, 2008, 02:01 PM
Well if I found a genie in a bottle or something and I could get anything I wanted period (and I didn't have to worry about going through the hassle and expense of getting the local police chief to sign off on it, to wait for the ATF to approve it and then pay a whole bunch of money that I don't have to spend), then I guess it would be an accurized Ruger 10/22 with a B&C Anschutz stock, a Volquartsen carbon fiber barrel and trigger, a Zeiss scope and a Gemtech suppressor.

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=79950&d=1213536552

In fact this gun (mine) with just a few mods done to it (Zeiss Rapid Z scope and the Gemtech suppressor).

JFrame
August 7, 2008, 02:18 PM
Well if I found a genie in a bottle or something and I could get anything I wanted period (and I didn't have to worry about going through the hassle and expense of getting the local police chief to sign off on it, to wait for the ATF to approve it and then pay a whole bunch of money that I don't have to spend), then I guess it would be an accurized Ruger 10/22 with a B&C Anshultz stock, a Volksquarten carbon fiber barrel and trigger, a Zeiss scope and a Gemtech suppressor.

What he just said...

Mike Franklin
August 7, 2008, 02:24 PM
The only .22 I could think of would be an M14 in .308 or an M1 Garand '06.
The full auto stuff is gonna suck up ammo.
The 'Ninja' plan of defense/assault makes great movies but stinks in real life.

JesseL
August 7, 2008, 02:39 PM
The only .22 I could think of would be an M14 in .308 or an M1 Garand '06.

What did I miss here?

Sabah Alev
August 7, 2008, 04:31 PM
More of the first scenario. Hit and run.

Lone sentries or maybe even small groupes if I had some help.

but its a .22, why not something with range or power for that matter...if you want quiet get a suppressor, I'm only going to assume in this scenario ATF isn't going to be breathing down your neck about it.

shiftyer1
March 27, 2009, 01:08 AM
If your also gonna have a shotgun also then a 10/22 or a model60 would be my choice. If you mean only a .22 then I think whatever u have with rapid plans to upgrade. Yes a .22 will kill just about anything MOST people will encounter, with proper shot placement, and the planets aligning just right on the 2nd thursday of the month. I would not relie on it entirely for my survival. A good .22 is worth it's weight in gold......almost, BUT there are much better options available. If your planning ahead.

SUWANNEE MAN
March 27, 2009, 01:33 AM
GSG-5 gets my vote. Soda can accurate at 100 yards with iron sights. Fun little rifle. Great for practice and plinking.

Mike U.
March 27, 2009, 02:51 AM
AAAGGGHHH!! Zombie thread! RUN!!

If your gonna shoot .22 bullets in combat, get an AR. Seriously...:scrutiny:(This from an AK guy.:eek: .)
.22 LR should never be considered for an MBR. Only way I'd do that is if all my .30 cal Lead throwers suddenly got raptured.:what:

Sure, it'll work in a pinch, and maybe you can snipe someone with a larger caliber rifle. That's about the only real reason I'd consider the .22 LR in a combat role.

P.B.Walsh
March 28, 2009, 03:50 AM
Very well said

jon_in_wv
March 28, 2009, 09:49 AM
I prefer my Romanian M69 trainer for its SHTF role. Its not a comabt weapon but it would work great for scooping up small game so I'm not wasting my 7.62 ammo.

bluntweapon
March 28, 2009, 12:12 PM
(A .22 LR is not an effective cartridge for combat) True but it is a hell of a lot better than throwing rocks

(If you doubt this go out and shoot a tree or something with a .22 LR where you can notice how much damage is done. Be careful about shooting a tree. You should probably only do that from behind cover. Notice how big the hole is. Now shoot the same thing with a SKS or an AK-47 or any 30 caliber cartridge. Now compare the damage.) True Again but peaple are not tree's . tree's are made of wood peaple are made of flesh and bone. tree's are very tough we are soft and squishy and prone to leakage when holes are put unto us.
(If you've ever shot a dog with a .22 you'll know that they can flop around for quite a while before they die. The same goes for a human most likely.) A dogs brain is almost as small as a politicians and much easier to miss than the Popsicle on the end of a stick humans display. Also standard velocity ammo is much more powerful than shorts and is still subsonic and will penetrate a human skull quit easily ( it's mossad approved )

Is the .22 a good choice for a battle rifle? only if it's the only thing you have. Other wise use some thing currently in use by standing armies as a combat rifle ( except possible what ever the French are using ) On the other hand even a .22 will slow down pursuers with a hit pretty much anywhere. It all depends on how fast you and they can run and how much area you have to run in.

JImbothefiveth
March 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
There is no combat worthy .22. Even the .223 sometimes has problems.

Don't the Israelis field a suppressed .22
For crowd control. Unfortunantly, it was more lethal than they wanted, while still lacking stopping power.

Sure it might work but why limit your self
Clearly you are unfamiliar with the internet code. Seeing as how someone with an insane skill level and a lot of luck could use a .22, that's what we should all use, despite what the FBI and people who have actually been in firefights say.

.

All I can say to you guys who built up their 10/22's thinking they will actually become battle weapons is you really should have spent money on something else. I think a lot of people make their 10/22s look like that for fun. I agree that they are not a combat weapon.

tree's are very tough we are soft and squishy and prone to leakage when holes are put unto us.
The FBI says a round should be able to reach something vital, like the lungs, even if an arm is in the way, since this does happen in real life. They also say that bigger is better, until follow up shots are unreasonably difficult. They say this for a reason.

For instance, in a shootout with some bank robbers, at least one FBI agent was killed because when they hit the suspect in the arm with either a .38 or 9mm, much more powerfull than a .22, the arm stopped it and it didn't hit anything vital. If they had been using a round that met those specifications, at least one life could have been saved. (These people weren't on drugs either, the round still failed to stop) You can get .22s which meet that specification, they just won't be as big, and won't stop as fast.

As for shot placement, one of the agents who survived that fight said that shot placement is important, just not the only factor. (And a poorly placed .45 is probably not a good stopper.)

Vern Humphrey
March 28, 2009, 12:35 PM
(A .22 LR is not an effective cartridge for combat) True but it is a hell of a lot better than throwing rocks
And anyone who would deliberately set himself up to enter combat with a .22 LR is dumber than a rock.:p

Ed Ames
March 28, 2009, 12:45 PM
Lotsa necro threads recently... I guess the mania has moved from the gun stores to the ammo stores to the online forums. :)

I think the original question is legitimate. It wasn't "which should I take into combat"... "Combat ready" is an indication of quality.

There are very few 22 guns that are worth anything. They tend to be inaccurate, jam-prone, cheaply built, and poorly furnished. Most are built as plinkers and they take a lot of work to reach "range gun" status.

So disregard the capabilities of the ammunition... disregard whether it would be your first choice or even possible, and consider which rifles meet the general criteria you have for a combat rifle.

Many people consider some (not all) AR-15 clones to be combat ready. If you've handled a good one you realize that they are actually of decent quality, certainly better than most .22 rimfire rifles. The same can certainly be said of all the WWII-era battle rifles. Do any (.22 rimfire) rifles share that level of quality?

Not the round, the rifle.

Blakenzy
March 28, 2009, 01:03 PM
Perhaps a .22LR fitted with a suppressor might be useful as a close range sniping instrument in an urban setting, to effectively harass occupying troops while minimizing chance of detection. Accurate hits in officers' faces with zero report or blast to direct return fire would be demoralizing. Don't know if that counts as "combat" use.

Mr_Rogers
March 28, 2009, 01:07 PM
22LR would not be my first choice for "combat" but, if I was a BG and I knew someone was defending their home with a 22 rifle I would choose somewhere else to rob.

I object to the claims that 22 Autos are not reliable. This may be true with tricked out, plastic, modern guns but I have an old Winchester 74 that leans in the corner of an upstairs room overlooking the chicken coup (critter scaring gun). I think it holds 16 rounds. I take it out occasionally and fire 50 or so rounds, it was last cleaned so long ago I forget when. I can empty a magazine as fast as I can pull the trigger and it has never failed to fire since I've owned it.

mr.trooper
March 28, 2009, 01:41 PM
Combat worthy .22LR Rifle.
Hmm i find i cannot comment and stay high road .

And yet you still managed to make a post...

The OP should look into the reliability of the 10/22, marlin 60, Remington speed master, and browning 22 for starters.

Ideally, i would recommend a Marlin 981T with a red dot scope: it will hold 17 stingers, or 25 shorts. It will have as much energy at 100 yards as a traditional load has at the muzzle. Inside of 100 yards, It will end a bad guys existence.

Its far from ideal, but it is viable. If you can only afford to have one gun, a .22 rifle with hyper velocity ammo is an acceptable defensive weapon, at least until you can afford something better.

elmerfudd
March 28, 2009, 02:00 PM
I'd have to agree with the votes for the American 180. I'd feel pretty well equipped with one of those. Can't think of any other .22's that I'd want to defend myself with.

Loggerlee
March 28, 2009, 04:15 PM
I had a Remington "speedmaster" It never jammed,and was pretty dang accurate.
My wife's Henry rifle is also really reliable.

Coronach
March 28, 2009, 04:41 PM
.22LR =/= combat weapon

Period.

vicdotcom
March 28, 2009, 04:46 PM
Here you go! A .22 Gatling gun!
http://www.bwefirearms.com/gatling.html

A video of them. This might be a different manufacturer though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4i9_kkg30o

now THAT is combat worthy no matter what anyone says! I know its technically not a rifle though. But I wouldnt mind having that in my corner.

Vachss
March 28, 2009, 04:53 PM
My son's AR-7 works pretty nicely and has 15 rd. magazines..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v694/panzer32/guns/100_2574.jpg

yenchisks
March 28, 2009, 04:59 PM
cant believe the lack of confidence in the lonely 22lr,if you ever find your self hit buy one you ll change your mind, if hit you ll no longer want to stick around but be looking for a medic ,i think a marlin mod 60 would work,most reliable,my step dad has had three laying in the closet that he never cleans for 20+ years and they still work,the only drawback is the reloading.;)

Coronach
March 28, 2009, 06:30 PM
Listen, if I get stung by a yellowjacket I'm not going to be hanging around, either. Doesn't make the insect an effective combat round.

Would I volunteer to be shot with a .22LR? Heck no! Would I volunteer to carry one into a fight where someone else had an effective centerfire caliber? Heck no.

Mike

mattioli13
March 28, 2009, 06:55 PM
http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5574/dogsbd2.jpg

Hostile Amish
March 28, 2009, 07:25 PM
That was not funny.

On topic:

http://www.gunpundit.com/2007/am15.jpg

Titan6
March 28, 2009, 08:29 PM
Gosh I hope the OP was kidding all those days ago. I mean the .22LR has been around a long time and if were feasible for combat you could look to one that had been made and used as an MBR and talk about that but as we all know there is no such thing.

I play dress up with my 10/22, mostly for the sake of my boys but also so that it can be used for training as it makes it very similar to other rifles that fire much more effective rounds. Putting cheap red dot scopes on them and such make them fun but anyone who thinks they would be good for combat is bound to be sorely disappointed (at least for a very short period of time).

atblis
March 28, 2009, 10:54 PM
http://www.ruger1022.com/images/Israeli_ruger-2_250v.jpg

EDIT: It's evident though that it's not being relied upon as a real combat arm considering the other hardware that's being carried.

mija
March 29, 2009, 12:08 AM
The man didn't say that he was going to grab his .22 as a first choice.

If you fall back to one use one that you are comfortable and profecient with. I have a Browning T-Bolt with a heavy barrel that is great. Never jams, 10 shots in a 5" circle @ 100 yd. with peep sights on a rest. Not that you would choose a .22 with other options available. But you are going to have to count on head shots for positive results with a .22. Got a Ruger 10-22 with the heavy hammer forged stainless twisted barrel that does just about as good.
With a .22 for defense it must be very accurate, shot placement is utmost, comfortable to you and reliable. Most bolts, pumps, and levers are reliable. Many semi's are not.

kirklandkie
March 29, 2009, 12:13 AM
i doubt any of you would say this but:
a LM7 .22 AR upper with an M4 full automatic lower assembly
the LM7 is a belt fed .22
http://www.lakesideguns.com/title1/lm7basic2.jpg
google it

-kirk

coosbaycreep
March 29, 2009, 12:23 AM
I vote nylon 66.

Due to it's light weight, excellent ergonomics, and unparalleled awesomeness, at least you won't be tired from packing around something bulky and uncomfortable when you get shot by someone with a real combat rifle.

dscottw88
March 29, 2009, 12:29 AM
My Semi-Tactical 10/22

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh234/m4dscottw88/DCP_0072.jpg

Mike U.
March 29, 2009, 02:24 AM
Man! There have been some funny posts here since this zombie thread came back from the dead.
Dogs shooting bees from their mouths was not one of them, unfortunately. Too bizarre.

A dogs brain is almost as small as a politicians...

This was so funny I nearly barfed my hot sausage/linguine dinner.
Freakin' hilarious!:evil:


And, OMG(!), a belt fed .22 AR?! I honestly can't say now I've seen it all, because someone will soon post something even more outrageous here. I can hardly wait. Really!

Titan6
March 29, 2009, 02:15 PM
google it


I did. It is a conversion kit not a gun.

The LM7 upper receivers are no longer being manufactured. We have less than 10 left for sale. On sale now are LM7 packages with accessories from a "Basic" , "Shooters", and "Deluxe" systems. Prices for packages start at $1835.00 and go up. Dealers have pricing as well. We are still going to service and produce parts and accessories for the LM7's in customers possession. For more info on this topic logon to our forums in the LM7 section.

9mmepiphany
March 30, 2009, 01:44 AM
i think it was mentioned back on the first page , but the American 180 really is the ultimate combat .22lr weapon. i had an chance to shoot one...they were used for site defense at the Lawrence Livermore Nuclear Labs...and with the issued laser module they were awesome on putting "rounds on target"

another military issue .22lr weapon is the Russian SV-99 sniper rifle

P.B.Walsh
March 31, 2009, 08:15 PM
Look I love the fanasie zombie or SHFT threads but really,!,!,!.!.!.!..!.!.! I'll be spending my money on a AR, or for that matter a Mini 14 or '30, and keep in mind I don't like these guns. But I would even pick up a lever 30-30 before I would a .22lr at least a 30-30 .223 or 7.62/39 has seen combat before but a .22lr is only (in my .02 worth of opinion) a traning/cheap shooting/use it before you have to use a knife kinda caliber.

9mmepiphany
March 31, 2009, 08:35 PM
don't discount the .22lr. other than in the battlefield/war...according to LE studies...the .22lr is responsible for the most homicides/deaths from shootings.

while i'm sure this is a very fluid trend, the .22lr is often the choice when discretion is important

kirklandkie
March 31, 2009, 08:48 PM
I did. It is a conversion kit not a gun.

oh i'm well aware, that's why i said i'd want it on an M4 lower assembly

-kirk

gunsandreligion
March 31, 2009, 08:59 PM
you definatly want a calico 22 or a american 180

heron
March 31, 2009, 11:25 PM
Assuming war or SHTF that your not going to worry about ATF regs.

Take savage or 10/22, saw off the barrel, make a SBR, thread the barrel and add a suppressor, and use it as a quiet sniper and grab a better gun.In that scenario, are you going to have the tools, material, skill, and time necessary to do all that -- and know it will work properly -- while still taking care of other daily survival needs?

Do you feel lucky?

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