[1858]

I ordered a shotgun chamber gauge from Brownells to check the length of the chamber in a Winchester '97 (made in/around 1921) that I just bought. ReloaderFred mentioned that the chamber may in fact be 2-5/8" rather than 2-3/4" and that firing modern 2-3/4" ammunition would damage the shotgun. Here's what I found.

2-3/4" shell in chamber ... 2-3/4" shells will easily chamber in a 2-5/8" chamber!!

http://firearms.hawthorn-engineering.com/shotguns/win97/gauge4.jpg

Chamber gauge fully seated in chamber.

http://firearms.hawthorn-engineering.com/shotguns/win97/gauge2.jpg

Chamber gauge in chamber ... red arrow points to forward edge of annular groove indicating 2-3/4" chamber location.

http://firearms.hawthorn-engineering.com/shotguns/win97/gauge1.jpg

It's clear that the chamber is indeed 2-5/8" and NOT the desired 2-3/4". If the chamber was 2-3/4", the front edge of the groove would be in the same plane as the back face of the cartridge in the first picture .. clearly that isn't the case. Brownells has a very good instruction sheet with some excellent information and explanation as to why a short chamber is REALLY bad for a shotgun.

Brownells shotgun chamber gauge. (http://firearms.hawthorn-engineering.com/shotguns/win97/shotgun_gauge.pdf)

Now I have to decide whether to find/pay a gunsmith to cut the chamber or whether to order a chamber reamer from Brownells and do it myself.

:)

[gp911]

Thanks for the info!

gp911

[redneck2]

A chamber on a 2 3/4" is not just 2 3/4". You have to allow enough room for the crimp to open. A 2 3/4" is most likely close to a 3" measurement

[1858]

A chamber on a 2 3/4" is not just 2 3/4". You have to allow enough room for the crimp to open. A 2 3/4" is most likely close to a 3" measurement

redneck2, I don't agree with that. A 2-3/4" chamber measures 2-3/4" ... that's why it's called a 2-3/4" chamber. The shells that you shoot in that chamber, which are sold as 2-3/4" shells by the way, measure approximately 2-1/4". Once fired, the 2-1/4" shells unfold to just under 2-3/4". What's important is that the outer casing doesn't unfold into the forcing cone.

:)

[oneounceload]

A chamber on a 2 3/4" is not just 2 3/4". You have to allow enough room for the crimp to open. A 2 3/4" is most likely close to a 3" measurement

ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND UNSAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 2-3/4" is the OPENED shell measurement, NOT the factory loaded shell measurement out of the box......that info could get someone hurt or killed or create great damage to the gun:banghead::eek::scrutiny:

[Cuzzin]

+1 on Oneounceload's and 1858's replies - a 2-3/4" shell is actually 2-1/4" long unfired, a 3" shell is 2-1/2" long unfired. I don't mess with those silly 3-1/2" shells....:rolleyes:

[Bud Tugly]

Midway (and probably others) still sells 12 gauge shells in 2", 2 1/2", and 2 5/8" sizes, so you don't necessarily have to get it re-sized for 2 3/4" shells to use it. Might still be a good idea to have it altered from a safety standpoint, though, in case somebody puts a 2 3/4" shell in it by mistake.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseCategories.aspx?tabId=3&categoryId=9217&categoryString=653***

[1858]

Midway (and probably others) still sells 12 gauge shells in 2", 2 1/2", and 2 5/8" sizes

Bud Tugly, that's a good point but the choices seem to be limited compared to the 2-3/4" shells, muzzle energy may be an issue for CAS (will need to check on that) and the cost is higher too (I think). Thanks for the suggestion though ...

:)

[oneounceload]

checkout poly-wads site for 2 and 2-1/2" shells - they even carry low pressure Vintager for older guns with short chambers...

[1858]

oneounceload, thanks for the tip. I found exactly what you described and the price is decent too ... $95.00/250. I'll still most likely get the chamber reamed and a longer (1-1/2") throat cut. There must be a reason why folks do that to the older Winchester '97 shotguns since it seems to be very common. I'll need to look into the reason for that but it may be as simple as not wanting to have three lengths of shells lying around if they have other shotguns with the more modern 3" chamber.

(Case of 250) Vintager 2-1/2" 12 Gauge Shotshells - Low Recoil Low Pressure
(24 Gm., #8 Shot, 2-1/4 Dram Equivalent) from POLYWAD (http://www.polywad-shotgun-shells.com/12gavin8/)

:)