Hearing for New York State Pistol License


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zminer
August 6, 2008, 05:40 PM
I've finally navigated my way through the application process for a New York State pistol license in one of the more restrictive counties, and I just recently received a letter saying that I have been scheduled for a civil court hearing related to the license. They mentioned in our pistol license class that the licensing officer (the judge) can call you for a hearing if s/he wants to, but it's still a little off-putting to get an unexpected letter from a judge!

My suspicion is that they will ask pretty much all of the same questions they ask on the application, so they have you affirming your answers under oath. But I suspect they'll also ask some questions designed to get at whether you're a violent person, whether you're impulsive/reckless, to try to find some way to deny the permit. My attitude is that all I need to do is dress nice, keep my answers short and truthful, and that will be that. At least I have the benefit of the knowledge that I am a good person - and a safe person to have carrying a gun - so hopefully that truth will set me free.

Has anyone else ever attended a hearing for their pistol license?

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romma
August 6, 2008, 10:42 PM
Wow, a hearing with a judge? Holy Moly...

I had to go meet the IA for my town to get my temp Local Permit originally... The police Captain for the town I live in and the fact that I had a history as a youth and my past was discussed but not really an issue in his or my eyes.

Colt Smith
August 7, 2008, 12:34 AM
In which county do you live?

Prince Yamato
August 7, 2008, 12:49 AM
A judge? OK, so you're in one of the more restrictive counties. Dress nice, keep your answers short and sweet, and don't backtalk.

Is this for an unrestricted permit or a restricted one?

yourang?
August 7, 2008, 09:56 AM
although i didnt have to have an interview with the judge,
i was able to write him a letter during the application process
to request that i be "granted" full carry ....aka as "unrestricted"

i told him that i do a lot of outdoor stuff like hiking, camping
backpacking etc,

i also said that i have seen rabid animals and always saw
the need to have some protection for that, while not trying
to sound like some kind of game warden with a job to do
(if you know what i mean)

most counties dont want to hear anything about self defense
so i would not bring that up at all, if you can avoid it

(also, you want to be sure that the judge knows that you
have locks and safes and all that good stuff too)

i am in an upstate county which will give you an unrestricted
permit, unlike some that only will give them for target, hunting,
and collecting

good luck with the interview....hope it turns out okay!

eric.cartman
August 7, 2008, 11:51 AM
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but...
If you're a law obiding citizen with no history of crime, and you answer thrutfully and honestly, and still get denied... can you say lawsiut under Heller! If it's an individual right, and SCOTUS specifically mentioned self defense, and they capriciously deny you the permit... well?

In any case, it's sad that you have to explain yourself :uhoh:

Cogz
August 7, 2008, 01:39 PM
Cartman - I don't believe it has been upheld that Heller constitutes a right to carry.

That legal fight has yet to start...

qwertyu
August 7, 2008, 03:35 PM
On that note; I live in Suffolk County and just applied for a Pistol Permit. They informed me that an officer will call within 4-6 weeks for an interview. After that, it will take an additional 4-6 months before I get my actual permit..

My question is; does anyone know what the interview questions are? Do they deny permits easily in Suffolk County? Anyone know why it takes so damn long for the whole process..?

zminer
August 7, 2008, 06:16 PM
Colt Smith:

I live in Albany County.

Prince Yamato:

If I understand correctly, the judge has the ability to issue the permit with any restrictions s/he wants, or not issue it at all. The licensing officers here in Albany have a lot of discretion over the process, and they most certainly wield it.

I've been told it's unlikely to get an unrestricted permit in this county, but I was also told that the process would take 4-6 months and they got back to me in just 2 months, so ... who knows? I suspect that the restrictions - if any (fingers crossed) - will limit me to taking the gun to and from the range, hunting, and/or officially sponsored shooting events. And while that's not good, it's better than not having a permit at all. Plus you can apply later for removal of restrictions, if necessary, and I get the impression that that is easier than getting the permit in the first place.

As I said, I'm just going to present myself as the person I am - a law-abiding citizen exercising his rights, and getting involved in a fun sport.

p85
August 7, 2008, 07:55 PM
I grew up in Jefferson county and lived there until 13 years ago. When I applied for my permit, I had an interview with a deputy and 6 months later I had my unrestricted permit.
When I moved to NC, I called the sheriffs' office to let them know that I was a new resident and that I had several handguns and what should I do. They laughed and said "nothing" "no law against it here". "Stop by when you are ready to purchase another to pickup a purchase permit".
A year and a half ago I got my CHP. This is a shall issue state. The process was easy. Took an 8 hr class and applied thru the sherrifs office. A month and a half later I had my permit.
It's about time NY got with the program.

yellowsl
August 7, 2008, 09:25 PM
In ulster county ny it can take from 2-? months to get your permit.It took 10 weeks for mine a few years ago.one guy i work with just waited 7 months for his.

I guess it could be worse the people at the pistol permit department are very nice and try to be helpful.we are issued unrestricted full carry. i dont know anyone who has just a hunting or target permit.I also never heard of anyone having to be interviewed to get thier permit. in ulster as long as you pass the background check they will issue eventually.

stormcaller111
August 7, 2008, 10:06 PM
i am in columbia county. my wife and i applied, 2.5 months later we were approved. going tomorrow for print/photo/signature.

Prince Yamato
August 7, 2008, 10:11 PM
I live in Albany County.

Then I can guarantee you that your permit will be restricted. I used to live in Rochester. I constantly think about moving back to NYS, but the gun laws are a huge turn-off.

MikeD999999
August 8, 2008, 12:34 PM
What's the difference between "restricted" and "unrestricted?" What is it restricted to/by?

Thanks,
Mike D. in Virginia

doc2rn
August 8, 2008, 12:55 PM
what part of RKBA did the courts not hit on being an individual right the K or the B?

yourang?
August 8, 2008, 01:01 PM
restricted means: only can carry to and from the range if it is marked "target"

or to and from your hunting spot if the restriction is "hunting"

ny city has the restriction of only being able to have it in your
residence or business....cant leave the house at all.....

and unrestricted is what we all hope for....full carry of concealed weapon
anywhere you are able to by law (no schools, court house, no post office,
etc) and yes you can carry in a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol

and ny has no open carry at all (except in your house or on your property
or some times when you are hunting, even with a rifle)

some join ranges that are open 24 hours.....which might let you carry
more often...but is a bending of the rules...."i was on my way to the range"

it is rather complicated so we have to know the laws pretty well, although
the above might not be perfect.....dont construe it to be legal advice

shookwell
August 8, 2008, 04:51 PM
Also, even if you are unrestricted, you can't carry at in within the New York City limits. You need to have a NYC permit to carry in NYC.

Prince Yamato
August 8, 2008, 05:42 PM
Though, to NY's credit, it has had CCW since 1936 and the unrestricted permit is (almost) completely unrestricted. You can carry in bars, etc.

TexasRifleman
August 8, 2008, 06:09 PM
Though, to NY's credit, it has had CCW since 1936 and the unrestricted permit is (almost) completely unrestricted. You can carry in bars, etc.

Wow, those 6 guys must be very happy....... :rolleyes:

yeti
August 8, 2008, 06:14 PM
Wow, those 6 guys must be very happy.......

At least they can all get together and have a cold beer on a hot Friday night.:cool:

CNYCacher
August 8, 2008, 06:44 PM
NY CCW facts.

1. NYC is NOT a part of NYS for all intents and purposes regarding firearms.
2. "Restrictions" carry no weight of law, they are merely the judge's opinion on when you can and can't carry.
3. The issuing judge can revoke the license on a whim, so he better not hear about you violating his restrictions.
4. 24-hour private indoor ranges are common in and near counties that commonly issue "target shooting only" or "to and from the range" licenses *wink* *wink*
5. Most counties in NYS issue unrestricted CCW licenses and are de-facto shall-issue.
6. NYS CCW licenses are good for life, unless revoked.
7. Schools and courthouses are the only places mentioned in NY law as no guns allowed.

tpaw
August 8, 2008, 07:06 PM
On that note; I live in Suffolk County and just applied for a Pistol Permit. They informed me that an officer will call within 4-6 weeks for an interview. After that, it will take an additional 4-6 months before I get my actual permit..

My question is; does anyone know what the interview questions are? Do they deny permits easily in Suffolk County? Anyone know why it takes so damn long for the whole process..?

Be prepared to answer ANY question pertaining to your entire life. From childhood to the present. Family members or friends who may have been arrested, your school record, military record, jobs, sports, hobbies, what you do with your spare time, do you get along with people (any problems with anyone in the past or present?), have you had any types of traffic violations, etc. Remember one thing, since your background investigation will probably have been completed, the officer who will be asking the questions already has the answers, so be truthfull. Like a lawyer, he will not ask a question that he doesn't already have the answer to.

FLA2760
August 8, 2008, 11:34 PM
After living and working in NYC for 33 years I moved to sunny Florida in 1997. It was the best thing I ever did. A friend of mine is a retired NYPD detective who had a NYC carry permit. It was good in all of NYS. Funny how NYC will not honor the NYS permit. My friend had to give up his NYC carry permit when he too moved to Florida. He now has a FL CCW that is no good in NYC. He recently qualified under HR218,otherwise known as the LEOSA and get this, he was told by the NYPD that they won't honor it! I told him that sounds illegal and he should look into it. Anyway that's how screwed up NYC is when it involves guns. Good luck on your hearing. Let us know how it goes.

MarkDido
August 9, 2008, 05:07 AM
In which county do you live?

A better question would have been; "In what COUNTRY do you live" :mad:

Prince Yamato
August 9, 2008, 12:45 PM
A better question would have been; "In what COUNTRY do you live"

The part of the USA that had CCW almost 60 years before Texas did. Most counties in NYS are "shall issue". It's just a load of paperwork.

tpaw
August 9, 2008, 01:15 PM
He recently qualified under HR218,otherwise known as the LEOSA and get this, he was told by the NYPD that they won't honor it! I

I also took the HR218. Never had a problem in NYC or any other state that I visited. Have your friend call 1 Police Plaza, NYPD Hqtrs. I think he received wrong information. Ask for the legal dept. and be sure to speak to an attorney, not some clerk.

FLA2760
August 9, 2008, 07:42 PM
I will tell him to contact NYPD headquarters. I thought it sounded wrong. Probably some misinformed soul that answered the phone.

SigNY
August 9, 2008, 07:53 PM
I live in Dutchess county and I got my permit in under 2 months and it was unrestricted. Also we did not have to complete a CCW class. From what I hear though Dutchess county is one of the easier counties to get a unrestricted license. Best of luck on the hearing. You should have no issues.

jlday70
August 10, 2008, 08:28 AM
NY CCW facts.

1. NYC is NOT a part of NYS for all intents and purposes regarding firearms.
2. "Restrictions" carry no weight of law, they are merely the judge's opinion on when you can and can't carry.
3. The issuing judge can revoke the license on a whim, so he better not hear about you violating his restrictions.
4. 24-hour private indoor ranges are common in and near counties that commonly issue "target shooting only" or "to and from the range" licenses *wink* *wink*
5. Most counties in NYS issue unrestricted CCW licenses and are de-facto shall-issue.
6. NYS CCW licenses are good for life, unless revoked.
7. Schools and courthouses are the only places mentioned in NY law as no guns allowed.
__________________

I really love the fact that from the day I turned my Pistol permit application to the day I got the permit(unrestricted) took less than two months. I am also glad the NYC influence doesn't infest Western NY.

Oh yeah and what CNY says above is true. I am working in VA, which is a gun friendly state and there more restrictions on where you can carry compared to NY.

So yeah NY has that mantra of being gun unfriendly but that stems from NYC not the real NY.

Carl N. Brown
August 10, 2008, 09:18 AM
The New York Sullivan Act has been questioned before, and not
by just us faith-based gun-huggers.

WHY THE NEW YORK STATE SYSTEM FOR OBTAINING A LICENSE TO
CARRY A CONCEALED WEAPON IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL

Suzanne Novak, Fordham Urban Law Journal, November, 1998

The New York State administrative system for obtaining a license
to carry a concealed weapon violates the state constitution and
the tenets of administrative law vital to a democratic society.
The New York State Legislature has delegated the important power
to grant licenses to carry a concealed weapon ("carry licenses")
to city and county administrative officials. Because the
legislature has not devised sufficient guidelines to implement
its will, this grant of power is improper. Moreover,
administrative officials acting without proper guidelines proceed
beyond their constitutional authority. The license determination
process and the accompanying disclosure rules are unfair to
license applicants. As a result, persons denied carry licenses
are not afforded meaningful judicial review.

This article discusses each of the above-listed failures of the
New York State administrative procedures for issuing carry
licenses. In addition, this article asserts that by avoiding
policy determinations, the legislature has created a system that
disadvantages both individual applicants and the public at large.
Part I of this article explains the current administrative
procedures for obtaining a carry license in New York State.
Part II describes the fundamental requirements of a fair and
constitutional administrative system as well as contends that
New York's system for obtaining a carry license fails to satisfy
these requirements. Part III discusses ways to change the current
system so that it would comport with these requirements. This
article concludes that both the New York Legislature and courts
must act to rectify the state's unconstitutional and undemocratic
scheme for issuing carry licenses.

The article is lengthy, but Novak's argument is that the New York
system of discretionary permits violates the principles of due
process and equal protection under the law.

My argument is that discretionary permit is a throwback to a
medieval system of power and authority incompatible with a
democratic constitutional republic.

You know, I bet New York could replace the Sullivan Act with an
Alaska or Vermont system (free carry by law-abiding adults) with
no bad effects, and the good effect of freeing police resources
to use against criminals, rather than against citizens.

mrreynolds
August 10, 2008, 09:32 AM
COURT SHOWS COURAGE ON GUNS
By Mike Hudson

"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." -- Thomas Jefferson, to George Washington, June 19, 1796. "After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it." -- William S. Burroughs.

Big Tim Sullivan was a notorious Irish gangster whose mob controlled New York City south of 14th Street around the turn of the 20th century. Throwing in his lot with the likes of Monk Eastman, Paul Kelly and Arnold Rothstein, Sullivan became an expert on that dark nexus where organized crime and politics consummate their unholy alliance, and soon became an influential figure in the corrupt Democratic machine there known as Tammany Hall.

He made the relatively easy transition from dangerous street thug and political ward heeler to New York state senator first in 1894. He left Albany in 1903 for a term in the U.S. House of Representatives, and returned to the legislature in 1909 after complaining that he lacked the juice in Washington he'd grown accustomed to on his home turf.

In 1911, the Irish and Jewish mobsters who put him into office faced a growing problem -- the Italians. Immigrant mafiosi newly arrived from Sicily and Naples were horning in on what had once been their exclusive domain. Gunfights on the Lower East Side and the neighborhood around Mulberry Street that was to become Little Italy grew more and more frequent, and it was getting so that you couldn't even shake down a barber shop or a greengrocer without some guy fresh off the boat taking a shot at you.

Not to worry, Big Tim told the boys. And in 1911, he took care of the problem.

The Sullivan Act was passed into law in New York state in 1911 and remains Big Tim's primary legacy. It effectively banned most people from owning and, especially, carrying handguns. Under the onerous conditions of the corrupted law, a peaceable citizen of sound mind could apply for a pistol permit, but if any of a number of elected or appointed officials objected to its issuance, he or she could be denied the license. The law remains in effect to this day and has been used as the basis for gun laws in many other states and municipalities.

One of those is Washington, D.C., which enacted its handgun law in 1973. Like the Sullivan law, it was written as a "may issue" permit statute, rather than the more common "must issue" permit statutes of many states. Under the "may issue" provision, a person can pass a police background check, take a gun safety course and jump through whatever other hoops the law requires, and still be turned down for a permit at the discretion of government officials.

Actual criminals, who have no problem breaking the laws against robbery, rape and murder, routinely ignore the absurd pistol-permitting process.

Last week, a challenge to the D.C. law wound up being argued before the United States Supreme Court. The case stemmed from a lawsuit filed by Dick Anthony Heller, 65, an armed security guard, who sued the district after it rejected his application to keep a handgun at his home for protection. A lower court threw the D.C. statute out, ruling it to be unreasonable and in violation of Heller's rights under the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The district appealed, and for the first time in our nation's history, the high court is preparing to rule on what the framers actually meant when they wrote the Second Amendment.

For many, that meaning has long been clear as glass: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Two clauses that some smart editor might have made into two sentences -- the first of which calls for the establishment of a "well regulated militia," thought by most authorities to be the present National Guard, and the second, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed," which needs no interpretation at all. Beginning in the 1960s, however, left-leaning legal theorists and postmodern politicians began putting forth the notion that the Second Amendment had nothing to do with individual rights, that it instead was intended simply to make sure that the state-regulated militia members had guns. This ridiculous reading flew in the face of much that was written by Jefferson, Washington and the other men of action who bought our country's independence with blood and ink and gunpowder, but scant attention was paid.

Guns kill people, the revisionists said. We have the police to protect us, and the truths of 1776 have no place in 20th century society.

Big Tim Sullivan's law was mimeographed, retyped and copied out by hand, and sent around to state capitols and city halls around the country, where politicians -- primarily liberal Democrats -- took up his tainted cause.

The old gangster would have gotten a laugh had he lived to see the results of his crooked efforts. But a year after the Sullivan Act was passed in Albany, he went insane -- the result, it is said, of tertiary syphilis -- and was placed in a lunatic asylum. A year after that, he escaped, lay down on some railroad tracks up in the Bronx and was cut into three ragged pieces by a slow-moving freight train.

As a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat of nearly 35 years' standing, I never thought I'd say this, but thank goodness for Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justices Anthony Kennedy, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas. They are the majority on the first high court in our nation's history to have the courage to tackle the Second Amendment issue head on.

And if the statements they made and the questions they asked last week as attorneys presented their oral arguments in the case are any indication, D.C. residents and those throughout the country may be liberated from the most outlandish and onerous gun control measures the states and cities have been able to pass in the four decades since the silly "Summer of Love" turned this great nation of ours on its head.

To begin with, the five justices clearly indicated that the "well regulated militia" clause is indeed separate from the "keep and bear arms" clause, and that alone is a huge step forward. How exactly they will rule on the specifics of the Washington law is less clear, but any easing of the restrictions it carries will represent a huge victory for gun owners everywhere.

Once the court sets its precedent, New York's Sullivan Act seems a likely next target for challenge by downtrodden gun owners whose rights have been violated for far too long.

Gun control has been a losing issue for Democrats for decades, and in national elections has cost them most of the western and southern states, as well as helping to create "swing states" out of such traditionally Democratic bastions as Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Florida.

If Sen. John McCain has any sense, he'll use the Republican-appointed Supreme Court majority's decision, which will be handed down well before November, as a major campaign issue, pointing to either Sen. Hillary Clinton's or Sen. Barack Obama's past anti-gun stances.

And if Clinton and Obama have any sense -- which, thus far, they haven't shown they have -- they will avoid the gun issue like the plague, zipping their lips and acknowledging the Supreme Court's mandate to interpret questions regarding the Constitution. If they don't, they'll be handing the election to the GOP on a silver platter.

Since its ratification by congress on September 21, 1789, the Second Amendment has never before been interpreted as to its actual meaning and intent by the Supreme Court.

Hopefully, once the justices have done the right thing by Jefferson, Washington, and the American people, the matter will not come up again for another 219 years, at least.

Niagara Falls Reporter (http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/column357.html)

geronimotwo
August 12, 2008, 10:27 PM
here is a link to the penal code governing nys firearm licensing.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS

then click on "PEN" (penal code), then "article 400", then "400.00".

zminer
August 19, 2008, 12:01 PM
I got back from my pistol license hearing a little while ago and I was surprised to see that it was essentially just a formality.

I was worried at first because there was one gentleman called right before me who was there for a pistol license as well and the judge asked him several questions because he said he was applying in order to get a security job, as some kind of a cash carrier. He insisted that he needed to demonstrate to potential employers that he had a pistol license before he could apply for the job, whereas the judge said that he would need to show proof that he HAD the job first (not simply say that he was intending to apply for it) before she would issue the license. So she hassled him a little bit, and finally said that in order to get the carry license he would need to submit additional paperwork backing up his claim that he needed the license first.

So I thought that I was in for a hassle, but it really wasn't anything at all. Once the judge got to me, she asked whether I was asking for the full, unrestricted permit or just for target shooting and hunting. I thought about asking for the unrestricted permit, but three things came to mind. First, my pistol license class instructor said that asking for an unrestricted carry permit throws up red flags and can cause you not to get your license at all. Second, the judge had given the previous guy a hassle about needing a license for a documentable reason (a job), whereas I have no documentable need (in her eyes) to carry a handgun concealed. Third, this process has been so long, and I want to get the license as quickly as possible, and if I want to attempt to get the unrestricted license, I know I can petition later for the limitations to be removed.

So, I said I wanted it only for target shooting and hunting. The judge noted that she had my application and background check paperwork on file from the police department, and then said they would get back to me soon. No questions about my application, or my background, or anything like that. I talked to her for all of three minutes, including the swearing in.

So, in some ways it was good, but in other ways it was a letdown. I envy the people in this thread that have posted from inside NY that their counties are essentially shall-issue, and give unrestricted permits. Today's trip to City Hall was basically a waste of my time, to get a less-than-ideal license. And some people may argue that I should have pressed the issue of the unrestricted license, but I say that - for now - having a restricted license is better than having no license.

yourang?
August 19, 2008, 01:17 PM
dont give up hope

i think that after a certain amount of time has passed, you can
submit a letter to the judge so that it can be "upgraded" to the
full carry (unrestricted) but, of course, there is on guarantee
that the judge will grant it

you should check with other people who have the ltc (license to carry)
in your county.....(other members of the local gun/rifle/sportsman club)

also, the permit clerk can be a wealth of information too....especially
on how to word the letter to the judge and how long you have to wait
before you write that letter

it might be six months or a year, but if you have behaved during that
time, you may possibly be granted a full carry license

now....it is just waiting for the paperwork to go through

good luck!

vtoddball
August 19, 2008, 02:33 PM
Cartman - I don't believe it has been upheld that Heller constitutes a right to carry.


That's true, but in NY state you can't even own a handgun without a permit, so by denying you a permit, they are also denying you the right to own the gun.

P.O.2010
August 19, 2008, 06:07 PM
New York City is like a different world compared to the rest of the state as it relates to gun laws. Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester counties are little better and even the best areas still fall under the so-called assault weapons ban and other restrictions.

New York will not recognize the right to keep and bear arms until it is forced to do so in no uncertain terms by a federal court. Gun control is as entrenched in the five boroughs of New York City as segregation was in the Deep South in 1930. If Heller is successfully used as a springboard for incorporation via the 14th Amendment then we have a very real possibility of having Penal Law section 400 overturned on Constitutional grounds. In New York State, as was mentioned earlier by another poster, you must have a permit just to touch a firearm, otherwise it's a class D violent felony carrying mandatory incarceration. The licensing system in New York City is specifically designed to deny as many people as possible and crush the right to keep and bear arms. Should the system ever come up for review its long history of corruption and lack of objective standards (they keep changing and being famous helps) will be its downfall.

The best that New Yorkers can do at this point is continue to fight a holding action until help arrives from the outside. Make no mistake, without outside intervention the Second Amendment will never be recognized by NYC or NYS as a whole.

mrreynolds
August 19, 2008, 06:19 PM
"P.O.2010" ain't that the truth...

Rokyudai
August 19, 2008, 06:27 PM
Good grief!

Please, please let me exercise my rights, my liege!

It sounds like they are doing fine in wearing everyone down.... (Ok, I'll settle for less than what I deserve).

I'm sorry but I am frustrated for you. That is despicable. They are causing a guy to possibly be out a job and you have to probably make yet another future trip there to get your 2nd A permission slip "upgraded"..... :fire::cuss::fire:

P.O.2010
August 19, 2008, 07:16 PM
The culture of antipathy that exists towards firearms in New York City is hard to describe to anyone who hasn't experienced it, particularly those who have lived in gun friendly states their entire lives. Comparing gun control in NYC to Jim Crow laws in the South is about as close as I can come to an exact comparison. The hatred of firearms in NYC is strikingly similar to racism in that they are both equally irrational and despicable. The average city resident is both afraid of firearms and ignorant at the same time. This isn't a coincidence. It is so difficult to obtain a legal firearm, much less find a place to practice with one, in New York City that most law abiding citizens have never handled a firearm unless they've left the city. And many never do. Because they have no practical experience with firearms many in NYC are ignorant of how firearms work and what they can and cannot do. This ignorance leads to misunderstanding and fear. People believe whatever the politicians, like Bloomberg, tell them because they have nothing else to guide them. Marksmanship is as foreign to most New York City residents as the practice of obstetrics.

I lived in New York for twenty years and I have also had the pleasure of living in Georgia for a few years. The difference between the two states is like night and day when it comes to firearms. I received my GA permit from a courthouse adjacent to a cow pasture and some old railroad tracks. The whole process took less than sixty days, was non-adversarial and it turned out that I was only the 16th person in the county to have received a permit. Sparsely populated indeed. At no time was I disrespected or treated badly and the courthouse staff (all two of them) went out of their way to be friendly and helpful.

Contrast that with New York City where you go to One Police Plaza, which houses NYPD Headquarters, and stand, hat in hand like a beggar, waiting for your turn to come so that you can ask permission to maybe, at some point in the future, keep one handgun in your apartment. And by the way, your permit is only good for two years and costs over $300. Of course, if there's even a minute problem with the paperwork or you can't take off from work for the third time to see the "investigator" you get denied. Back to square one, start all over again.

The sad thing is that during my time in New York City I lived through multiple riots and some of the worst crime I've ever seen. There's nothing like moving into a building and on your first day finding out that your next door neighbor has just been murdered (strangled in the bathtub) by a junkie looking to steal her televsion set. While living in New York City I was stabbed, beaten, subject to multiple robbery and burglary attempts and had one individual try to forcibly sodomize me. Funny thing is, I have yet to suffer a repeat of that in Georgia. Interesting, huh.

I apologize if I have digressed. My point is simple. Let the original poster's experience be a warning. Licensing and registration are never simple, never amount to "common sense regulation" and, most of all, never constitute a "reasonable restriction" on the right to keep and bear arms. There was a time in New York City when one didn't need a permit to own a rifle or a shotgun and when a pistol permit was easy to come by. Not anymore. Given enough time your county/city/state can, and will, end up the same way if you let it. Incorporation is going to be a very big and very important fight. Winning that fight is the only way that hotbeds of gun control (such as NY, NJ, MA, CA etc) can be defused. Change will not come from within. The situation as it relates to RKBA has only gotten worse in NY and NYC in particular, not better. And that trend doesn't look like it will be reversing itself any time soon.

And that's a real shame.

Speedo66
August 19, 2008, 07:40 PM
I think you should note that HR218 which gives retired peace/police officers the right to carry in any state also says that the retired officer has to be trained annually with their ex-duty gun by his or her ex-department.

That is why NYPD will not honor HR218, because they will not train their retired officers annually.

The NYS agency I work for, although we have our own training academy, also has made no mention of training us annually when we retire.

Unless it can be made a contractual obligation, it just ain't going to happen.

There is no benefit to the agency, but there is a major reason not to. That is, if they train you, you can bet your a$$ that if you shoot someone, they (or their heirs/survivors) , in addition to sueing you, will sue NYC or NYS or which ever dept. trained you.
Seeing as how NY is probably one of the most litigious states in the nation, I'm sure the depts. do not want to go there.

I can get a carry permit when I retire, free of charge, but I will no longer be indemnified by the state (or be trained by them).

ihatesnow
August 19, 2008, 08:18 PM
I've never heard of having to go before a judge.

I'm about to apply in Erie county. Any advice for obtaining an unrestricted CCW is greatly appreciated.

I should just move.

Rokyudai
August 19, 2008, 08:37 PM
Native New Yorker here for 27 years before I moved. When I turned 21, I applied for my NYS Pistol Permit (not NYC's version).

It took 9 months to the day of applying but ultimately did receive an unrestricted (not sure if there was a distinction between licenses at the time).

zminer
September 8, 2008, 07:48 PM
Quick update on this: it's been almost three weeks since my hearing and I haven't gotten any paperwork in the mail. I was tempted to call the civil court, but decided to call the county clerk instead, since they're actually the ones who administrate the issuance of the licenses once they've passed through the legal gobbledegook. The lady I spoke with was quite receptive to my question. She tacitly agreed that three weeks sounded like a long time, since the judge said it would be a few days. She gave me her name and direct phone number and told me to call back on Friday if I hadn't heard anything by then, and she would call the court for me. The county clerk's office has, by far, been the most helpful group of civil servants throughout this entire process, whereas everyone else has been indifferent or even slightly hostile.

ctdonath
September 8, 2008, 11:55 PM
What's the difference between "restricted" and "unrestricted?" What is it restricted to/by?
In NY law, the judge issuing the pistol permit can revoke the permit at ANY time for ANY reason (including right now, for no reason). A "restricted" permit is the judge letting you know that if you are ever caught using the permit outside the restrictions s/he adds to the permit, s/he will revoke the permit.

This leads to a curious legal fact: a restricted permit is, by law, a pistol permit and has no legal restrictions per se - only an indication of why the judge may choose to revoke it. Ergo, you CAN carry outside those restrictions (I'm not recommending it, just explaining the legal mumbo-jumbo), and if you're caught you will (should) not be criminally prosecuted ... you may very well lose the permit (with its own nasty problems), but until then you're legal to carry at large.

jlday70
September 9, 2008, 10:57 AM
I've never heard of having to go before a judge.

I'm about to apply in Erie county. Any advice for obtaining an unrestricted CCW is greatly appreciated.

I should just move.

My advice is move to Chautauqua County and apply there. From what I know about Erie county good luck on an unrestricted permit.

blackcash88
September 9, 2008, 02:13 PM
Wow, even libtarded CT isn't that bad.

mzinformd
September 11, 2008, 10:33 PM
Hi. I have a question. I am in the process of applying for a pistol permit in suffolk county. I wanted to know if anyone knows whether or not they do background checks on significant others? If so, would a criminal history on the part of a significant other mean you wouldn't get a permit?

blackcash88
September 12, 2008, 08:35 AM
No, it wouldn't.

gym
September 12, 2008, 11:50 AM
Fl2760, Same here I had a NYC carry for 23 yrs. Now live in FL, for 16yrs, at the time I had my carry in New York City, and not being a LEO, I had to surrender my license when I sold my business. Which was really bad news, but I had my 2 pistols sent to a Police Captain in Jupiter, and got my Fl CCW in 3 months, as far as the gent who is going for the interview, if it is anything like it was when I went for mine, you should be done in 10-20 minutes. Make sure you study the equal force and deadly force, scenarios as one or both of them will most likelly come up. I recieved an answer in a few days, even though they said up to 90 days, and the officer gave me a pretty good inclanation of how I did, by his body language and tone. Good luck, and try to remain as relaxed as you can. Sorry for not reading the second page, I would wait the full 90 days, before attempting to contact them. The concensus at 1 PP has always been skewed in not giving out permits when possible. This is from my own experiences with them. as far as the poster above me, chances are unless the charges were droped or it is unlikelly that you can get a license with a person convicted of a felony, or depending on what the disposition of the charges were. It is probablly because the person is not allowed to be in a residence where there is a firerm. Call the county offices and they will tell you.

Caliban
September 12, 2008, 11:53 AM
whoa, how did you get a carry license in nyc without being leo??? please share your secret!

Ohen Cepel
September 12, 2008, 11:56 AM
Good luck.

Reading this just fills me with dread about my pending move there. Will go from toting a machine gun daily to not being trusted having my own pistols in my possession:fire:

I should have fought harder to stay in the South!

NonConformist
September 12, 2008, 12:16 PM
Its sad we even have to go through such crap when we already have the right to bear arms. Its part of the 2A.

America, where'd it go? :(

GlockGirl4
September 12, 2008, 12:44 PM
I live in niagara county in ny.
i am going for my 3rd interview today. this time it is with the judge.
wish me luck.. and wow ny does make it hard to get your permit.
i have been waiting for my approval for a year and a half already.

april

any advise for my court meeting today???

gym
September 12, 2008, 12:50 PM
Caliban,To answer your question, I applied in the early seventies, if you met the requirements for carrying $5000 per day, and you were the one, who made the night deposits and carried the cash, (credit cards were just starting to get popular), and in my business I carried and needed to prove that I carried a minum or $5000 per deposit with a letter from the Bank Manager, along with my accountant. Plus tax records and a series of identy docs, It was pretty common for retail merchants, to be able to get a ccw,especially if you had to pick up and drop off at odd hours like late at night and weekends. Now I heard that the money factor has been raised to $50,000, in cash, which would make it very rare, due to the credit cards, and checks, that retailers now take in. The year before I got mine, you were still able to go to central booking, the 112 Queens and get it done from there. Once you had it you had it. I left in the mid nintys. Times have changed.

Caliban
September 12, 2008, 01:01 PM
thanks for the reply. yeah the standards have definitely changed, it's nearly impossible now. the new requirement for ccw is that you have to prove that your life is in constant danger, which means that even if you regularly carry huge sums of cash, they might still deny you. i've heard reports of people who make large night deposits getting denied, just because they've never actually been targeted by anybody. it seems you're only allowed to ccw after it's too late!

the one exception is celebrities. donald trump, howard stern, robert deniro, all have current nyc ccw. like people who travel with bodyguards are the ones who need the guns! ridiculous.

zminer
September 12, 2008, 09:42 PM
I finally got the license today, three and a half weeks after my court date. But I'm excited that the process is complete (well, except for the unspecified time before the paperwork is processed so that I can officially add my first pistol to the license). It's actually beginning to sound like I got off easy - everybody I've talked to in the gun shops says that it's been typical to experience a delay of 6-12 months in Albany County. To get a 3 month turnaround time is almost unheard of.

Speaking of things going badly ... GlockGirl4, I can't believe they've called you for three interviews! Who has been summoning you, and what the heck have they been asking?

As for what to say, it's too late for today, but I recommend just being as honest as you can. Obviously you can pass a background check if you're attempting to get a firearm, so there's nothing wrong with you that should keep you from getting one. Just answer questions politely and concisely, and it's hard for things to go wrong.

RDak
September 13, 2008, 08:22 AM
Good going zminer!! :)

SCKimberFan
September 13, 2008, 08:26 AM
i also said that i have seen rabid animals and always saw
the need to have some protection for that, while not trying
to sound like some kind of game warden with a job to do
(if you know what i mean)

most counties dont want to hear anything about self defense
so i would not bring that up at all, if you can avoid it

Doesn't your 1st statement contradict the 2nd? It is self defense from 'rabid animals'. :scrutiny:

wnycollector
September 13, 2008, 08:28 AM
I reside in niagara county, and for all intents and purposes it is "shall issue" here. the average time from dropping off your application to getting your unrestricted permit is less than 2 months:)

wnycollector
September 13, 2008, 08:33 AM
i am going for my 3rd interview today. this time it is with the judge.

I have NEVER heard about judge interviews in niagara county before! My wife and I both got out permits a few years ago...and she only did a phone interview w/ a NFPD detective!!!

GlockGirl4
September 17, 2008, 09:49 AM
i met with the judge clerk in niagara county. lockport bldg. he approved me but restricted it to target shooting and obviously home protection. what a joke! i am a stay at home mom, what do they think i am gonna do!!! yet teenagers walk around with them at the local parks that i take my 2 yr old to play. its so aggervating.

Blackbeard
September 17, 2008, 09:56 AM
Is this a permit to purchase or to carry? How does a purchase permit restrict what you can do with it? What would you be able to do if he hadn't "restricted" your permit?

GlockGirl4
September 17, 2008, 10:04 AM
dont know other then i thought my county was going to be easy... what a joke. not easy at all. they must pick and choose who to make it easy for.. my 4 references... 3 were cops.. and like i said i am a stay at home mom of 4 daughters... yet i can only take it to the range and home. what a joke!

GlockGirl4
September 17, 2008, 10:10 AM
i applied for carry concealed permit.
cant purchase a handgun without a permit here in ny.

Maelstrom
September 17, 2008, 10:43 AM
I was rejected for my pistol permit when one of my three "character witnesses" didn't send in her letter.

The state kept my $165, of course. They never notified me either. One day, many months after putting in the paperwork, I called and was told I had been rejected.

I actually considered attempting a lawsuit to at least get my money back for "services not rendered" but figured that would be a lost cause.

GlockGirl4
September 17, 2008, 10:54 AM
that is a shame and you are right that would be a loss cause getting the money back. i am just frustrated when the bad-- can carry and legal -- cant. what a shame.

yourang?
September 17, 2008, 11:23 AM
sorry to hear that, maelstrom

the clerk i was dealing with in the permit office was very smart
to remind me to bug my letter writers to complete the task at hand
and i am glad i did

i found that one of my recommenders decided not to write and
if i hadnt checked, i would have had the same thing happen to me

so many road blocks!

dont know if you can "appeal" the process, but you could at least
go and talk to the clerk in the permit office....they know lots about
how to navigate the system

they really do try to help, in spite of how difficult the process is

blackcash88
September 17, 2008, 11:49 AM
If it's only a minor offense to carry if the permit doesn't say so, I'd carry anyway. It's not like you're going to get a felony or anything and if you need to use it for self-defense? I think that would be the least of my worries at that point.

Maelstrom
September 17, 2008, 12:28 PM
It's been about seven years now. But it did (sorta) work out in the end. Now I legal carry wherever I want without a permit.

All I have to do is fight with crackheads and get spit on every now and then.

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 17, 2008, 01:27 PM
Yes, we can.

All these hoops make me glad the Utah process is so simple. It's a shame we have to get permits at all, but still, I feel for you guys who have to do this. I'll have to link to this thread when people grumbled about having to find a notary.

bflobill_69
September 17, 2008, 01:33 PM
I never even bothered with applying for a pistol permit when I lived in Western New York...
...looking back I really should have

Bflobill_69

Rokyudai
September 17, 2008, 01:33 PM
Black Beard,

In NYS, you can only purchase a handgun while in possession of a pistol permit. There is not a separate 'purchase permit'. Just wanted to clarify for ya.

I'm sorry Glockgirl that they have made you jump through hoops for that nonsense. I hope you do attempt to repeal the decision or see if some 3rd party/arbitration can be assembled. It just sounds like an organized ring of dults up there.

ETA: Just make sure (God forbid) should you ever have to defend yourself, that you staple a target to the bad guy's body before you call the cops....sheesh.

ihatesnow
September 17, 2008, 01:42 PM
Does anyone know If restrictions put on by Erie county on a pistol permit are only for that county?

blackcash88
September 17, 2008, 01:42 PM
ETA: Just make sure (God forbid) should you ever have to defend yourself, that you staple a target to the bad guy's body before you call the cops....sheesh.

Make sure the holes match up!

Caliban
September 17, 2008, 02:09 PM
In NYS, you can only purchase a handgun while in possession of a pistol permit. There is not a separate 'purchase permit'. Just wanted to clarify for ya.

that sounds nice. in nyc you need the license AND the purchase permit. and after you buy it, the cops get to inspect it!

5-25 Handgun Purchase Authorizations. (a) The licensee may not obtain a handgun
without prior written authorization from the Division Head, License Division. This
authorization shall be provided in the nature of a "Handgun Purchase Authorization"
form.

...

(6) Once the licensee has purchased the handgun, s/he shall return to the
License Division -- Room 152, One Police Plaza, New York, New York 10038, within 72
hours to have the handgun and safety locking device inspected. The handgun may not be
utilized before it has been inspected by License Division personnel and entered on the
license.

blackcash88
September 17, 2008, 02:14 PM
Is it even possible for a person to get a non-resident NY permit?

Rokyudai
September 17, 2008, 03:15 PM
Does anyone know If restrictions put on by Erie county on a pistol permit are only for that county?

I can say with a high degree of certainty that each county behaves differently with regard to how they interpret the process of granting a NYS PP

In Cattaraugus County (in WNY) you set up a time to go to the pistol permit clerk (last I knew it to be Marga Arena whom is a sweet VERY knowledgeable on the process), get your finger prints, picture, pay your fees, and then she submits the app.. At the time time (about 10 years ago), I had no interviews to get a CC 'addition'. I just waited 9 months for the permit. Picked it up at the Little Valley Court office. Voila.

ADKWOODSMAN
September 17, 2008, 03:27 PM
My wife received her permit in Clinton county NY. She waited seven months and only met with the NYState Police interviewer once. Hers in restricted to hunting, fishing and target shooting.

About 4 years ago my daughter and her hubby received theirs in Franklin county and were unrestricted for CC.

Now Franklin County restricts as Clinton County does.

My permit (1968) was unrestricted and when we went credit card type permit a restriction was NOT added to mine because of its age.

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