[Detritus]

Having decided that my next non-military centerfire rifle i get will be a .308 Savage 10FP, which will at least a few times a year be used to shoot a 600 yard, prone match at my local range. i have the following questions regarding scoping said rifle

first off what type of magnifcation do i need to be looking for to adequately SEE the target at 600? IS a 9-power scope good enough or do i need to be looking for something in the double digits?? not trying to compensate for poor vision or anything i simply want to be able to tell what i'm doing.

second i am wondering if there is a tip-off or other QD style of ring and base system out there that is repeatable enough that i could mount, boresight, and dial in a "600" as well as "normal use" scope for this rifle? It just seems that if such a system DOES exist and is readily available, that it would be better in the end to have a scope pre-dialed in to the at least approximate settings needed for shooting out to 600 yards. and then have a 100yard-zeroed "normal use" scope for the days when i'm NOT trying to hit a target that from the firing line looks like my pinkie nail. And be able to switch between the two as needed.

I may have more questions to ask afer these two have been answered but since those two are sort of linked to any others i might have, i'll leave it as is for now.

As always, thank you for your time, patience, and any information you can give me.

Sincerely,
Detritus

[uglymofo]

10x is about as high a power as is needed; some shooters use up to 14x, but mirage is a big consideration at higher magnifications above ~8 or 10x. Even with a 10x, the mirage will make it seem like you're shooting at a flag fluttering in a 10mph wind on hot days at the 600yd line.

Don't know about 10FP rails, but ARMS rails and mounts (#18's) on an M1A have worked very well for me. I've never R&R'd the scope and gone directly to 600; as I recall, I've certainly R&R'd and shot at 400M silhouettes, and been on, but I don't know about 600. My guess is, you'd be fine, as my 100 R&R results are within .5 MOA.

There's no real reason to change scopes to go from 600 to 100 or vice versa, unless you wanna 'benchrest' at 100 and use a big 32x or 40x. Whatever you buy that'll resolve at 600 should be good enough for your shortrange work.

[Detritus]

Just for the record i am entirely at the early "mental planning" stage of this proposed project, so i am still rather open to suggestion guidance etc if any of you nice folks have better ideas or have been down this road before......

I currently have an e-mail into the A.R.M.S. tech support/info folks asking if any of thier products are "savage compatible" (when i browsed the site everything seemd to be either AR or M-1A/14/21 related)

been rethinking the two scopes thing but i still want the option if available to put some "simply decent" scope on the gun for "puttering around at 300 or less" and then when i practice for or shoot a 600yrd match, put a higher end unit in place that reduces out as much as possible the chances of a "bad equipment" screwup.
though a GOOD target turret equipped 3-10x40 would probably be just as well for both uses......

and if i DO decide to just suck it up and get a single scope i'll probablyt get Leupold bases again (last Savage i bought was topped with leupold base and rings) though if anyone has better suggestions there i'm open :D

[uglymofo]

You haven't mentioned your budget; if it's not financially objectionable, I'd suggest looking at Premier Reticles for a Gen II scope

https://206.131.255.85/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PR&Category_Code=VXIII

Dick has an excellent rep, and can steer you on mounts, too. I personally don't care for Leupold; I think their glass is fuzzy, and my lone warranty experience (for a Leupold Gilmore Red Dot) was aggravating and expensive. However, most Leupold users swear by them. I'm partial to the Burris Black Diamond and any Nightforce. Either glass is 'way sharper than Leupold; the Nightforce is of course, another price level (and deservedly so; next to it, the Leupold is a toilet paper-roll tube); I've found the Burris warranty service to be exemplary. I recommend the Leupold line because of "majority opinion" that I've culled from the 'net. (That's not to say I've seen any more complaints about Burris' nor Nightforce's warranty service.) Any one of the three OEM's will offer a single scope that'll easily fit your 100-600yd requirements.

[Detritus]

You haven't mentioned your budget; if it's not financially objectionable,......

actually the likes of the Premeir Reticles Gen IIs are part of the reason i want to the option to swap out the scope.. b/c currently they ARE a bit out fo my near future (next 12-18 months) price range.:(

knowing my budget constraints, my "scope fund" for getting this project "off and shooting" on time (ie ready by Jan or Feb) tops out at around $400-450 absolute max (the $535 PR wants for the "4.5X14 40MM AO tactical" is just slightly out of reach :banghead: ) . the budget thereafter will hopfully increase as the "gun stuff" fund is replenished etc.


i guess the best way to describe what my intentions, budget limits, etc, with regards to scoping this project, are at the moment, would be to say what I was thinking of doing. had in mind scope wise.

to begin with and to use as a "messing around scope" i was thinking of getting a Bushnell 3-9x40 AO possibly with target knobs (been awhile sincce i've scop shopped), seeing as how i've had good luck with Bushnell, adn i would not be afraid of "mucking it up" as i clutzily go about re-learing long range riflery.
THEN as the funds become available my intention was to get something in a higher end 3.5-10x40 AO (the Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10 M1 LR looks good esp since it has a side mounted paralax/focus adjustment) or fixed 10x40 AO (if, $1,200+ wasn't so out of my league [for the moment] the Mark4 of those specs would look REAL nice), with Target knobs.

maybe i'm over thinking it, don't know. thanks for your input though it IS helping :)

[Detritus]

do you know if there is a REASON Premier has lower prices on their custom reticuled versions than Midway has on teh same scope with a factory standard reticule???
if you stick to prices each charges for the factory crosshairs, there is a $70 difference, MORE than enough to offset shipping charges etc .

just wondered, maybe it's time to price em over at SWFA as well.......

[hksw]

IIRC, Premier Reticles is one of, if not the, shop that Leupold goes to for repairing and modding their scopes if they cannot do it internally. I'm sure that they get a huge break in prices for Leupold scopes sold by them, much bigger breaks than mainstream retailers like Midway, Cabelas, etc.

Edit : Forgot about Midways dealer pricing. Taking that into consideration, their prices are actually pretty dang good. I'm sure it's the same at Brownells.

[Detritus]

Forgot about Midways dealer pricing. Taking that into consideration, their prices are actually pretty dang good.

i KNEW there was a reason i wanted to open that gunshop!!:banghead: LOL makes me wonder if i should find out if it would be cheaper to see if and what kind of deal i could get if i tried to get teh dealer i buy the rifle through to order up the scope i want..... (i am assuming [very optimisticly i know] that dealer pricing from midway or Brownells, reduces the cost such that a dealer can sell a scope for close to the same or slightly higher price as Midway and make a profit that makes the scope worthwhile to stock???)

much thought, much though.......

[uglymofo]

I'm talking strickly outta my @ss now--I wouldn't go Bushnell unless you went with the 4200, and even at that I'd be hesitant. Bushnell doesn't have a great quality name, and you'll take a beating selling the 3-9x40 AO (if you did attempt to sell it). That's assuming you buy it NIB, and that my impressions of Bushnell's midrange optics are correct--that they're not well thought of, and not highly sought out in the 'used' market.

I'd suggest maybe a used Tas..Trash....Tasco SS 10x or a Weaver Grand Slam. You can find the Trashco sometimes on AR15.com; they seem to sell fairly regularly there for around $200-250. SWFA doesn't have 'em anymore. I've heard good things about the Grand Slam (~$350 NIB), and it seems to sell fairly easily on AR15.com too, but of course, anything'll sell if the price is low enough. I'd just suggest filling the 'temporary' scope niche with a used scope that has a good manufacturer's warranty. (now, that may eliminate Trashco, because of course Bushnell (?) bought them out, and I haven't any idea about the new warranty pledge.) But, if you buy "used", you'll get in for the minimum dollar with a warrantied product that you won't take a severe beating on when you sell. Even a used Leupold Vari 2 in 3-9 could hold you over, and you should be able to get out from under it for even money.

I'll end with the caveat that this is just me, free-forming...I've never owned a Weaver, have only looked through a Tasco SS (it was surprisingly clear and bright for a Tasco), and can't remember my first scope, a Bushnell (when I was a real greenhorn).

[hksw]

Detritus,

Just get yourself a C&R license and you'll get dealer pricing on non-gun, non-C&R items.

[hksw]

...non-gun...

Meaning not completely assembled or a receiver.