The cruelest game of turn-about.


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The Tourist
August 7, 2008, 12:39 PM
Recently we had another thread about mental illness. As is the custom here, there was a discussion of what the correct actions should be based on our perceptions of this condition.

Several weeks ago, I had a candid conversation with hso on my involvement with THR. It was a very broad spectrum of topics, but most centered on what I can do here, and what it costs me.

It should come as no surprise to you that I grind my molars when I see a topic marked--in any way--"mental illness." As I have often freely admitted, I was diagnosed with Bipolar II. You'll notice that I did not use the phrase "suffer from."

Now, if you've read my posts you'll know that I get into debates for fun, but also because I've lived through the very aspects or defined history of the topic. And believe it or not, I do try to be polite, even when taking a passionate alternative view. I must do so here.

It doesn't matter if you're trying to be honest and forthright, a hobbyist forum is the worst place to discuss this topic. The anecdotal evidence is spotty, the understanding of the illness(s) is more than often poorly portrayed, and the examples used are more detrimental than of any use. There never seems to be a psychiatrist or a cognitive therapist here to untangle the untruths.

Among the members here, there are collectors, pistol guys, revolver guys, IPSC competitors, shotgun owners of all flavors, LEOs, gunsmiths, and yes, the shallow end of our gene pool.

Imagine your concerns and feelings if everytime someone mentioned their admitted involvement in the shooting sports that ten posts would appear at every turn linking gun owners to Aryan survivalists. And you know as well as I do that this group really exists. For example, several years ago a group took over the town of Tigerton Dells here in my home state of Wisconsin.

You cannot argue that such groups exist, but you are troubled because they do not represent the real spectrum of gun owners. On my side of the fence, this is exactly what happens.

Are there patients who quit taking their meds, go off on a mania, steal a weapon and hurt innocent people? Are there deeply troubled schizophrenics tortured by imaginary voices? Of course there are such individuals. However, we seldom tell the tale of the tens of millions of folks who have been given a second chance due to the very real involvement of specialists.

A patient trembling and crying in a doctor's office is no threat to you, nor will he ever be so. He's seeking answers. He wants the same life you enjoy. Trust me, been there, done that. It's not a weakness, or defect or one of a dozen misconceptions. In those tens of millions of examples, it's a problem with serotonin. Coupled with cognitive therapy, there's a bright future.

I admit, I march to the beat of different drummer. Yikes, I was one of the thousands of art majors to grace the campus of UW Madison. To that end, should we enclose all bikers in concentration camps--I'm one of them, as well. What about guys who have a command of language and trounce you in debates? Guilty as charged, I was also an English minor in college.

The condition of BP II is a only a small sliver of who I am. And yet we have people discussing my group as a whole in terms of "insanity" and the involvement of law enforcement. Great googley, moogley, the State Trooper down my block has PTSD, we have the same shrink.

I'll asking for one thing--think before you type. Imagine that each one your posts was read and digested by 20 bipolars. They then publically questioned your involvement in the Aryan Brotherhood, your race, your sexual preference and even your veracity simply because of what you said.

Unless it involves the loss of enumerated rights or your conduct to another suffering individual, I'm not going to answer any thrread with the phrase "mental illness." Why should I upset myself knowing full well there's little if any useable information.

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gripper
August 7, 2008, 03:41 PM
I hope you are doing OK...any kind of health problem;be it physical or otherwise definitely can add to the weigh tof your daily load-out.
I think yo will find more people here than you think who have both experience and a certain level of understanding RE that particular issue.Also;be aware that just as ther are many antis who like to broad brush all of us here in terms of racial orideological intolerance;ther are also those who would say that because we care about the issue here ( and maintain skill/awaremenss/competency) that THAT represents a sign of mental illness.

ilbob
August 7, 2008, 03:55 PM
I feel for you.

There are a lot of people in the same boat as you who are not a threat to anyone else, but just have a few issues. As long as they don't impact me negatively, I don't care a whole lot what you do. You can bay at the moon for all I care, as long as it does not wake me up.

If you start to do things to me that make me concerned, and I am unable to deal with the problem myself, I am going to get someone involved who can. That may end up being a family member, the cops, or some mental health agency.

It doesn't matter if you're trying to be honest and forthright, a hobbyist forum is the worst place to discuss this topic. The anecdotal evidence is spotty, the understanding of the illness(s) is more than often poorly portrayed, and the examples used are more detrimental than of any use. There never seems to be a psychiatrist or a cognitive therapist here to untangle the untruths.The problem is if you have 3 shrinks involved, you will get three different answers. I don't think anyone here is trying to suggest a specific treatment or diagnosis. Most often the serious answers are something like the guy is nuts, you can't do anything about it, get someone involved who can. I don't know what other answer you could possibly expect.

JohnBT
August 7, 2008, 04:07 PM
I don't think there is a 'right' place to discuss mental illness. I think it should be discussed everywhere and not hidden away where only the professionals and patients can find it. Education and enlightenment of the man in the street, the so-called common man, won't happen without ongoing discussion. Make that ongoing public discussion.

I've worked with individuals with disabilities for the entire 34 years since I finished grad school and I've seen public awareness and attitudes change substantially for the better.

John

exar
August 7, 2008, 04:13 PM
Unless it involves the loss of enumerated rights or your conduct to another suffering individual, I'm not going to answer any thrread with the phrase "mental illness." Why should I upset myself knowing full well there's little if any useable information.

So, basically you're asking us to be much more PC and censor ourselves. Correct?:confused:
Or are you just saying that if mental illness is part of our discussion you won't participate?
BTW, how is this on topic? I get the feeling from reading your thread that you are just venting. Did someone insult you?

doc2rn
August 7, 2008, 04:16 PM
As I also have BP type II I would only like to correct one part. You have a dopaminergic imbalance. You block seratonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, via medication, to elevate mood.

The Tourist
August 7, 2008, 04:16 PM
Despite the polite comments, we do have bigger fish to fry. This is but an example.

For example, after I wrote this thread and posted it, I found that there was also a thread entitled, "Think before you type."

I had not seen that thread before.

But there is one thing I have learned about THR. We respect and protect our forum, and we get pretty uppity if we suspect collusion, impropriety or flat out rudeness.

Added to that, I've noticed in life that if but a few guys notice something, then there are dozens who feel the same and sit silent. Clearly, some of the established THR members here are sensing a loss in decorum. I know I do.

This is a hobbyist forum, not a medical clinic. My diagnosis and the application of my enumerated rights is flatly none of your concern--even under the protection I enjoy by HIPAA.

I would suggest you pull up your (the editorial "you") posts and check your verbiage and tone. Are you getting a tad loose with your conduct?

As I've said, I like it here. I sense something. I think others feel it, as well.

As I also have BP type II I would only like to correct one part.

That's kind of the point. Overall we are talking simply about conduct. Other that a sufferer or a doctor, do you think anyone else understands even one word you typed?

rantingredneck
August 7, 2008, 04:20 PM
I don't think there is a 'right' place to discuss mental illness. I think it should be discussed everywhere and not hidden away where only the professionals and patients can find it. Education and enlightenment of the man in the street, the so-called common man, won't happen without ongoing discussion. Make that ongoing public discussion.

I've worked with individuals with disabilities for the entire 34 years since I finished grad school and I've seen public awareness and attitudes change substantially for the better.

Indeed.

Attitudes and awareness have improved, but there is still work to be done. Interestingly enough I spent this afternoon and will spend all day tomorrow helping with Crisis Intervention Training for local law enforcement. Law Enforcement agencies taking an interest in identifying and properly responding to individual swith disabilities is a postive step forward.

The Tourist
August 7, 2008, 04:24 PM
rantingredneck, I believe that certain topics should be red-flagged here.

You see something on sexual preference, racial issues, hate groups, violence, etc., the mods should proof-read the thread immediately.

If I had my way, any thread marked "mental illness" would be locked. The handful of therapists and sufferers here can dispense info on those conditions and medical breakthoughs on PMs.

Drgong
August 7, 2008, 04:28 PM
I lost a former GF to mental illness, she suffered for years with it. We broke up and about six months later she made a bad choice.

Also, it was always her pet peeve that she could not own a firearm legally, as she could not pass NICS.

rantingredneck
August 7, 2008, 04:30 PM
Tourist,

I can see your point. I'm not necessarily advocating that we turn this into a forum dedicated to the topic, but it's a part of the overall human condition that we've tried as a society to ignore before. Didn't work out so well.

Saying that any mention of it at all should be locked is a bit extreme, IMO. I'm personally of the opinion that discussion and interaction leads to understanding.

You'll get the ill-informed participating in the discussion, which can be frustrating, but hopefully will lead to some personal growth for that person.

exar
August 7, 2008, 04:32 PM
That's kind of the point. Overall we are talking simply about conduct. Other that a sufferer or a doctor, do you think anyone else understands even one word you typed?

I'm not a sufferer or a doctor. Yes, I understand exactly what was said.

I sense something. I think others feel it, as well.

I sense something, as well. I sense you underestimating the intelligence of the crowd here on THR.

Thernlund
August 7, 2008, 04:36 PM
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. What's the point you're making (in 50 words or less)?

:confused:


-T.

Jeff White
August 7, 2008, 04:46 PM
This isn't really on topic here. It doesn't discuss a legal firearms issue. Try this topic over at APS.

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