Mosin Mods


PDA






CZ 42
August 7, 2008, 10:24 PM
I've got a M44 carbine, and I'd like to make it more useful and fun. Apart from the usual accurizing, refinishing, (scout) scope-mounting and cleaning-up, I'd like to try some less traditional changes. There was a picture posted somewhere here of a SBR mosin with AR furniture and an Aimpoint, and that's more the direction I wanna go. I already know that lopping off the barrel to 16", crowning, and muzzle-braking aren't problems, because my dad works in a machine shop. So let's hear some opinions, keeping in mind all the tools I've got access to:
1. Folding stock- is there a safe way to just saw off the original and hinge it?
2. Pistol grip- could it be bolted on like an AK grip, and right behind the trigger?
3. Can I saw off the forearm wood?
4. Who wants to test fire it? :evil:

If you enjoyed reading about "Mosin Mods" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Wedge
August 7, 2008, 10:51 PM
I sensed a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of crufflers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

If you're going to hack apart a M44, at least start with one that needs to be recrowned and has a stock that is in VERY rough shape.

Other than the scout scope, and "maybe" the barrel (if it actually needed to be recrowned), none of the other modifications do anything useful and in fact I think would reduce the utility of the rifle.

Joe Demko
August 7, 2008, 10:59 PM
Your gun, do as you wish with it. When you are done, though, the chances are that you will have turned a useable old carbine into a worthless POS.
If you really must make a joke gun that is punishing to shoot, why not start with a handi-rifle in .45-70? Then you'll be butchering a gun that is still in production.

esmith
August 7, 2008, 11:05 PM
Some people might want you to use an already poor shape mosin, but really, i don't care what you do. It's your gun, you paid for it, do what you want. Theres only been millions made of em.

I actually think that what that one guy on here did to his mosin was pretty cool, if you go through with this, the only thing i'd want you to do is show from start to finish, everything you do to the gun.

coyotehitman
August 7, 2008, 11:09 PM
I believe the M44's are designed to be fired with the bayonet extended and the sights are calibrated accordingly. You might use a 91/30 instead. Seems like you would be spending alot of time and money on an essentially worthless gun, though. I saw a 91/30 used as a patrol rifle that was shortened, scoped, and placed into an ATI stock. It didn't look too bad and if I felt like chopping one, this is what I would consider doing. I also saw a custom rifle based on the 91/30 action used in a sniper competition on tv. It was a strange looking gun to say the least.

AmishFury
August 7, 2008, 11:12 PM
even talking about doing this gets a nice BUBBA stamp on my mental image of you

IF there is no stopping this madness DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES chop any of the following M44s

1943
Tula
1946
1947
1948
"hex" receiver
laminate stock
non refurb
east german marked (1 in a triangle)
finnish marked (SA in a box)
non-russian manufacture

in other words an import marked 1944 or 1945 Izhevsk refurb with regular hardwood stock

i still advise against creating such an abomination

35 Whelen
August 7, 2008, 11:30 PM
Your gun, do as you wish with it. When you are done, though, the chances are that you will have turned a useable old carbine into a worthless POS.
<snip>

LOL How ironic...I thought he was trying to turn a worthless old POS into a useable carbine... I own an M-44 and in it's military guise, it's about as impractical and unuseable as any rifle I've ever owned. Enter Dr. Bubba.

CZ42, I bought an old rusty M44 with the intent of making it something practical. I started working on it last winter, but when the days get longer and warmer, I leave the depths of my shop and spend most of my time outside. As soon as it cools off and starts getting dark earlier, I'll finish the rifle. Here are some of the things I've done and plan to do:

1: the trigger job: 2, No Creep, Adjustable Mosin Trigger (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=50969&st=0&sk=t&sd=a/url)

2: I carefully filed down the right side of the reciever behind the bolt until that portion of the reciever was the same height front to back. I got this idea from pictures I saw of a Mosin super-duper target rifle that had been modified by the Finn's in such a manner.

3: I cut off the bolt handle and made a butterknife type handle to take its place.

4: I will be mounting a receiver type aperture sight on this rifle. Steps 2 & 3 will allow the bolt handle to slide under the sight when the bolt is worked.

5: I took the original front sight base, off, hacksawed off the ears, ground off the sight base, then turned it in my lathe until I could slip on a sight either off a 1903A3 Spingfield or off a Finnish M39. Either is a VAST improvement over the original Mosin sight, plus you can adjust your front sight so that your rear sight can be high enough to allow th bolt handle to clear.

6: Went to eBay and bought a Scout type scope mount that takes the place of the original rear sight leaf. Also purchased a handgun EER scope for the Scout mount.

When finished, I'll have a rifle that will be practical; a rifle that I can use day to day. When I do get back to work on it, I'll be writing an article complete with pictures, detailing all the modifications. Much like the sticky I did on the 2 trigger, only much more detail.

Sorry, can't help you with the tacticool stuff...I'm sort of a traditional guy:)

35W

Vaarok
August 7, 2008, 11:43 PM
Go buy a $50 Omega Weapons Systems T-53 and have fun.

jrfoxx
August 7, 2008, 11:53 PM
LOL How ironic...I thought he was trying to turn a worthless old POS into a useable carbine... I own an M-44 and in it's military guise, it's about as impractical and unuseable as any rifle I've ever owned. Enter Dr. Bubba.

Keep in mind, the things you did were to impove the sights, bolt, etcfor accuracy, which obviously IS an imrovement. However, the OP is talking about doing none of that other than a scope, and adding a folding stock, shortening the barell, and bolting on an AK pistol grip, none of which are really imporvements to the usefullness, utility, or accuracy of the gun.Thats why some were giving him a little flak for bubba-izing, whereas what you did was simply accurizing. Big difference.

Either way, everyone is free to do as they please with thier guns and thier money, so have a ball.I just dont think what the OP plans on doing is going to make the gun shoot better, handle better, be more accurate, more useful, or make him/her like it any more, IMHO.

I think the OP would be WAY happier with the rifle in the end by doing things like you did, as opposed to trying to turn a M44 into a tacticool, EBR looking thing.

Floppy_D
August 8, 2008, 12:11 AM
what's wrong with 46's?

AmishFury
August 8, 2008, 12:13 AM
considering production numbers for 44 and 45 where in the millions (each year) while 46-48 were all under 200,000 rifles each year

Drgong
August 8, 2008, 12:27 AM
My M44 is Hungarian..but sadly I could not save it before bubba got ahold of it...

KC0QGL
August 8, 2008, 01:12 AM
44 and 45 where in the millions (each year) while 46-48 were all under 200,000 rifles each year
My M44 is a 1944 and my wifes M44 is a 1946. The bolt on mine works a little better. Her bolt jams every 3-5 rounds. Mine only jams every 25-30 rounds. Both M44s are Russian.

yesit'sloaded
August 8, 2008, 01:32 AM
I hear adding a cupholder is nice. Look at RONE's thread.

spyder1911
August 8, 2008, 02:03 AM
Go buy a $50 Omega Weapons Systems T-53 and have fun.

Do they still have the T53? I looked on their website and couldnt find it.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 8, 2008, 03:32 AM
I. Would. Never. Do. That. To. A. Mosin. Ever.

Mp7
August 8, 2008, 03:47 AM
plz document all tuning steps!

(my personal project of building a ak-underfolder
patriot pistol has been on hold so far.)

(Anyone know where i can get the mounting part
for the underfolder, that goes on the gun - plz pm)

Cosmoline
August 8, 2008, 03:57 AM
I thought he was trying to turn a worthless old POS into a useable carbine... I own an M-44 and in it's military guise, it's about as impractical and unuseable as any rifle I've ever owned.

This sort of attitude really boggles my mind. If you view it as a worthless POS, please sell it off and get something you really want. You'll spend more on the mods than a new fully Americanized and modernized rifle would cost.

buttrap
August 8, 2008, 05:42 AM
If you are wanting to mod a 44 best idea is take the stock off and get a maul if you need a really really short fence post or a tent peg. They do just fine as is and most mods on the things just make a tent peg out of a good beater gun is all.

35 Whelen
August 8, 2008, 07:59 AM
This sort of attitude really boggles my mind. If you view it as a worthless POS, please sell it off and get something you really want. You'll spend more on the mods than a new fully Americanized and modernized rifle would cost.

That rifle is what I really want. I have plenty of modern hunting rifles. You see, I don't follow the typical run to the gunshop and buy a new gadget mentality. I get infinitely more satisfaction out of taking something that has no practical use, and turning it into something useful.

Lest ye think I turn military rifles into hideous pieces of garbage, here's the results from the first time I decided to do this:

Before:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/FR-8/FR-8.jpg

After:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/FR-8/FR-8-1.jpg

The Mauser above cost $140.

I paid $50 for the Mosin, so when finished with, I'll have less than $100 in it.

MP7, I will document each and every step.

35W

NCsmitty
August 8, 2008, 08:26 AM
If you indeed cut the barrel back to 16", you need to carry a small fire extinguisher for shooting in dry areas.

Ncsmitty

Jason M
August 8, 2008, 08:42 AM
I am in the process of refinishing my 91/30's stock, but that is it. No hacking things apart for me.

Wedge
August 8, 2008, 08:54 AM
35 Whelen. That rifle looks nice, handy and useful. Your plans for the M44 also will make the rifle much more useful. I will be looking forward to your M44 scout rifle setup.

However, in the OP's case, making a wooden hinged folding stock, pistol grip and hacking off most of the forend on a M44 would destroy any utility.

RonE
August 8, 2008, 11:01 AM
I used the modification recommended by 35 Whelen and not only did it work as he said it would, it was perhaps the best modification I made to my snipper rifle. Snipper Rifle: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=369278

I encourage you to go foreward with your plans, if things don't work out, you haven't lost much. Don't worry about destroying part of history, should you destroy something, everything left will have more value (you will be doing a favor for people that care about such things).

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 12:35 PM
Alright - for all you Mosin 'collectors' :barf: out there you should know mine is your run-of-the-mill, inaccurate, heavy, folding-bayonet equipped POS. I love to shoot it, I just don't like seeing the target afterwards. Why do people get flamed so much for talking about having fun with a -$100 rifle? I mean, this is basically THE gun to experiment with. It's the perfect starting platform. You don't feel bad about chopping it up, because the things were damn near just thrown together in Russia. The ammo is cheap, the gun isn't historically important- I mean, I paid $125 at a garage sale for it! Quit being so condescending! Now just tell me, what's wrong with the folding stock idea? Wouldn't it be cool, using the original wood (refinished, of course. looks horrible now) and extending LOP a bit? I'm thinking of a simplified Arsenal type folder. And as far as the grip goes, I wouldn't be bolting on an AK grip. It would be home, or shop-made, and molded to fit my hand. If this is done the way I want, it would be very subtle. The stock would be refinished, and tastefully shortened- is it wrong to hate the full wood barrel shroud thing? I guess I really just want to know, will the gun be safe to fire with the changes to the stock? I'm doing things to this rifle no matter what. Leaving it as it is seems wasteful and lazy to me.

Deer Hunter
August 8, 2008, 12:40 PM
THE gun to experiment with used to be a springfield 30-06. How many of those you see lieing around in original condition?

If you can't shoot it well as it is, what makes you think hacking it to pieces will help?

By all means, hack away though. It's your gun and by god you can do whatever you want with it. That's the beauty of freedom.

AmishFury
August 8, 2008, 12:43 PM
Alright - for all you Mosin 'collectors' :barf: out there

Quit being so condescending!

you first

again is it a plain hardwood stock 1944 or 1945 refurb? no finnish or east german marks?

esmith
August 8, 2008, 01:29 PM
What people are trying to say is that at one point in the future mosins will be hard to get. And by then people will view you stupid for taking one that wasn't already in horrible condition and making it different. However, the argument by comparing them to finnish mosins or garands is rather weak as mosins were manufactured at numbers close to 40 million. Garands were made to around 5 or 6 million, and finnish mosins i doubt even totaled the million mark. The numbers that the 1903 springfield were produced at also comes far short from the number of mosins built.

Even though i myself, don't want you hacking a some versions of an M44, i still stand by what i said that its your gun, do as you please.

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 01:45 PM
Sorry about the Mosin collector thing, but you know what I mean. Let's not turn this into another bubba vs. collector mosin thread, too many have been locked that way and no one gets anything out of it. For those that have seen the "Snipper rifle" thread by RonE, imagine his with a 16" muzzle braked barrel, scout mount with red dot or 3-9x pistol scope, nice-looking wood and a folder. But minus the barrel stabilizer and warning labels. I might even tiger stripe the wood with a torch or something.
And yes, it's a normal MN, not Finnish or marked interestingly or anything. Actually the whole thing is in pretty poor aesthetic shape with dings, poor bluing, and shellac (I hate shellac!), but it has a decent barrel as far as all the Mosins I've peered down go. I will be accurizing it, that's what I said from the beginning. But everyone knows how to do that.

gandog56
August 8, 2008, 02:01 PM
My 1948 Izzy laminated M44 is a joy to shoot. It is more accurate than my eyes. I wouldn't dream of doing anything to it.

livebythegun
August 8, 2008, 02:20 PM
This little beauty(Hungarian M44) will produce 1 1/4 MOA at 100yds. It has been slightly modified, I had a gunsmith friend of mine shorten and bend the bolt and do a trigger job on it(3.75lb pull), I refinished the stock myself.http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7046/misc023jk7.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=misc023jk7.jpg)http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4189/misc021yx5.th.jpg (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=misc021yx5.jpg)

SimpleIsGood229
August 8, 2008, 02:49 PM
I mustn't let my '46 Izhevsk see this thread. :eek:

I agree with Mosin Freak, Cosmoline, Amish, et al. Without being condescending, I just don't see the point in trying to make something (a Mosin) into something it's not (a sporter, etc.). One also must consider the historic aspect at hand.

Deer Hunter also makes an excellent point about the '03 Springfield.

Heck, I'll gladly dispose of that piece of crap, free of charge. ;)

Cosmoline
August 8, 2008, 03:26 PM
I get infinitely more satisfaction out of taking something that has no practical use, and turning it into something useful.

Why do you think it has "no practical use"? Folks use intact military rifles for hunting and target shooting all the time. If you don't like them, get some sav/rem/win/rug/cz in the usual same-old configuration.

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 03:45 PM
Assuming it works in the end, it'll have way more practical use than it does now.
Accurizing: like Col. Whelen said, "Only accurate guns are interesting."
Folder: it'll finally fit behind the truck seat.
Removing all that stupid wood up front: weight.
16" braked and well crowned barrel: gets rid of the bayonet and front sight.
Pistol grip: better felt recoil, more consistant grip, light-years ahead in ergos.
Scout mount: honestly it'll probably just hold a red dot, but that's still an improvement. I like to use the original sights just because they're kind of fun in a weird, perverse kind of way... but they aren't any good.
In addition to the "tacticool" stuff (which I see as classy, turning an old relic into a modern carbine but with MN looks) don't forget I'll be doing all the traditional accurizing I can. I feel like the trigger is fine, but bedding would definitely help.

Cosmoline
August 8, 2008, 04:00 PM
Knock yourself out, but you will end up with an incredibly noisy rifle that won't shoot straight and falls apart from recoil after a few dozen rounds. I've seen it many times. These garage hack jobs just end up ruining perfectly good rifles.

As far as your assessment, you're dead wrong. The ergonomics are fine, the sights are fine, the bolt is fine, the stock is fine, and the whole rifle is extremely cool. If you want one with more accuracy there are REAL accurizing measures you can take. Ironically you fail to identify the one key problem with Mosin accuracy--the trigger. There are aftermarket fixes for that. You're coming at this without really understanding anything about the rifle or what makes an accurate, effective firearm, and that's probably what annoys me more than anything else. Bubba revels in rank ignorance. He's PROUD of being stupid. And I've seen his handiwork more times than I care to remember. Don't be bubba. Learn to appreciate what you have. Learn about its history and learn to shoot it properly. Open your mind! Here's an example of what you can do with that "clunky" bolt and "outdated" stock design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfvSDQMMmSE

See how fluid the movement is? Practice some and you can be doing that.

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 04:12 PM
Does no one read posts fully? I will be accurizing, it's just that I already know the tricks. Ifinally got a straight answer from cosmo here, that the wood won't hold up. Well, I thought that since I have access to a modern machine shop any changes will be professional, not garage-bubba'd. The poor machining on my MN pisses me off. My dad can't do worse than that, he builds scientific equipment.

Cosmoline
August 8, 2008, 04:19 PM
The stock will hold up unless you start hacking at it and trying to make it some bizarre folder. Your folding mechanism will fail under recoil. Your brake will probably end up flying downrange, as many of the aftermarket brakes do. I have no idea how you'd keep optics on there other than welding some steel platform for them and bolting them on. An ordinary scout mount will let loose under the recoil from a 16" barrel and no hardwood in front or back to balance it out. Anyway, consider yourself warned.

HB
August 8, 2008, 04:31 PM
Go buy a $50 Omega Weapons Systems T-53 and have fun.
How could you say that! They are rifles with great historical significance :neener:

While I wouldn't do it myself, do whatever you want. I really don't see the
mosins as some sacred weapon of war, it's just a mass produced gun. There are millions of them and it is unlikely that yours is going to be worth any money if you leave at as is considering that a lot of people think it's sacrilegious to cut it up.

Thank being said, I would just sporterize it, Scope, Stock, etc

HB

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 06:12 PM
Alright, so if I get the sporter stock, bed it, cut off the barrel before the bayonet, and weld on a flash suppressor made by my dad do you think a scout mount would hold on under recoil? Don't flash suppressors reduce reoil? I'd really like to keep the original stock though. Seems like it'd be heavier (recoil-reducing) and I like it better. Would it be acceptable to just keep the pistol grip idea? I'm thinking of reccessing it into the stock a little for strength and bolting it on, but would that hold up?

NCsmitty
August 8, 2008, 08:17 PM
CZ 42,
If you are not aware of Steve Wagner's site, here's a link.

http://www.gswagner.com/mosin-nagant/mnsporter.html

It might give you an idea for your mods.

NCsmitty

CZ 42
August 8, 2008, 08:30 PM
Wow, that's nice. I wasn't aware of him, thanks. How easy is it to do that?

SimpleIsGood229
August 8, 2008, 11:50 PM
The poor machining is simply part of the historical significance of the weapon: the Russians had to produce them as fast as possible, so they skimped on fit and finish. Woop-de-do. Ivan and Igor still killed the Germans just as well with their poorly-machined M44's.

Guess I'm just a sucker for historical rifles. Speaking of which, that 91/30 wants to be adopted! :D

35 Whelen
August 8, 2008, 11:50 PM
Thanks for all the encouragement, guys, CZ42 KEEP it UP!!!.

RonE...you got the balls of a gub-ment mule! I LOVE your Mary Kay Mosin!!

Those of you who want to follow my progrees with my Mosin, be patient. It has to cool off and I have to get a couple of deer in the freezer before I go back to it.
For those Sticks in the Mud who wish to quell our fun I submit:

"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

So, quit nagging us about what we're doing with our 1 of 20 million rifles. I'd rather BUILD my own Scout rifle than be GIVEN a Steyr or Savage.

35W

Harry Paget Flashman
August 9, 2008, 12:37 AM
I love these "bubba the Mosin" threads. It gives me a chance to trot out my Mosin Nagant Frankenstocks. For about $10 you can get used M44 stocks from Numrich and do all the bubba-ing you want without trashing the original rifle.

See the link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=286637

I have six recently acquire stocks that I am going to have some fun with.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 9, 2008, 02:01 AM
Just because your dad own's a machine shop doesn't mean it'll turn out to be a quality piece of work.

Golden Hound
August 9, 2008, 05:18 AM
The character "The End" from Metal Gear Solid 3 (who might be the best video game character ever) uses a Mosin 91/30 which is modified with some kind of metal stock. I don't think it's a folding stock though. Here is a picture:

http://www.gamestar.com/12_04/images/exp_mgs3_01.jpg

Yes, that is his pet parrot on his shoulder. If you kill it, it will come back as a ghost. And he's wearing L.L. Bean boots. The leaves on his ghillie suit are alive and somehow an extension of his body, and as he is dying, they fade to yellow and then brown. And the battle with him can take up to four hours. Like I said...the best character ever.

Clean97GTI
August 9, 2008, 07:32 AM
I fail to see any benefit to hacking the barrel down to 16", especially if accuracy is the goal.
Folding stock...eh, if you really want some gun rice.
Go ahead and accurize it if you really want to and work on the trigger. I wouldn't hope for too much though.

I'd also venture a guess that most of the accuracy problems come from either the guy pulling the trigger or running ammo thats older than most of the guys on this board and was made during the Korean or Vietnam wars.

If you really want something like that, just buy an Enfield jungle carbine.

Jason M
August 9, 2008, 07:55 AM
I do like the trigger job idea (the "$0.02" one) and I've even though of cutting off about 1/4" of the barrel and giving it an 11-degree target crown. She needs all the help she can get--especially with the trigger.

I mean, all you guys flaming this thread about "ruining" a rifle must be crazy. You are telling me that in long-range Garand shooting they don't modify those "priceless GI" rifles to accept scopes and match triggers and crown muzzles, etc.? And those rifles start at $500+ and only go up from there.

Joe Demko
August 9, 2008, 11:02 AM
Whether or not the rifle is priceless, when he gets done with the mods described it will be worthless as either a shooter or a collector's piece. If he really wants to chop it up, then I think he should complete the SBR paperwork and make it into a MN handgun. Historically, this was done, especially among partisans and criminals. They used down loaded ammo. Picture a mare's leg version of an MN. A member here made just such a gun a year or two ago and posted pics. He has something that is both unusual and that replicates history. Trying to turn an MN into some kind of half-fast EBR is a waste of an MN even if you consider them nothing but project guns.
Search here and at TFL on "obryez" to learn more.

crushbup
August 9, 2008, 01:02 PM
I love how you already know the outcome of this project before it's really been started.

Hey, didn't I meet you at Delphi ~2000 years ago?

elmerfudd
August 9, 2008, 01:19 PM
Not everything needs to be about profit, retaining value or collectability. Sometimes you can get your moneys worth just from the enjoyment you get with the project.

I've got a couple of minute of barn MN's in my safe right now that would probably be more fun in a butchered state than they are now. I've already promised them to my nephew though.

SimpleIsGood229
August 9, 2008, 01:53 PM
I mean, all you guys flaming this thread about "ruining" a rifle must be crazy. You are telling me that in long-range Garand shooting they don't modify those "priceless GI" rifles to accept scopes and match triggers and crown muzzles, etc.? And those rifles start at $500+ and only go up from there.
A Garand can be accurized into a match weapon, a Mauser can be made into a nice sporter, but honestly, I don't think a Mosin is that good for any kind of non-historical transformation. I think Mosins are best in their original form. That's the other half of it for me.

I do fully respect your opinion, however.

fireflyfather
August 9, 2008, 07:27 PM
I am unclear on the purpose of a pistol grip and folding stock on a bolt action rifle. If done purely for "looks", I suppose it is stupid, in a stupid way. If done out of some misplaced desire for utility, you've just about doubled perceived recoil, doubled muzzle blast, and doubled the time it takes for your hand to reach the bolt from the firing position to reload. Stupid. 35Whelan's mods are MUCH more utilitarian.

Atla
August 9, 2008, 07:30 PM
Rock Solid makes excellent Mosin Nagant parts.

fireflyfather
August 9, 2008, 10:00 PM
A Garand can be accurized into a match weapon, a Mauser can be made into a nice sporter, but honestly, I don't think a Mosin is that good for any kind of non-historical transformation. I think Mosins are best in their original form. That's the other half of it for me.

Samo Hayha and the rest of Finland disagree with you, and they have a stronger argument. A Mosin can be just as accurate as a garand, provided handloaded ammo and accurizing.


To the OP: As has been said, cutting the barrel down to 16" is only going to generate a fireball, not improve accuracy. If you're going to handload with fast burning powders, it might be ok, but don't expect it to be a 500 yard gun at that point. There's a reason some of us like the long barrels on the 91/30. Slow burning powders can give higher velocities/better long range accuracy. Also, if you download real far (not for the novice!!!), that long barrel can even work almost as good as a suppressor.

AmishFury
August 9, 2008, 10:51 PM
Samo Hayha and the rest of Finland disagree with you, and they have a stronger argument. A Mosin can be just as accurate as a garand, provided handloaded ammo and accurizing.

except the only finnish rifles with exceptional accuracy are finn made models... for example simo hayha used a m28

russian made rifles in finnish service would have been just as accurate as a russian rifle in russian service... depending on the skills of the meatbag behind the rifle

SimpleIsGood229
August 9, 2008, 11:02 PM
Samo Hayha and the rest of Finland disagree with you, and they have a stronger argument. A Mosin can be just as accurate as a garand, provided handloaded ammo and accurizing.I think my post was taken a bit out of intended context. I was referring to Bubba in 2008 taking an M44, for example, and attempting to make it into something it's not.

A Mosin can be just as accurate as a garand, provided handloaded ammo and accurizing.
Absolutely. As you've pointed out, the Finns have pretty well proven that.


Perhaps I should slightly modify my original post:
A Garand can be accurized into a match weapon, a Mauser can be made into a nice sporter, but honestly, I don't think a Mosin is that good for any kind of non-historical transformation. I think Mosins are best left in their historically accurate form. That's the other half of it for me.
There, I think that's better. :)

RonE
August 10, 2008, 02:26 AM
A guy on another forum made a Mosin-Nagant sniper/target rifle. Here is a link to that thread that shows how much you can do if you want to spend the money. I don't think anyone will fault the project, considering what he started with.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=29075

My personal project was done on the cheap but you can shoot a project like this with a money gun. To each his own.

If you look around, you will find other examples of Mousen Nouget rifles turned into sporters.

andypifkin
August 10, 2008, 03:40 AM
not mine

dirtyjim
August 10, 2008, 02:20 PM
cz 42 go ahead & build whatever you want. sporterizing military rifles is as much a part of our culture & history as the wars they originally fought in. when i first started cutting up guns i really botched a few of them & i expect everyone else who had the guts to do their own work did to. you may end up with a pile of parts that never gets back together or you may end up with a one of a kind rifle that you built yourself. your first efforts will probably not come out right but you will see why it didn't work & maybee come up with a solution.
you always hear that you'll turn your rifle into a worthless pos & you just might bu most of the rifles i've built are worth more in their sporterized state than they would be worth in their original condition. you can get a very nice springfield 1903 for under $1000, you cant get a sedgley, a jaeger or a griffin & howe 1903 for that.

Joe Demko
August 10, 2008, 08:08 PM
You'll need to document Bubba'ed rifles being worth more than their original military versions. Sedgely et. al. weren't Bubba...but you knew that when you posted.

dirtyjim
August 10, 2008, 10:16 PM
You'll need to document Bubba'ed rifles being worth more than their original military versions. Sedgely et. al. weren't Bubba...but you knew that when you posted.
i guess you haven't priced a quality built sporter based on a mauser or a 1903. i don't build bubba guns & i never said a bubba gun was worth more than it was in its military condition.
all the top builders started somewhere & most of them would like to have bought their early creations back so no-one else could see how horrible they were.
i have a sedgley 1903 & my work is as good as his if not better. i have several guild rifles & my work is slowly creeping up on the quality on them.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mosin Mods" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!