[azar]

I'm looking to purchase a 7mm Rem. Mag. in the very near future (I went to buy one today, but hesitated). I plan to reload for this rifle and will be buying the dies, brass, and bullets before too long.

My budget is in the $500 to $700 for the rifle and $200 to $250 for the scope. Here's some that I am aware of that fit (or nearly fit) in my budget:

Howa M-1500 (~$470)
Weatherby Vanguard (Standard, Sub-moa) (?, ~$700)
Remington 700 (~$550)
Savage (?)
Browning X-bolt (~$750)
Other...

The last time I was at my favorite gun shop the salesman started talking up the Howa with a rubberized synthetic grip. I must admit, I really liked it. Enough so that I went to buy it today, but couldn't quite bring myself to get it. It's only $469 with a scope (which I plan to replace with something nicer), and I like the feel of the stock and the action and trigger. I know that Howa makes the Weatherby Vangaurd's and I've heard more and more good things about them, but I don't know enough about them to be at ease with my hard earned $$$. Are they good quality? Could I expect 1.5" groups? 1" groups? Better than 1" (if I'm lucky)?

I'd like peoples opinions on what they consider the best 7mm Rem. Mag. available in my price range. And any personal experiences / opinions with Howa if you have any (of any caliber) would also be greatly appreciated.

[brentwal]

Howa builds the Weatherby Vanguards.

[viking499]

I have a 20 year old Remington 7 mag that will shoot with any gun out there. Or at least I would like to think it will.:) Don't know about the new Remington's. From your list the Howa would be a good choice. An excellent shooting rifle not on your list is a Tikka. But, I would wonder about the weight of the rifle versus recoil. Might be ok. Very good rifles for the money.

[DRYHUMOR]

I've got 2 Winchester model 70's in 7mm. One with wood stock one with HS Precision stock.

You may want to look online and see what's out there. Gunbroker has some good variety, and the occasional really good deal.

May want to consider what type of stock, barrel weight, hunt in rain or not. Some makers have good triggers, or triggers that can be adjusted, or replaced.

Remington Sendero's are known for good accuracy. I've heard good things about the Howas as well.

[Cypress]

My accuracy bet goes to savage,

[DRYHUMOR]

Model 70 Laredo LRH 7mm

[waffentomas]

If you are reloading, get the cheapest one possible. You can always find a load it will like with some patience, and trial and error. Then, spend what you save on the scope. It looks like you have a budget of about $1000. Get a $400-$500 rifle, and get a nice $500-$600 scope, you won't regret it.

I bought a Weatherby Vanguard (non-sub MOA) in .308 for $299 on clearance. Bought a Nikon Monarch Gold 2.5x10 50mm refurbished scope for $529, and the darn thing shoots 1/4 MOA groups from the bench with boring regularity. The target I got with the rifle had a 5 shot 1.3" group attached to it.

It loves WW748, and 180 grain bullets, even though it has a slower 1/12 twist.

I really believe most rifles coming off the line these days are capable of tremendous accuracy, even the least expensive ones. But handloading is probably the only way to realize it.

I did a similar thing with my 7mm mag. Bought a Savage for $150 at a pawn shop. It's my son's elk rifle (I use the .308 for everything) and it shoots 1/2 MOA groups all day. It took longer to find the right load for it, but RL 22 and Speer 175gr bullets are it's favorite.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Tom

[okeybug]

I'm a southpaw so I favor the Remington 700. I've had mine for about 20 years and it's a great rifle. I think the 700 is one of the most beautiful rifles out there. I've shot 1/2 inch groups with this rifle.

[NCsmitty]

You might consider a Stevens 200 in 7mm Mag. They are budget Savages but I hear they shoot very well. They are under $300 on Gunbroker.com. Something to consider.

NCsmitty

[Clark]

I have a Ruger #1 7mm Mag 26" barrel that weighs 10 pounds with the scope and sling.

It will shoot 1.5" groups and kill animals 7' tall.

I don't have any other rifles with that much power, range, and accuracy.

[azar]

I really appreciate everyone's responses so far. I'm at least glad to know that I likely would have walked away with a good gun in a Howa.

I definitely like the rubberized synthetic stock of Howa's over the synthetic Remington. But I'm sure I could order to my tastes.

[Grumulkin]

I have an Encore 7mm Rem. Mag. that I like. It's fairly light and with handloads will put bullets into well under an inch at 100 yards. Of course the hazzard with an Encore is that when you get one you think you need more barrels...

[Der Verge]

I just sold a Weatherby Vanguard (Howa) in 7Rem because it was very picky. It also did not shoot anything worth a crap until it was bedded. I don't think I will buy another Howa. It did not like anything over 140 gr. I went back to Savage, as I have always had great luck with accuracy in their guns.

[ForneyRider]

I have a Parker Hale 1200 7mm Mag.
One hunting buddy has a Browning stainless 7mm mag.
Another has a Howa 7mm Mag.

I like the Howa for a new gun, but prefer a used PH if you can find one.

[azar]

Well, after reading everyone's replies I felt better equipped. That is until I stopped to price scopes on my lunch break today. I noticed my local Sportsmans Warehouse carried the Tikka T3 line and so I decided to get feel for them. I was interested in them out about 4 years ago, but they were back ordered for like 18 months (at least in the 6.5x55 SE).

Man, what a smooth action! And I like the 75 degree lift of the bolt so there is less of a chance of it causing your knuckles to scrape the scope. The 1MOA at 100 yards guarantee is also a great plus. Also, the price is right at $550 for the 7mm which they had on the shelf. I almost bought it right then and there. My biggest hang-ups were the weight, stock appearance, and abundant use of plastic for parts. I'm not sure if the detachable clip is a pro or con for me in this gun. Having a gun that is 6lbs 6oz and a scope that is say 13oz only gives me a 7lb 3oz rifle. That seems like the felt recoil of the rifle would be more punishing than it would need to be for a 7mm Rem Mag.

I'm not a huge fan of synthetic stocks in general but so far the rubberized Howa stock has the others beat as it's basically a big Hogue stock. Although I think I prefer the Tikka's over the Remington synthetic that I also looked at.

Howa Pros: Rubberized (Hogue) stock feel and look. Heavier weight makes for more suitable 7mm Rem Mag gun. Likely at least a 1.5MOA gun.
Tikka Pros: Glass-smooth action. 75 degree bolt angle. 1MOA out of the box. Detachable clip(?).

Howa Cons: Less brand familiarity. Not guaranteed 1MOA.
Tikka Cons: Ultra-light might prove under weight for 7mm Rem Mag. Cheaper (look and feel) stock. Many parts are plastic instead of metal.

I believe I can get the rubberized Howa with stainless steel barrel for $530. I can get the Tikka T3 with stainless steel barrel for $550, so the prices are nearly identical.

Thoughts?

[azar]

Also, does anyone know the twist rate on either of these rifles for 7mm Rem Mag?

1:9"?
1:10"?

Thanks.

[ForneyRider]

Howa website 1:9.5in twist.
This is a 1MOA gun.

[rg1]

Remington 7mm Rem Mag has a 9 1/4" twist. I vote for a Remington 700 Stainless Synthetic.

[627PCFan]

+1 on the Tikka. I plan on buying more of them :)

[azar]

ForneyRider: How do you know? From what I've heard Howa claims it will be at least a 1.5MOA gun. The sub-moa is sold as the Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa.

[ForneyRider]

The guy that owns our deer lease has one with a Leupold on it.
He spent more on the scope than the rifle.
You can shoot 1in group at 100yards. That's roughly 1MOA.

I am sure a trigger job and cleanup by a 'smith wouldn't hurt. But the barrel and action are quality budget pieces.

[azar]

I noticed that Barnes recommends a 1:9" twist to stabilize their 175gr TSX. Would a 1:9.5" stabilize most the 7mm 175gr bullets out there?

I found out that the Tikka has a 1:9.5" twist, but I can't find the Howa home page. ForneyRider, do you have a link?

Thanks.

[NCsmitty]

The Barnes 175gr. TSX is a real long bullet and will work better in the 7mm STW or any of the super magnum 7mm's.
You will hard pressed to find a better long range game bullet than the 162gr. SST Hornady in the 7mm Remag. The .550 BC allows it to reach out there and carry the energy to the target. You just have to make sure it shoots well in your particular rifle. The 7mm Remag seems to work better with the 154-162gr. bullet range, IMO.

NCsmitty

[azar]

I appreciate all the feedback I received from this thread. I finally made my decision today and the decision surprised me. I went with a gun I had yet to consider:

Ruger M77 Mark II Sporter (Brushed stainless steel barrel, laminated wood stock)

I'm simply too big of a sucker for wood stocks. It's hard for me to purchase a gun with a synthetic stock. ;) The Howa had the best synthetic stock I had come across, but it was too much hassle for me to get it in stainless. I hope this Ruger can deliver with good accuracy (1 MOA or close to it) If I can get 1MOA anything beyond that is just icing on the cake.

What are others personal experiences with the Ruger M77 Mark II series with regards to quality? Accuracy?

(I know, I know the triggers could use an overhaul...)

[ForneyRider]

Legacy Sports is US importer for Howa.

http://www.legacysports.com/

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/specs/specs_baractions.html

Ruger rifle != accuracy. Most of them take some work, but they are very reliable and will take a beating.

[azar]

ForneyRider said:
Ruger rifle != accuracy. Most of them take some work, but they are very reliable and will take a beating.

Well, this gun definitely feels sold and like it could take quite a beating. Everything about this gun feels durable and well made.

As for the accuracy, I would say that Ruger rifle != accuracy is not fair assesement. At least, not as a general rule. Here is my proof. :p

Factory loaded Hornady Custom 162 grain BTSP at 100 yards. That's a 0.822" (0.785 MOA) group with store bought ammunition, a stock Ruger rifle and a Burris Fullfield II scope. I have no doubts that I can tighten that group up with some custom handloads. But even seeing that group with store bought ammunition makes me quite pleased!! :D