New HBO TV show: Generation Kill


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 10, 2008, 12:36 AM
Anybody watch this? How real-to-life is this? It's on Sunday nights, 9pm central I believe.

Also, this is gun related, I have a question.

If you have seen the show, what kind of stock is on "Trommley's" (a character in the show, a major character) M249 SAW? It's really short and stubby looking.

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highorder
August 10, 2008, 12:40 AM
I am watching episode 4 right now.

I like it; If I understand correctly, it's based on true events, and two of the characters are Marines playing themselves.

21H40
August 10, 2008, 01:06 AM
It's one of the newer (the first time I saw them fielded was in 2005, but that's one soldiers observations, not actual Army history) collapsible stocks for the lightweight versions of the M249.

They also have a shortened barrel.

pistolero6869
August 10, 2008, 01:10 AM
It not bad but kinda dumb at times, But I watch it anyways.....

bogie
August 10, 2008, 02:24 AM
Saw some of it so far... Looks to be into "let's blow stuff up and shoot stuff, and make soldiers in general look not too bright, and their leadership actually dumber."

Darthbauer
August 10, 2008, 02:36 AM
I like it. Seems like most of the people that I know that are and were in the marines. I think there are more than a couple of guys in it playing themselves.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 10, 2008, 02:55 AM
I've seen only the first episode, and I felt like it was somewhat accurate. The only differences I really see have to do with behavior of the lower level enlisted. Nobody I know gets all enthusiastic about being a "blood crazed killing machine" or whatever. That stuff is all pretty much a joke to us. Nobody goes on runs with a flak, gas mask, and weapon. Some people really jump on the "Army is full of turds" bandwagon, but I as well as many others do not. Basically, we're not as moto as that.

I felt like a lot of the way they show senior enlisted/officers was pretty spot on. Things like some jerkbag Sgt Major flipping his lid about a mustache being slightly out of regs strike me as exactly the way those guys are. Contrary to any preconceived notion, in my experience the military is really about by the book, linear thinking. They do their best to stifle creative or "outside the box" type thinking within the context of grunt units. To give you an example, we had a "basic infantry knowledge" test a couple weeks ago (our new 1st sgt and gunny come from the drill field.) and one of the questions was "how much dispersion should there be between individuals in a patrolling fireteam"? I answer "terrain dictates the distance" which is really the only logical answer, for if we're in a desert then it would be wise to spread way out, but a triple canopy jungle doesn't allow for that amount of distance. Of course, the answer was wrong, because in some official military manual, the "correct" answer is 15-25 meters or something like that. But I was given a warning for "putting smartass answers" on the test.

There was a quote from somebody within Napoleon's army, and I wish I could remember who said it or how it went, but it said something to the effect of "There are two types of armies; armies who have neat uniforms, drill precisely, and put on parades, with senile and decrepit generals and weak minded staff tending to their every need, then there's the real army, the one people don't like to see, who are dirty, foul mouthed, and actually fight the battles.

I'd say my unit feels like the former.

halfacop
August 10, 2008, 02:55 AM
If I understand correctly, it's based on true events, and two of the characters are Marines playing themselves.....


Right, its a miniseries based on the true story of Marines fighting in the Iraq war that will look at the early movements of the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion and depict the complex challenges faced by the U.S.-led mission even in the war's early stages.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 10, 2008, 05:27 AM
So, for the most part, good show? And thanks for the info. Knew the shortened it somewhat, but didn't know about that stock. Kinda cool if I may say so my self. That series is my new favorite show.

D-Day
August 10, 2008, 06:22 AM
I love it. Can't wait for the next episode.

AirForceShooter
August 10, 2008, 07:59 AM
I hate the name of the series.
Some Lib picked it I guess.
I wonder if the message isn't " these crazed killers are coming home soon"

I'm just sort of sensitive about that. After all I used to be a crazed baby killer.

AFS

Derek Zeanah
August 10, 2008, 09:16 AM
I hate the name of the series.
Some Lib picked it I guess.
I wonder if the message isn't " these crazed killers are coming home soon"
Or, it could be the name of the book (http://www.amazon.com/Generation-Kill-Evan-Wright/dp/0425224740/) the author (a former marine attached to that unit) chose...

yeti
August 10, 2008, 10:08 AM
Seems to contain an unusual amount of interest in the pleasures of tactical bowel movements.:what:
While I understand bodily functions are part of real life, and like weapons that can never be shot dry, shows where people never need to relieve themselves are a movie/TV thing, this program seems to have a constant crap fest running in the background. I get the scat humor, and the real life need for the function, it just seems a little more then is really necessary to get the idea across.

That and the fact that like every(almost every) war show since M*A*S*H the enlisted men are wise, compassionate, and tactical/strategic -cal masters , and the officers are bumbling, glory hounds that need to be molded by their teenage subordinates. It's not over the top, like MASH was, and I understand it was written from the POV of a reporter living with the EM, but the bias is still there.

But I do like the show.

Pilot
August 10, 2008, 11:55 AM
Seems to contain an unusual amount of interest in the pleasures of tactical bowel movements.
While I understand bodily functions are part of real life, and like weapons that can never be shot dry, shows where people never need to relieve themselves are a movie/TV thing, this program seems to have a constant crap fest running in the background. I get the scat humor, and the real life need for the function, it just seems a little more then is really necessary to get the idea across.

That and the fact that like every(almost every) war show since M*A*S*H the enlisted men are wise, compassionate, and tactical/strategic -cal masters , and the officers are bumbling, glory hounds that need to be molded by their teenage subordinates. It's not over the top, like MASH was, and I understand it was written from the POV of a reporter living with the EM, but the bias is still there.

But I do like the show.

I was going to post, but your post, sir, sums up my thoughts exactly. I like it too, but with the same caveats.

yokel
August 10, 2008, 12:00 PM
‘Generation Kill’ is much better than its silly title.

cpttango30
August 10, 2008, 12:13 PM
I dunno know about anyone else. But the only time a mission got screwed up was when an officer tried to lead the mission. If an NCO was doing it it went so smooth it was nto funny.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 10, 2008, 01:10 PM
I'm glad they put it on the air. I can't wait to watch it tonight.

bobbarker
August 10, 2008, 01:34 PM
Freelance- I have to say, I think you got stuck with a ****ty unit. The two Units I've been with, and the 4 different commands I've had(While I have hated some of them) ALWAYS stressed answers just like what you said. There is a right(Real world) answer, and there is a Correct(book) answer, and they have always wanted the Real World answer. They wouldn't jump down your throat for giving the book answer, but they always wanted the real answer before they would move on. Because Terrain does dictate dispersion, formation, etc. So, I think you just got shafted on that one.

To comment on the enlisted Vs. Officer leadership, I have to say, Officers screw things up, a lot more than I've seen enlisted do it. And the reason being, to get the same amount of athority as a Lt. who has just graduated from college and ocs, you need to be at least a Staff Sgt. Technically, the LT still outranks you, but the Staff Sgt. holds more sway. That means you've got to put in about a decade worth of experience before you can really argue with an officer(about 6 months experience) on how to do things. 6 months is just enough time for them to get enough experience to think they know what they are doing, all the time. Not all officers are like that, but I've run into more that are than aren't. So, take it for what it's worth.

Finally, I haven't seen the show, but it sounds like you're describing the Parasaw. It is lighter, has a collapsible buttstock, and a shorter barrel. One of the big problems with the old SAW was how front heavy it was, and this reduces that problem a lot. It also has a rail system so you can put your goodies on there.

Pilot
August 10, 2008, 01:48 PM
Interestingly, I believe its a British production and directed by a British woman. :confused:

Maybe that's why they are so concerned with bodily functions. :D

What's the deal with Charms candy being bad luck. Is it just the name?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 10, 2008, 02:14 PM
Heh, Idk. I love the show though.

Daniel_Junglist
August 10, 2008, 02:21 PM
my comment is also to freelance, I was army infantry and if we answered anything but what you said on that little quiz wed have been doing pushups.


charms suck.

Sam1911
August 10, 2008, 03:22 PM
Quote:
I hate the name of the series.
Some Lib picked it I guess.
I wonder if the message isn't " these crazed killers are coming home soon"
Or, it could be the name of the book the author (a former marine attached to that unit) chose...

Or...it could be the name of the book that the author, Evan Wright -- a contributing editor of /Rolling Stone/ -- came up with.

I don't believe he had any prior military experience. At one point he is handed a rifle to hold during an encounter, and has it gently but firmly taken away again due to his inexperienced handling of it (handing it back muzzle first with the safety off (p. 150, I think). Not a move a man with any military training would have pulled.

I have this book and have read it three or four times. It is excellent, for what it is. This is not an expose of the entire U.S. military, or of the USMC. It is simply the record of what Wright saw while attached to a unit from the First Recon Battalion during the invasion of Iraq. I've found the book poignant and humorous as well as ironically sensitive to the guys Wright was with. Most of them were very young (compared to most of us ;-) ) and the majority were not very highly educated or knowledgeable about many issues -- as many uneducated young guys tend to be (been there, done that!). So, surprise, surprise, sometimes the guys are portrayed as fallible, immature, or even dumb. But I'm guessing that's a pretty accurate portrayal and would be consistent with a similar interview with a front-line unit in any military just about any where, throughout history.

I haven't seen the mini-series but I can't wait to when it's out on disk.

And, truth be told, "These crazed killers are going to be coming home soon," would make a pretty decent title to a work like this -- if it was written from the correct point of view. I've read this book and a number of others with a growing appreciation for what a fighting man (or woman) *IS*-- outside of both the sterilized view of the Minuteman and the glorified view of Arnie and Stallone. We really do (have to) create killing machines to do this work effectively and "cleanly." We use many psychological techniques to turn off the moral and social guards internal to most people that prevent them from acting in the ways they will have to act to survive war and to achieve our ends. But will we ever be able to figure out how to shepherd these guys back OUT of that mode? Society and the military turn a very harsh eye on those soldiers who take things too far on or near the battlefield, or to those who escape into drug abuse when they are out of the field again, or those with various manifestations of PTSD (or whatever we're calling that plethora of symptoms now). And yet what kind of a person can walk back up over the brink and enter *humanity* again without some serious rifts and wounds?

For one very simple example, that really haunts me because of its very mundane nature, watch some of the Youtube videos of convoys just driving through Baghdad. I don't mean the ones of firefights and insurgents squashed by tanks. Just the simple, every-day, videos of the HMMWVs getting from point A to point B. Horns blaring, bumping-to-pass, crashing over medians to drive into oncoming traffic if threatened with stopping for only a second, weapons eternally at the ready to destroy whatever might slow them down and trap them in an ambush.

Now picture the driver of that HMMWV as little as even four weeks later. He's finished his enlistment, been rotated out of theater, and honorably discharged. He's wearing a button-down shirt and slacks on his way to a new job, sitting in his Honda, in bumper-to-bumper traffic on some freeway outside of Los Angeles or somewhere. You think he's feeling just a little stressed?

I'm not worried -- for a minute, really -- about what these "crazed killers" might do when unleashed on society. I'm pretty concerned about what we should be doing to help them.

Wow, that got off topic. Just read the book.

-Sam

Derek Zeanah
August 10, 2008, 03:23 PM
True - got it confused with another "marine in the desert" book that made it into a movie.

bogie
August 10, 2008, 03:26 PM
Do not eat the unlucky charms.

When you gotta take a dump, you gotta take a dump.

MREs or other field expedient chow doesn't help.

Being in, at best, a mildly hostile area (ranging from "within range of buddies with video cameras and evil intentions toward practical jokes" to "Achmed might have boobytrapped that ditch" is not conducive to whippin' out the good ol' stack of catalogs...

Speaking of which - does MRE toilet paper still suck?

Derek Zeanah
August 10, 2008, 03:44 PM
Speaking of which - does MRE toilet paper still suck?I don't know -- do you use it according to the TM? ;)

Daniel_Junglist
August 10, 2008, 03:46 PM
yes but you dont want to be without it regardless.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 10, 2008, 04:57 PM
I was a SAW gunner last deployment, and we had the 4 pos collapsable stock, and shortened barrel. Most didn't realize it, but the short barrel was much thicker than the long one, and the collapsable stock was also heavier. We also had the Elcan M145 sight (which is a total POS and completely unnecessary on a SAW), and that tri rail that you see in DSA ads. So our SAWs, with all their "compactness" upgrades ended up weighing a good 3 or 4 pounds more than a plain jane SAW.

It became company SOP to put PEQ-2s on that rail too. This was a completely idiotic move since they never worked right, nobody paid attention to them even when they did, and we have tracers anyway. They weren't a good fit to the rail, and the significantly added to the bulk of the weapon. I could turn mine on, but it was so hopelessly off sight that I paid no attention to it and just point shot using tracers. There was still a lot of play after I screwed it onto the rail, so it would never be consistent.

I would rather have had a plain ol' SAW. Nothing on it whatsoever. No "upgrades", no extras.

bogie
August 10, 2008, 05:48 PM
I'd rather have good sights (that work). Tracers work both ways, you know... It's easier for Abduhl to follow the tracers home than to locate muzzle flash on a bright day... Of course, most of my military MG experience was with a pig... I've shot the new .223 LMGs, and they're wonderful...

Freelance Tax Collector
August 10, 2008, 06:20 PM
Situations a little different. If you're in an ambush, Achmed already knows where you are so it won't matter. There's a huge disadvantage to having magnified optics with critical eye relief that you can't get a good cheek weld to on a SAW. It seems that for all practical purposes, the M60 GPMG and SAW are used in somewhat the same roles. We carry 3 per squad. We only have 3 M240B GPMGs per platoon now, but they carry the tripod and T&E mechanisms and stuff.

Daniel_Junglist
August 13, 2008, 05:11 AM
i liked the shortened saw with m145 although we didnt have the 4 position stock we just had the one that twists and retracts.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 13, 2008, 12:38 PM
I haven't shot one, but I think that the original-ish stock of the SAW, the plastic one or whatever, would be the most comfortable, but I could be wrong.

gregormeister
August 13, 2008, 12:58 PM
Well I ain't seen the show yet..but as a former Iraqi Freedom vet Marine I can say that crap jokes, crap humor and basically anything foul we could come apon to make a good laugh out of a horrible place was worth it...
If you ain't been there or any other active combat zone you'll never know or understand.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 13, 2008, 12:59 PM
Well I'm not gonna say I've been there, but some of that is some funny stuff.

anythingshiny
August 13, 2008, 03:19 PM
agreed. immature potty humor becomes the standard when in-country. EVERY other word must be foul and nothing is sacred. race, education and your mom are all fair targets...but under it all is the fact that you trust and love the man on either side of ya when the rounds are inbound.

i just picked up the book last night...

the guy next to me one day blurts out " dude..i gotta go" mind you we are in MOPP...i couldnt help but laugh...the thought of pooping in your MOPP made the situation HILARIOUS...he didnt by the way.

Bill2e
August 13, 2008, 04:28 PM
I just watched episod 4. The show is garbage. Anti-American, Anti-war Liberal BS.

The took at 5 shots at the current administration. HBO makes me sick.

highorder
August 13, 2008, 05:34 PM
I am also outraged!

The conduct of the current administration is beyond reproach. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sam1911
August 13, 2008, 07:26 PM
I just watched episod 4. The show is garbage. Anti-American, Anti-war Liberal BS.

The took at 5 shots at the current administration. HBO makes me sick.


Has anyone watching this show actually read the book and would be able to compare the content of the two?

In the book, the author offers pretty much zero personal opinion into the larger issues. He does record the words of the soldiers he was with, and no, they don't always agree with the President, the war, etc. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I mean, if you want to hear an editorial applauding the President, I'm sure there are outlets for that. Likewise, if you wanted to hear editorials ripping him apart, there are outlets for that as well. The book (again, can't really speak for the series) simply recorded what the soldiers did and said.

I'm sure you're not shocked that a bunch of Marines have opinions about things? :D

-Sam

Funderb
August 13, 2008, 07:27 PM
book was good.

RobMoore
August 13, 2008, 07:43 PM
I think to leave out any "shots" at the administration would be unrealistic. Marines complain about everything under the sun, including our leadership...from bottom to top.

Its no Band of Brothers, but I've been enjoying watching the different types of "leaders" portrayed, the same way I did watching Band of Brothers.

Bill2e
August 13, 2008, 07:48 PM
I couls care less about disagreement with the pres, it was the democrate talking points i could do with out.

simmonsguns
August 13, 2008, 07:48 PM
Rudy Reyes plays himself in this show, he is the nicest guy you will ever meet.
He is also just what he portrays in this show, i have seen him happy and i have watched him fight from the old days in matches here in town.
Yes the show is what it is, it's television,it's entertainment but it's better than cop rock was.

Sam1911
August 13, 2008, 08:36 PM
I couls care less about disagreement with the pres, it was the democrate talking points i could do with out.

Not to beat the point to death, but was this stuff the Marines said or was it editorializing on the part of the author/producer/whomever?

If there was left (or right) -wing ranting from outside sources, then the series should be 'canned. That's pointless and insulting.

However, if your plan is to go out with a bunch of soldiers, film their actions and record their words to show to the world, and then in the editing room you cut out what the guys really said and felt about things and show a version that is in essence a lie by omission, then the product is worse than useless.

There's a lot of folks who say things I disagree with. If I spend my time and money to read a book (or watch a program) about them, then I want to know what they thought and felt. Otherwise I didn't really get the full story. If they have opinions that are different from mine, I want to know about it, and, if possible, know why they feel that way.

Remember, (at least in book form) this is real life. What they said and how it all went down. It doesn't need to agree with our political opinions.


-S

Bill2e
August 13, 2008, 08:53 PM
No it was not live unedited footage.

I was "lines" like- This (dead guy) is from Syrira, he was in college last weak, he wasn't a Jihadist until we got here.

Sorry that wasn't said by Marines in Combat.

Another I remeber is complaining about blowing up a school, or destoying a village where morter blast came from.

I think what the marines have to say is great & love actual documentaries.

This show is hollywood & blame America first. That bothers me.

I watch HBO for entertainment not political commentary.

Jeff White
August 14, 2008, 12:22 AM
I was "lines" like- This (dead guy) is from Syrira, he was in college last weak, he wasn't a Jihadist until we got here.

Sorry that wasn't said by Marines in Combat.

Bill2e, how much time have you spent in a rifle platoon? Another thing you have to remember is that they are portraying an elite unit where the average grunt is going to be better educated then you might find in other units. I know from personal experience that policy and leadership from the White House down to the team leader is discussed by the troops. Especially the policies that landed them in the current situation and affect when they will get home.

Jeff

Sergeant Sabre
August 14, 2008, 02:26 AM
Nobody I know gets all enthusiastic about being a "blood crazed killing machine"

You aren't in the Marines, are you?

Bill2e
August 14, 2008, 09:08 AM
Bill2e, how much time have you spent in a rifle platoon?

Jeff, to answer your question: Zero, so I will have to take to the word of those that have and thank them or there service.

I just seemed to me that many lines came right from the democrate talking points menu, and I hate when that stuff comes up on TV.

I'm sure the Marines complain about the BS they are asked to do. There is not many jobs where people do not complain about leadership & crazy asignments.

I found this to be over the top, but apparently I am the only one. I'll check out the next episope and go from there.

darkknight
August 14, 2008, 09:36 AM
Rudy Reyes the spotter is playing himself on the show.

But I think both the book and the show are awesome. I also think the RTO Ray Persons really makes the show. His relationship with Brad is probably one of the best parts of the show and helps pass some of the slower parts of the show.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 14, 2008, 10:01 AM
Agreed with Darkknight.

I had no idea Rudy "Fruity Rudy" Reyes played himself. That's pretty neat, you don't see a lot of that.

hoosier8
August 14, 2008, 10:21 AM
Good show, very interesting to watch. From the Marines I have talked to, the mix of political persuasion in the Marines has changed over the years. From a mix to more Republican. Again, that is what I have been told by Marines that were over there. The "potty humor" is great.

One marine I know that had to come home due to injuries from a firefight would go back over in a heartbeat.

I caught the lines that I thought might be more PC for the time, but all shows do that and I just ignore them if I like the rest of the program. The filming is amazing.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 14, 2008, 01:29 PM
You aren't in the Marines, are you?

To reitterate: that type of "oorah motivation blood makes the grass grow" stuff is kind of cliche to guys not in boot camp/SOI/mainside dwelling POGs/other REMFs. It's usually invoked only in sarcasm.

Justin
August 14, 2008, 01:38 PM
I was "lines" like- This (dead guy) is from Syrira, he was in college last weak, he wasn't a Jihadist until we got here.

It's a fairly well-documented fact that once the US invasion began there were people from countries around Iraq, notably Syria, who crossed the border in order to fight Americans.

The line is hardly a Democratic talking point. Especially in light of the fact that once this began to happen that the Republicans claimed that this was a good thing and dubbed it the "flypaper effect."

DigitalWarrior
August 14, 2008, 04:33 PM
mainside dwelling POGs
You called?

I never liked the term "Data Dink", I prefer "DigitalWarrior"

I wanna be a chair-borne ranger,
I wanna grow out alla my hair.
I wanna be a chair-borne ranger,
I wanna room with central air.

Nobody I know gets all enthusiastic about being a "blood crazed killing machine"

Although I bet a tiny shameful part of you loves all that oorah crap.

Shock Trooper, Devil Dog, Blood Sucking War Machine
Ready to Fight
Ready to Kill
Ready to Die
Never Will

Semper Fi
Digital "I was the pogiest pog who ever poged" Warrior

siglite
August 14, 2008, 04:43 PM
Jeff, to answer your question: Zero, so I will have to take to the word of those that have and thank them or there service.

I just seemed to me that many lines came right from the democrate talking points menu, and I hate when that stuff comes up on TV.

I'm sure the Marines complain about the BS they are asked to do. There is not many jobs where people do not complain about leadership & crazy asignments.

I found this to be over the top, but apparently I am the only one. I'll check out the next episope and go from there.
Man, my unit was full of smart guys. Not all of us cared much about politics. Not even the politics around the conflict we were fighting at the time. But some of us did. And there's no shortage of deep, philosophical or political discussion about EVERYTHING during downtime.

You never know what the hell kind of conversation you're going to run into when you walk up on five marines cleaning weapons. It might be how you'd like to boink your fireteam leader's sister, or it might be particle physics.

And as for the "blood makes the grass grow, hoorah" stuff, well there's some of that. And honestly, about half the guys I was with meant it, and the other half invoked it with sarcasm.

bobbarker
August 14, 2008, 05:27 PM
+1 on the wild conversations. Especially when you're sitting on post with someone. We rotate through with squads in country, so, you have a possibility of being on post with 10 different guys, (Squad leader acts as Segeant of the Guard, doesn't sit a perimeter post.) After a few months of that, you're going to wind up on post with the same guy, a lot. At four hours a piece, twice a day, you're spending 56 hours a week on post. So, even if you stood with a different guy each time, thats averaging 5.6 hours on post a week with one guy. IF you stand with a different guy every time. And all you have to do to keep from dying of boredom is talk. Maybe you talk about different people you'd like to nail, maybe different people you'd like to beat up, whatever. Eventually, you wind up talking politics, religion, science, philosophy, all sorts of stuff. And some of the smartest men I've ever met were fellow grunts I was sitting on post with. Saying grunts are dumb, is far from the truth. We have the idiots too, but we also have some people that are just incredibly intelligent.

Also, the Charms thing, however it got started, the superstition is that if someone eats Charms, it rains. It got to the point NO one would eat Charms(Which are like square life savers,) and they eventually took them out of the MRE's.

And about MRE Toilet Paper....my old First Sergeant used to give a class to all the new guys about how to use MRE Tp. You poke a hole in the middle, stick your finger through it, (Whichever finger you don't use for putting in/removing your chewing tobacco with,) scrape your ass with the finger, and then pull the Toilet Paper off, wiping your finger in the process. :D No one does it, I want to assure you, it was just a funny class to reiterate how badly MRE toilet paper sucks. The entire amount you get in one MRE is sufficent for one wipe, if you're careful. That's why the Baby Wipes everyone sends aren't used just for cleaning your body.

SoCalShooter
August 14, 2008, 05:52 PM
Well I have never been in the military but the show is entertaining. And from the marines I talked to and some of the army people I know and work with they have said its not bad on the accuracy.

Ragnar Danneskjold
August 14, 2008, 05:58 PM
I've read both Generation Kill, the book by the journalist that is embedded with those Recon Marines, the book this series is based off of, as well as Lt Fick's book "One bullet away". They are 2 points of view of the same events. One from the POV of an embedded journalist, and one from the POV of Lt. Fick himself.

So far the series has in fact been very accurate. The running with MOPP gear and IBA on, all of the "Kill! Kill! Kill!" attitude, and even the things like shooting the kid, all really did happen. I know it may seem somewhat unrealistic or biased, if you just look at it as a TV show. But if you are to believe 2 guys who were really there, one of them being those Recon Marines' very own commander, the show is actually pretty in line with their accounts of the events.

Go ahead and reah Lt. Fick's book "One Bullet Away". You'll see that he pretty much corroborates most of what you see in the series or read in Evan Wright's book. I know some of you are saying it's leftist tripe and that some of the stuff is made up or it doesn't accurately depict Marines and the combat. Read Fick's book. He was the actual Marine on the ground and he wrote the book himself. If you don't believe the miniseries, at least believe the Marine that was actually there.

kd7nqb
August 14, 2008, 06:33 PM
I loved the show have watched I think the first 5 episodes so far. Moments of really interesting stuff and I think it did a GREAT job at pointing out some of the real issues we are facing. Anyway I think its a great show with a lot of cool gun stuff in it.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 14, 2008, 08:34 PM
You called?

I sure as hell did, and I already fixed the problem while I was waiting for your slow butt. :D

I'm a company level POG now too. I'm basking in the POGdom and skatery. I don't have to carry a SAW anymore.

Although I bet a tiny shameful part of you loves all that oorah crap.

I'm still just as much of a gun nut, but that's not the same. Some people confuse the two, especially when they overhear me and the armorers talking shop. I'm really more of a gear queer than a mo-****, but I'll be damned if I ever spend any of my money on personal tactical equipment in relation to my job.

DigitalWarrior
August 15, 2008, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by DigitalWarrior
You called?
I sure as hell did, and I already fixed the problem while I was waiting for your slow butt. :D

In response to the "You're slow" spoken in the range officer voice:

Sorry, I was at taco bell, at jack-in-the-crack, bowling, playing CallofDuty4, napping, or PTing (yeah right).

In the future for fastest service, please make sure to call during working hours (1000-1100 and 1400-1600) Tuesday through Friday. If you are approached by a man in a Che t-shirt, it might be "civvy friday" (to raise money for the marine corps ball).

Cpl. DigitalWarrior and the OSIdogs.

DigitalWarrior
August 15, 2008, 12:39 PM
I'll be damned if I ever spend any of my money on personal tactical equipment in relation to my job

I actually bought an alice pack on my own. I needed to carry a lot of books and tools periodically, and you cannot shoulder a piece of non-issue gear in uniform.

I also started wearing my watch on my right hand (a habit I still have not broken) because I spent so much time carrying crap with my left hand, while leaving my right free for the all important salute. When I needed to check the time (for chow of course), I could either put all the crap down or just wear the watch on the saluting hand.

And in 4 years, I never stopped saluting Navy Petty Officers :fire:

Freelance Tax Collector
August 15, 2008, 04:16 PM
In the future for fastest service, please make sure to call during working hours (1000-1100 and 1400-1600) Tuesday through Friday.

I'm sorry, grunt working hours are usually "oh-god-it's-dark-30" to "hey the sun's going down". :banghead: We usually only figure out we have a problem when it's almost close of business.

Gotta say, I'm in a clerk job now, and I'm learnin the POG ropes, and I think I'm in better mental condition than when I was humpin a SAW. :cool:

hoosier8
August 17, 2008, 11:19 PM
Man, my unit was full of smart guys. Not all of us cared much about politics. Not even the politics around the conflict we were fighting at the time. But some of us did. And there's no shortage of deep, philosophical or political discussion about EVERYTHING during downtime.

You never know what the hell kind of conversation you're going to run into when you walk up on five marines cleaning weapons. It might be how you'd like to boink your fireteam leader's sister, or it might be particle physics.

I talked about this thread with my daughter, who is a Marine, and she got absolutely defensive about the Liberal view. She knows enough people that have been in country to know that these views are on target.

When she joined, some of her friends would say things like, "How can you support Bush?", which I have heard. Her reply was, "I am supporting my friends." I cannot express the respect I have for my daughter.

DRZinn
August 18, 2008, 06:56 PM
The entire amount you get in one MRE is sufficent for one wipe, if you're careful.Depends if it's wet or dry. Dry, MRE paper is good for three wipes, four if you're careful.

ColinthePilot
August 18, 2008, 06:59 PM
I just saw it for the first time the other night. can't decide if I like it or not.

edit: after reading the thread, I'm talking about the show, not the MRE toilet paper.

gym
August 18, 2008, 08:33 PM
First three episodes were good, it fell down in 4 and 5 really sucked. That's what happens when actors try to direct. ImHO

Freelance Tax Collector
August 19, 2008, 11:55 PM
you cannot shoulder a piece of non-issue gear in uniform.

That's the type of thing I take issue with. My experience in the military has made me draw new conclusions of my perceptions of reality. In particular, my perspective of authority.

DigitalWarrior
August 20, 2008, 01:10 AM
Arbitrary rules make the Marine Corps.

Without them, we might have mustaches, carry umbrellas, salute with the left hand, start marching on the right foot, and keep hard liqueur in the barracks.

Do you really want a world where a PFC gets to pick which cammie pocket he irons the EGA on to?

Freelance Tax Collector
August 20, 2008, 02:01 AM
Do you really want a world where a PFC gets to pick which cammie pocket he irons the EGA on to?

Maybe that type of unconventional thinking is just what the marine corps needs to have better success in it's ultimate mission.

Edit: Okay, maybe I should clarify this: to neglect uniform regulations isn't something I'm trying to advocate. I understand that the purpose of a uniform is to impose a sense of purpose, but what I am talking about are actions which though not realized by the individuals who put them forward, end up detrimental to the Corps in the long run.

Some people can't wrap their head around the idea that nobody in my camp marches. If a platoon has to go to the armory, they just walk there. If a gear list says "bring 2 one-quart canteens" and I bring 2 collapsable two-quart canteens, should that be a problem? If people didn't get haircuts 4 times a month, they'd save $40 a month. If barracks life wasn't so terrible, maybe marines wouldn't get into poorly conceived marriages that would fail before that marines first enlistment is over, just to get BAH and live out in town/on base housing. Does this mean that marines should be allowed to grow dreadlocks? Or let a state of anarchy slip into the barracks? That's not what I'm trying to advocate. I'm just trying to say people should lighten up, not get wrapped around the axle, and not take some of these small issues too seriously. This would improve the Marine Corps, the military, and society.

But nobody's asking me.

cpttango30
August 20, 2008, 07:51 AM
What's the deal with Charms candy being bad luck.

I don't know if they are bad luck but if you want some one to shut up just shove a stick of Charmes in their mouth and make them chew. Their teeth will stick together for atleast 2 to 3 hours.

bogie
August 20, 2008, 03:12 PM
What gets me are the kiddies who join the service so they can get away from mommy and daddy...

And they're sullen little bitching complaining whining twits the entire time they're in... Ruins the whole day to have to deal with one...

I wasn't a jarhead, but I trained with a few. Fun guys, but power-drinking until 3:00ayem and getting out of the rack to run a few miles with a puke break just doesn't have that attraction for me...

Having been out for quite some time... The show strikes me as fairly genuine... The military, and war itself, is comprised of endless boredom, punctuated by the occasional few seconds of extreme panic.

Sergeant Sabre
August 20, 2008, 03:34 PM
Maybe that type of unconventional thinking is just what the marine corps needs to have better success in it's ultimate mission

The Marine Corps has done just fine for the last 332 years with the things the way they are.

If a gear list says "bring 2 one-quart canteens" and I bring 2 collapsable two-quart canteens, should that be a problem?

Yes it is a problem. You were told to bring 2 one-quart canteens, and you didn't.

If people didn't get haircuts 4 times a month, they'd save $40 a month.

And wouldn't look like Marines. You make enough to spare $40 each month.


I must say, though, I felt somewhat resentful toward the Marine Corps while I was in, too. Now that I'm out I can see why things were the way they were. If it wasn't that way, it wouldn't have been the Marines.

If we let people do whatever they want, bring gear they think is "close enough" rather than what they are told to bring, grow their hair, not pay attention to uniform maintenance, discipline, or tradition, then we'd just be the Army. :D

3pairs12
August 20, 2008, 03:54 PM
I stayed up until 2 last night watching some of the same episodes I have already seen. Can't wait until this Sunday. Saw some previews looks like Capt Amaerica is going to get beat up.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 20, 2008, 04:32 PM
The Marine Corps has done just fine for the last 332 years with the things the way they are.

True enough.

Yes it is a problem. You were told to bring 2 one-quart canteens, and you didn't.

Please don't insult my intelligence with this "do as I say" crap. They're still vessels designed to tactically transport water. I didn't come from an assembly line. Plenty of people have [sometimes approved] variations to their gear, to suit personal requirements/preferences. Sure you can make it company SOP that grenade pouches always go on the right side, and magazine pouches always go on the left side, but that screws over left handed guys.

And wouldn't look like Marines. You make enough to spare $40 each month.

I make enough to spend just as much money washing and waxing my jeep too, but I don't because IT'S A JEEP. I'm a grunt, not a recruiting poster. Twice a month is just fine. Once a week is ridiculous.

If we let people do whatever they want, bring gear they think is "close enough" rather than what they are told to bring, grow their hair, not pay attention to uniform maintenance, discipline, or tradition, then we'd just be the Army.

You're applying a "camel's nose under the tent" idea here. I'm not advocating that we not show up with required gear, grow our hair out like hippies, have uniforms that look like a bag of ass, and toss tradition out the window, I'm just saying that I think we go way too overboard. We could stand to chill out a little. We wouldn't be the army, we'd be flexible. Semper Gumby, right?

I think at worst we're growing to a mentality of "it doesn't matter if it get's done, just as long as it looks good while we're doing it".

siglite
August 20, 2008, 04:32 PM
What gets me are the kiddies who join the service so they can get away from mommy and daddy...

Some of us indeed did that. And by comparison, in some cases, military service was a cakewalk. Parris Island wasn't all that bad. It wasn't Disney, but it beats life on the streets.

And not all of us were "sullen little bitching complaining whining twits." Perhaps your experience was different from mine. But I found that often, the guys that joined to escape their home life made damn fine Marines.

Of course, I might be reading your post wrong. You may mean it in the sense that they thought military service was going to be like frat-house life.

siglite
August 20, 2008, 04:37 PM
You're applying a "camel's nose under the tent" idea here. I'm not advocating that we not show up with required gear, grow our hair out like hippies, have uniforms that look like a bag of ass, and toss tradition out the window, I'm just saying that I think we go way too overboard. We could stand to chill out a little. We wouldn't be the army, we'd be flexible. Semper Gumby, right?

It's this simple. Uniformity means logistic simplicity. There are hundreds of reasons, both logistical, and combat related for uniformity Corps wide.

Like... maybe you think it's a good idea to store your atropine injectors in your pack instead of the pocket on the gas mask carrier. You might have a hundred reasons why that's a good idea. And you might think Gunny's an a$$%^&* for INSISTING you be like everyone else and store your atropine injector where it's "supposed to go."

That is...

Until you're doing the funky chicken in a gas attack... flopping around on the deck... and the corpsman looks for the atropine where it's supposed to be...

Whoops. I mean... if yours isn't there, your SOL, because I'm damn sure not giving you mine in a live gas attack.

Uniformity has many purposes in military life. If you can't handle that, military life is probably not for you.

Cogz
August 20, 2008, 06:22 PM
I can't believe nobody corrected this already...

The Marine Corps has done just fine for the last 332 years with the things the way they are.

232 years Devildogs...

RobMoore
August 20, 2008, 07:28 PM
Haircuts have gone up since I got out. They cost $4 in the late 90s. Even $10 a week isn't too much to ask to not look like a squid.

It's an easy task to stop outside the gate on Sunday afternoon coming back from libbo to get one. Of course not so much if you're one of those Marines dragging yourself (or being carried)home at 2am Monday morning hoping to be ready for morning formation.

..back to the show, I enjoyed the 2-3 episodes my wife actually sat through, because of all the questions it sparked in her that she never thought to ask before. The non-marines at work have new questions every week as well (5 out of 16 people in my section are Marines, 4 of which, including myself, were infantry.

Sergeant Sabre
August 21, 2008, 01:48 AM
The Marine Corps has done just fine for the last 332 years with the things the way they are.
232 years Devildogs...

Wow.

I guess I failed the "Math for Marines" course...

Freelance Tax Collector
August 22, 2008, 01:44 PM
It's this simple. Uniformity means logistic simplicity. There are hundreds of reasons, both logistical, and combat related for uniformity Corps wide.

Yes, I understand this, and I completely agree, but your example highlights procedures born out of necessity. I'm talking about variations in terms of tactical flexibility, like placement of magazine pouches. That's the type of thing that should suit the individual operator, and not the commander's want for uniform appearance. Just like the traditional marksmanship range is a poor gauge of shooting under stress. Nobody goes to combat with a looped sling, shooting glove, data book, and sight black even though this is considered the "proper" way to shoot accurately.

Even $10 a week isn't too much to ask to not look like a squid.

So what you suggest by this comment is the haircut is the only thing that makes a marine look different from a sailor? If you get a haircut every 2 weeks instead of every one week, you won't look like a squid. and you'll save 50%/month. That's like one box of .308 match right there. I get a medium reg and have my top grown to about 2 inches. I look like a dork with short hair, and I don't care if I don't look like the guy on the recruiting poster.

Look, it comes down to this: I'm a cynical guy. I consider myself to be intelligent enough to understand the purpose behind lawful orders. But I also know when I'm being given orders for no other purpose than to follow them. In my opinion, some of the policies that are traditionally instituted are no more than the equivilant of a drill instructor screaming "RUN THIS WAY RIGHT NOW, RUN THAT WAY RIGHT NOW". Yes, there's a purpose for that too, and that is to instill discipline and loyalty, but I think as an operational force, we should be beyond that. It is my firm conviction that a unit will operate better when it doesn't get wrapped around that axle.

siglite
August 22, 2008, 02:20 PM
In my opinion, some of the policies that are traditionally instituted are no more than the equivilant of a drill instructor screaming "RUN THIS WAY RIGHT NOW, RUN THAT WAY RIGHT NOW". Yes, there's a purpose for that too, and that is to instill discipline and loyalty, but I think as an operational force, we should be beyond that. It is my firm conviction that a unit will operate better when it doesn't get wrapped around that axle.

It's my personal experience, that on base, the "do everything our way, yes, EVERYTHING" stuff is the norm. But in a combat theater, those rules relax quite a bit. When we went in-country in '91, a lot of that stuff the Sgt. Major is yapping constantly about in this series was just ignored. We didn't have anyone that fit that character. Oh, we had guys like that on base. But once we got off the boats and into enemy real-estate, that stuff was out the window and it became 100% about combat effectiveness.

Freelance Tax Collector
August 22, 2008, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I guess that's just garrison life for you.

RobMoore
August 22, 2008, 05:08 PM
Just like the traditional marksmanship range is a poor gauge of shooting under stress. Nobody goes to combat with a looped sling, shooting glove, data book, and sight black even though this is considered the "proper" way to shoot accurately.


That is why you have SOI or MCT after boot camp. Like learning how to shoot most any weapon, you have to learn precision before you can learn combat. I'm a pistol instructor, and students learn to do bullseye before they start drawing and shooting man-sized threats on the clock, multiple threats, moving shooting, ect.

3pairs12
August 24, 2008, 09:51 PM
For those who do watch the new episode is about to start.

FuzzyBunny
August 29, 2008, 02:13 PM
I guess that was the last episode.

It had alot of potential but came up way short.
Seems like that had a good budget to work with but they make it seem like it was just a long drive with some shooting every now and then.

Band of Brothers it was not.
I have heard a show was in the works about the pacific theater. The same folks that did BoB are doing it so it should be well worth the watch.

highorder
August 29, 2008, 02:50 PM
I guess that was the last episode.

It had alot of potential but came up way short.
Seems like that had a good budget to work with but they make it seem like it was just a long drive with some shooting every now and then.


I found myself wondering if a second season was in the works...

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