A question of readiness


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Oleg Volk
August 10, 2008, 11:57 PM
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/25334-2/homedefense6313.jpg

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Drgong
August 11, 2008, 12:05 AM
Great, +100, love the photo of wife and daughter on the table/dresser...

Nice gun too!

ants
August 11, 2008, 12:06 AM
My friend has a Stag AR made for lefthanders. He shoots much better in 3-gun, even though he swore he had been shooting right-hand guns all his life and didn't need the lefthand model. Maybe the guy in the photo would be interested in checking them out.

Very attractive family in the photo.

Big45
August 11, 2008, 12:20 AM
Boo. Makes the guy look like a mall ninja. Soccer mom sees that and thinks the whole culture is lunatic fringe. Way over the top.

kingpin008
August 11, 2008, 12:30 AM
Quite to the contrary - he's practicing proper gun safety (finger off the trigger) and doesn't come off as a "mall ninja" in any way. I think the setting (nicely decorated home, without a rebel flag or velvet elvis to be seen) along with the way the guy is dressed (casual, rather than bib overalls and a Dale Earnhart baseball cap or 5.1 tactical vest and boonie hat) do a lot to "legitimize" the choice of an AR.

And let's face it - soccermoms already paint us as the "lunatic fringe". This scene, I think, is pretty dang tame compared to the stuff they already imagine.

Big45
August 11, 2008, 12:34 AM
and doesn't come off as a "mall ninja" in any way

"In any way"? The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?

I don't even notice the family pic I'm to busy rolling my eyes at this rambo.

whosyrdaddy
August 11, 2008, 12:36 AM
High power rifle makes for a poor choice of HD gun. Makes me think of the bullet going through the BG, then the walls, then the little boy sleeping in the house next door. Shotgun would be much more appropriate.

armoredman
August 11, 2008, 12:37 AM
That's the point - the rifle only "gun nuts" have is in an obviously normal setting, normal person using it. I do like the way the background is setup. I could see this done again with a double barrel CAS shotgun, but it's fine the way it is.

Marcus84
August 11, 2008, 12:37 AM
Nice gun any info on it?

COMPNOR
August 11, 2008, 12:39 AM
If this is suppose to convince people on why carrying is a good thing, why having a gun for self-defense is a good thing, why not make it something that your average person is likely to keep for such an use? Not everybody needs or wants an AR to run around with.

Big45
August 11, 2008, 12:40 AM
That's the point - the rifle only "gun nuts" have is in an obviously normal setting, normal person using it.

Yes that is the point but pulled off way more effectively in the Armed America book with a similar rifle just propped up against the wall and the focus is on the family. This looks like the guy is all jazzed up to finally blow away the bad guys with his $2k arfcom special.

bobbarker
August 11, 2008, 02:45 AM
Yeah, that one looks a little out there to me. +1 on swapping it for a shotgun though. Far more practical for self defense. Rule 5: Know your target, and what Lies Beyond.

Sylvan-Forge
August 11, 2008, 02:55 AM
Excellent composition!

Excellent tool (Suppressed AR) for the job (Stopping home invaders RFN) too! Nice to keep one's hearing intact.

Nothing wrong with the old double barrel shottie of course, but not everyone has the skills and time needed to develope the skill set, recoil aclimation, shot patterning (collateral damage! friendly fire!) to use one successfully against any appreciable number of home invaders (more than 2?).

As for being PC .. that hasn't gotten the effort very far.

That his eyes are directed away from the viewer may give that "jazzed look" since you see more of the white's of his eyes..
You could say Guy's jazzed up because of the uninvited huns.

.223/5.56 does not over-penetrate, unless you're talking solids or AP.

.

Dark_Harvest
August 11, 2008, 03:38 AM
Big45... really?

Marcus84
August 11, 2008, 03:43 AM
Edited.

bogie
August 11, 2008, 04:48 AM
Oleg, do you know ANYONE who owns an ordinary lever action .30-30 or 12 gauge bird gun?

The Unknown User
August 11, 2008, 04:52 AM
"In any way"? The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?

I don't even notice the family pic I'm to busy rolling my eyes at this rambo.
If I had a home-defense rifle, it'd be that same setup.

A suppressor is going to (1) keep the noise down enough to prevent me from going deaf, (2)reduce the flash signature, thus saving my eyesight, and (3) the red dot sight is going to help in target acquisition.

bogie
August 11, 2008, 05:47 AM
I feel so inadequate... If I hear a bump in the night, I grab a cut-down Stevens 235 double-barreled side-by-side shotgun that's got to be at least 50-75 years old, maybe more, and is far from tacticool...

It's just got those two big holes in the business end...

Sylvan-Forge
August 11, 2008, 05:53 AM
Hey Bogie, if you can use it well, more power to ya! (I really want an o/u!)

It's just the whole EBR thing .. Evil Black Rifle .. and the ridiculous perpetuation. Maybe one day it will be seen as just a tool, rather than a weekend soldier's fantasy toy. Or worse, the preferred arm of the crack-pot militia loon.

Besides, we all know "terrorists" have the market on the AK-47 :p

.

Oleg Volk
August 11, 2008, 07:16 AM
Reasons for the SBR (a .22LR actually, just using a 223 magazine):

- truly non-gunnies won't know the difference
- I planned captions discussing the one advantage a lone defender can have against an invading gang: better weapon and training
- it's what the guy had on hand -- all his house guns are ARs

Powderman
August 11, 2008, 08:26 AM
To all the naysayers on this thread:

1. The AR15 is almost the ideal home defense rifle. With hollowpoint or softpoint rounds, 40 to 55 grain, wounding potential is tremendous, while overpenetration is almost eliminated.

2. They are VERY easy to control, allowing the presentation of multiple rounds on target in short order.

3. The suppressor will protect the ears of the shooter and innocent parties. The BG won't notice the sound--they'll be too busy ducking bullets and slipping in doo-doo.

4. The electronic dot sight allows fast target acquisition, even in total darkness.

5. For those of you who have chosen to belittle the photographer and call the guy in the picture Rambo, how many armed confrontations have YOU been in?

Oleg, as always, superior work.

SADshooter
August 11, 2008, 09:55 AM
If you've seen any of Oleg's previous work, he's created numerous posters of people protecting themselves with "normal" firearms. I happen to think reinforcing the principle is more important than the tools used, and I see a normal person using the best tools he can to perform his most vital function.

It was great to finally meet you, Oleg.

SADShooter

SSN Vet
August 11, 2008, 10:01 AM
Makes the guy look like a mall ninja. Soccer mom sees that and thinks the whole culture is lunatic fringe. Way over the top.

Despite whether or not the AR pictured is a suitable choice for home defense, I think there's some merit to the point that "tacticool" military looking add ons feed the "assault weapon" stereo types.

If the object is to get Jane and Joe Average to think about using a firearm for home defense, I'd suggest keeping it basic. Pump 12 ga., Revolver, etc...

Something Joe and Jane can picture themselves handling and is not to far outside of their world (i.e. Dad had a revolver that looked like that, or Grandpa had a shotgun that looked like that).

Even an A2 style AR (like Uncle Harry carried in the National Guard) would likely do the trick.

Grey_Mana
August 11, 2008, 10:20 AM
If you have the time, would you put on eye protection? Ear protection?
Ears seems arguable, in that you want to be able to hear what the invaders are doing. But eye protection seems like a good idea to me.

Justin
August 11, 2008, 10:28 AM
Oleg, I like this one.

Nice job with the drop shadow under his arm.

rbernie
August 11, 2008, 10:48 AM
Despite whether or not the AR pictured is a suitable choice for home defense, I think there's some merit to the point that "tacticool" military looking add ons feed the "assault weapon" stereo types.

If the object is to get Jane and Joe Average to think about using a firearm for home defense, I'd suggest keeping it basic. Pump 12 ga., Revolver, etc...
In my experience, folks that are scared of gun are scared of guns. A levergun or a SxS is not going to look any less scary to them. All they see is OMG! GUN!

On the other hand, I very much LIKE the idea of showing Eeeeevil Black Rifles in the hands of ordinary folk. That's an important message to send - just as important as it is to try to appeal to those folk who still remember Uncle Harry's scattergun.

Vaarok
August 11, 2008, 11:12 AM
I concur that the AR is not in keeping with the simplistic message intended. It's too intricate and it's black. A wheelgun, a shotgun, a levergun, those don't stir up the "okay with guns but want to draw limits" folks into their hemming and hawing over what constitutes okay.

For those people, a "military gun" is too alarming. To reach a broad audience, I have to say a shotgun is more appropriate.

mr.72
August 11, 2008, 11:30 AM
I agree. Whether or not a tacticool looking gun like that is a good choice for home defense, it is still "too much" for a lot of people.

The point is that it doesn't take a tacticool EBR to be "prepared", but the poster may inadvertently send that message.

30 cal slob
August 11, 2008, 11:47 AM
The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?

If you've ever run/trained in a shoothouse in complete darkness, you would appreciate that he's properly equipped, although I would also have a secondary weapon (pistol) just in case the primary malfs.

Drgong
August 11, 2008, 11:56 AM
I have no problems with the guy using a AR style rifle. After all, AR rifles are actually the most sold rifle, and it helps to remove the "Evil Black Rifle".

A AR or AK in .223 is a good SD gun. So is a shotgun but the RKBA is more then deer hunting.

Soybomb
August 11, 2008, 12:04 PM
Whats with all the "don't scare the soccer moms" talk? I like it, great image!

High power rifle makes for a poor choice of HD gun. Makes me think of the bullet going through the BG, then the walls, then the little boy sleeping in the house next door. Shotgun would be much more appropriate.
Stop by the rifle forum, there's lot of great posts in the library about why the .223 isn't a high power rifle and why it makes a really great home defense weapon.

strat81
August 11, 2008, 01:00 PM
"In any way"? The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?

I don't even notice the family pic I'm to busy rolling my eyes at this rambo.
Everything about the gun is practical.

The suppressor attenuates the report and flash, saving his ears and eyes.

The rail is an excellent way of mounting his laser (or is that a flashlight?).

Lasers help you aim. Aiming and putting shots on target is good for obvious reasons. Lights enable you to identify your target. They can also be used to blind/disorient an enemy.

Red dot sites are excellent for short distances and make shooting faster and easier. A quality red dot like an Aimpoint is incredibly durable and has a battery life that can outlast a presidential term.

Why an AR? 30rd mags, variety of ammo choices (frangible, bonded, FMJ, soft point, OTM), adjustable stock, ergonomic, easy to use, mild recoil, reliable, relatively compact.

gundog94
August 11, 2008, 04:00 PM
Hey Guys,
What if we painted it pink? Would that make everyone feel better. For those of you that don't know it, the AR-15 style rifle is THE #1 selling rifle in America. In my book, that makes it as normal it can get. While it may not be mt first choice for home defense, I'm not going to knock this guy for choosing it. I personally know him and I would trust his judgment when it comes to matters like these. Let quit bickering about what we think is correct or not and pull together as gun owners. United we stand, divided we fall.

BruceRDucer
August 11, 2008, 04:04 PM
Rifle? Check!
Magazine? Check!
Photo? Check!
Ammo? DOH!:what:

Rule556
August 11, 2008, 04:17 PM
Great poster.

mchgnmike
August 11, 2008, 04:48 PM
Absolutely a great picture. I use an AR-15 for home protection and if loaded with the correct ammunition it is as good or better as anything else, it definitely has the magazine capacity. I like to have a weapon light on my HD weapon but not everyone's agrees with that doctrine. Wouldn't it be a totally different picture if instead of the picture the family was in the corner with back-up weapons or extra magazines?

Strange the fella looks like someone I know?

tvone
August 11, 2008, 05:15 PM
I donít look like Rambo, and never worked security in a mall, but thatís me in the photo.

While some of you may disagree with my choice for a self-defense carbine, itís true that most of my long guns are ARís. Iíve never been hunting, so I donít see a need to have lever or bolt guns. I have nothing against hunting, but growing as a city boy, I didnít have any friends or relatives to learn that skill. Why would you choose a slower operating system? SXS or O/U shotguns leaves you defenseless after two shots. Do you tell the 3rd attacker to wait a few moments while you reload? Semi-autos are much easier to use with a single hand if necessary.

No shotguns for me for home defense. What if you need to make a precision shot? The laser, red dot, ergonomics, and the accuracy of the firearm combine to make it my weapon of choice. With our bedrooms scattered around the house, I would expect to have to make shots that hit their target, and I donít want to worry about an errant 00 buck pellet.

Shooting indoors is painfully loud, and can cause permanent damage. Suppressors are solid HD tools. What about the other people in the room? While this firearm is a .22lr, my next one will be for a 5.56mm. I wish I could find someone to build a dedicated 5.56mm upper similar to the .22lr that is pictured.

$2,000 ARFCOM Special? No where near that amount in the firearm, but definitely well researched and most items were purchased from vendors on that site. Total cost including the tax stamp was under $1000.00.

Upper was built by RCS Guns in Anna, Texas. Not really that more expensive than any other dedicated .22lr, but a lot more fun. A high quality unit that uses a modified Ciener kit.

Iím still debating the use of a dedicated light. Since I have a few kids around the house, I worry about sweeping someone I know with a barrel mounted light.

Not in the picture but there is my cell phone and backup pistol, and just as important, two canines and a backup shooter. (My wife, who prefers a 9mm AR for the house)

Ammo choice for 5.56mm in the house; Hornady TAP, and Federal 9mm +P+ for the handguns and 9mm AR.

KelVarnson
August 11, 2008, 05:51 PM
Brings up a thought I had. If you have K-9's, it could be better to have a rifle than a shotgun. The dogs might not move out of the target area when you try to call them off, and so you'd be less likely to hit them with a rifle.

Tvone thanks for the info.

WayneConrad
August 11, 2008, 05:54 PM
Beautiful. Don't change a thing.

springmom
August 11, 2008, 06:14 PM
Oleg, this one is TERRIFIC! Don't change a thing.

In point of fact, a poster that shows a normal, plain-old-vanilla middle aged guy with an AR also helps to normalize the rifle. As it should. Modern rifle design is not spawned by the Seventh Circle of Hell, and it's past time that we tried to make that point. And this is a good way to do it.

(And thanks for doing one for us Youth Challenged folks) :D

Springmom

Robert14
August 11, 2008, 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by Big45
"In any way"? The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?


To go check on the noise downstairs? Apologies, but I thought it read "home invasion"...

Oleg,
Love your website(s).

ilcylic
August 11, 2008, 07:12 PM
Looks like Correia's rifle. :D

bogie
August 11, 2008, 07:16 PM
Iz too small to be Larry's rifle.

Larry's shoots through houses.

surfinguru
August 11, 2008, 07:25 PM
I like it, but as others have pointed out, it might be a little to "militant" looking.

All I want to know is: How/where can I get that gun in CA?!?!

Huddog
August 11, 2008, 07:26 PM
My first impression was "How would you justify that gun to the jury?" However, there have been many good points made which have made me realize how easy it would be to do so. So I say keep it as is. Not that I expect Oleg to keep it or change it because I say so. By the way Mister Peace your argument would be much more effective if correctly spelled. Unless of course I am again missing the sarcasim.

f4t9r
August 11, 2008, 07:36 PM
I like it. Use what you want for HD. The question is what makes one think. Would you be ready if a gang did invade your home?

sprithitler
August 11, 2008, 07:38 PM
I like the picture, points to the fact that you use the best you can get to protect the most valuable things in youir life, your family.

tpaw
August 11, 2008, 09:13 PM
High power rifle makes for a poor choice of HD gun. Makes me think of the bullet going through the BG, then the walls, then the little boy sleeping in the house next door. Shotgun would be much more appropriate.

+1 on that one.

Burt Blade
August 11, 2008, 09:41 PM
Basically, anything launched from a firearm will go through the common drywall-void-drywall internal walls in most US homes. See the web site http://www.theboxotruth.com for a rather thourough demonstration with real guns, ammo, and drywall. Even lowly birdshot made it through two layers of drywall. Buckshot did much better.

Nolo
August 11, 2008, 09:42 PM
Boo. Makes the guy look like a mall ninja. Soccer mom sees that and thinks the whole culture is lunatic fringe. Way over the top.

"In any way"? The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?

I don't even notice the family pic I'm to busy rolling my eyes at this rambo.
Remember Heller? It was work like this, saying "Look, self-defense is legitimate and, yes, the scary AR is a great, normal choice for the average person" that helped that decision to come out like it did.
Now the next hurdle is suppressors. This work is perfectly legitimate and in good taste, not mall-ninja-esque at all. Though I do think the laser kinda takes away from the picture, but that's only because I think it looks ugly.

Joe Cool
August 11, 2008, 09:59 PM
Why not make multiple versions with different firearms and then call in some 'gun neutral or gun ignorant' focus groups and get their opinions? We can debate all we want, but I think getting the 'voices' from those with whom we are trying to communicate the message is important too. Just my two cents...

COMPNOR
August 11, 2008, 11:09 PM
Let quit bickering about what we think is correct or not and pull together as gun owners. United we stand, divided we fall.


So lets see....we're then just suppose to be blind sheeple and accept the poster for it is all in the name of coming together?

If the point of the poster is to preach to the choir, then its fine.

If its suppose to get those who don't like guns, or indifferent about guns to "come over to our side" then I think its a wrong choice of firearm.

Of course this is what tvone uses, and that's cool. I don't think your average person though would be looking for that setup.

My opinion is what is it is. YMMV

VPLthrneck
August 11, 2008, 11:35 PM
I don't think your average person though would be looking for that setup.

I guess most of the non-gun owners that I'm stationed with aren't average then. When we get to talking about guns at work, the common question from non-owners and even fence sitters is that they want to own/shoot an AR. They even express shock that several of us don't. To them an AR is what the average person should own.

Oleg, great pic.
tvone, nice rifle.

siglite
August 11, 2008, 11:41 PM
hahahah

It looks like we not only need to de-sensitize and demystify "Evil Black OMGZORZ SKEERY" rifles to soccer moms, but THR members as well.

I like the poster.

tvone
August 11, 2008, 11:56 PM
5.56mm is not a "High Powei"round. The distance in a house will keep even FMJ within the fragmentation threshold of 2700fps. You might need pinpoint accuracy and not the wide pattern of a "cut down" shotgun. Why would an AR be a good choice for a new shooter than a shotgun?
1) Easy to use
2) Less recoil
3) More accurate
4) More capacity

Red dot and laser make it easier for everyone in the house to make a good shot. Everyday people should be encouraged to use the most effective tools they can get.

edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)

I use the laser as an aiming device, not to identify targets. It does not give enough light to verify a face. If my laser is on a target, it's about to get shot after I identified it as a threat. I'll I.D. first with a light.

oneslowgun
August 12, 2008, 12:02 AM
The poster is just fine as it is. In fact, it is just the exact thing we should be promoting.

taliv
August 12, 2008, 12:16 AM
tvone, good luck educating them. a suppressed ar15 in 223 is about the perfect HD weapon.

in fact, I suspect the main reason handguns are so popular for HD these days is so many younger people only own a handgun for ccw.

oleg, nice work.

when i saw the picture, my first thought was, "hey, another lefty".... followed by, "his watch is on his right hand... oleg must have reversed the image"... then, "where's the ejection port??". i guess some people just wear their watches on the other hand.


siglite, no doubt. but then, we've always had enough to put together our own 'gun ignorant' focus groups. you can lead a horse to water...


edit: btw, tvone, why would you not want to sweep someone with white light but be ok with sweeping them with a laser? (not to mention the muzzle)

3KillerBs
August 12, 2008, 03:52 PM
I like that one a lot. Normal-looking guy with modern gun and the family picture on the dresser -- it gives a feel of "home defense isn't just for rednecks".

Sistema1927
August 12, 2008, 06:55 PM
I like it.

I only wish that my HD AR looked like that one! Oh well, nothing that lots of money can't solve.

neviander
August 12, 2008, 07:48 PM
The guy has a friggin suppressed, quad railed, laser equipped, $700 red dotted AR to go check on the noise downstairs and he's not mall ninjaish in any way?
lmao, I got a good belly laugh out of that. I don't have a problem with using whatever for HD purposes, but the average joe and/or jane that looks at that poster is going to see nothing but overkill/paranoia.

CDignition
August 12, 2008, 08:04 PM
Im starting to wonder if some of you guys are actually interested in guns at all..Some people never cease to amaze.

Kharn
August 12, 2008, 09:32 PM
To us, its a tricked-out AR15 with a suppressor and all the goodies.
To an anti, its an evil baby-killing death machine.
To a fence-sitter, its a black gun with a very thick barrel.

I'm not very worried about it.

Kharn

tvone
August 12, 2008, 09:44 PM
Modern times and modern firearms.

Your soccer moms and liberal fence sitters should be made aware that they shouldn't be afraid of new technology in their hybrid vehicles or progressive firearms.

Powderman
August 13, 2008, 04:08 AM
TVone, if you like the suppressed goodies, Gemtech is your friend. They market adapters and quick release mounts for all their cans. You could purchase a number of uppers for different purposes--a 24" match for varmint or target, a 20" for fun, plinking and general purposes, and a 16" carbine length. Heck, you might even consider going the 10.5 or shorter SBR route, with the can mounted.

I also like your choice of ammo. That's the good stuff.

The only real correction I would make is to have two mags jungle clipped. Load with 28 rounds each, and you have 56 rounds available. That should do ya!

JShirley
August 16, 2008, 12:30 PM
High power rifle

This is NOT a "high power rifle". By definition, all assault rifles (M16, AK-47, etc) and their civilian-legal counterparts fire intermediate power rounds like the .223 and 7.62x39mm.

Some fairly highly trained individuals favor a shotgun for HD, but probably at least as many experts suggest or favor a good carbine. I'm not an expert, but I have fired thousands of rounds from a carbine in CQB training environments, and I'm at home with a shotgun. I would choose the carbine for social work in a military setting or for HD (unless in bear country) every time.

TV, welcome to THR. Glad to have you.

Oleg, I think the picture in the background is an excellent addition.

John

papajohn
August 16, 2008, 01:55 PM
I see nothing wrong with the rifle. It is a perfectly logical choice. Were I confronted with a Home Invasion scenario, that is exactly what I'd want to have. With a handgun as backup. The AR platform is rightfully becoming the "Everyman"s rifle.
PJ

SoCalShooter
August 16, 2008, 02:35 PM
++++ thats an awesome one Oleg. Keep up the good work.

azhunter122
August 16, 2008, 02:38 PM
Great job on that one!

whosyrdaddy
August 16, 2008, 10:50 PM
This is NOT a "high power rifle". By definition, all assault rifles (M16, AK-47, etc) and their civilian-legal counterparts fire intermediate power rounds like the .223 and 7.62x39mm.


Any bottom fed semi auto handgun, by definition, is a machine gun.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman............

Read my lips. No new taxes.

Iraq has WMDs and is in cahoots with Osama.

to protect and serve

The check is in the mail.

This will only hurt a little bit

for the sake of the children.....

JShirley
August 17, 2008, 02:37 PM
I understand that you're making a point, but your first is NOT an accepted definition. In general, the ATF definition of a machine gun is: any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger...
(ß 5845 (b))

hrgrisso
September 4, 2008, 05:08 PM
Oleg great job. I know us as gunnies see it as a suppressor but I think most people would just see it (as earlier mentioned) a really thick barrel. For the poster I don't think the double mag as suggested would be necessary.

Tyris
September 4, 2008, 05:40 PM
High power rifle makes for a poor choice of HD gun. Makes me think of the bullet going through the BG, then the walls, then the little boy sleeping in the house next door. Shotgun would be much more appropriate.

When did 223 become "high power"? It is adequate for coyotes, marginal for deer. Or is high power code word for "anything more than 22LR"?

I've never seen a 223 that would go through people, walls and more people in other domiciles. It sounds like you're confusing .223 with 20mm. :confused::confused:

I've seen 55gr 223 that would not penetrate 2 phonebooks.

-T

taprackbang
September 4, 2008, 05:48 PM
Oh Oleg you should have had a .50 BMG. in the picture. Now that would have been a hoot!

Oleg are you a PTR 91 / HK 91 lover? Could not help but notice the pretty Indian gal holding a PTR in picture gallery.

Nolo
September 4, 2008, 06:08 PM
Oleg are you a PTR 91 / HK 91 lover? Could not help but notice the pretty Indian gal holding a PTR in picture gallery.
It's my understanding that it is the girl in the picture who is a PTR-91/HK91/G3 lover, not Oleg.
Though I'm sure he likes 'em, too.

Scoutsout2645
September 4, 2008, 06:28 PM
I like the pic, I think the setting and the look of the guy is perfect for portraying HD as something that is acceptable for a "normal" person. I agree that an AR is just as suitable as a shotgun for HD (I choose to use my 12ga as a primary, but have my own AR close at hand as a secondary longarm), and I don't think the weapon or the suppresor is a negative here.

Something to think about though, especially if the target audience is borderline antis or neutrals. I sent 2 pics of ARs to a non-gun guy friend of mine--one had stock A2 handguards and carry handle and the second one had quad-rail handguards and a flat-top. His impression of the same gun was neutral to the first and negative to the second simply because the rails, etc. looked too much like "the creature in Aliens". Not a rational reaction, an emotional one. But it is that initial reaction we have to deal with when marketing our cause. I'd say keep the AR, change the handguards.

By the way, after I explained why it was an advantage to have an AR that looks like an Alien, his opinion of it became better. The key is to get them thinking positively about the idea of guns, then educate them about how appearances are practical instead of scary.

Eyesac
September 4, 2008, 06:32 PM
I like it!

joffe
September 4, 2008, 06:35 PM
Boo. Makes the guy look like a mall ninja. Soccer mom sees that and thinks the whole culture is lunatic fringe. Way over the top.
Again, promoting the 'hunting rifle good black rifle bad' mindset. It's better to get people used to the black rifle being every man's rifle rather than something you only see in movies and Iraq. If it's there in the back of people's minds along with the hunting rifle, shotgun, snubby and apple pie the next AWB will not be well received.

Raccoon
September 5, 2008, 11:39 AM
In my opinion, Oleg has already produced dozens of home defense posters for the tame john & jane. The idea behind this poster is to show that home defense isn't limited to 50 year old technology, and that laws should reflect this fact.

And when push comes to shove, being a little extreme helps when compromises in legislation are made. Demand a lot to take a little; standard procedure.

PS. I -do- agree with the suppressor and dotted sight. If it comes down to "here honey, back me up" you want a weapon that is easy to use and wont turn the family (survivors of home invasion) into handicap deafs. I'd argue that the chestnut cabinetry in the background should be replaced with a high definition TV and audiophile sound setup with 8.1 speaker system.

JKimball
September 5, 2008, 04:01 PM
Oleg,

I think you hit a home run with this one. That is a dang good question that every household should be asking itself.

When the lives and safety of your family are at stake, why settle for anything less than the best defensive tool that you can afford?

What is the best tool for CQB? Doesn't it make sense to take a look at what the professionals (SWAT, US Military) are using? tvone is right on.

Americans generally admire our soldiers and SWAT operators and this is exactly the kind of rifle they associate with them.

It looks like we not only need to de-sensitize and demystify "Evil Black OMGZORZ SKEERY" rifles to soccer moms, but THR members as well.

Exactly what I was thinking, siglite!

tvone
September 5, 2008, 04:15 PM
I'd argue that the chestnut cabinetry in the background should be replaced with a high definition TV and audiophile sound setup with 8.1 speaker system.

You didn't see the other side of the room.:D

papajohn
September 5, 2008, 07:39 PM
I can't have suppressors or "silencers" in Missouri, but my next home-defense tool will be inspired by that poster. A shorty "muffled" AR with a red dot is pretty darn close to the perfect answer to the Home-invasion/possible- multiple-adversary scenario. I keep a set of electronic muffs next to my bed, and when I hear something odd, I put them on, crank up the volume, and listen. I can hear conversations on the other side of the brick wall, and can usually tell pretty quickly if what's going on is a threat, or a drunken neighbor.

As for the gun being "too scary looking", or not PC, screw that notion. Nobody PC is gonna break in my house and rob/kill me, so their opinion doesn't count. When the "Elitists" have been through the same situation, they can comment on my choice of weaponry. And if they've been through anything similar, they'd probably be eyeing my rig with a jealous eye, and thinking about getting one just like it!

As I like to reiterate, every Liberal is one mugging away from enlightenment!

PJ

Dihappy
September 5, 2008, 09:54 PM
High power rifle makes for a poor choice of HD gun. Makes me think of the bullet going through the BG, then the walls, then the little boy sleeping in the house next door. Shotgun would be much more appropriate.

Uhh, incorrect.

Tests have shown the .223 to be a GREAT round for home defense.

The final results were that the .223 demonstrated less penetration capability than the 12 gauge slug and the .40S&W

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=27

Scoutsout2645
September 5, 2008, 11:32 PM
Papajohn:
As for the gun being "too scary looking", or not PC, screw that notion. Nobody PC is gonna break in my house and rob/kill me
I'm not saying it's not a good HD rig, and anyone who's already pro- isn't going to think anything about bad that setup. My question is who is the target audience? Is it neutrals who could be shown that you don't have to wear camo, live on some militia compound, or have gang tats in order to consider a military-style firearm as suitable for HD? Or is it to bring pro-gun viewers up to date with modern technology for HD consideration? If the first, I'd alter the image. If the second, leave it be.
Just my 2 cents.

Oleg Volk
September 5, 2008, 11:33 PM
Aimed at people who agree with the theory of self-defense but need to get off their butts and get trained and armed.

Scoutsout2645
September 6, 2008, 11:34 AM
Fair enough--In that case, where's his 3 point sling? He doesn't want to just drop the rifle if he has to transition to the .45 on his belt, does he? :D

joffe
September 6, 2008, 02:55 PM
Three point slings are unnecessarily complex, most of the time they're in the way..

http://www.vickerstactical.com/SlingPage/CombatSling.htm

This is what you want :)

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