ZM Weapons AR15 .vs SIG 556 SWAT folder


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Click Click Boom
August 11, 2008, 12:58 AM
What are the pro's and con's of these two rifles?

If you were given a choice between these two rifles what would be in your safe?

Lets say this would be a 2nd or 3rd .223/5.56 rifle and mostly a range toy.

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marktx
August 11, 2008, 01:07 AM
Didn't look at the ZM AR but checked out some others and bought the Sig.

Click Click Boom
August 11, 2008, 01:12 AM
Why the SIG? for the ones that have voted for it.

Why the ZM?.....................

It seems that the ZM is lighter than the Sig.

Tarvis
August 11, 2008, 01:52 AM
I have no idea what ZM is, but I'd take an AR over a 556 due to cost, part availability and something I heard about the 556 having problems. The only benefit I know about (there may be more, but the one main) is the piston system which is another can of worms. IF you wanted a piston, then only one of those is a piston-operated rifle.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 11, 2008, 12:39 PM
Well since a lot of people who look at the SIG are concerned about the direct impingment system of the AR, it is worth pointing out that the ZM is still a direct impingement gas system. It just has reworked the recoil spring system so that you can have a folding stock.

Hoppy590
August 11, 2008, 01:28 PM
I have no idea what ZM is, but I'd take an AR over a 556 due to cost...

ZM was Yankee Hill Machine's line of AR rifles. i dont believe they are still being produced by YHM. but YHM is a well known name in AR accessory's such as BUIS, rails, and more. not to mention a complete line of suppressors

Hoppy590
August 11, 2008, 01:32 PM
ah, here we go
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=369549
You will have to wait a litte, Para Ord.
bought the rights to Z-M Systems and will be selling them shortly.

I wil be posting the order # and address soon on our web.

Thanks for asking

--------------Allan --------------

George Hill
August 11, 2008, 06:52 PM
And how much is a ZM? Where can you get a ZM? What if you want 4 of them?
SIGs are available and affordable... and backed up by freaking SIG.
SIG wins.
http://www.oldmovies.net.au/userimages/user1367_1175919775.jpg
http://www.imfdb.org/images/5/5d/Ronin-Sig-551.jpg
De Niro says so.

Click Click Boom
August 11, 2008, 07:07 PM
The ZM is DI but they moved the key out of the upper recoever and into the handguard. So you have the weight savings of DI and no dirty like a normal DI AR setup. You get all the good of a piston with noe of the bad.

lloydkristmas
August 11, 2008, 08:52 PM
I dont know what the ZM is, but in hearing that it is a DI system as opposed to the SIG, I'd pick the SIG. Plus, the SIG folder just looks sweet.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 12, 2008, 10:32 AM
The ZM is DI but they moved the key out of the upper recoever and into the handguard. So you have the weight savings of DI and no dirty like a normal DI AR setup. You get all the good of a piston with noe of the bad.

You understand how the AR works right? Because moving the gas key to the handguard would do nothing to stop gas or carbon from coming back into the upper receiver. The gas goes into the gas key and is channeled down into the bolt carrier where it pushes against the gas rings of the bolt and starts the unlocking process. You can put the gas key anywhere you like; but as long as they are unlocking the bolt with direct impingement, gas is still getting directed to the bolt/bolt carrier in the long run.

Check out this 1966 Training Film (http://www.archive.org/details/Rifle556mmXM16E1OperationandCycleofFunctioningTF93663) for a nice explanation of how direct impingement works in the AR.

Personally I think the concerns with DI fouling are way overblown; but there is no physical way that a ZM rifle is moving that fouling into the handguard and still operating as a DI rifle.

Click Click Boom
August 12, 2008, 11:42 AM
ZM posted a really informative thread on Ar15 on how there system works. But it has been archived so I cant see it anymore.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 12, 2008, 12:21 PM
You can download the LR300 manual (http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/lr300.pdf) from AR15.com and see exactly what I am talking about as well.

The LR300 has a really long gas key and a shorter bolt carrier; but a quick look at the diagram will show that all the really long gas key does is take the same gas that makes an AR15 dirty and direct it to the bolt and bolt carrier (where it ends up in an AR15).

The upper receiver of the LR300 will probably see marginally less fouling because as the bolt carrier cycles back, the excess gas will bleed off under the handguard instead of in the upper receiver; but you will still have a bolt covered in carbon (and the baked on carbon on the tail) using an LR300 system.

Like I said earlier, I don't think either of those are practical issues; but if you think that the LR300 bolt/bolt carrier doesn't get dirty or carbon-fouled like any other DI rifle, you would be mistaken. It will see both of those and it will be dirtier than a comparable piston rifle.

oef24
October 9, 2008, 02:32 AM
I have both the ZM and the SIG 556 SWAT. I have owned the ZM for many years and it has seen much more use than the SIG. They are both great and I have had no problems with either. The stock on the ZM is awesome and it doesn't weigh as much as the SIG. I find it hard to choose between the two if I had to pick just one.

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