[JE223]

Special thanks to JK for sponsoring this test.

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Brass Fetcher ballistic testing

Test # JK 10
Bare gelatin test. (Nominal 10% concentration)

Cartridge : .327 Magnum Speer 115gr Gold Dot JHP

Block Calibration : 3.5 ± 0.05 inch penetration @ 586 ± 0.5 ft/sec

Block Calibration temperature : 35.0 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Block Core temperature : 35.0 ± 0.05 Degrees Fahrenheit

Bullet Performance:

Impact Velocity : 1326 ± 0.5 feet/second
Deepest Penetration Depth : 14.9 ± 0.05 Inch
Maximum Crack Diameter : 2.8 ± 0.05 Inch
Max Crack Diameter Location : 1.7 ± 0.05 Inch
Cavitation Depth : 0.0-12.9 ± 0.05 Inch

Notes:
Weapon – Ruger SP101, with 3.1” barrel length
Distance – 10.0 feet, muzzle to gelatin impact face
Test site conditions - 69 deg F, 43% relative humidity
Time out of refrigeration prior to shot impact - 5 minutes
Bullet recovered weight – 118.2 ± 0.05gr
Bullet recovered average diameter - 0.505 ± 0.0005"
Bullet recovered length - 0.444 ± 0.0005"

http://www.brassfetcher.com/JK 10 Side View.JPG
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http://www.brassfetcher.com/JK 10 Top View.JPG
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http://www.brassfetcher.com/JK 10 Bullet View.JPG

[Shade00]

Fifteen inch penetration out of a 3" barrel with expansion to 1/2 an inch. Here's hoping S&W decides to give us a J-frame with this puppy.

[pps]

Thanks for the post. Any word on when Brassfetcher will have the ner web page fully operational?

[XDShooter07]

I was wondering the same thing. Nice results on this one. I agree with Shade, I'd love to see a J-frame built for this.

[loplop]

Nice test, John. Thanks for the funding JK :cool:

One Q: recovered bullet weight is 118.2. Do the speer 115's weigh 118, on average? Anyone know?

Inquiring minds want to know--how's the recoil?

[LongRider]

Excellent review thank you

[Mike Franklin]

Ah yes, another new round that serves no new purpose. I need to buy a box, my son can sell'm to a cartridge collector when he's my age.

[LightningMan]

I too, would like to see a 6 shot, J-framed Smith in this caliber but I think I'd really like to see a smaller more concealable 5 shot revolver in this new round. I own a J-frame .357 now and while very concealable for me in medium to heavy clothing it becomes a bit harder if not impossable in light summer wear, so in summer months I opt for smaller caliber guns like the .380 Ruger LPC. LM

[Drgong]

Actually Mike, it does serve a nice result for wheelguns, the small CCW five shot .357s can be made into nice Six shooters with .327.

Seriously thinking about getting a .327 myself..

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the test! I've been curious how these would perform.

The .327 fills a gap left by the high octane .32-20's passing into antiquarian realms. It's a high velocity .32 handgun and (I hope) levergun round.

[9x19sig]

Wow, just......wow. Even though most feel like this cartridge isn't needed, that doesn't change the fact that this is serious performance. Those that aren't afraid of change are going to have a good time with the cartridge.

Just like that newfangled 5.56x45 round that everyone shunned, this cartridge will eventually be accepted on the grounds of real performance whether the naysayers like it or not.

[Jim March]

Um, yeah, these things seem to WORK.

Look at the pic of that one round. It's not that far from "bottomed out". It'll probably still be OK with an extra inch of barrel but much past that and it could come unglued.

On the other hand, that means this load should still work well from a 2" barrel. And THAT means that a sixgun in this caliber with a 2" barrel and the same size as a J-class snub would be a damned effective weapon.

Also a newbie-friendly weapon, as it can handle 32Magnum and 32S&W/S&WLong fodder for lower-recoil practice or in the case of a recoil-shy newbie, 32H&R has some decent defenders.

The hole spacing is the same as existing 32-cal J-class sixguns so speedloaders exist right now. Ditto holsters. So we don't need all-new support systems.

This is a damned fine setup.

[rantingredneck]

I'm impressed.

I have to admit I saw this cartridge as being unnecessary when it first came out.

Now I want one..........

[OldCowHand]

I'm looking at this round as well, and like the penetration, but doesn't the cavitation channel look a bit skinny?

[XDShooter07]

It's a skinny round.... But it's expansion is beautiful and it's opening up to its maximum potential. It's also transferring quite a bit of energy. Those cavitations can be deceiving though, I'd like to see it injected with dye.

[Cosmoline]

Cavitation doesn't get you much this side of an amped up .44 magnum or rifle round. I'm more interested in reliable expansion and good penetration, which this round seems to deliver.

[Drgong]

Himm..I think I need to make a phone call to my fav. gunstore to see if they have one of these in stock...

Edit: Looks like if they don't have one, they will get me one, as apprently they been flying off the shelves...

[RyanM]

Looks like good stuff. I thought that said ".357 magnum" at first, and said to myself "huh, looks like a re-worked treasury load. Works a lot better than the original one. Not too shabby at all." Then I read the replies.

I wouldn't be opposed to owning one of those at all, in a 2" snubby platform.

[Old Fuff]

Folks, keep in mind that the 327 Magnum is not your Grandfather’s .32… It generates pressures in the 40,000 psi range, and is almost the ballistic equivalent of the .30 M1 Carbine. :eek: This is not what you want in an ultra-light S&W J-frame platform. :scrutiny:

[Mike Franklin]

If you don't think you can defend yourself with a 5 shot .357, how are you doing to do it with a slightly less powerful .32 with just one more bullet? Why not get a 7 or 8 shot Auto?
Is this the new Mall Ninja special?

[JackCrow]

I'm not a ballistician but how can it have a "recovered" weight greater than it's starting weight?

I also agree with Old Fuff, I would not want to shoot this round from a super lightweight gun.

[Drgong]

Mike, perhaps we want something with more power then the .38 special, but want something that has less recoil and is faster to reaim.

Many people can handle a .357 in a snubby recoil, but it is not enjoyable to shoot, I have not shot a .327 but it will be a nicer shooting gun then a .357, and that means more more shooting of the gun, and better markmanship.

Perhaps this will answer this better then me.

From a 3 1/16-inch revolver, the 100-grain Soft Point .327 Magnum load develops 100 fps more velocity than a 125-grain .357 Magnum from a four-inch revolver, and delivers only 35 ft/lbs less energy. The recoil of the .327 Magnum 85-grain Personal Defense load is less than half the recoil of a 125-grain .357 Magnum.

[DawgFvr]

Actually, Taurus has already introduced the J frame .327 mag in last year's gun show:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/DawgFvr/PT145/327magTarui85jpg.jpg

I wish Ruger would jump on this...but it seems like only Taurus listens to their customers.

[JE223]

The recovered weight is higher than the starting bullet weight because the bullet was weighed before removal of the gelatin (that gets trapped behind folded-back jacket segments).

[Schmidlin]

Charter arms also has put out 2 revolvers for this round. A 2.2inch snubby and a 4in 6 round wheel gun.


And ruger does have a gun for this, actually it was the reason federal did the round. They have a SP101 in .327 6 shot.

[Jim March]

It generates pressures in the 40,000 psi range, and is almost the ballistic equivalent of the .30 M1 Carbine. This is not what you want in an ultra-light S&W J-frame platform.

Agreed. It makes all kinds of sense in a 26oz Ruger SP101, and would be reasonable in the 20-21oz range (steel S&W snub).

[Schmidlin]

Hey if they want something in a S&W give it to them, maybe they will stop complaining. :)

[XDShooter07]

The round is described as having 20% less recoil than a .357. I understand recoil is completely objective but I imagine that gets us pretty close to the recoil of .38+P. With the round offering better ballistic performance than .38+P with similar recoil I fail to see what makes this an unsuitable round for a lightweight snub.

[Vicious-Peanut]

This round looks extremely promising. I admit that at first I was leary of it since it was only .31 caliber and all, but it expands nicely and penetrates wonderfully. It would be very, very nice in an SP101 and especially a levergun.

[Drgong]

unless I am somehow fall in love with another gun before then, I am saving up my money for a SP101 in this .327... will let the board know how it shoots :)

The more I read about it, the more of a fan I become.

[GTSteve03]

With the round offering better ballistic performance than .38+P
I'm confused. How is this better than the old-standard 158gr +P FBI load?

[RyanM]

I'm not a ballistician but how can it have a "recovered" weight greater than it's starting weight?

They could also just weigh more than the weight that's on the box. I've pulled a bunch of "36 grain" .22s, which were actually 38 to 40 grains.

[Shade00]

I never said I wanted an Airweight. I would love to have it in a stainless steel hammerless S&W.

[XDShooter07]

I'm confused. How is this better than the old-standard 158gr +P FBI load?

Here are some velocity and energy numbers from the manufactures' websites for some of the most popular .38+P rounds and the only 3 .327 Mag rounds currently available. The only .327 Mag round that doesn't beat out all the other numbers is the Federal Hydrashock; the Buffalo Bore .38+P beats it out in muzzle energy; I imagine that's because it's an 85 grain bullet, and from what I've read Buffalo Bore loads their ammo very hot, even for +P. The other two .327 rounds beat out all of the ammunition listed below "in the numbers" (the Buffalo Bore comes close though). I have to wonder what the numbers would be on a .327 Mag loaded by Buffalo Bore??? Please bear in mind I'm not implying that the .327 is an all around better round. I said that it had similar recoil and better "ballistics." None of this is from first hand experience. The recoil is from what those have used it thus far have reported and the ballistics are numbers reported from the manufactures'. The numbers are the facts of the "ballistics" and they speak for themselves.

From what it looks like if you want to go with a .327 Mag round, right now the one to go with would be the Speer, unless you want a solid tip.

If anybody wants any other rounds added to this list let me know and I'll edit it in.


Federal 129 grain .38+P Hydrashock JHP:

Muzzle Velocity = 950
50Y Velocity = 904
Muzzle Energy = 258
50Y Energy = 234

Remington 158 grain .38+P LHP and LSWC (FBI):

Muzzle Velocity = 890
50Y Velocity = 855
Muzzle Energy = 278
50Y Energy = 257

Buffalo Bore 158 Grain .38+P LSWCHP (From SP101 3"):

Muzzle Velocity = 1143
50Y Velocity = Not Available
Muzzle Energy = 458
50Y Energy = Not Available

Cor-Bon 110 grain .38+P DPX CHP:

Muzzle Velocity = 1050
50Y Velocity = Not Available
Muzzle Energy = 269
50Y Energy = Not Available

Glaser 100 grain .38+P Pow'RBall:

Muzzle Velocity = 1150
50Y Velocity = Not Available
Muzzle Energy = 294
50Y Energy = Not Available

Speer 135 grain .38+P Gold Dot Short Barrel JHP:

Muzzle Velocity = 860
50Y Velocity = 818
Muzzle Energy = 222
50Y Energy = 200

Federal (American Eagle) 100 Grain .327 Magnum JSP:

Muzzle Velocity = 1500
50Y Velocity = 1324
Muzzle Energy = 500
50Y Energy = 389

Federal 85 grain .327 Magnum Hydrashock JHP:

Muzzle Velocity = 1400
50Y Velocity = 1221
Muzzle Energy = 370
50Y Energy = 281

Speer 115 grain .327 Magnum Gold Dot JHP:

Muzzle Velocity = 1380
50Y Velocity = 1240
Muzzle Energy = 486
50Y Energy = 393

[CallMeIshmael]

August 11th, 2008, 01:46 PM
LightningMan

I too, would like to see a 6 shot, J-framed Smith in this caliber but I think I'd really like to see a smaller more concealable 5 shot revolver in this new round. I own a J-frame .357 now and while very concealable for me in medium to heavy clothing it becomes a bit harder if not impossable in light summer wear, so in summer months I opt for smaller caliber guns like the .380 Ruger LPC. LM

Living in South Florida. I require a weapon that is easy to conceal beneath a hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts. I have carried S&W J-frames for nearly 20 years in a DeSantis Cozy Partner IWB holster dressed just this way and never had a problem with concealment and I don't feel a personal need for a skinnier gun. I for one would appreciate the extra round a .327 would allow. Personally, I would like to see a S&W J-frame Centennial in .327, stainless steel with a 3" magna-ported barrel, black finish and Crimson Trace LaserGrips. With a good gun belt and IWB holster, I don't see the slight extra weight of the stainless steel as an impediment. S&W, are you listening?

[Old School]

The 9mm outperforms the 38 special in a revolver. It is cheap and readily available and allows the use of moon clips for fast reloads. I am not sure this round offers anything substantial over a good 9mm revolver.

[9x19sig]

What does it offer? Higher performance, higher capacity, lower recoil.... I guess that's really not reason enough to come out with this new cartridge though.

I really bet somewhere along the lines electricity was shunned because it had no real advantage over candles. And automobiles had no real advantages over horse drawn carriages. :neener:

Seriously though .327 does have advantages, check out performance of 9mm out of a revolver, its not that stellar.

[GTSteve03]

The numbers are the facts of the "ballistics" and they speak for themselves.
Are you talking about terminal ballistics, or just general bullet flight ballistics? Because if we're talking terminal effects of the bullets when used for self-defense, I don't put a lot of faith in the numbers. I guess I'm what people like to call a "jello junkie" and I base my handgun ammunition choices on how they perform versus the FBI minimum penetration standards in ballistic gelatin.

If a bullet can penetrate at least 12" and still expand, then I find that it's "good enough" for carry, and I don't worry much about the numbers past that. More penetration is always better though, to me. I don't know if a .327 of any size is going to offer that over a 158gr .38 special.

I will freely admit that the gain of a sixth round in the same size package is a definite advantage, it's 20% more firepower. However, if I was concerned about capacity, I wouldn't be carrying a snubnose at all, I'd be packing a G26 with 11rds on tap and another 10rds a simple magazine swap away.

[XDShooter07]

Are you talking about terminal ballistics, or just general bullet flight ballistics?

General bullet flight.

If a bullet can penetrate at least 12" and still expand, then I find that it's "good enough" for carry, and I don't worry much about the numbers past that. More penetration is always better though, to me. I don't know if a .327 of any size is going to offer that over a 158gr .38 special.

brassfetchers tests show 11-12 inches of penetration with good expansion from the FBI load and 14.9 inches of penetration with the .327 gold dot with good expansion. Are you seeing different tests of the FBI load that I haven't. I don't think the .38 is under-gunning at all. I own a 340 and after feeling the difference between +p and .357 I will be sticking with +p. But from these tests the .327 looks like it has some serious potential to outperform the +p.

I will freely admit that the gain of a sixth round in the same size package is a definite advantage, it's 20% more firepower. However, if I was concerned about capacity, I wouldn't be carrying a snubnose at all, I'd be packing a G26 with 11rds on tap and another 10rds a simple magazine swap away.

For the sake of not making you think I'm attacking all your posts. Ditto. I might carry a G19 mag as a reload though.

[P. Plainsman]

S&W still makes stainless steel J-frames with three-inch barrels -- here's the 3" Model 60:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14755&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Weighs 24 oz, which is 3 oz less than a comparable SP101. That's the gun I want chambered as a six-shooter in .327 Fed. Mag. You would have a handy little trail gun with 6 rounds, good power, fully adjustable sights (unlike the Ruger) and a decent barrel length, which is more appropriate for a hot cartridge like the .327 than a 2" snub barrel anyway. Keep the good performance, like those Gold Dots JE223 tested from the 3" Ruger barrel. Mean!

Plus you can load the gun with pipsqueak .32 S&W Longs (or cowboy/downloaded .32 H&Rs) for soup can population control and general fun.

That'd be a sweet revolver.