Gun in the face at the range


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4D5
August 11, 2008, 01:47 AM
Well I was at the range today and shot some but didn't do too well after having an 8 year old three tables over turn and hold a pistol at me where I was sitting way back of the line loading magazines, stupid parents, at least I think parents as there was a man and woman there with the kid. The dad was busy shooting and the mom? was not paying much attetion. And she was the one who the kid turned around to talk to and she didn't do anything until...

In a really strong voice I commanded him to point the gun down range. I was afraid to yell because he might have got excited and pulled the trigger. All I could see was the HUGE end of a .22 that looked like the size of a Howizer.

I'd already heard him get chastised by someone on the other side of him about keeping the gun pointed down range. That same stranger gave the kid some eye protection which he wasn't using at the time and shortly after didn't use that given to him. I should have packed up and left right then and there but I didn't.

When I do go I always get at one end of the bay so I only have to watch to one side. Today that didn't make a difference.

This range is county maintained but no RO and is pretty much open for any and everything. It's a nice place too shoot but not to die.

A few months ago I was there (I don't go there very often) and there was a cease fire to check targets, two wanta be gang bangers were there with an AR, one changing targets and the other at the line. Guy on the line starts screwing with the AR and I said you shouldn't touch guns during cease fiire, is that thing clear. Well he pulls the bolt back, out comes a round and in goes another. I packed up my stuff and left because I didn't want to see anyone get shot that day at the range.

Anyway that will be my last trip to that range. I've seen too many of the 4 rules violated too many times and unsafe range procedures occur.

Eventhough I will end up by myself, I can get to BLM in 10 minutes from my house and shoot. All I need to do is get the shade structure set up for the back of the truck (was made for previous truck) and I'll have all the same setup as the range without the fear of death. That way there's no need to drive 30 min to the range and always have to be watching the line and wonder if you'll be shot today.

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loneviking
August 11, 2008, 01:53 AM
Wow! Which range? Douglas or Carson? I've not had a problem yet at Carson, but Douglas has gotten a bit iffy a time or two.

Regolith
August 11, 2008, 01:58 AM
Eventhough I will end up by myself, I can get to BLM in 10 minutes from my house and shoot. All I need to do is get the shade structure set up for the back of the truck (was made for previous truck) and I'll have all the same setup as the range without the fear of death. That way there's no need to drive 30 min to the range and always have to be watching the line and wonder if you'll be shot today.

That's what I do when I'm down there. That way I don't have to worry about crap like that.

bobbarker
August 11, 2008, 02:10 AM
I am so damn glad that I've never had to go to a public range to shoot. With lots of property and fields around us, I've been able to shoot with friends and family only, don't have to worry about a bunch of idiots.

COMPNOR
August 11, 2008, 02:22 AM
Eh, depends on the range I guess. I find it hard to believe that ranges(and i mean ranges, not empty fields) where there is no range official in sight. Seems like too much of a liability for me.

The public range I'm at is very safety conscience, always has someone watching(not always on the line, but watching), and individual booths.

Win75
August 11, 2008, 07:06 AM
I shoot at a private range/gun club and still have idiots to contend with. I have had several incidents with kids and adults that are too lengthy to get into here. I have reported these to the board.

Jeff F
August 11, 2008, 07:19 AM
4D5, my buddy told me there have been like six killings at that Flint Rd range over the past five or six years and they were not accidental. Best to not go there by yourself.

Bud Tugly
August 11, 2008, 07:31 AM
I own 80 acres of remote wooded land where I can go out and shoot whenever I want. I've never shot at a range, and I feel bad for you folks who have no other options.

Sounds like a very scary situation.

762 shooter
August 11, 2008, 07:54 AM
When I see unsafe conditions at my public range I first work my way to the offender by staying clear of any dangerous areas, then start up a conversation about what type of gun they have, then as nicely as possible explain what safety rule they are breaking. I would expect that most of them have never had simple safety procedures explained to them and the reasons behind them. Yelling and calling them unsafe idiots, shuts down any receptiveness. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the younger ones "got the gun bug" from the TV or Internet. How many places are available to the newby for human to human safety instruction?

I may have been lucky, but every one I have talked to in this regard has shown appreciation and a willingness to abide by the rules. My results may be skewed because I try to go during a weekday and never on the weekend.

The OP tried to save them. Some shooters would leave. In my younger days I would hesitate to comment because I wasn't confident in my expertise or I thought the offender probably knew more than I did. Safe is safe.

YMMV

scrat
August 11, 2008, 11:24 AM
Wow so you have been to Burro Canyon too. i think we all have ranges like that. its sad they really need to be monitored correctly. last think we need is more ranges closed

jackstinson
August 11, 2008, 11:32 AM
This is why I was happy when the local state park range hired a full time RO and changed it's rules. Sure, we give up being able to dump a 30-round magazine as fast as possible....but we gained a lot more in everyone's general safety. No more bozos launching practice grenades at old TV's or popping tracers into gas cans. :uhoh:
About the only rule imposed which for some folks might be considered hard to follow, is the 3-rapid-shots maximum. But this still enables one to practice double and triple taps.

PirateRadio
August 11, 2008, 11:33 AM
I once turned around at a local indoor range and was looking down the barrel of a .50AE Desert Eagle. Unpleasant...

nambu1
August 11, 2008, 11:36 AM
All the public ranges in my area have closed. I belong to fantastic private on with 3 ranges for rifle, 1 for pistol, and a trap range.

jrfoxx
August 11, 2008, 12:57 PM
That type of thing (although I have never personally ever seen it at a range) is why I suck it up and drive 1hr each way to a nice spot I found in the middle of the national forest. Free, always open, no one else to worry about, and I can shoot/practice whatever I want, however I want. Couldnt be better. I'll admit, with the high gas prices, I dont go as often as I'd like, but thats life.

chris in va
August 11, 2008, 01:02 PM
I took a friend's kid out to the local outdoor range last year. We sat him down and gave him the 4 laws, explaining why and how they work.

He really enjoyed my HiPoint carbine 9mm, but got a little carried away so his dad had him do something else the remainder of the trip.

I always be sure all my guns are unloaded after the session is over.

So we get home and I'm putting my various range gear away in my shed, turned around to find my carbine pointed at me with accompanied "BANG BANG" sound effects from the kid, and a big grin.

I about lost it. That kid got a good talking to from me and a spanking from his father.

ceetee
August 11, 2008, 01:04 PM
Let me be the first to say, "I wish I had your problems." Where I live, every range within a reasonable driving distance is owned by the attached gun store. Not only do you have to put up with their rules (like "one shot every three seconds"), you have to buy your ammo from them, at their (horribly inflated) prices.

Either that, or you have to drive over 90 minutes (each way) to an outdoor range, still put up with their odd rules ("we don't allow any of them commie rifles here"), and you still have to watch your back for all the safety violations. I think I'd rather have it your way, and just always remember to bring along a shooting buddy.

g.willikers
August 11, 2008, 10:00 PM
They're everywhere:

At public range -
Guy next bench over has bolt out of his deer rifle. I ask if it's safe to go down to put up a target. He says ok, puts bolt back in and fires one off when I'm about 1/4 of the way downrange, right past me. Very breezy.

Another "Is it ok to go downrange" - Guy puts a round from a 30-06 into two targets from mine - when I'm down at the target patching holes.

At private club -
Father and son on the rifle range. Son is competent with fast shootin' carbine. Father wants to do it, too. His rounds go up and over the backstop, into the river behind that's full of boaters. Almost got the club closed down.

At a steel match - sign clearly says "No jacketed bullets on steel targets!"
Guy uses jacketed bullets, one piece of jacket comes straight back and imbeds itself in the bridge of my nose, about a fraction of an inch from the left eye. Required pliers to get it out. Lots of blood and lucky to have my sight.

Range officer duty at practical match. Guy runs past target by mistake, retreats, goes behind me and sweeps my back with 1911. Didn't notice if he had finger on trigger. Too busy ducking.

Lots more, enough for now.
They are everywhere.

SFvet
August 11, 2008, 10:14 PM
Well when my friends and I go shooting we just take turns being the RO - whoever is not shooting. Having someone watching also helps the shooters out by seeing something you dont.

JWarren
August 11, 2008, 10:25 PM
They're everywhere:

At public range -
Guy next bench over has bolt out of his deer rifle. I ask if it's safe to go down to put up a target. He says ok, puts bolt back in and fires one off when I'm about 1/4 of the way downrange, right past me. Very breezy.

Another "Is it ok to go downrange" - Guy puts a round from a 30-06 into two targets from mine - when I'm down at the target patching holes.

At private club -
Father and son on the rifle range. Son is competent with fast shootin' carbine. Father wants to do it, too. His rounds go up and over the backstop, into the river behind that's full of boaters. Almost got the club closed down.

At a steel match - sign clearly says "No jacketed bullets on steel targets!"
Guy uses jacketed bullets, one piece of jacket comes straight back and imbeds itself in the bridge of my nose, about a fraction of an inch from the left eye. Required pliers to get it out. Lots of blood and lucky to have my sight.

Range officer duty at practical match. Guy runs past target by mistake, retreats, goes behind me and sweeps my back with 1911. Didn't notice if he had finger on trigger. Too busy ducking.

Lots more, enough for now.
They are everywhere.


Holy crap...


You seriously need to get a second mortgage and buy your own land to shoot on. The universe seems to be out to get you!


-- John

Zip7
August 11, 2008, 10:47 PM
Holy bejesus at all that...

I live near a really great outdoor range - It's in the middle of nowhere, and while you can only go 100 yards on the rifle range, it's very safe, no nonsense, and the RO's are friendly and competent.

Pistol range is separate - 25 yards, falling plates, and a separate rimfire section with some silhouettes. And you can bring your own 22 spinner targets or whatever.

There's a not so great privately owned range right around the corner from me. But the good one is run by a non profit org and is about 20 miles away

siglite
August 11, 2008, 11:08 PM
I had a guy trying to deal with a malfunction on a .45 about four benches down. Swept me a couple of times and I didn't say anything. But when he was messing with it, and I could steadily see down the bore, "Hey buddy! I'd feel a lot more comfortable if that thing wasn't pointed at my head!"

Guy was embarrassed and got things pointed downrange real quick.

I wish people would think.

VARifleman
August 11, 2008, 11:23 PM
Range officer duty at practical match. Guy runs past target by mistake, retreats, goes behind me and sweeps my back with 1911. Didn't notice if he had finger on trigger. Too busy ducking.
That guy was out of line, but so were you by not anticipating the moving back and getting out of the way. I'd have pushed you back with my shoulder and demanded a reshoot.

Defensory
August 12, 2008, 06:01 AM
Most public ranges suck.

I belong to a private range and I shoot on weekdays, when there are usually very few people there.

U.S.SFC_RET
August 12, 2008, 06:08 AM
Generally speaking I almost never see those problems and when I do the military in me comes out. "Do me a big favor sir and point that weapon up and down range" as it is laying on the firing line.
For the ranges I belong to we nip it in the bud.

bannockburn
August 12, 2008, 06:33 AM
SFvet

That's pretty much the way my buddy and I do it. When he's shooting, I spot for him and watch the firing line. He does the same for me when I shoot. It's a public range, no RO, but so far everyone observes the safety rules (at least when I've been there), and there haven't been any incidents. Still it's always a good idea to have someone else along to watch your 6.

jackstinson
August 12, 2008, 06:48 AM
Most public ranges suck. I belong to a private range and I shoot on weekdays, when there are usually very few people there.
What's odd is that the closest call I've had was at a private range. It was on a nice private muzzle loading gun club range. There were only four of us there at the time, I didn't know the other three people. We had just come back from putting up fresh targets and the person nearest me decided to pop a cap on his percussion gun to clear it. I was at the firing line with my flintlock rifle. The next thing I know a .54 caliber round ball buries itself into the ground one inch from my left foot! The clown had forgotten he'd loaded his gun before going downrange to check his target. I packed up my toys and went home.

VegasOPM
August 12, 2008, 03:19 PM
I am lucky to belong to a private range with indvidual ranges with 270 degree embankments. Multiple targets, movement, no speed limitations and I have a 50 or 75 meter range to myself. Too many scary incidents at ranges with standard firing lines for me. Now if there is a RO calling the shots, I feel a bit better.

Cougfan2
August 12, 2008, 03:40 PM
I was at a range in KS one day when I got a rifle pointed at me while I was downrange. I had turned on the lights to signal that the range was cold and went down to change targets. When I turned around there were to kids at a bench and one of them was pointing a Marlin 39 down range in my direction. I hit the dirt! Apparently they thought this was pretty funny as they started laughing. :fire::cuss: I went up to them, took the rifle from them and ejected a live round from the chamber. I threw the rifle in the trunk of my car and asked them where their Dad was. They said he was up shooting trap. I told them to go up and tell him and if he wanted the rifle back to come down and talk to me. Not sure what story they told him, but he came down all red faced and p***** off. He changed his tune pretty quick when I told him what his kids had done.

BamBam-31
August 12, 2008, 06:58 PM
A couple of girls were shooting to my left at Angeles Shooting Range one day. Complete newbies, from the looks of things. Boyfriends brought them there and just said, "Here, shoot." One boyfriend decides to stand behind and a little to the left of the girl immediately to my left. Whenever he gives her instruction, she turns and looks over her right shoulder, pointing her Glock right at my head! :eek: I didn't know Glock made .50 cals....

I gave both of them a "Whoa, keep that thing pointed downrange!" talking to, and the girl was embarassed enough that she didn't shoot much afterwards. Not really her fault as much as it was his, IMHO.

Then there's the dude that brings his newbie buddy to the range. Just hands him his S&W auto and lets him go. Guy can't even figure out how to load it properly, and when he does, he doesn't know how to turn the safety off. Hmm, gun's not shooting, let's point it to the left while pulling the trigger repeatedly. Maybe there are instructions printed on the slide. Thank God I was on his right.

I tend to be highly aware of shooters around me. If they give off "newbie" vibes, I step back and watch them shoot for a while before returning to the line. That's how it goes w/ public ranges, eh?

ds/ks
August 12, 2008, 07:08 PM
A couple of phrases I heard long ago.
Don't ever underestimate the stupidity of your fellow man.
Don't ever point it at anything you don't want to kill.

Ian Sean
August 12, 2008, 07:24 PM
Started taking my little guy with me to the range when he was 9.

All I can say is thank god for the Boy Scouts, he already knew his safety rules and safe handling quite well from shooting air rifles.

No issues safety wise, we were able to concentrate on marksmanship and trying out many of dads (mine, one day his) toys.

BUT I have on several occasions seen some unsafe behavior at ranges, I try to calmly interject the rules....never had anyone get irate or mad at me yet. I would rather "school" someone...than pack up and leave, that does no good in my opinion. If I have the ammo (and I usually do) I will say, "hey, try one of mine", I will stand close and give some tips...hitting them with safety rules they are lacking also.

It is our job as older shooters to train and correct if we can and when possible.

XDShooter07
August 12, 2008, 07:50 PM
Only thing I've seen at a range so far that I was uncomfortable with was a guy doing rapid draw and fire practice at the line with others on both sides of him. He had the gun on his strong side rear hip and a cover garment. He'd throw the cover garment back grab the gun and tap 5 rounds down range as fast as he could. There's no rapid fire rule at this range but you have to get permission to do rapid draw practice. I was surprised they gave him that permission with a full range. Personally I think drawing and firing should be practiced separately unless you are on a range line by your lonesome with a range officer supervising. Even then it wasn't even practical practice; 5 rounds rapid fire? Maybe a double tap then check drill but 5 rounds? Mall ninja. There's a new indoor range that just opened up at a gun shop about 10 minutes from here; they only have 4 lanes but they don't ever have more than 2 cars in front of the store at any given time. Might go check that out next week.

DRYHUMOR
August 12, 2008, 09:17 PM
Used to be a part time RO in the service.

We had a lot of folks who had never fired a weapon, shoot to qualify. The gunners mate who ran the range made the same speech every time a session was about to begin. It went more or less like this:

Keep your muzzle pointed downrange, downrange is where your target is. If you have a problem with your weapon, lay it on the bench while holding on to it, and raise your hand, someone will help you. If you turn your weapon to the left or the right, I may shoot you, you have become a danger to those around you.

I guess it, and the sidearm he was wearing worked. I don't recall anyone getting shot. And I do recall a couple of stovepipes where the hands went up;)

bumm
August 12, 2008, 10:09 PM
I go to a free, outdoor, public range just off the edge of my dinky Iowa town, with no range officers at all, and have seen surprisingly few problems. I don't know if it's because a higher percentage of people around here have grown up around guns or what... The people I meet at the range are very observant of safety rules, and watch their kids well. The biggest problem I've seen is just junk left by the occasional inconsiderate jerk. Maybe I'm just lucky so far...
Marty

U.S.SFC_RET
August 13, 2008, 10:30 PM
I have been a "range safety officer" more than a time or two in the service. I have seen alot. in one case a hot cartridge flew into the collar of a serviceman's neck, he spun around three times with the M16 locked and loaded trying to shake it.
One or two mentionables concerning servicemen of questionable character. I made double sure I was close very, very close while that individual was firing downrange.

alemonkey
August 13, 2008, 10:34 PM
The private range I'm a member of requires all new members to go through a safety orientation and demonstrate they can safely handle a firearm before they're give a key card to get in the gate. I think it's a great idea. I've had nothing but good experiences with the other shooters there.

Mike Franklin
August 13, 2008, 11:16 PM
I have 110 acres behind my house to shoot on. Other than that I will not shoot on a range that does not have a Range Officer.

Lookn4Brass
August 13, 2008, 11:25 PM
Well, I'm proud of you guys! Nice to know that as a new member, I'm part of a discussion group of people who have their heads on straight. Not kidding. Sad to hear these stories, though. I too have had similar hair-raising experiences. Fortunately it was only once, but at a private wooded range, after repeatedly asking people to stop shooting while my guests and I were downrange (this was after we got a verbal by the the other parties that it was OK to check targets) I had a very unnerving feeling come over me. These people were not supposed to be here, and confrontation at that point could have gotten ugly. I covertly scooped up and loaded my carry gun, gathered my friends up along with our items, and left as quickly as possible. It's a sad day when you actually feel you have to defend your "collective" butt at a normally good shooting range. Plus, this was a place that I paid yearly dues on, had a private gate code, the whole nine yards, and paid extra for range upkeep too. ...Well, poop happens,and sometimes it rains poop. Just be sure you have the right kind of attitude + boots and raincoat to get home safely. Time for a record of their car license plate numbers and a call to the range president on the way home, and maybe tell the whole club. Yeah, I like shooting alone more and more too...

ChrisVV
August 14, 2008, 12:02 AM
Public ranges are a scary place to be sometimes.

bsf
August 14, 2008, 12:47 AM
I shot on my relatives’ “back 40” all my life and decided to check out a relatively local private club and range. Good deal. I have been extremely happy w/ my experiences there. In addition to others, there are two 25m ranges w/ 270 degree berms and I can practice like I think I would have to do it in “real life”. Since I shoot earlier in the day I always have one of the 25m ranges to myself. It is like owning my own private range. Never once has some nimrod messed with a firearm behind the covered firing positions while I am forward doing drills. The horror stories some of you people relate really make me appreciate what I have. I have never been swept by a muzzle there (AFAIK) and I have not met a single member who acted like a bunghole.

Savage Shooter
August 14, 2008, 12:51 AM
I will open with a stupid mistake of mine i was 10 er 11 and I wanted to shoot my little stevens crackshot and I opened it up and out poped a live shell :what:I did this right infront of my dad guess who the last one shooting it was :uhoh: I got grounded for a month and i have never to this day done it again.
I will now open with a stupid thing my buddy did while we where trapshooting for a local FFA event. He was using a piece of :cuss: remington 870 that was his brothers (doesn't take care of it) He popped in a shell. I was getting ready to shoot just before the person to my left fired and i went to shoot and BOOM i felt a sharp pain and i quickly turned around and the range supervisor asks me if I'm alright I say ya (I thought some wise guy hit me with a rock) I asked him where the wise guy that hit me with the rock was. He replys you didn't get hit with a rock you got shot... wait WHAT :what: I got WHAT :eek: he asks it i'm bleeding bad I feel my head ya i'm bleeding but not bad. Comes over looks at my head say you'll live, asks me if I want to quit if I think I need to go to the hospital (one pellet hit in the head hit in cheek) I go who shot me guy points to my buddy who is staring at the cement pad he was standing on with about a 2 inch deep hole an inch or so away from his left foot. He was speachless said he put in a shell ( slide open) and was standing waiting for me to shoot when the slide fell and BOOM. He asked if I could ever forgive him and i said of course just never bring that peice of :cuss: near me again. I hated remington before the insident and I still do.

B yond
August 14, 2008, 01:12 AM
Stuff like this is exactly why I prefer to shoot alone. I like to 4-wheel out to places where I'll be alone so I can properly enjoy my favorite sport. I know it's dangerous to shoot alone and to 4-wheel alone, but I honestly think I'm less likely to hurt myself in the middle of the woods than to get hurt by some idiot at a public range. :eek:

Guns, check.
Ammo, check.
Eyes and ears, check.
First aid kit, check.
Recovery gear, check.
Gun zen in the middle of nowhere, check.

trashpickinman
August 14, 2008, 01:56 AM
I've only had one problem at a range; cease fire was called by the RO; no firing, unload, action open before walking downrange to access targets. A guy a couple stalls down lets off a round right after the call. The RO immediately comes down and tells the guy to leave the range. No BSing around there. Unfortunately its about a 30 minute drive one way, I haven't gone in a while. The other range I go to is closer, but pistol and 22lr only. But they do have a hanging pulley system for targets, don't have to risk walking downrange. Though I still wear my Level II whenever I go.

jakemccoy
August 14, 2008, 02:28 AM
g.willikers wins, holy crap.

jakemccoy
August 14, 2008, 02:34 AM
Newbies laughing hysterical at the local range...I always take off for another day.

offroaddiver
August 15, 2008, 12:22 AM
There are 3 ranges I go to. An indoor (bassically pistol in really bad weather), The gun club that has the meets that i shoot in, and the next county's police range.
I have had more incidents while at the meets than else where. I enjoy the police range more because everyone is nice, there's usualy atleast one other person there. Not alot of people to get in the way and there's a burger joint nearby that has great food during the summer.

But that doesn't stop me from bringing a couple of cards I made that have the 4 rules printed on them and leave them on the shooting tables.

jakemccoy
August 15, 2008, 12:45 AM
That's a good idea about the cards. Post the graphic if it's cool. Otherwise, I'll take the time to design my own cards.

ReadyontheRight
August 15, 2008, 12:46 AM
My range requires that the first one there wear an orange vest and serve as a RO. When he/she leaves, if there are others shooting, the orange vest is passed to another shooter.

We are all trained as ROs as part of membership. Seems like a good way to go.

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