Seeing as this is the week for Sharps discussions on THR, I thought I'd post the predessesor to the 1874. This is a paper cartridge gun, and my current love:) It can be loaded 4 different ways, has double set triggers, and is accurate on the first few shots as the 1874....I am casting Minnie for it. The big advantage is the lack of Brass. Clean the gun and your done.....
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August 11, 2008, 10:26 PM
Do you have a neverending supply of beautiful guns? I think there's a new one posted every time I log on.
Very nice, all kidding aside. I bet that short carbine would make a nice handy hunting rifle.
August 11, 2008, 11:05 PM
Beautiful gun! I have one just like it....
Hey giz...does your have a sliding sleeve in the chamber?
August 14, 2008, 08:01 PM
I have a origional new model 1863 sharps carbine and I was wondeing if anyone could tell or show me how to make the cartridges for it and how much powder to use.
August 14, 2008, 08:08 PM
1. MAKING NITRATED PAPER: Get a cake pan large enough to lay a sheet of paper flat inside of it. Put about 1/2" of water in the pan, set cake pan on stove, bring water to a boil
2. Turn heat of stove down to simmer
3. Stir in Potassium Nitrate (Salt Petere), one tablespoon at a time until you reach a super saturated solution (no more salt petere will dissolve.)
4. Take one sheet of OnionSkin Paper and thoroughly soak it in solution
5. Hang soaked paper to dry on a string by two clothespins
6. Turn off stove when you are done
Caution: this paper is highly flammable!
1. MAKING THE CARTRIDGE: Purchase a dowel slightly bigger than your bullet
2. Cut a long strip of the nitrated paper to wrap around once with a little overlap. Wrap nitrated paper around dowel and glue (paper to paper - not to dowel) with Sodium Silicate (Water Glass)
Do not use white or instant glues
as they become rock hard and ruin your barrel.
3. Slide this paper tube a little so that you may fold the end as you would a penny wrapper
4. Fold and glue
5. Slide further until the desired length of cartridge...plus a little... is off the dowel
7. Fill the paper tube with correct amount of FFFg Black Powder (about 35 grains for a 50 caliber)
8. Slide the pre-lubricated bullet base first into the paper tube and glue or string tie the nitrated paper. If you string tie, be sure that you have soaked the cotton string in the nitrate solution
1. LOADING & FIRING - with nitrated paper cartridgesOpen breech
2. Remove any debris from previous load
3. Load whole cartridge...bullet-toward muzzle...into the back of the barrel
4. Close breech
5. Pull the hammer back
6. Remove spent cap
7. Put a new cap on the nipple
8. Aim (Pulling stock firmly into shoulder)
9. Squeeze trigger.
August 14, 2008, 08:25 PM
Thanks Sharps59, This is a 52 cal. would 60 grains of FF be the right charge?
August 15, 2008, 09:17 AM
I would start w/ 42 of 2ffg I only shoot out to 100yrds. MY shiloh 63 carbine 54 cal. Depending on the bullet I use my Brooks bullet at a weight of 430 likes 46 grn of 2ffg and 44 grn of 3fffg. my nei 490 likes 42 of fffg.
my armis sport 59 carbine likes 38 grn 3fffg both bullets and 42 of 2ffg.
personnel do not punish your self w/ heavy loads unless you really need to reach out there and touch something. I'm sure my loads will not work much past the distances I shoot. and I have no need to test either.
also 2ffg will give you less felt recoil than 3fffg.
by the way I use swiss only now. when useing goex my loads were 10% more.:banghead:
August 15, 2008, 05:24 PM
Thanks again Sharps59,I'm new in the sharps field. I traded a 22 pistol for it. I don't think the fellow knew what he had, he said that he never heard of a sharps carbine, that told me he didn't know much about guns. I got some bullets from Dixie guns that were made for the sharps, 52 cal .535 dia, 395 grain, they're the bullets that have the knob on the base of the bullet, my guess is to tie the paper to the bullet. hope these are going to work. Can't believe that anyone that owns firearms, never heard of a sharps rifle, I've wanted one since I was a kid. Sure hope this one works.
August 15, 2008, 07:23 PM
thats Just not right. I think you should trad it to me for my armis sport sharps
its modern made and would suit you better than that old junker:banghead::p:uhoh::eek::what::)
yea the ringtail is for tieing too. or you can glue to it.
August 15, 2008, 07:29 PM
Yea I thought I got a good deal too! The only thing missing on the carbine is the bar and saddle ring, but I think I can get one off a web sight I found tha has origional sharps parts and reproduction parts.
August 15, 2008, 09:15 PM
Can anyone help me on this question? Like I said I'm new in the sharps field and on this origional 1863 52 cal ,the gas seal is the plate on the breech block,correct?? and is it to slide and move freely, or be kinda snug?
August 15, 2008, 09:41 PM
IIRC it should move freely, at least for a few shots, when it gets all gunked up and quits working.:cool:
August 15, 2008, 11:08 PM
When I got the rifle I had to tap it with a sharp screwdriver to get to come apart. it had like a really thin wax paper like type of gasket between it and the breechblock. Is this infact a gasket and if so, is it important.
August 15, 2008, 11:09 PM
S & S in Glendale NY, or Lodgewood for original parts.
1 ? is it set up for the bar and saddle ring?
August 15, 2008, 11:15 PM
Yes I believe it is. On the left side of the rifle there is a indenture and a leather type washer in it, held in place with a screw.
August 16, 2008, 09:28 AM
The "gasket" serves the same purpose as a metallic cartridge case, in that it forms a seal against the breech block to prevent escaping gas when the rifle is fired.
August 16, 2008, 01:55 PM
Thanks Iggy, when I took it apart the gasket came out in pieces, so I got some really super thin automotive gasket paper and made a new one. Do you think this will work or is there something else I should use?
August 16, 2008, 08:34 PM
Does anyone know of any books or web sites that I can get to trace my rifle? All of the serial # are very clear and wanted to see if there was a way to trace them. I've noticed in photos of serial # on rifles on web sites, that they have a letter C in front, mine does not. Whats the reasoning for that?
August 16, 2008, 11:40 PM
try the N-SSA board. ask there try and get a hold of John Holland he may be helpfull.
don't know about your gasket never seen one were is it and what is it made of.
the gas check plates are steel. some guys do an o -ring modification behind the GC to put pressure on the chamber sleeve for a better seal.
August 17, 2008, 11:37 AM
Thanks Sharps59, I'll try that fellow, do you mean a o-ring like the one you buy at a hard ware store? And do you have any idea where I could get a sleeve tool for a 52 cal? All the ones I see are for 54 or 45.
August 17, 2008, 12:48 PM
no I do not know but I think a 54 may work for you.If need be you could turn down the 54. If you really think you have a removable sleeve.
according to Kirk at shiloh the originals were a fixed sleeve. :banghead:
August 17, 2008, 01:12 PM
Thats why I'm glad I found this web site, to talk to shooters like you all that know about the sharps, I'm a soon to be gunsmith and this is the first sharps I've seen or messed with. Thanks. Can't wait to shoot this ole" girl, I love history and when I get to shoot it, it will be like being back in the old days. My grandmother always said I was born 3 centurys too late.
August 17, 2008, 06:23 PM
Been reading your posts and find them interesting. So that make's it OK in my book to semi-hijack my thread:D
Giz Sorry if I hyjacked it
They started asking ??? Just had to try and be helpfull :banghead:
Ya Just got to love the 59 and 63's. ;) My first one is a armi sport 59 carbine that I had to put a lot of time and effort into to get it to work:cuss:
. my second is a Shiloh 63 carbine. that only requires working up a load for.:D
August 17, 2008, 06:40 PM
I've always been the impatient sort...
The Shiloh is a amazing gun. A good friend just received his, after the better part of 2 years...
I am very happy with my Pedersoli guns and have a 45/110 in sight. Or is that a 45/70....LOL
Anyrate, great answers to the thread and I have been away from the forum for a few days.....
Fella just has to have quality time to roll his own paper cartridige's ~ as you well know...
August 17, 2008, 06:55 PM
Have you tried charlie Hahn's tubes yet.
I still roll my own but use charles tubes for practice and individules. less time consuming. they ar a cardboar tube the desinagrates or curls up and blows out the barrel when fired. they work great.
He makes them in what ever length you need.
you close one end off by glueing paper to it then fill w/ powder and filler if you use it. then glue the bullet on.
August 17, 2008, 07:05 PM
Actually, I am using nitrated paper, but am experimenting with telephone book paper. Friend of mine that had 5 or 6 Sharps suggested it.. After the winks, turns out he was serious and that it works fine...
I've always wanted a metal cartridge sharps,45-70, 50-70, but my boss, she says I have too many guns now. Personally,I can't find any logic in that!!!!! I told her their worth more than diamonds, she acted like she was gut shot.
August 17, 2008, 07:31 PM
My Boss would rather have a new Flintlock or Sharps of her own, then diamonds, just about anyday....LOL
She has three out on the kitchen table, thinking that one of the sons and his girlfriend are going shootin' out back, tonight...
Damn, glad I married a farmgirl...
Besides, this is just as pretty as a old piece of hard rock, and a heck of alot more fun...