Reality thread: First time reloader success story.

Hey guys, some people have asked me questions about reloading and I thought I'd type this up. I had a long plane flight to the other side of the world and figured this would be an excellent way to kill time! LOL! :D

Please, constructive feedback only. This is intended to demonstrate one of the many ways to get into reloading and is not intended as the answer for everyone's needs. I am providing this as an account of what I have learned along the way loading up my first rounds! Enjoy! :o



> Disclaimer.

These are my thoughts on the subject. I'm no expert, but this is from a noob's standpoint and a summary of what ended up working out really well for me. As with any information over the internet, YMMV - your mileage may vary, and reload at your own risk!

> How I got my start reloading.

I got tangled up shooting USPSA at a weekly local match, and am now dragging to the weekend matches. Add to that the weekly pin and steel shoots and well, that's a lot of ammo!

> Assessing needs.

Because of a tight schedule I needed to reload rounds quickly for two calibers. I shoot 40s&w, and my fiance shoots 9x19mm. I would like to sit down once a week and load 300-400 rounds for each caliber in 2 or 3 hours. This mandated the use of a multi-station progressive press that would allow me to do everything on the press.

> Shopping selections.

After talking with a bunch of people who already reload, it seemed like the two most popular (amongst those in my area) were the Lee Precision machines and the Dillon machines. Both camps generally agreed that the Lee machines were more like good ol' pickup trucks while the Dillons were the high end luxury like pieces.

Since I'm only starting out and price was a concern, I looked up the Lee Load-Master. It had five stations, so it could do everything on the press along with the factory crimp die. Complete with dies for one caliber, it was about $215 online brand new... The Dillon, with similar features, was about twice as much used. Someone offered me a used Dillon 650 for $750, ouch! I went with the Lee.

> Cost.

$50 Lyman pro 1200 brass tumbler
$30 RCBS enclosed media sifter

$6 bottle of nu-finish car polish
$4 big bag of corn cob litter for bird cages

$215 Load Master in 40s&w
$12 spare 5 station turret (for 9mm dies)
$25 Lee deluxe carbide set in 9mm
$20 pair (2x) of Lee adjustable charge bars

$20 lee safety powder balance beam scale
$15 dial calipers for measuring OAL
$10 40sw cartridge max gage
$10 9mm cartridge max gage
$12 Impact bullet puller

$15 Lee modern reloading book

$20 in assorted MTM plastic ammo carriers

$5 clamp set for plank
$3 plank of wood to mount the press
$3 three 1/4" by 4" bolts to mount press

TOTAL COST = approximately $475 for everything brand new; does not include bullets, powder, and primers.

No, reloading isn't cheap to start out. But then again, I bought everything new. If you can wait, look for used deals. Seriously. A month after I started, someone was selling a tumbler, dillon square deal press set up for 40sw, digital scale, and misc tools for only $350!!! dangit!

> How it worked out.

The things people told me about the Lee were pretty dead on. It took an evening to get it up and running smooth. Had to lube it here and there on pretty much anything that moved or slided around, then adjust the dies as per Lee's instructions, and now the press works like a charm. I also dragged a dryer sheet through the powder measure and the disks, that helped a lot with powder and static electricity, and with powder sticking to the walls instead of falling down. That tip wasn't in the manual. I also got one of those automotive oil squirt cans, the kind that operates like a Windex bottle but dispenses oil out a fixed metal tube. Makes lubing the machine way easier for $2 from harbor freight.

The Lyman tumbler works great. Only thing is, with the top doubling as a sieve, I place a plastic grocery bag over the unit's bowl to help keep dust inside the thing. The RCBS tumbler does a good job of removing the media from the brass without kicking dust everywhere. The four dollar, ten pound bag of corn cob media beats the 7 bucks i see for one pound of treated stuff at the shows. For four dollars, my brass gets nice and shiny. I added a couple capfuls of nu-finish car polish at the suggestion of a few people and like I already said, the brass comes out super shiny.

The Lee safety powder scale... I used a friend's Dillon digital scale for the first few days and I would verify it against the Lee's balance beam mechanism. That works dead on too. I have to give the digital scale back, I'll get my own later. You can't beat the convenience of it... But the balance beam works just fine, since you're really only needing it to find your load, and what disk measure or charge bar position to use.

Mounting the press, I took an inch thick piece of hardwood, and clamped it to the desk. The overhang is here I mounted the press, and I just use a pair of cheap clamps to hold it to the desk. Works great, and I didn't have to tear up my desk to mount the press. Another good thing about doing it this way is you can move the press around to suit your needs. I've changed its position a couple times already as I began learning my preferences while loading.

Harbor freight has this little plastic bin kit for like $15 which is totally worth it. It comes with about 25 of those little plastic bins that's great for holding bullets to be used, or 'oops' cartridges to be disassembled, and sorting the loaded bullets.

> Lessons learned for the second time around...

1. Talk to everyone you know about reloading, you'll get a lot of tips and tricks. Plus, you may get information relative to the way you shoot. The IPSC guys usually go Dillon with their high volume of reloading... The pins and steel folks use Lees because of lower cost and they don't reload as much as the IPSC guys do. Some even use just the basic turret style press, which is fine if you just want to load a hundred or so rounds a week. Rifle guys, hell they use a plain ol' single stage like the Lee breech lock challenger or RCBS rock chucker press and buy lots of different rifle case prep tools to get the best accuracy they can. Depending on what you do, the group of guys you shoot with may be able to give you the best advice for what you may need to continue shooting and reloading with them.
2. Buy a digital scale with a balance beam, and check the two against each other. Usually I'll take the average of ten drops, three times to verify that the powder measure is dropping consistently. When using a progressive press, make sure you LOOK down into the case to make sure the powder is visually where it should be. Once in a while I'll get one that looks a little low, and I would remove it, dump the powder in the hopper, and set it aside for the end. Don't deprime a live primered round, it could go off.
3. Get a tumbler with a closed top. the dust isn't bad, but I bet it's sure as hell toxic. Do that crap in the garage, not your loading room. Getting small, 2 gallon sized sterilite containers works good for sorting brass. A bin for dirty, and a bin for cleaned for each caliber. I also bring gallon freezer bags to the range to collect our spent brass.
4. You don't really need three or four reloading manuals, just get one in case the internet is broke and immediate bench reference, and use google for the rest. The powder manufacturers, and many reloaders themselves post their load data. Of course, always use your head when picking what data to use.
5. If you shoot in volume, you probably want to stick to whatever load works for everyone else. Then if truly necessary, adjust to your needs. Don't get fancy. People have been reloading for decades and chances are, you're not going to find anything new. I bought a bunch of different bullet weights and styles for the 40s&w, and I ended up shooting what most other major power factor IPSC guys use: plain 180 grain flat points on top of 5.2 grains of titegroup with a CCI small pistol primer. If I just did that from the beginning, I coulda saved some money and time from looking at other fancy loads lol.
6. Don't set up your bench on carpet, you'll work powder into it and primers can get lost. Don't bother vacuuming. If you suck up a dropped primer, the vacuum will ignite it and all that powder dust will follow suit. If you only have carpet and are feeling lucky, then use a huge plastic office chair mat. But don't say the internet didn't warn you lol.
7. Get an assorted color pack of sharpies. You'll want to mark your brass NOW before you even buy a press. Many people do single red, black, or blue stripe across the back of their brass. I do a two-color "plus" sign on the back. I use purple and pink on mine, and double pink on my fiance's. I use pink because I don't think I'll ever come across anyone marking their brass with pink, lol. Yeah, I get jabbed for it, but at least I know it's my brass - and nobody else seems to want to be seen with pink brass either lol.

Good luck!

You seem to have though everything out before commiting to your setup. I have been at it for over 30 years and have slowly got thing together and still buy some goodies from time to time. I find that reloading is relaxing and enjoyable.

now all you need to do is get into casting!

burningsquirrels good writeup on the Load Master. I'm sure that will help somebody new that is thinking of starting with a LM. I'm glad your experience starting with the LM was a good one. I'll second what SSN Vet said, now you need to start casting.:D
Rusty

I have one thing that I disagree with. It's in your Number 4, concerning loading manuals. I've been loading since 1963, and I depend on loading manuals for good reliable data. You say you only need one, in case the internet is down.

I much prefer to rely on printed data that's been proven in ballistics labs. I know you probably mean the sites the powder companies have on line, but I've even seen misprints in those, and have brought it to the attention of the webmaster, who ultimately corrected it. I'm sure you didn't mean to rely on data from nameless, faceless strangers who post on the boards. Some have the best of intentions, but there are people who don't, and we've all seen them.

In my opinion, you can't have too many loading manuals.

Hope this helps.

Fred

yup, i agree with you... my intent was to say that one good book is a great starting point and to use powder websites and such... hence the "use your head" bit. the lee reloading manual i got pretty much had data for the common pistol loads for what i shoot with the most common powders that the IPSC guys use.... bullseye, unique, titegroup, clays universal, in 9x19, 40, and 45...

I load for 29 different calibers, so I consider loading manuals vital, since there's no way I can remember all those loads. I also keep good records on what I've loaded, but I only started that about 10 years ago.

The Lee manual is just a compilation of material taken from other sources and I find it lacking in many areas. Lyman puts out the best manuals, in my humble opinion, but I buy them all and cross reference.

Maybe it's because I started loading long before there were home computers and the internet, and learned on my own what I needed to know. There was no instant way to ask questions. The best you could do was write a letter to the NRA and in about two months you might get an answer.

Books are always there to reference, which is why I like them.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ah, yeah, 29 cartridges... that'll do it lol...

i guess i should rephrase.... only need one book and powder websites if you're just sticking to a few common loads in volume like IPSC shooters do...?

i just went out and found two loads that worked, now both toolheads are premanently stuck in said positions and i just load the nights away hehe.

Grrrrrrr. I just hate double posts (and no way to delete them)...Don't you?

I load a "few common loads" and I rarely use any web sites for reference. I keep 5 to 7 up to date load manuals which includes multi-page load pamphlets from powder manufacturers. About the only time I use a web site is just out of curiosity.

I don't load for IPSC or any of the rest of the acrunims, but for my own pleasure and self defence (dispatched a copperhead yesterday), at the tune of around 200 rounds a week on a Lee 3 hole turret and a classic cast single stage.

I would also prefer that peolpe that are starting out learn on a single stage to learn and understand the basics before entering the progressive world...Just my (notso) humble opinion...:scrutiny:

a few people told me to start out single stage. so when i got the load master i tried it without the indexer and immediately put it back in. then i sent one piece of brass in at a time so it worked on just one cartridge at a time till i got the hang of it.

hey, i had less than a thousand rounds of 9 and 40 on the shelf and i had to get started or run out, lol.

I agree that having multiple sources of load data is a good option so you can cross reference in case there is a miss print. I also see no problem with having only one manual and if it had to be one then I would look into the Lyman 48th or possibly the new 49th issue as this literature gives good information about the reloading process as well as good load data with pressure information (a must for a cast bullet shooter). I have a few manuals and also have the free pamphlets that come from the powder manufacturers (found at any gun store), but usually use the Lyman manual. I do occasionally look on the web to see if there is updated information on some cartridges and if something looks like a possible misprint then a simple call to the powder manufacturer will clarify things. Buy one manual if that’s what you desire and pickup some free manuals. If you like look on the powder manufacturers websites as well.

I'm glad to see another success story in the realm of reloading. It's nice to have a hobby although this one will certainly not save money as you will certainly shoot more, but it is worth having a reason to shooting more.
:D

oh i'm saving a bunch of money. i already shoot as much as i can... so the cost savings is really there for me. now i can divert funds to things like... uh... well, i bought a couple new race belts and some race mag pouches. 4 for me (limited 10) and 3 for the mrs (limited). :D

Reloaderfred has it pegged! I have over 100 manuals and annual pamphlets going back over 50 years and they all get used. I started keeping my records on 3x5 cards in a recipe box with index cards to each caliber, made notes on the cards so I don't have to repeat my mistakes or poorly performing loads. Always keep my cards, gottem going back over 30 years. Good Shooting, everyone!!!!!

just a quick update.

i was in a hurry last night. i lubed the machine, loaded brass, arranged 100 bullets on the table, loaded powder, verified drop weight, ran first five rounds and checked weights and OAL, then loaded the rest of the 95 rounds i needed for the match. then case gaged each round, remade 3 rounds because i didn't like three of them, passed the three through the gage, then marked them pink in the back (nobody wants to pick up pink brass, and they stand out lol!), and packed them in ammo carriers, then emptied the powder hopper, put the cover back on the machine... i think it was under half an hour from when i entered the room and left the room. obviously, if i were making 250... i think maybe 45 minutes start to stop. loading the ammo goes fast... it's the starting and stopping that takes as long, and the case gage/brass marking process that adds a lot of time... but i'm getting faster at it now that i'm starting to get into the swing of things.

to all the people that say lee sucks.... "whatever." :)

ya for sure i believe you do need more reloading manuals. Same time like others you have the basics and have done a good job. as time goes on i see a lot more accessories coming your way. Then if for some reason you get into casting. God help you. In my prime i can cast about 300 bullets in an hour on a 2 cavity mold. about 800 an hour on a 6. So you spend one good saturday on casting for one bullet one caliber and your set for a long time.

do you wear respiratory protection when casting?

I've been casting bullets since about 1968 and my last blood test for lead was within the normal range. I don't wear a mask or any of that other cumbersome crap. All I do is wear a long sleeve shirt, gloves, safety glasses and have a fan behind me, blowing the fumes away from me. Or if there is a slight breeze, I set up so it's at my back. I also wash my hands after handling lead, which is the primary thing you can do to keep from ingesting lead.

I cast bullets by the thousands, so all this internet hoopla about casting being dangerous is garbage, as far as I'm concerned, as long as some common sense is applied. You're much more likely to get burned than poisoned.

I also read of people who are scared to death of their tumblers. I've got three of them that are running most of the time. They're in my garage/shop, across the shop from my loading bench. I have't been poisoned yet by them, attacked in the middle of the night, and no other spurious things have occured from them.

I've even read where some wear face masks when loading and latex gloves. Probably wear scrubs, too. I've loaded around 750,000 + rounds, and once again, my lead levels are normal.

My thought is, if it scares a person that much, maybe they should go back to their video games and give up reloading. And driving, eating prepared foods, working around the house, or just living for that matter.

Whew, I feel much better now for getting that off my chest.

Hope this helps.

Fred

wow. i guess people really bugged you about it in the past, huh? :D

Yep. There are a lot of "internet experts" who spout all kinds of advice, but very little of it is based on science. The lead issue is one I've studied, not only for reloading, but for lead issues on shooting ranges, etc. I've spoken to the experts in the field and they dispel most of what is posted on the net. Ed Guster III, of the EPA, and Rick Patterson, the CEO of SAAMI and range affairs officer for NSSF, have written several books on the subject. I've talked to both of them on several occasions and they know what they're talking about on lead issues, unlike some who post anonymously on the internet.

Hope this helps.

Fred

figure i might as well update.

i've already paid for my equipment twice over! i'm also lubing my brass after the tumbler by spraying hornady one shot into a gallon zip-loc freezer bag (durable) and then rolling the brass around inside. i loaded about 600 of 40sw and 300 of 9mm in just over two hours, now that i got my dies doing what i want them to. i no longer worry about case checking each cartridge when i'm done, i just dump them in small batch boxes that have a post-it with date and load info. from there, they go into mtm ammo boxes and it's off to the matches.

i love this thing! i now recommend lee machines to anyone who asks me about reloading. :)

i no longer worry about case checking each cartridge when i'm done, i just dump them in small batch boxes that have a post-it with date and load info. from there, they go into mtm ammo boxes and it's off to the matches.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, Mate, but I own a few of the fast making ammo machines as well and I ALWAYS do quality control on each and every round with a case gauge after they come off the press and into the bin, no matter how sure I am or how good the dies are set up. Gives me one more chance to catch something that ain't right, You know what I mean.


LGB

let me clarify the actual process i go through... in 40sw each tube holds 22 pieces of brass, so each 'batch' is 88 rounds. each batch i check COL of the first of each tube to ensure that they're all coming out properly (1 every 22), then the loaded rounds are off to the larger batch boxes. at this point, this is where i used to case gage the rounds before putting them into the MTM boxes. but now i'm doing much larger batches... for regular matches, i don't case gage; for major matches, i case gage all rounds, maybe 1 in 200 or more don't pass - juuuust barely - however they do pass going in and out of the barrel, which is fine, and end up being tossed back into the larger batch bin or in a bin marked 'pin shoot'. after going up to 1800/mo at my highest and case gageing them all, i got very tired of it. it seems like the lee FCD works very well. if a case has gone in and out of it, it's undersize. the only ones that won't pass gage are those that have been shot in glocks (i know by the primer mark) and are badly belled. I look out for those now while sorting brass and put them in their own bin so i can keep an eye on them. most of the other reloaders i shoot with gage their ammo for major matches, but not every single round. i'm more worried about double charges (which i'm not very), but those don't have a chance to happen unless there's some sort of production stoppage and i end up pulling the ever twice, as in the case of say, a round from the case feeder tripped and i didn't see it till i pull the lever till the shell plate got caught on the tipped brass. that was a long time ago, i now just automatically check the powder and primer station after every stoppage, of which there isn't much. only the people familiar with the lee will understand, but sometimes the brass might trip on the way to the shell plate if it doesn't already have a deprimed brass in the first station to bump into before the shell plate advances. that's usually 1 in 100-150 pulls of the lever, if at all. in the last run, i think if happened twice in 600 pulls.

well, long story short, what got me case gaging in the beginning was because i had horrible experiences with factory reloads and ammo being too fat to fit in my barrel. i case gaged atlanta arms and ammo blue box and got maybe 1 in 5 that didn't pass gage, and of those maybe 1 in 4 that didn't pass barrel. that was what drove me to reload in the beginning. i was infuriated with ammo that would jam, or have the bullet ride back into the case in almost every stage i shot. now that i'm reloading on my own and also since i've gotten better at my brass selection and sorting,, i rarely get a case that doesn't pass gage... but they always end up passing the barrel.

Squirrals,
I am certain that the last thing you want to hear is a lecture. It sounds like you have your own system in place.

I wish you all the best, Mate.

LGB

all good. input is always appreciated. :)

Good job there burningsquirrels.

The input from someone new who just got started is as good for newbies as us old timers who sometimes forget how it is to be brand new to reloading. We sometimes take some stuff for granted and forget we did not know it back then. :)

Sounds like you've got a system that's working for you, burningsquirrels, and that's great!

My only comment concerning your original posting... it's ok to decap a live primer. You just have to be slow and smooth, not quick and jerky. I've had to do it a couple of times in over 15 years of reloading, with nary a detonation. However, I wore eye protection and ear plugs, and made sure nothing flammable was on the bench, just to be careful.

ah, yeah.... occasionally if the primer trough gets really dirty, i may get one pull that doesn't feel right... chances are it's a tipped primer. those i set aside if they can make it to the powder drop station and set aside to be re-done at the end of the run. the worst is when there's a complete stoppage when the primer is completely fubar'd and the shell plate won't turn. it's annoying, but only happened 5-6 times in how many thousands of rounds when the trough was dirty... and maybe one time when i think i was getting too excited and was throwing the handle a little too happy. :)

as far as safety goes....

i don't think i mentioned that i also bought the lee primer blast shield... no accidents there yet with using only CCI 500 primers. i wear glasses, so i have eye protection all the time. if i'm wearing contacts, i have all my different shooting glasses i can throw on.

i guess it'd be neat if i could post a pic of my gun room. hm, maybe i'll take a few later this week...

Approaching 10k rounds on my Load-master.

Things broken/replaced/fixed:

Primer pin: I had a problem where a tipped primer screwed some things up. When loading 40 cal I started using an EGW undersize die in the priming station. Had a piece of brass that wasn't centered right because the arm that keeps the brass in place wasn't so tight. Crushed the case, and crushed the primer, and it put a dent in the face of the priming pin. With more patience I probably could've squared off the face again, but ended up jkust getting a $6 replacement pin. I feel it's more my fault of not making sure the arms were tight and centering brass.

Primer pin return spring - replaced that once. Not sure what happened, but I kinked it bad. I just noticed the pin wasn't returning properly every time.

Primer slider - replaced it a couple times, because a tipped primer from dirtiness or misplaced case would do something funky, and the primer pin would eat the slider. Good thing they're a buck!

The screw that locks the tool head in place: put a drop of weak loc-tite on it. It can back out on its own. :shrug: I think the return chain rubs on it and can make it come undone.

The case feeder-pusher thing. I put a small 2" c-clamp on it to increase clamping force so that the sliding device has more friction against the case feeder bar, since the screws couldn't go any tighter on the thing.

Observations:

I started running into a lot of priming problems at about 8k, and rough running. I broke it down to bits and cleaned the heck out of it. Ran awesome and perfect after that! I lubed up with 5w30 motor oil, nothing special.

Noticed that with some powders (Clays, American Select, those disc-shaped ones) that the adjustable powder bar can be inconsistent by a small amount. I will stick to the fixed discs... Perhaps even use an extra fine sanding flap wheel to slightly enlarge some of the holes when I need a small bump.

I'm able to keep OAL within 1.125-1.135, not the most consistent but I am saving up for a competition seating die to help deal with that. I think the Lee seating die just has a lot of slop in it. When using fixed discs, powder drops are dead-nuts consistent.

I got my money's worth out of this press. After a thorough cleaning, it feels liek it's running like brand new again. Just gota remember to have a couple parts on hand in case I chew up a primer pin or slider again the night before a match.

I may upgrade to a Dillon 650 with a casefeeder - I loaded on a Dillon before for fun and it's a nice machine... But at $800+ it's not worth it to upgrade unless my Lee turns to junk first. That's a lot of ammo or reloading supplies! I will definitely hold off the upgrade as the Lee LM does what I need it to do.

Summary: Two thumbs up. Don't let anyone tell you Lee is junk. Takes a while to set up, runs loose like a jimmy rigged soap box derby racer, but objectively it works great for the amateur sport shooter and makes good ammo.

Maybe I'll post an update later this year at 20k... That is, if being married doesn't slam the brakes on shooting. :D