Guns sold on the internet


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John Fugate
August 12, 2008, 04:17 PM
What happend to the industry standard 3 day inspection ? I see AS IS everywhere I look. I understand anyone can sell whatever they want under their own conditions. I have no problem with that,, its America and you can make your own choices. If I enter into a AS IS deal , I go in expecting the worst and I am willing to settle for the worst. I am the one who agreed to the terms. I am just curious to why AS IS seems to be the new trend. It only take one AS IS deal to make a future interneter never return after his first bad deal as is deal goes bad. I understand its their choice to engage in a AS IS deal but what does these AS IS sour deals do for the used firearm business in general. How can this be good for the industy ? I say and do give a man 3 days and if he doesnt like the gun for ANY reason give him the right to return it for full refund provided its returned in the same condition as it left. Buyers pay their money and they deserves to get exactly what they pay for. Read the fine print before you buy, when the terms are AS IS think about the choice you are about to make and be ready to live with it because you will have no other choice but to. I feel comfortable when I buy a gun with a 3day inspection and I want my customers to feel the same.


John Fugate

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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 12, 2008, 04:19 PM
My take is because they want to have their money guaranteed, and these crummy gas prices aren't helping any.

VegasOPM
August 12, 2008, 04:20 PM
That is why I don't buy guns or vehicles without a test drive.

John Fugate
August 12, 2008, 04:25 PM
Quote
"My take is because they want to have their money guaranteed, and these crummy gas prices aren't helping any".

They may want their money garanteed but the guy on the other end may want exactly what he paid for also . The guy on the other end on the deal is having to buy that 4 dollar gas just like the seller. Whats fair is fair. AS IS IS BS

Cosmoline
August 12, 2008, 04:37 PM
In UCC terms "as is" indicates the offer is made with a waiver of implied warranties. It should only be used when selling a DEFUNCT firearm. For example I bought an "as is" bargain barrel 1891 Argie for parts that had a badly rusted receiver and certified in writing that I would not be trying to fire it. That was an "as is" firearm and there was no implied warranty of fitness for shooting.

However, in the vast majority of gun sales there *IS* an implied warranty that the firearm will in fact function as a firearm. If that's not clear from the internet offer, make a point of clarifying it BEFORE you buy the firearm. Ask the seller to confirm that it is functional and won't blow up. You can also bargain for a set period to inspect the firearm upon receipt. Ask questions, negotiate, and clarify.

Personally, there are some types of firearms I simply don't buy without getting a close hands-on look first. Colt revolvers, for example.

Drgong
August 12, 2008, 04:39 PM
I know in other types of auctions people will use it, then ship it back and then demand a full refund.

As is is no complants, the seller gets less money, but 10x less headaces, and for many sellers, that is worth it. Generally I willing to pay a premimum to handle the actual gun I am buying. I rather pay $400 in the store for a gun then buy online for $350, as after FFL and shipping it not much of a change in price.

MinnMooney
August 12, 2008, 04:40 PM
As is is B.S.
Not so fast. The seller wants to sell the gun and not have to go thru the time and expense of selling it a second time. If the potential buyer doesn't trust the seller than don't buy what he has for sale. The cost of postage both ways makes for a huge loss for the buyer and/or seller if it has to be returned. And think of the FFL holder to whom the gun is being shipped. Who is going to pay him for receiving the gun, calling the buyer, letting the buyer inspect the gun at the shop (or worse, going thru all of the paperwork and phone call to let the buyer take it out of the shop for a test firing)?

At the least, there is $50-$75 gone by the time the seller gets the gun back. Most of the time, the buyer will be responsible for all of those costs. If you're not willing to go to that expense and have nothing when it's gone then buy from someone that is within driving distance so you can inspect the gun.


to cosmoline : "as is" in almost every state means just that - AS IS! There is no implied warranty or expectation of condition. The ONLY condition of the item is that which is expressly said in the text and/or picture of the item. If the seller says, "I have a very nice, useable gun for sale." then he has stated that it's in "very nice" shape (left to some, but not much, interpratation) and "useable", which any court would interpret to mean "can be used for the purpose that any normal purchaser would want to use this gun for". "As is" with no qualifiers is 100% AS IS .

Sam
August 12, 2008, 04:41 PM
Hey guys you can establish any kind of deal you want. If he won't allow the inspection period, buy from someone else.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....M.P.H.

Majic
August 12, 2008, 04:46 PM
I rather pay $400 in the store for a gun then buy online for $350, as after FFL and shipping it not much of a change in price.
That doesn't happen when you are shopping for used out of production models. Some may had limited numbers made and you don't run across one everyday. All of us don't buy brand new guns.

bearmgc
August 12, 2008, 04:48 PM
I've had exactly 1 crummy internet deal in almost 14 years of buying/selling online. I think thats pretty good. If you have any qualms about the seller or deal, then don't buy. Even FTF and store buying has its hazzards, ie. stolen guns. I bought a rifle from a gun store, and then traded it to another store about 9mo later. A person came to that store and recognised the rifle as one stolen from him a year ago. Sure enough, its serial number was listed in record, but neither one of the stores bothered to check its serial number against the list of stolen firearms. Oboy.

MinnMooney
August 12, 2008, 04:55 PM
All of us don't buy brand new guns.

We don't? hmmmmmmmmmm...

Only kidding. I will only purchase NIB guns on-line. If it's used there are just way too many variables and subjectiveness to "condition". One owner's "90% condition" is another buyer's "75% condition".

Another thing.... I'm way too suspicious about a target-grade rifle that someone is selling that "only has a 100 rounds thru it". Does it really have 100 or does it have 500-1000 hot rounds thru it or did he shoot it and find that it only groups at 1.5 MOA? Kinda scares me off.

pistolero6869
August 12, 2008, 05:22 PM
I would never buy a complete firearm over the internet. Unless it was new or dealing with a brick and morter store thats selling. like cdnn, davisons, etc

FCFC
August 12, 2008, 05:46 PM
I don't see anything wrong with an "as is" sale. I would want to know why the seller is listing on that basis. If a seller accurately describes a good gun in detail but just wants to eliminate the posibility of having to take it back from a finicky buyer, I would still be interested in the gun.

Buying an "as is" gun under this scenario should result in a slightly lower selling price. If I trust the seller, and the gun meets my needs, I just might buy it.

If the seller is selling a gun "as is" because it is damaged, messed up, or falling apart, then I'm not interested in that anyway.

If a gun in the first category is being sold "as is" and you're wanting to make a purchase on the basis of a 3 day inspection, then negotiate that with the seller. You can either convince the seller that you're a serious buyer or maybe offer the guy an extra $25-50.

Work it out with the seller. In fact, a really important factor in Internet sales is communicating with the seller. About anything. Before the bid/sale. If you have trouble communicating with the seller before the bid/sale, it is a bad sign.

Old Fuff
August 12, 2008, 05:53 PM
I think that "as is" is largely limited to auctions selling items on consignment. This being the case the sale is considered final, and the stipulation is not limited to gun auctions, but others as well.

Sales between individuals, or between individuals and dealers in both new and used equipment often include an inspection period.

In any case it is up to the buyer to decide if they want to bid or buy, depending on the conditions that govern the sale.

I have bought a number of flaming deals off of “as is” auctions, and have yet to be disappointed. Maybe it’s a matter of luck, but I doubt it. I am careful who I deal with, and examine the provided pictures carefully. I also don’t expect used merchandise to be absolutely unused and perfect in every respect, although that has happened. One that comes to mind was a Colt Police Positive .38 that was made in early 1942. It was one of the very last ones that were produced, and was to my eye, unfired. It cost under $300.00, and no one else even bothered to bid on it.

Buying at auctions entails some risk. If you don’t want to take a chance buy elsewhere, and leave the bargains to me. :evil:

bogie
August 12, 2008, 06:05 PM
What's it cost to send a piece "for inspection" to someone? I suspect that a few dealers met up with the folks who like to walk in a gun store, and fondle everything in the cabinet... who have now discovered that they can do it by mail too...

damien
August 12, 2008, 06:09 PM
I wouldn't buy guns off the Internet, period. Maybe it is because of the selection up here in Northern Illinois. With the Cabela's, two Bass Pro, three Gander Mountains, and some very nice independents (GAT, Megasports), pretty much anything you want is in stock somewhere. Internet dealers do not offer any price advantage. It is infuriating that Internet gun dealers are the execption to the rule. Almost all other Internet merchants beat local prices every time, even Wal*Mart prices. Plus with the lack of inspection and the shipping prices these days, it just doesn't seem like a good deal at all.

Monkeybear
August 12, 2008, 06:11 PM
I have sold guns online and my biggest fear with offering a 3 day inspection period is buyers remorse.

AS IS simply means "no returns for any reason". It means that you had better inspect the gun and make sure it is to your liking before you hand over the money because I am not likely to give it back should you change your mind. I don't put "AS IS" in my for sale ads because unless an inspection period is expressly mentioned there is no reason to expect one. I had always thought the de facto return policy for firearms and ammo was that there was none. Also: all the people I have had the chance to do business with were fine honest people and the deals went smoothly.

I have only offered an inspection period once, and that was with an AR15 I had built. I knew it was built right but I wanted the buyer to have plenty of opportunity to inspect and fire it so I gave him a week to shoot the heck out of it.

John Fugate
August 12, 2008, 06:28 PM
I understand buyers remorse, its just going to happen. People spend more than they should thats why the country is in the shape its in. I know there are two sides to everything, I am talking about the guy who sells you a Smith and Wesson Model 29 that he rates in great shape just a turnline and shows you a picture of the side without the pavement rash and sells it as is. You recieve the gun and you get taken and he says sorry my add reads as is sorry pal. That is the downside to that. I have this happen I would say one in every 10 as is deals,, but when its advertised as is I dont complain. I just go on up the road. I do complain when seller does not advertise as is but if you call its always as is. I have had people renig on thier advertised three day inspections, but thats just going to happen too. I am just fortune to get the 9good deals to the one bad one. I think a 3 day inspection shows the buyer the seller has nothing to hide. As is reminds me of to bad. We are just lucky the majority of sellers are good people. God Bless the good people.
John

Hawk
August 12, 2008, 06:40 PM
I am talking about the guy who sells you a Smith and Wesson Model 29 that he rates in great shape just a turnline and shows you a picture of the side without the pavement rash and sells it as is.

Gad. That would blow chunks.

I'm too nervous to buy from anyone over the 'net that hasn't been thourougly vetted. That generally means a bazillion positive feedbacks and some THR elder statesman vouching for the guy besides. As a consequence, I buy very few guns online.

My concern has been buying from someone dealing in collectibles and discovering the product was exactly as described cosmetically but didn't meet my needs as a shooter. I'm reasonably sure that, although inspections are noted as "non-firing", the few folks I deal with would take it back to sell to someone less interested in shooting the thing unless it was unfired when I got it (so I also avoid "unfired").

I've had singular bad luck with Pythons hence will not buy anything with a picture of a horse that I can't shoot first. This tends to exclude me from bidding on Colts generally but it makes Fuff happy. :D

John Fugate
August 12, 2008, 06:44 PM
Monkeybear,
If you intend to sell your guns as is... PUT AS IS IN PRINT. Who can agrue with that. The buyer can expect not to be able to return the product. When the terms not mentioned the seller may think he has an inspection ? You have to help people that are new to the community the best you can. Communication is the key. John

bogie
August 12, 2008, 07:15 PM
If I'm selling something that's more than a few bucks, I'll do some MAJOR pictures of it... And either put them on auction site, or happily email them to folks who ask.

FWIW, Canon's nicely affordable 570 cameras have a nifty macro feature - You can get nice and close up.

And I'll make sure to take pictures of defects. I want the buyer to know what he's getting. If there's an idiot scratch on a 1911 or a permanent fingerprint in the bluing, then they need to know that it's there.

Guns and more
August 12, 2008, 07:32 PM
I rather pay $400 in the store for a gun then buy online for $350, as after FFL and shipping it not much of a change in price.
I agree. So far I've only bought new, but being able to look over the gun, check the action, check for defects in the finish and avoid the FFL transfer fee is worth something to me. Plus having a dealer to complain to if there is a problem later, "I bought this here and.....".

Soybomb
August 12, 2008, 08:50 PM
I've sold several guns online (and I think they've all been in excellent condition and better than advertised) and I still sell them as is. I'll answer all questions a buyer has before the sale and provide them with any pictures they want. I take special care to photograph and point out any damage. I don't want the buyer to be surprised or unhappy. I sell everything as is. I'm not a dealer and I'm not looking to lead someone through buying a gun or waste time and money with someone who gets it and has buyers remorse, someone that doesn't know the difference between copper and rust in the bore, someone that uses it and sends it back as a free trial, someone to damages it and sends it back, etc. Anything misrepresented or misleading should come down on the seller, but be a savvy shopper and do your homework on both the gun and the seller and I think you'll be fine.

There's a lot of good people and good guys available as is. Know what you're buying and check out the seller. While my guns are sold as is for my protection from buyers, my reputation with buyers shows I'm a good seller. Online gun shopping isn't for everyone either and there's nothing wrong with that.

DRYHUMOR
August 12, 2008, 10:00 PM
Part of the as is equation concerns liability.

Say you sold a nice gun of some sort, to a nice enough sort of person, they take it out and for whatever reason, it fails. Pieces of metal damage an eye or brain, then the lawyers get involved, then your retirement fund disappears.

I a more trusting world filled with people who conduct their day to day business with integrity and professionalism. An inspection period would consist of:

I pay for the gun to get to me.

I inspect it, want it, then send the funds to you.

or

I inspect it, you did not describe it thoroughly, I don't want it, I pay to send it back to you.

Sure, I'm out some shipping, but I'm not out several hundred or thousand dollars.

Used to be a man's word meant something.

Tell it like it is, if the stock is gouged, tell me I can restock and spend accordingly. If the bore's pitted, that's fine I can rebarrel.

I've gotten a few guns on the internet with what might fall under the "minor handling marks" that were described. Or the "camera won't capture the mark, blemish, etc" that's fine, minor stuffs fine. I intend to use the gun most of the time.

I stay away from the shaky, out of focus, show only one side type sales anyway. Most sellers will send more photos if you ask, and if you ask about a "blem" they will try to get a good pic of it.

Drgong
August 12, 2008, 10:12 PM
That doesn't happen when you are shopping for used out of production models. Some may had limited numbers made and you don't run across one everyday. All of us don't buy brand new guns.

If it is a rare rare gun that you been looking for, your going to have to talk to the person selling, and if they sa "As is means As is" and you don't like it, walk away.

Actually most of my guns ARE used, (I have bought all of one pistol and one rifle NIB) but I normally buy used guns in stores or from friends so that I can inspect them.

Mike Sr.
August 12, 2008, 10:47 PM
During the last month I have bought two S&W 3" 65's from FFL's with integrity over the net.

1) In an auction, picture of one side only. I purchased the 65. First thing I do when I got an older S&W I take it appart and check the insides for alteration. If altered I restore to original factory spec's. Well, I took this 65 apart and WOW was it rusty inside. I took pictures sent them to seller and he offered a full refund.

BUT THE WIZARD I AM WITH STAINLESS....I wanted to discuss an alternative. We both agreed. He sent me some money back. I worked on the 65, it's still a tiny bit ruff but the internals are impeccable.

Plus I have handled Smiths for more than 35+yrs this 65 had the best lock up when cocked to fire: ABSOLUTELY NO CYLINDER END SHAKE OR MOVEMENT AND ALIGNMENT WAS DEAD ON.
OWNER MUST'A BEEN a dick-head who fired a bunch of lead wadcutters then put this 65 away and forgot about it...this 65 is a keeper. It's not a $550+ Smith but you'd have to show me more than 4-C notes for me to even consider selling this 65!!!!
---
2)
Just yesterday I picked up a Ladysmith 3" 65 with a funny looking sideplated scope mount, which used existing factory holes to mount the scope mount and a Laseraim Red dot which looks almost new.

I took off the side-plate scope mount. Then I drove by http://www.cylinder-slide.com/ , a few blocks from my Dealr's place of business and happened to catch Bill, coming back to the shop. I want to buy the missing side plate screws and Bill helped me personally! I'm not Bill's drinking buddy but I've conversated with him at gun shows for more than 30 and whenever I have seen him we've always had cordial conversations and he laff's at my crummy jokes!!!!

At one gun show in Fremont, Nebraska, Bill gave me one of his cards, he said "Here my's card Mike and there's a note on the back".
On the back he wrote "this card is worth $100 in gunsmithing work"...and back then I figured I'd nver be able to afford a custom gun; I saved the card, for sentimental reasons because of his random act of kindness.

We moved to a new home and somewhere I lost the card but I can tell you right were his table was at the g-show when he wrote that card. I still might find that card but I'll never use it... it'll be a keepsake from one of the premier G-smiths of our time...

Did not mean to digress: Bill said the screw holes were "messed' up and they required work. I left the 65 with him.

I called the FFL I bought it from, and the FFL seems willing to pay for the repairs, of course I will send receipts and I will provide him with Bill's phone number should the seller want to call and see if I'm BS'ing....Bill will set him straight.

Point is: seller is willing to pays for repairs to this 65.

This Seller's willingness must be recognized and applauded...

mnrivrat
August 12, 2008, 11:50 PM
There is something very workable between the 3 day return for any reason , and the "as is" sale.

That is selling as discribed and having return privilage if anything significant is not called. To be honest, even this draws problems. The subjective nature of looking at defects will always be a problem and I can see where sellers just don't want the hassle of guns returned for BS reasons. Read the terms of the aucton, ask your seller questions, request more pictures if it is appropriate to do so, and then decide to bid or not. Then live with it if it meets the terms within reason. In other words if the seller says it has some scattered dings, it has some scattered dings ! If you want a photo of the worst of them , and it is not provided, then requist it.

The time for good coorespondance is before you bid - returns are a waste of time and money for both parties. They should be avoided by proper communication.

esq_stu
August 12, 2008, 11:59 PM
I've had exactly 1 crummy internet deal in almost 14 years of buying/selling online. Same here. After about 30 guns and one lemon, I am not ready to give it up. I've learned a lot and still feel confident. I am not afraid of as-is unless it's a make/model with a mediocre reputation to start with. I find most sellers are concerned about bad ratings.

I feel the same about selling - I won't sell a weapon I wouldn't buy (one that I know malfunctions) - I'll fix it first or leave it in the safe.

Monkeybear
August 13, 2008, 12:02 AM
If you intend to sell your guns as is... PUT AS IS IN PRINT. Who can agrue with that. The buyer can expect not to be able to return the product. When the terms not mentioned the seller may think he has an inspection ? You have to help people that are new to the community the best you can. Communication is the key. John

I can't think of a single place or person that will take a return on a firearm that has been fired. Most places I know won't take a return on an unfired one without a very, very good reason. Now I have not witnessed very many attempted returns of firearms at gunstores but if you try to make a return on a gun within the inspection period you better be able to tell the guy at the counter what was wrong with the gun you bought. That you "changed your mind" isn't gonna fly.

I don't sell "as is" by the way. "As Is" means no returns for any reason. I'll give you your money back but you had better have an excellent reason.

Inspection periods are fine and all when offered but there is no reason to expect them. If I don't offer an inspection period then you should not expect to get it.

goon
August 13, 2008, 12:32 AM
I can and have seen it from both sides.

When I sell or trade a gun online or in person, I am telling you the truth. If you live near me I'll meet you at the local range and you can fire a few rounds through it. After that, we to the dealer and money changes hands. You leave with the gun. If I never see you again, fine by me. The deal is over.
I can see why someone selling online would want to do the same thing.

On the other hand, this only works online if you have a sense of honor.
I have been screwed by someone on THR. He sold me a defective gun that I think he probably knew was defective with a money back guarantee. When I had problems he refused to honor those terms.
Either way, I'm a lot more hesitant of buying or trading online anymore.

Some people are just awful low.

moooose102
August 13, 2008, 10:38 AM
well, i only buy NEW guns, so unless they ship me the wrong gun, or it is damaged in some way, it probably wouldnt be a concern to me. but if i was buying a USED gun. i would definitly want a couple of days, to inspect, clean, and test fire that puppy. if the barrel was scrap, or the cylinder (revolver) didnt line up, or whatever, i wouldnt want to be stuck with a gun that is going to require hundreds of dollars in repairs. at least unless i knew that in the beginning. if it was not what the seller claimed it was. i would want my money back.

John Fugate
August 13, 2008, 11:33 AM
As a buyer would you rather have an inspection period or not ? That is the question I ask myself. I think a person should be 100% happy with their purchase or have the right to send it back.
John Fugate fugatefirearms.com

Soybomb
August 13, 2008, 01:04 PM
Ohhhh you sell guns, I see :D

jaymac
August 13, 2008, 02:27 PM
Auction Arms and Gun Broker are AUCTION sites. You pays your money and takes your chances. If you want to inspect, tear down, shoot, etc. Buy in person.

Most auctions are always "AS IS". I have purchased 20+ firearms over the internet from auction and individuals over the last 3 years and have not had a "bad" deal. One or two did not have quite the finish left I was expecting but I bought at auction for a good price.

Monkeybear
August 13, 2008, 03:15 PM
if i was buying a USED gun. i would definitly want a couple of days, to inspect, clean, and test fire that puppy

I have never heard of a shop offering an inspection period where you were allowed to fire the weapon. Even with an unfired gun within the "inspection period" it is my understanding that it will still take some convincing to get your money back from most places.

I think a person should be 100% happy with their purchase or have the right to send it back.

I agree that inspection periods are nice, especially on used guns. Gives you a chance to break it down, clean it and make sure its as good as you thought it was. As far as the 100% satisfaction guarantee........well I admire your commitment but I could not offer the same. Best I can offer when I sell a gun is that: To the best of my ability I have described the guns I am selling accurately and if I sell you a lemon by mistake I will try to help you out.

I work in a bookstore. People think that satisfaction guaranteed means that if they buy a new book, read 80% of it, bend the pages all the way back, crease the cover and spine and then decide that the book is "too long" for them they should get their money back. They are not 100% satisfied with their purchase. We tell them that we can not guarantee that they will like a book, just that the pages are all there and won't fall out of their own accord. No one ever understands this and we usually just give people back their money because its cheaper too do so then to pay me to argue with them for half an hour.

PRM
August 13, 2008, 03:50 PM
I've bought and sold a numbers of guns over the net. Ninety-Nine percent of the transactions have been above board. Mostly Second and Third Generation C&B Colts (NIB). Most of the sellers have been honest and I have had a couple offer my money back if I was not satisfied. The one transaction that went bad was a #2 S&W - antique, engraved, ivory grips, cherry case, ivory tipped ram-rod, and a box of original cartridges. The gun was advertised as being "mint" prior to the custom work being done on it and was "as new" in condition. When it came in I noticed the action was stiff, just wasn't right. I sent it to a specialist on vintage S&Ws and was told the sleeve that is threaded and is pressed into the cylinder was broke and binding. The seller refused to do anything about it and accused me of breaking it. Long story - it cost me an additional $500 to have it repaired. The original engraver who was also involved in the restoration told me the gun was broke when he did the initial engraving and that the owner (guy, who sold it to me) knew it was broke and said he wanted it for a show piece. I will probably get my money back out of it - and it will be as close to 100% (mechanically) as possible and accurately described when it is sold the next time. But, I had to eat the additional cost on the front end. I filed a complaint with the on-line site that the gun was bought through and was told they did not take sides in a transaction. The seller also terminated the listing as expired instead of sold and got out of paying their commission. Along with me, he essentially ripped off the listing site. They obviously do not care since the seller is still listing guns with them.


Internet Sales:

Most are legit - but you can get burned

On most guns it would cost you more to go to another state and pursue any legal recourse than you will gain.

On high dollar guns, use a third party. Have it sent to a reputable source to be checked out. Once you get the OK - then transfer funds. If the seller is not willing to do that, you got a red flag.

Sites like Gun Broker (one of the best)(not the site mentioned above) have a feedback system. Also, I have had vendors provide other avenues of feedback such as ebay (even though gun transactions are not allowed - gives you an idea of what type of person you are dealing with).

John Fugate
August 13, 2008, 10:18 PM
I understand you gentlemens points, you have valid reasons for not giving inspection periods. Its just something I do and it works for me but I am a high volume dealer. I can see where if you had just a few to sell you may choose a different method. Good luck to everyone, I feel there are alot of good people on this forum. Thank You for your input.

John Fugate fugatefirearms.com

Flame Red
August 14, 2008, 09:48 AM
When I sell guns on the Internet I usually check off 'As is' only because the cost of the FFL fees and shipping involved if someone wants to send it back.

If the potential buyer questions the 'as is', I tell them they can have a no fire inspection, but they will not be refunded the original shipping costs, They have to ship it back on their dime and I will withhold my FFL costs going both ways. That is a significant chunk of change. I have never had one come back.

cortez kid
August 14, 2008, 10:10 AM
You bet he sells guns, Soybomb. You can read all about him on the S&W board.
kid

John Fugate
August 14, 2008, 01:59 PM
If you want to read something look on Gunbroker under Fugatefirearms at the 1269 positive feedbacks that would give you a better understanding than some random gossip column.

cortez kid
August 14, 2008, 02:46 PM
I understand it's a "gossip column" for you now, but before you were booted out, it was a prime source of income. At this, I'll leave it alone. Good day sir.
kid

Vaarok
August 14, 2008, 03:02 PM
Ask before you buy if you're concerned, and if they don't answer to your satisfaction, don't bid. Auctions are meant to sell an item in the condition it's in, and it's up to the buyer to determine that condition. All the seller has to do is list it, I've even bought a couple "Old military gun, unknown cal, bore o.k." back in the early days of Gunbroker.

Caveat emptor, do your homework, and ask all questions before bidding.

Personally, with probably a hundred guns bought online, I've been dissatisfied with one, and it was because I misread the text accompanying the rifle.

Griz44
August 14, 2008, 05:28 PM
I do sell on the internet. I sell both new and used. New guns I cannot take back. They have to be sent to the factory for any needed repair. If someone decides they really don't want the gun, then they should sell it on their own, not expect a the dealer who sold in good faith to cover their lack of character. I will offer to buy the gun from them at wholesale prices, since that's what I usually pay for guns in the first place. A buyer that just wants to "try it out" needs to go to a gun range that rents guns and try them out until he finds what he likes and needs. Try any of the local gun retailers, Cabellas, Academy, etc..... Ever see the sign that says "NO RETURNS"? They are there, for the new and used guns they sell. If a buyer changes their mind after getting a gun home, don't blame the seller! I sell through auction sites, and do a lot of buying as well. Watch the feedback ratings very closely. Reputation is everything. I state "as is-no returns without good cause". I also state that if the gun has been mis-represented or is not functional as stated, I will take it back. I have never had a weapon returned for those reasons. I also take many detailed photos of each gun to have as evidence that a buyer has abused or damaged a gun, then tries to send it back claiming it was not as stated in the auction. Yes, they have tried that. I have had guns returned because the buyer could not pass the NICS on the receiving end of the deal as well. If a buyer cannot pass a NICS, why did he order the gun in the first place? Some think that they can buy on the internet and circumvent the law. Reputable dealers don't do that. In that case, I deduct shipping, handling fees from the receiving FFL, and re-stock fees, and send them the balance. Is that fair? The seller gets cheated more often than the buyer. 99% of sellers are good people. The bad sellers get weeded out really fast. I can't say that about buyers. Bad buyers seem to have no end.

Orange_Magnum
August 14, 2008, 10:23 PM
Guns of today suck. AS IS reflects the crap put out by the industry.

John Fugate
August 14, 2008, 11:07 PM
Kid,
I have a close friend who still gets all the bargains on there he has a good eye and a unlimited bankroll. He lives on there day and night. I have much more free time since I left the scene. About all I do anymore is fish and travel.
John

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