My rifle used against me


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JimmerJammerMrK
August 12, 2008, 09:53 PM
I'm moving into an apartment in a few weeks and I'm somewhat worried about securing my firearms while living there. I can't really afford an RSC, not to mention a safe, but I may end up picking up something like this: http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2140312&clickid=body_rv_img

Obviously, this isn't going to stop anybody from stealing anything while I'm gone, but my two biggest worries are:

1. A criminal breaking in while I am cooking/in the bathroom/etc finding a firearm, and using it against me.
2. Arriving home while a break-in is in progress, being unaware of this fact, and opening the door only to find some scum-bag pointing my rifle at me.

I may end up going with the "safe" above and some trigger locks. I'm hoping the RSC will buy me time to get out of the house in situation number 1. In situation number 2, I'm hoping the trigger locks will force the criminals to 'grab-n-stash' the guns and deal with them later, therefore not allowing them to be used on me if I walk in on them.

What do you all think? Any suggestions?

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Golden Hound
August 12, 2008, 09:57 PM
Keep your ammo in a separate safe?

Halo
August 12, 2008, 09:58 PM
Get renter's insurance and make sure your firearms are covered. Coverage is pretty cheap.

As far as fear of having someone get the drop on you, do you carry concealed? This is why a lot of people carry even in their own homes. You can carry concealed in your own home even if you don't have CCW. Obviously that won't cover every possible contingency, but it's a start.

You could also put trigger locks on your rifles. If you're not planning to use them for home defense, it would be pretty sensible to have them disabled in your scenarios. Edit: just re-read your post and saw you were already planning on trigger locks. I think that alone will prevent the scenario of someone coming in and using one of them against you.

kingpin008
August 12, 2008, 10:01 PM
Do you have a dedicated home defense gun? If so, my thoughts are as follows - when leaving the house, take the firing pins (or entire bolt) out of the rifles, and stash them/take them with you. When you arrive home, re-install pins/bolt, and go about your business. And for the HD gun, buy a gunvault or something like that for it, so you don't have to fiddle with it all the time.

Other than that, keep the ammo in a seperate locked box or something like that - most theives aren't going to hang around very long, and will probably just take the guns with them if they want them. It's not worth it for them to stick around and screw with them, waiting for the homeowner to get back. Having the ammo in a seperate enclosed container will make it even less worth it for them to deal with while they're sitting there in your house wondering when you're due back home.

Drgong
August 12, 2008, 10:06 PM
when leaving the house, take the firing pins (or entire bolt) out of the rifles, and stash them/take them with you. When you arrive home, re-install pins/bolt, and go about your business. And for the HD gun, buy a gunvault or something like that for it, so you don't have to fiddle with it all the time.

Or get a small safe and store the bolts in the safe and take them out when you need the rifles.

Kind of Blued
August 12, 2008, 10:38 PM
The problem with locking up all of your bolts/firing pins is that criminals are stupid and in a hurry and they'll steal your guns anyway.

What I did before I had a safe was use a bicycle lock and run it through the handle of every case or triggerguard, depending on the situation, then loop the bicycle lock around anything; the P-trap under your bathroom sink, a steel beam, your toilet, your fridge handle... look around, you'll find something.

If not, simply "daisy chaining" all of your guns and ammo together will make it alot more difficult to steal. My collection ended up being a 8-piece chain that was ~200 pounds and impossibly awkward to carry out unless the guy brought a hacksaw and an extra five minutes with him.

Throw some trigger locks on there while you're at it and keep the keys on you. The whole point is to slow a criminal down or discourage him. Even a 300 pound safe isn't proof that your guns won't be stolen.

Regardless of what you do with the guns that you leave at your house, get a carry permit to solve the problem of you walking into your house and finding an uninvited guest there.

If you're too young or in a "less free" state, figure out how you can transport on in your vehicle and take it with you when you go to your car and when you go to your apartment.

Soap
August 12, 2008, 10:43 PM
Buy a document safe like a Brinks from Target and put all of your bolts in there.

Kind of Blued
August 12, 2008, 10:43 PM
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2033187&cp=3077577.3085049.2292624.2292627&view=all&parentPage=family

I got one of those from Sports Authority on sale for $70 and bolted it into the wall and the floor. It isn't going anywhere unless the burglars come in with a lot of the right tools.

Rmart30
August 12, 2008, 10:50 PM
Get renter's insurance and make sure your firearms are covered. Coverage is pretty cheap

You could also put trigger locks on your rifles. If you're not planning to use them for home defense, it would be pretty sensible to have them disabled in your scenarios. Edit: just re-read your post and saw you were already planning on trigger locks. I think that alone will prevent the scenario of someone coming in and using one of them against you.

+1, get the renters ins....its cheap and well worth it. There are at least 4 or 5 apartment complex fires around here every year....

JimmerJammerMrK
August 12, 2008, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the responses so far. I have renter's insurance. Like I said, I'm not necessarily worried about the guns being stolen; things can be replaced. Lives, however, cannot, which is why I'm worried about my guns being turned against me.

I like the idea of removing the firing pins, although this may not necessarily be practical, as I don't own a handgun and have been relying on my lever action pistol-caliber carbine as a HD/SHTF gun. In my mind, a trigger lock is about as far as I'm willing to go in the compromise between security and convenience, but we'll see. Maybe this is just an excuse to buy a handgun (turning 21 soon).

As far as CCW, I'm not in a state where that is going to fly.

Thanks for the responses so far, please keep them coming!

Starship1st
August 12, 2008, 11:20 PM
These stack safes are good for apartments. Store your ammo in a different place. :cool:

Soybomb
August 12, 2008, 11:27 PM
I got one of those from Sports Authority on sale for $70 and bolted it into the wall and the floor. It isn't going anywhere unless the burglars come in with a lot of the right tools.
I don't want to take the wind out of your sails but it'd probably be pretty to open it right where it stands no matter how hard it is to move the entire unit. Where's the picture of the RSC that ab12babfqbabcacbacb121abcab (forgive me :D) posts that has been smashed in with a hammer or ax?

Some renters also use things like truck security boxes to secure their long guns and ammo.

Halo
August 12, 2008, 11:48 PM
Does your apartment have a utility closet with a lock? The last time I lived in an apartment, my AC handler and water heater were in a closet with a deadbolt door. There was enough room in there to store some things too. A thief probably wouldn't have the time to bother getting into a locked closet like that when it would be a lot easier to just ransack the stuff they already have access to out in the apartment.

As the others said, there is little you can do to stop a truly determined thief, but making things time consuming and bothersome will deter most of them who are just there to make a quick grab of obvious valuables.

JimmerJammerMrK
August 13, 2008, 04:03 PM
I think I'll be using combination-style trigger locks. Don't have to worry about where the key is that way, and hopefully they don't take too long to disengage by someone who knows the combo. Anyone had any experience with this type of lock?

jnyork
August 13, 2008, 09:07 PM
Forgive me, I'm a bit fuddle-headed tonight. His SHTF gun is a lever action. How is he going to use a trigger lock on a lever action?

+1 for the truck security box bolted to the floor. Not perfect, but pretty darn good.

Wes Janson
August 13, 2008, 11:00 PM
Obviously, this isn't going to stop anybody from stealing anything while I'm gone, but my two biggest worries are:

1. A criminal breaking in while I am cooking/in the bathroom/etc finding a firearm, and using it against me.
2. Arriving home while a break-in is in progress, being unaware of this fact, and opening the door only to find some scum-bag pointing my rifle at me.

Forgive me, but I think that perhaps you're overly worried about an incredibly unlikely eventuality. As someone else said, about the best that you can do is to carry a concealed weapon. You can't prepare for every eventuality on the planet...what happens if you've got everything locked-up tight, and then someone breaks in with a gun and you're unable to reach them in time? There are no perfect solutions. Learn to live with imperfection, and deal with it through practice and preparation.

JimmerJammerMrK
August 14, 2008, 06:44 AM
Forgive me, I'm a bit fuddle-headed tonight. His SHTF gun is a lever action. How is he going to use a trigger lock on a lever action?

I'm thinking about something like this for the leverguns: http://cgi.ebay.com/Gun-Lock-Lever-Action-Rifle-Winchester-94-92-73-Marlin_W0QQitemZ140257331589QQcmdZViewItem
Anyone had experience with these?


A simple cable lock might suffice as well, with one end through the lever and the other around the other side of the stock.

tntwatt
August 14, 2008, 07:10 AM
The most important thing in an apartment complex is not letting anyone know they are there. Hide them when you are transporting in and out to the car. With so many to chose from, the criminals want a specific reason to break into a particular apartment. The locker will be a really good deterent for most thieves due to size and noise required to get to your weapons. If theft is actually your first priority, don't waste your time with trigger locks. They have absolutely no, I repeat NO theft deterrant factor. If it is of value and can be carried, they will take it. A firearm with a lock can be moved to a more "secure location" for lock removal. The more time it takes to get to it and the harder it is to move, the less likely it will be stolen.

Have you ever seen a lock on a carryable tool box left in a truck prevent tool theft? Of course not, they just take to whole box and break the lock later. A gun locker is a little large to carry without drawing attention.

custermustache
August 14, 2008, 10:17 AM
I don't think anyone breaking into your apt. will be pointing your gun at you when you come home. if he is that kind of guy, unless you already have your gun on on you, you are probably SOL anyhoo.

I replied becauseI see a couple times in here to "get renter's insurance". It's a good idea, certainly, but you need to be aware that guns are covered for a very low limit - generally $500 - $1000 - sometimes a little more, sometimes less.

The same is generally true on your homeowner's insurance.

However, if you schedule your guns you can get the value. If you have a large collection, do not assume it is just covered on your homeowner's insurance, as insurance companies can also completely excude guns. It is rare, but I have seen it.

I am an insurance agent, and I speak from experience. Guns need to be scheduled, or you can be limited by your policy level limits, which are sometimes surprisingly low.

Insurance is a good idea, but you need to specifically ask your agent how much your guns are covered for and plan accordingly. If you have more in $$ than is covered, you need to ask for that coverage.

My advice is from experience and worth what you just paid for it.

Blackbeard
August 14, 2008, 10:36 AM
If theft is actually your first priority, don't waste your time with trigger locks. They have absolutely no, I repeat NO theft deterrant factor. If it is of value and can be carried, they will take it. A firearm with a lock can be moved to a more "secure location" for lock removal. The more time it takes to get to it and the harder it is to move, the less likely it will be stolen.

He said he was worried about them being used against him, not about them being stolen. Trigger locks would certainly address his concerns.

One other idea would be to see if you can install a deadbolt on a closet door, and keep all the stuff in there. You'd probably need the landlord's permission, but he most likely won't have a problem with it.

jnyork
August 14, 2008, 11:03 AM
I'm thinking about something like this for the leverguns: http://cgi.ebay.com/Gun-Lock-Lever-A...QQcmdZViewItem

Ok, thanks, I hadn't seen one of those before.

ilbob
August 14, 2008, 11:10 AM
Some good advice.

Start by unloading and securing the rifle somehow. Safe, metal box, chain, something.

Store the ammo separately and securely. Not somewhere obvious.

Don't tell anyone you have anything valuable in your pad. Not your buds, not your mom. No one needs to know what you have. Don't spill the beans unintentionally either.

Renters insurance.

Second story apartments tend to be somewhat more secure than ground level.

Make sure the landlord has changed the locks, or do it yourself with his blessing.

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