Aafia Siddique: What happens when you are shot by a 9mm handgun


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Raystonn
August 12, 2008, 10:52 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=5567066&page=3

They saw Siddique slumped over in a wheelchair, the result of having been shot twice with a nine millimeter side arm after she allegedly grabbed a US Army Warrant Officer's M-4 Carbine and opened fire as a team of FBI agents, US Army officers including the Warrant Officer and a Captain, and interpreters prepared to interrogate her on July 18th, the day following her arrest, according the federal complaint.


"The Warrant Officer saw and heard Siddique fire at least two shots as Interpreter 1 tried to wrestle the gun from her. No one was hit. The Warrant Officer heard Siddique exclaim 'Allah Akbar!' Another interpreter (Interpreter 2) heard Siddique yell in English 'Get the f--- out of here,' as she fired the rifle," the complaint stated.


"Her medical condition is that, she was shot in the abdomen. There are stitches that run from the breast plate area down to the belly button area...layers and layers of tissue have been sewn, sutured. We have heard reports that she has lost a kidney; we don't know if those are accurate but we are concerned about that. There has been intestinal damage, part of the intestines, we understand, have been removed," according to Elaine Whitman Sharpe, one of a team of three attorneys present for Siddique.

It sounds painful, but she lived. I suppose if they had larger caliber weapons then we wouldn't have been able to interrogate her.

-Raystonn

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rantingredneck
August 12, 2008, 10:55 PM
I suspect being shot twice in the belly with a .45ACP would have had similar results.

Placement, not caliber was what kept her from dying. Also the fact that the people that shot her were then obligated to render immediate aid.

hso
August 12, 2008, 10:57 PM
No, it's the location of the gunshot wound in this case and the availability of medical care that contributed to her survival. Even is she was shot with something that began with a 4 the outcome would have been the same.

If you read through THR you'll see the endless "caliber wars", but the fact of the matter is that where she was shot is much more important than what she was shot with.

GTSteve03
August 12, 2008, 11:09 PM
They made sure to shoot her with the 9mm since it's barely more powerful than a tazer. They wanted to interrogate her, not kill her.

If they were serious, they would have used John Browning's most-holy 1911 shooting the blessed .45ACP man-stopper. If that massive chunk of lead hits you pretty much anywhere you're going down for the count and not getting up!

.38 Special
August 13, 2008, 10:39 AM
No, man, forget that old fogey 1911. If they'd shot her with a GLOCK it would have been all over. Any caliber from a GLOCK, even if hit in the toenail, is instantly lethal and would have caused her to fly through the air and impact the nearest solid object like a ragdoll.

Don't you guys play any video games at all?

rantingredneck
August 13, 2008, 10:48 AM
We have heard reports that she has lost a kidney; we don't know if those are accurate but we are concerned about that. There has been intestinal damage, part of the intestines, we understand, have been removed

See, we have two kidneys. Getting shot in one isn't immediately fatal. We also have quite a few feet of total intestine. People live with sections removed all the time. Getting shot there isn't immediately fatal, though the sepsis that can result can be over time.

Absent hitting a major blood vessel (abdominal aorta) or the Liver a shot to the belly with immediate aid following will more than likely be survivable.

Weezy
August 13, 2008, 12:45 PM
What about a desert eagle, man? Those things shoot FIFTY CALS!!!! That's like those big*** machine guns on tanks!!

(Actual told to me regarding my .38 :banghead:)

daorhgih
September 17, 2008, 10:34 PM
"
Member. Join Date: 07-13-08. Location: Michigan.

What about a desert eagle, man? Those things shoot FIFTY CALS!!!!
That's like those big*** machine guns on tanks!! "
Yup, I HEAR THAT ALL THE TIME. Plus, EAGLES are clumsy, heavy, and hard to control in recoil. Some of it is jus plain Bovine Scatology (B.S.) and some is true. I own two DEPs, one .50 in 6" and 10", and one .44 mag in 10", and find them about as easy to control as my G21s in +P loads. With proper hearing-protection they are quite a joy to shoot, but expensive to plink with. I shoot with latex examination-gloves to weld my hands to the grip. It is amazing how the gun recoils and reloads itself. With a bit of focused effort you can actually feel the bolt spin and unlock and run backwards. The same thing in reverse as the bolt charges the round and locks in the breech. I take the recoil in my wrists and let my shoulders do their job, too. The 10" bbls can be aimed and shot quite well off-hand, onehanded, if you have good wrists (I am a bass-played) and know about breath control. At 25 yards I regularly place 28 shots (four magazines) in the 4" circles. Don't knock it you don't own it. .50FAN

KiltedClaymore
September 17, 2008, 10:39 PM
all bullets hurt. BAD. lethality just depends on where you get hit. plus, she was shot by military personel(spelling?). they are required to use FMJ bullets, which we all know do minimal damage in the perminant wound cavity department

Loomis
September 17, 2008, 10:48 PM
I heard if you shoot someone in the ponytail with a desert eagle, it snaps their neck!;)

Tribal
September 17, 2008, 10:58 PM
I heard that just shooting near a perp with a deagle will cause their heart to stop.

Question for the masses: if you rechambered a deagle to fire 9mm, would it still be a better handgun than anything else on the market or would it be the best handgun on the market?

KiltedClaymore
September 17, 2008, 11:01 PM
Question for the masses: if you rechambered a deagle to fire 9mm, would it still be a better handgun than anything else on the market or would it be the best handgun on the market?

naw, just the heaviest :D :evil:

cliffy
September 17, 2008, 11:05 PM
Shot twice by a 9mm bullet does exactly the samething as if shot by a .45 ACP, just that the wounds are smaller and not as messy. cliffy

tigre
September 17, 2008, 11:12 PM
Man, you can't use a .45 in a situation like that! It'll kill everyone within five feet of the bullet's path! Is that what you want, you maniac?!

SoCalShooter
September 17, 2008, 11:34 PM
she allegedly grabbed a US Army Warrant Officer's M-4 Carbine and opened fire as a team of FBI agents, US Army officers

You see this is the part I have a problem with. does this seem interesting to anyone else?

KiltedClaymore
September 17, 2008, 11:37 PM
indeed. any clue as to why he was in arms reach? or that she wasn't wearing wrist cuffs, ankle bracelets, and a waist chain?

Jdude
September 17, 2008, 11:59 PM
shoulda used a 177 air rifle. Cause 177 is bigger than 9+45.It's like three times more powerful than a .50 cause 50x3 is almost 177.

Sommerled
September 18, 2008, 12:04 AM
In Iraq ,summer 2006, a young Lt. leading his squad on a patrol heard small arms fire around the corner and behind the wall that was ahead of them. He ordered his men to wait while he went around the corner to investigate. When he turned the corner he found himself less than five feet from the muzzle of a 9mm berreta pointed at his face by an insurgent. The Iraqi fired immediately as he had heard the officer coming. To the insurgent's amazement and shock the officer did not go down. After initially stepping back at the shot, the officer brought back up his rifle about the same time his men came running at the sound of fire and covered the insurgent. The insurgent was so mesmerized by an American absorbing a head shot he didn't get a second shot off before being apprehended.

The NCO with the officer went over to check on him. The officer told him he felt a little woozy from the muzzle blast but told him the Iraqi must have missed. The NCO noting that there was blood on the Lt's lips insisted he go to the hospital and get checked out. Smart NCO.

I, Sommerled, did not personnaly see this Lt, but I did review his radiographs and surgeon's report.

He was shot by an american ball 9mm round the insurgent had gotten hold of. It went through his upper lip. Blew out his two top front teeth while leaving most of the roots. The bullet, quite deformed, finally lodged in the soft tissue behind his epiglottis less than an inch from his cervical spine. He was seen by an oral surgeon aquaintance of mine who said the bullet was easily removed as it had neatly avoided any major blood vessels. Apparently the Lt. was pretty pissed off that he lost his front teeth as he said he'd,"never even had a cavity". There was much speculation if it was a "dud" or underpowered round, but it was undoubtably an american military round as the gun and mag were recovered and investigated. It would seem incredible that the Lt's teeth could have slowed the bullet down that much. But sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

At any rate, it was not his time to die.

Sommerled

CliffH
September 18, 2008, 12:29 AM
Got a nephew who's a nurse in a local hospital. A few days ago a young lady (?) was brought in with a gunshot wound.

Seems she's a member of a local gang and was shot in the buttocks with a 9mm by a rival gang member in a "walk-by" shooting.

He described the wound as a through and through about the size of a pencil.

A .45 would probably have taken off both sides....

MD_Willington
September 18, 2008, 01:07 AM
if it was a "walk by" the perp should have used a $9 machette or a $15 sledge hammer... either way both of those would beat 9x19 or .45 ACP in that case, and would have been a hell of a lot messier..


Nuke em from orbit!

MJRW
September 18, 2008, 01:13 AM
I heard if you even just think about what it is like to get shot by a "deagle," you die from hydrosomatic shock.

jackdanson
September 18, 2008, 01:26 AM
I heard if you even just think about what it is like to get shot by a "deagle," you die from hydrosomatic shock.

You are full of it, I'm thinking of that right nowaiopaatytyuuuu..............

Jorg Nysgerrig
September 18, 2008, 01:53 AM
Huh, that's weird. 9mm slugs usually just bounce off people and land harmlessly on the ground. I think there must be more to this story...

offshorebear
September 18, 2008, 02:04 AM
Was she shot by a FMJ 9mm? Its army right?

Tarvis
September 18, 2008, 03:16 AM
What is the survival rate of a pistol wound, something like 85%? Anyone else heard that?

For the record, most of the desert eagle comments were tongue in cheek, no need for name calling ;).

Armueller2001
September 18, 2008, 03:23 AM
Was she shot by a FMJ 9mm? Its army right?

I was wondering this as well.

CajunBass
September 18, 2008, 08:06 AM
It sounds painful

I got a buddy who got mugged one night and took a 22 round in the arm. He said that HURT! I imagine a couple of 9mm's in the gut would too. :D

Shoot, if Tom Hanks had been using a 50 cal Desert Eagle, he could have stopped a Panzer division in that movie. 45's are only good for one tank at a time. ;)

deaconkharma
September 18, 2008, 08:55 AM
Weapon retention in presence of a terrorist, bad guy whatever. Not having them cuffed another bad idea. I would like more details on this and as to how exactly this person obtained the firearm. Wish I hadn't had to sift through the caliber war posts though ;)
Lost a kidney? Lucky she didn't have the renal artery tapped. Very lucky... I'm betting between the bullets and surgery she's more subdued now.

Gun Wielding Maniac
September 18, 2008, 09:16 AM
"Officer Stacy Lim

After a softball game and a stop-over at the Northeast Station to check her work assignment, Officer Stacy Lim arrived home in Canyon Country at about 1 a.m., Saturday, June 9, 1990. She didnít know that the car behind her had followed her from Los Angeles, or that it carried four hardcore gang members, intent on stealing her truck. One of the young bandits was armed with a .357-Magnum revolver. Now, because she believed that she had been followed for some unknown reason, she carried her 9-millimeter service weapon in her hand. When she saw the large pistol in the hand of the advancing figure, she was ready to defend herself.

Officer Lim did a humane thing Ė instead of immediately firing at the shadowy figure with a gun, she purposely advised him that she was a police officer. From a distance of about 5 feet, the young gunman, without warning, responded to Officer Limís unselfish act by firing his weapon directly into her chest. The bullet ravaged her upper body when it nicked the lower portion of her heart, damaged her liver, destroyed her spleen, and exited through the center of her back, still with enough energy to penetrate her vehicle door, where it was later found. Critically wounded, the officer brought up her weapon and fired one round which struck her assailant. He then turned and ran, but the officer followed him and fired three more rounds, which hit and fatally wounded the gunman. He had fired all six of his bullets at Officer Lim, who now returned to the front of her vehicle to fight off any further attackers, unaware that the others had driven away in panic. They were all taken into custody the same day.

Now realizing her danger from her massive wound, she tried to reach her doorway, but collapsed. Her roommates, alerted by the shooting, found her and called for medical aid. The officer had already lost so much blood, that that alone made her condition critical.

Police and Medical personnel at the scene estimated that she had no chance for recovery, and doctors at the hospital gave her only an hour to live. Her family was summoned.

However, she refused to die and survived three full cardiac arrests. By responding to a 90-minute heart massage, she showed her will to live. Her sense of duty and personal courage were equaled only by her reverence for the life of another, because she had placed herself at dire risk by giving a warning to an armed attacker. She had given him an opportunity to surrender and live. Her action upheld the highest traditions of the Los Angeles Police Department and is hereby recognized by awarding her with the Medal of Valor."

Phil DeGraves
September 18, 2008, 09:26 AM
...she refused to die and survived three full cardiac arrests. By responding to a 90-minute heart massage, she showed her will to live.

Also contributing to her survival was that she was extremely physically fit.

one-shot-one
September 18, 2008, 02:27 PM
no reflection on her but if it was me, i would trade that verbal warning & medal of honor to have my liver & spleen back.....:banghead:

loneviking
September 20, 2008, 02:03 AM
Remember other factors too:

Guys are bigger with heavier bones and muscles than the girls.

Girls run on estrogen, and when hurt want to curl up and protect themselves or run to get away. That's the way most girls are wired.

Guys run on testosterone---and some of us become enraged when pain is inflicted on us and we don't run, we attack.

If you go here, my story of taking a 9mm Makarov round is up:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=393304

If a BG had been the one who shot me, I can guarantee you that he would have had one very pissed off human being all over him.

Sunray
September 20, 2008, 03:12 AM
The blessed .45ACP man-stopper is no more a 100% reliable man-stopper than a brick. No pistol cartridge is 100% reliable with one shot.
"...Remember other factors too:..." Rubbish. You don't know many women do you? Pass an 8 pound watermelon through your bung hole sometime.

conw
September 20, 2008, 03:14 AM
Girls run on estrogen, and when hurt want to curl up and protect themselves or run to get away. That's the way most girls are wired.

Guys run on testosterone---and some of us become enraged when pain is inflicted on us and we don't run, we attack.

Girls have T also. And plenty of guys at this point have very low T. T is a good thing, but let's not oversimplify. We "run on" plenty more hormones than just T or E, especially when we are in a dire situation.

But to keep with your theme: I don't know about you, but I'd rather face off with most guys than with a well-trained woman who felt her kid was in danger.

loneviking
September 20, 2008, 05:29 AM
"...Remember other factors too:..." Rubbish. You don't know many women do you? Pass an 8 pound watermelon through your bung hole sometime.

Married 28 years and I've raised two daughters, plus all their girlfriends they've dragged home over the years. Since you seem to know it all, how many daughters do you have?

Blakenzy
September 20, 2008, 06:01 AM
He was shot by an american ball 9mm round the insurgent had gotten hold of. It went through his upper lip. Blew out his two top front teeth while leaving most of the roots. The bullet, quite deformed, finally lodged in the soft tissue behind his epiglottis less than an inch from his cervical spine. He was seen by an oral surgeon aquaintance of mine who said the bullet was easily removed as it had neatly avoided any major blood vessels. Apparently the Lt. was pretty pissed off that he lost his front teeth as he said he'd,"never even had a cavity". There was much speculation if it was a "dud" or underpowered round, but it was undoubtably an american military round as the gun and mag were recovered and investigated. It would seem incredible that the Lt's teeth could have slowed the bullet down that much. But sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

That's not a testimony against 9mms, it's a testimony for American dental care... and some people wonder why there's fluorine in the water: "to stop the bullets ma'am":D

feedthehogs
September 20, 2008, 11:12 AM
Girls run on estrogen, and when hurt want to curl up and protect themselves or run to get away

Having lived in 5 states in my lifetime, I have found just the opposite to be true. Including my wife and both my daughters giving birth without any pain medication.

Son-law is a firefighter/EMT and according to him, guys whine pretty consistantly when hurt. Much more than women.

But then again I don't need to shoot myself in the groin to prove my resolve.

loneviking
September 20, 2008, 11:54 AM
Having lived in 5 states in my lifetime, I have found just the opposite to be true. Including my wife and both my daughters giving birth without any pain medication.

Son-law is a firefighter/EMT and according to him, guys whine pretty consistantly when hurt. Much more than women.

But then again I don't need to shoot myself in the groin to prove my resolve.


Thanks for the cheap shot. I didn't say women felt more or less pain, only that their response, under stress, is different. I'll just bow out and let you carry on your fantasy thread that a guy is going to respond to a 9mm round just like a small boned woman would. After 25 years treating pts'. in ER's and ICU's, I haven't found that to be true.

jonmerritt
September 20, 2008, 12:04 PM
Hey, a 9mm round hurts. Thats is all there is to it!

graygun
September 20, 2008, 12:30 PM
"...barely more powerful than a tazer"...says poster #4...and w/o humor...that's outrageous...

I've seen a badly ill dog instantly dropped by a .22 LR. Many,many people have been killed by .22s ;I'll take the tazing rather than a 9mm hit.

I know 115 gr WWB has plenty of penetrating power and know that is one of the "problems" of that "less than .45 cal" round. Obviously, shot placement is more critical with a .35 FMJ round.

Eyesac
September 20, 2008, 12:46 PM
Weapon retention in presence of a terrorist
after she allegedly grabbed a US Army Warrant Officer's M-4 Carbine

Yeah no kidding, got a hold of an M4 and started firing? Cheebis what a mistake for that officer, pretty embarrassing! Maybe it was all part of their master plan... Make it real easy to grab and then they get to cut her down! J/K

KiltedClaymore
September 20, 2008, 01:05 PM
I didn't say women felt more or less pain, only that their response, under stress, is different

you've never had a girl under stress (or extreme anger) hit you, have you? an ex-girlfriend of mine popped me in the face for scaring the bejesus out of her one night. long story cut down to the basics: i went over to her house really late at night without telling her i was dropping by. thought i'd have some fun, so i snuck over to her bedroom window (she was always leaving it open/cracked for some reason) and scratched on the screen. since i was crouched below the window sill, she couldnt see who/what was making the noise. so, after about 3 times of me scratching, she got nervous and came over to the window to check it out. when she got close enough, i jumped up and expected to watch her jump/scream (i wasnt trying to be intentionaly mean, just messing around). before i could even finish yelling "BOO!", she punched strait thru that window screen and broke my nose like Jack Dempsey.

I'll take the tazing rather than a 9mm hit

never been hit with a 9mm, but i have been shot with an air tazer. they both hurt, although the 9mm will kill you more often than a tazer. no matter what, tazers still suck to get shot with.

conw
September 20, 2008, 08:41 PM
"...barely more powerful than a tazer"...says poster #4...and w/o humor...that's outrageous...


Humor, my friend, does not "exist," but "happens." ;)

Area 52
October 3, 2008, 07:37 PM
I thought it was meant to be a joke when I read the comment in question (number 4).

nplant
October 3, 2008, 07:47 PM
"It is the nature of the structure injured, and not the nature of the bullet, that causes the incapacitation."
-Vincent DiMaio, M.D., from Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques

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