[twoblink]

I've been chatting with a few friends (female) and their general concensis is that, they could care less about RKBA, the 2nd Amendment etc.. To quote one of them:

"I just don't want to get mugged or raped. If a gun helps me do that, so be it, the politics I could care less about."

While I've been trying to convince her that is exactly what we are talking about, RKBA means the right to defend yourself and not waiting for the boyz in blue to draw a chalk outline of you, she doesn't see it that way. "It's all in the presentation" she tells me.. and she might be right..

So next time I talk to a woman about guns, I will call it what it is, a tool, that, when used correctly, can ward off rape and muggings. I've found very high acceptance to that, vs. telling them things like "I think we should be allowed to own AK's.." etc..

Just a thought.. and a suggestion for people to try..

[Baba Louie]

"I just don't want to get mugged or raped. If a gun helps me do that, so be it, the politics I could care less about."

Fine and dandy. All I/we want is for everyone, female and male, young and old to have that ability.

Some people are only concerned with themselves and while that may be a little self centered, when it comes to self defense, the self comes first.

All I would ask, is that should "she" ever need to defend herself, "she", all of them, have the means to do so. That's the politics part of it. The flip side of the coin. If its good for her, its good for all. When the local, state or Fed gov't feels it wise to take away that ability, I'd hope that someone stand up to them and fight the good fight.

For the Children ;)

Adios

[Graystar]

This is very much like the points I continually harp on this board. the RKBA is actually a narrowly tailored right, and is a part of a set of rights:

Right to self-defense
Right to possess a firearm for self-defense
Right to keep and bear arms for defense of state

We have a right to self-defense because we are alive. That’s pretty basic and applies to all living beings. That is a natural right.

We have a right to possess a firearm for self-defense because it is the best form of self-defense available. It provides a means of self-defense to every person on the planet regardless of size and stature, and regardless of whether you live on a deserted island or as part of a society. This is a fundamental right.

We have a right to keep and bear arms. This right is an extension of our right to possess firearms for self-defense. It means that, as a society, we can come together and fight side by side to meet the enemy. This is a societal right, as it has no meaning on an individual basis. Also, such a right is also part obligation. That is why the Founding Fathers considered language in the 2nd Amendment to the effect of people having to find a replacement for themselves if they had a religious objection to fighting. That language was ultimately rejected as unnecessary, but the underlying concept of obligation still exists. That is why a draft can be legal.

Another point I've been harping is to forget about the RKBA!! It's not that important at the moment. For now we need to concentrate on the right to possess firearms for self-defense.

I believe that the reason our rights have erroded is because people were trying to use the RKBA to protect their right to possess a firearm for personal defense. Even though people here don't seem to want to acknowledge a difference between these rights, is very clear that the courts have. In Miller and Silveira, the courts rejected the RKBA as a right to possess firearms for person protection. However, the same court that rejected Silveira *defended* the right of a *felon* to posess a shotgun for self-defense! (USA v GOMEZ 1996)

As you friend expressed, I think most people are concerned only with the right to possess a firearm for self-defense. That is how we should start looking that it. As you found, I think that we can go much further in getting our point across with this approach.

[BigG]

I believe in the 80/20 rule. In any organization, endeavor, society in general - 20% carry the load and 80% do nothing. I believe this question will finally be settled at gunpoint and intend to be part of the 20% if it happens during my lifetime.

The political solutions are pretty much played out, unless my crystal ball is defective.

To quote one of my favs, John Wayne, "Whadda ya want me to do? Spell it out? Draw ya a picture?" :evil:

[Giant]

Protect your life with what? Self defense with what? Without a firearm there is no reasonable way for a person to defend their life, the life of those around them in the community. Without RKBA there is nothing except death and destruction at the hands of those who would kill and destroy anyone to get whatever law abiding citizens have. End of discussion!

Giant

[Raistlin]

By Giant:


Protect your life with what? Self defense with what? Without a firearm there is no reasonable way for a person to defend their life, the life of those around them in the community. Without RKBA there is nothing except death and destruction at the hands of those who would kill and destroy anyone to get whatever law abiding citizens have. End of discussion!


You are correct, but you have to remember, many of the folks like twoblink speaks of are often fence-sitting on the whole keep-and-bear-arms thing, if they even consider it at all. You have to make it personal for them; i.e., someone might not understand why she should be able to buy an AR-15, but she can comprehend a .38 special in her purse.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[twoblink]

Absolutely..

A friend of mine; her mother got a divorce (abusive husband) and went out and got herself an even worse boyfriend. When she tried to break up with him, death threats etc.. occurred..

She went to the police, who told her "sorry lady, but we can't have a cop sitting in front of your house 24/7" and so she went and took a class, and got herself a 38Spl.

Now she sees the value of handgun to save her life, but she still doesn't see how that translates to wanting to be able to own an AK that is full automatic..

Remember, people are selfish creatures, mostly concerned with... yes.. one's self..

[Standing Wolf]

"I just don't want to get mugged or raped. If a gun helps me do that, so be it, the politics I could care less about."

First we pull the arrow out; then we find out who fired it.

Wanting not to be mugged and/or raped and/or murdered is a good start.