So, how many "assault weapons" are out there?


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jlbraun
August 14, 2008, 12:33 AM
I'd like closer to real numbers. The BATFE posts numbers of rifles from manufacturers each year, and I know that some mfrs. only make "assault weapons", but they don't break them down by type. Anyone have a different and better way of counting? For this discussion, military style semi-auto rifles only.

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sweetbeard
August 14, 2008, 12:37 AM
17 no wait 18?

NG VI
August 14, 2008, 12:39 AM
At least this many (stretches arms)

Pat-inCO
August 14, 2008, 12:46 AM
I think there are at least nine.

- Billary has one
- Slick Willie has one
- Ted Kennedy has two (one for his car)
- Sarah Brady has three (so she can remember where she put them)
- Wash DC Mayor has two (one for each car)

There is a rumor that there are several illegal ones in ********** at the Democratic HQ.

hankdatank1362
August 14, 2008, 12:48 AM
A metric poop-ton.

evan price
August 14, 2008, 01:16 AM
Does that include only actual select fire rifles classified as assault rifles, or does it include civilian semiautomatic-only rifles that look like assault rifles but aren't, and do you define assault rifle as any intermediate caliber rifle such as 7.62x39 but not to include 7.62x51, or do you include .308's? And do you include civilian-only carbines such as the KelTech Sub-2000 and Hipoint 995? What about the M1 Carbine? Ruger SR9 and SR40? Mini-14 and Mini-30 or just the AC556?? Are you including everything in the HR1022 list as an assault rifle? Please be more specific about your criteria!

mnrivrat
August 14, 2008, 01:46 AM
ZERO ---- Weapons do not assault .

That said, one would have to know what to include in the count and the term is used rather loosely these days. The original definition is somewhat a short rifle, high capacity magazine, full auto capability. This does not include much of anything that the previous so called assualt weapon ban had on the list, as most (if not all)of them were semi-auto .

If you want to use the term , it generaly is now used for many semi-auto military style (and remotely looking like militarty style) guns. Using that criteria there are a bunch ,but I have no way of knowing how many, and can't think of a good reference to use. One would have to peace meal the numbers together from a lot of different sources to come close.

Piraticalbob
August 14, 2008, 04:03 AM
I'm not interested in validating our enemies by using their false terminologies.

230RN
August 14, 2008, 06:55 AM
I have an M1 Carbine. How you count it depends on where you live.

Evan Price' and mnrivrat's remarks indicated that it was not a very clear question, and sometimes in these cases it works better to "work backwards" from the initial premise... in other words, what do you want to do with the information? This would help clarify some avenues of pursuit to an answer. Posts 2,3,4, and 5 also suggest that the question is not posed very well, though the answers were chuckleworthy.

To put it still another way, where are you going with this?

I am also in total agreement with Piraticalbob's remark. (Thank you!)

Bill2e
August 14, 2008, 08:14 AM
NONE, by definition an "assult weapon" has Automatic fire cababilities, and they have not been made since 1986 for the civilian market.

Kino74
August 14, 2008, 08:45 AM
NONE, by definition an "assult weapon" has Automatic fire cababilities, and they have not been made since 1986 for the civilian market

Not quite true. Josh Sugarmann is credited with the "assault weapon" nomenclature given to military style semi auto firearms. He believed there would be "confusion" amongst the public as to what a AWB is and he was dead to rights on that one unfortunately.

Assault Weapons are not used by the military. Those are "machine guns" among other NFA firearms. AWs are semi auto.

As for numbers, I believed the last figure on the number of gunoweners affected aby the AWB numbered north of 3 million and that was back in 1994. SO at least 3 million by now I would not be surprised if the number broke 10 million.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 14, 2008, 09:04 AM
"Assault Weapons" don't exists.

The M16 fully automatic and later M16A2 burst fire rifles is a RIFLE according to US Army. Maybe you could call it an "assault rifle" but not an "assault weapon".

Assault Weapon or more accurately EBR (Evil Black Rifle) is Brady invention.

Don't play there game.

jlbraun
August 14, 2008, 09:31 AM
Ahem. Given the "common use" argument, it's definitively relevant to ask how many assault weapons are in "common use" - because SCOTUS said that you can't ban common use firearms.

Some real answers, please?

streakr
August 14, 2008, 10:30 AM
I once hit an assailant with a 2x2. Does that make it an "assault weapon"? BTW he had a knife that's MINE now!

streakr

Drgong
August 14, 2008, 10:34 AM
Sport utility rifles that resemble miltary arms but fire semi-automaticly is in the tens of millions. From what I understand, there are 250,000 AR-15 type rifles produced each year, and that does not include AKs, FALs, and other types.

NG VI
August 14, 2008, 10:40 AM
As for numbers, I believed the last figure on the number of gunoweners affected aby the AWB numbered north of 3 million and that was back in 1994. SO at least 3 million by now I would not be surprised if the number broke 10 million.


I think there are far more than ten million sport utility rifles in country.

slow944
August 14, 2008, 10:47 AM
You don't "have a need to Know".

Kino74
August 14, 2008, 10:59 AM
I think there are far more than ten million sport utility rifles in country.

I think you may be right. Perhaps a better question is whether or not owners of military sytle weapons rival hunters in sheer numbers. Hunters are said to be anywhere from a low of 9 to a high of 14 million gunowners so if 3 million gunowners were "assault weapons" back in the 90s and we know a good 250,000 AR15s are sold each year (unknown AR15s built) it is quite feasible that Hunters are outnumbered by "Assault Weapons" owners.

Ahem. Given the "common use" argument, it's definitively relevant to ask how many assault weapons are in "common use" - because SCOTUS said that you can't ban common use firearms.

Some real answers, please?

Miller said a sawed off shotgun was not a militia weapon with the reasoning that mutilated weapons are not common military arms .

"In Common use" SHOULD refer to 'normal' firearms and not mutilated or improvised weapons. We can't link "in common use" to number of weapons in
circulation because if we did then we set up ourselves up for severe restrictions. The only guns we could own would be the only types produced now which would make it too easy to install another NFA-type ban. For instance, the AR15 may be saved BUT the next gen rifles may be banned.

We need "common use" to be defined as "weapon of the day."

Tommygunn
August 14, 2008, 11:00 AM
NONE, by definition an "assult weapon" has Automatic fire cababilities, and they have not been made since 1986 for the civilian market

Not quite true. Josh Sugarmann is credited with the "assault weapon" nomenclature given to military style semi auto firearms. He believed there would be "confusion" amongst the public as to what a AWB is and he was dead to rights on that one unfortunately.

Assault Weapons are not used by the military. Those are "machine guns" among other NFA firearms. AWs are semi auto.

The Dept. of Defense defines "assault weapon" (AKA "assault rifle") as a select fire weapon firng an intermediate power cartridge.
Josh Sugarman may be using it to deceive the public, but the term has been legitimized by our own government.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 14, 2008, 11:01 AM
Ahem. Given the "common use" argument, it's definitively relevant to ask how many assault weapons are in "common use" - because SCOTUS said that you can't ban common use firearms.

I understand where you are coming from but don't use the term "assault weapon".

How many "semi automatic rifles are out there"? Serves the same purpose. Actually it is more useful because there are many semi-auto hunting rifles that don't look like an EBR.

Weapons should be classified by the functionality not their looks.

If I made a muzzle loader that looks like an AR-15 is it a so called "assault weapon" or a muzzle loader? Of course it is a muzzle loader.

Functionality is what matters not looks.
I don't have any hard numbers but I would imagine if you count all semi-auto magazine fed rifles the number is in the 10mil-20mil range.

If you fall for the ploy of classifying weapons by looks you open up new avenues of attack.

Bullpup rifles are relatively uncommon so are colored weapons (i.e. pink glock). Shotguns with pistol grips are much less common than shotguns with traditional stock. EBR with flat top rail system are less common.

You can win the battle and lose the war. Any new weapon design that looks differently is defacto "not in common usage" hence it is banned, hence it never becomes common usage.

Change the questions to
"So, how many semi-auto rifles are out there?" and you get same info without a anti-gun talking point.

Weezy
August 14, 2008, 11:05 AM
I think my 10/22 is considered an "Assault Weapon" or "Machine Gun" depending on what crackpot you let define your glossary. The only weapon I've ever committed assault with, though, is thoroughly connected to my wrist.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 14, 2008, 11:11 AM
The Dept. of Defense defines "assault weapon" (AKA "assault rifle") as a select fire weapon firng an intermediate power cartridge.
Josh Sugarman may be using it to deceive the public, but the term has been legitimized by our own government.

Have a cite.

I have been 12 years in the Army and never seen a single document about an "assault weapon". The Army uses the term rifle. All rifles (with exception of sniper weapons) are select fire, magazine fed weapons.

U.S. ARMY TM 9-1005-319-10
CHANGE No 3.

HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
No. 3 Washington D.C., 1 May 1994

Operator’s Manual W/COMPONENTS LIST
RIFLE, 5.56-MM, M16A2 W/E (1005-01-128-9936)
AND
CARBINE, 5.56-MM, M4 W/E, (1005-01-231-0973)

TM 9-1005-319-10, August 1986, is changed to add M4A1 Carbine to this TM.

"The M16A2 rifle system consists of a rifle, a magazine, and a sling. It is a lightweight, gasoperated, air-cooled, magazine-fed, shoulder-fired weapon that can be fired either in automatic three-round bursts or semiautomatic single shots."

Tommygunn
August 14, 2008, 11:26 AM
I didn't say "army," I said Dept. of Defense. AFAIK it's not even a formal definition.
The Navy is also under the "Dept. of Defense," but AFAIK it may have yet another definition for the weapons it uses.

FourTeeFive
August 14, 2008, 11:29 AM
According to a few news articles I recently read, if LE agencies own them then they are "military style semi-auto rifles".

If you are I own them then they are assault rifles. So evidently civilians use them for assault, and law enforcement uses them for military style "enforcement"?

:what:

Flame Red
August 14, 2008, 11:31 AM
Not enough.

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 14, 2008, 11:31 AM
I once hit an assailant with a 2x2. Does that make it an "assault weapon"? BTW he had a knife that's MINE now!

Well it depends Did it have 2 or more of the following features? :D


Did it have a timber shroud to prevent splinters?
Did you carve a pistol grip into it?
Could you attach a bayonet to the front?
Was it capable of launching or firing 2x2 grenades?
Was it capable of folding (maybe an illegally installed hinge)?
Was it equipped with a sawdust suppressor or did it have a threaded end to accommodate one?

.cheese.
August 14, 2008, 11:32 AM
Depends on your definition of "assault weapons".

It's a trivial name, so it varies.

pistolero6869
August 14, 2008, 11:36 AM
Sorry But if I told you Id have to kill you! LOL

Happiness Is A Warm Gun
August 14, 2008, 11:37 AM
I didn't say "army," I said Dept. of Defense. AFAIK it's not even a formal definition.
The Navy is also under the "Dept. of Defense," but AFAIK it may have yet another definition for the weapons it uses.

I don't think even the DOD used the term "assault weapon".

Maybe at one time the term "assault rifle" informally to describe a class of weapons that acted as a bridge between semi-auto rifles and machineguns.

Today with all rifles being select-fire the term doesn't even have any meaning. However "assault weapons" are not even select fire they are semi-auto. The DOD would never have used "assault rifles" to describe a semi-auto rifle as semi-auto rifles had been around for 60 years.

"Assault weapon" was coined by the Brady campaign as part of the Federal AWB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

The whole point was to mislead and scare people.

Ask 100 people the two questions
"Are you in favor of banning semi-auto hunting rifles?"
and
"Are you in favor of banning ASSAULT rifles?"

Which do you think has more support?

FourTeeFive
August 14, 2008, 11:37 AM
How about an assault hammer, or "nailgun":

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/19/120727291_aceffc538c.jpg

DrewH
August 14, 2008, 11:51 AM
Assault rifle is a formal, well defined, military term. Assault weapon is different, fairly open ended term, that includes more than rifles, and is pretty much defined by the antis.

FWIW jlbraun clearly defined what he meant by assault weapon in the original post.

Sorry, I can't think of a better way to count them than through manufacturing figures.

When California passed its original AW ban in 1989 they estimated there were 300,000 estimated firearms covered. When NJ passed its version a couple of years, they estimated there were 300,000 firearms covered, despite the major population differences.

What I got out of that was that no-one really knows how many "assault weapons" are out there.

230RN
August 14, 2008, 11:59 AM
Given the "common use" argument, it's definitively relevant to ask how many assault weapons are in "common use" - because SCOTUS said that you can't ban common use firearms.

OK, thanks, jlbraun. That gives a little direction to the question... as you can see by the somewhat less frivolous answers later on. I thought maybe my mind-reading brain cells were broken.

jonmerritt
August 15, 2008, 07:53 PM
My wifes 10/22 ruger was refered to as an assault weapon by a neighbor, they were miss informed (Lied to). We explained the differances of so called assault weapons, and they are not so nervous about us and all our assault weapons. Don't tell them everything though.

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